What are your thoughts on the Ian Wright/Patrick O'Brien situation?

Tombo2001 · 04-02-2021 10:07pm

silverharp wrote: »

on the scale of things I'd rate a serial bike thief worse than what I will call a mistake this lad made. I dont get the whole puritan head on a stick attitude though, its just a classic manufactured outrage story and people are playing their parts.

Ive had a series of bikes stolen off me, and I would see this as far far worse.

But thats just my opinion, as a white Irish person who has no real idea what racism feels like.

Tombo2001 · 04-02-2021 10:11pm

Fran has a bone wrote: »

I've always liked Ian, I have his autobiography from years ago. What the kid sent him was horrible.

I don't get the complaints about the sentencing from people though. The sentence needs to be taken in the context of the Irish legal system, and it isn't any surprise. Far worse crimes are committed and get similar sentences on a daily basis.Remember the acid attack that wasn't even brought to court?

That is true - and there are thousands of victims of crime in Ireland, and their families, who feel the same way about Irish justice that Ian Wright does about the sentence.

I'm glad he has called it out publicly, even though he probably doesnt realise what it is that he's calling out.

I will never forget the shock when a local kid was killed in a hit and run, and the driver got a suspended sentence.

Annasopra · 04-02-2021 10:35pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That is true - and there are thousands of victims of crime in Ireland, and their families, who feel the same way about Irish justice that Ian Wright does about the sentence.

I'm glad he has called it out publicly, even though he probably doesnt realise what it is that he's calling out.

I will never forget the shock when a local kid was killed in a hit and run, and the driver got a suspended sentence.

I think he does realise.

“My forgiveness of this young man was for my own deeply personal need and desire to move forward without further anguish,”

“I’m a 57-year-old man who has experienced racism throughout my life. I wasn’t expecting my forgiveness to be an invitation to lighten a sentence. Seeing this judgement, I can only wonder what deterrent there is for anyone else who spouts this kind of vile racist abuse.

“An individual wished death upon me because of my skin colour. No judge’s claims of ‘naivety’ or ‘immaturity’ will ever be acceptable to us. The supposed immaturity and naivety of our attackers is never any comfort.

“So yeah, I am disappointed. I’m tired. We are all tired.”

inforfun · 04-02-2021 10:51pm

Not just for the racism but add the covid threat, no matter how unlikely he would be able to do so, and for me there is enough to lock up the guy a bit.
Also the judge's remarks of not wanting to ruin the guy's future..... He doesnt need the judge for that, he was able to do so himself just fine.

Mysterypunter · 05-02-2021 3:40am

I read in a report, that the idiot abused Ian Wright because he was playing a computer game and his virtual Ian Wright played badly? I don't know if this means his computer player missed a few chances, if it does this clown must have **** for brains, sawdust in the head, does that mean the equivalent of me playing Brian Lara cricket on the PlayStation, and playing as Brian Lara, and getting out for 0 against England, calling him a dark coloured waster, but in real life, Lara is getting 400 against England? Was it really because his PlayStation Ian Wright was rubbish? What a bizzare excuse, on top of a racist, how is this **** in 3rd level education?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 05-02-2021 5:51am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Read up a bit there, with convictions it’s hard as google argue public interest. This lad wasn’t convicted so will be able to have his name removed. He’s off scot free.

Oh okay, I thought he did get a conviction but just with a lenient sentence. Yeah, he’ll be able to get his google mentions wiped so. In that case, that’s pretty annoying. I was thinking that those with criminal convictions wouldn’t find it so easy. I remember when I filled in the form, it was made clear that they would assess whether it would be removed. It was for my case because it was nothing criminal.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 9:40am

JJayoo wrote: »

Well he's fcuked now, any search of his name will link back to this incident so it will follow him for the rest of his life.

I hope poor Ian will finally be able to sleep at night.

Unless he fills out an incredibly simple online form and Google removes them. He got no punishment.

BPKS · 05-02-2021 10:17am

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I read in a report, that the idiot abused Ian Wright because he was playing a computer game and his virtual Ian Wright played badly? I don't know if this means his computer player missed a few chances, if it does this clown must have **** for brains, sawdust in the head, does that mean the equivalent of me playing Brian Lara cricket on the PlayStation, and playing as Brian Lara, and getting out for 0 against England, calling him a dark coloured waster, but in real life, Lara is getting 400 against England? Was it really because his PlayStation Ian Wright was rubbish? What a bizzare excuse, on top of a racist, how is this **** in 3rd level education?

It was in the early hours of the morning. The lad was probably p1ssed. Not an excuse but we've all done stupid things when p1ssed. This gobsh1te should keep his phone away from him after a few drinks too many.

partyguinness · 05-02-2021 10:46am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yeah. I agree. I think 1 months prison for this would be perfectly reasonable.

That was never going to happen. Not in a million years.

I know the District Court and I know exactly how the Judge looked at it. While not everyone agrees of course but it was a consistent result.

In fact I would go further and say that the Judge took responsibility- he quite easily could have just kicked it to touch with the easy option i.e. convicted and 1 month in jail but we all know (well those of us familiar with such matter) that it would have gone striaght to the Circuit Court on appeal. Further taking up time and expense and all just to satisfy the mob.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 10:47am

nullzero wrote: »

My points don't make sense?

Do you believe some stupid kid making racist remarks should be locked up before the scores of violent offenders who receive suspended sentences from our judicial system?

I never minimized the issue in any way. I stated that what happened was wrong but not as serious as other cases brought before the courts in Ireland.

It's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about in relation to sentencing. There are plenty of cases where more substantive threats are made to people in person where the defendants walk away with a Slap on the wrist or less.

If you had the first notion of how the Irish legal system works you would know why I said expecting the young man in question to receive a custodial sentence is demonstrably unrealistic.

Does he morally deserve to be locked up? Yes.
Are there more egregious cases before the courts that are more deserving of custodial sentences that also see the defendants walking away to walk our streets? Definitely.
That's why locking him up is a nett loss to the Irish taxpayer, we simply get more value for locking up those more deserving of being locked up.

That's the perspective you need to consider.

How much would a criminal conviction and the €500 fine have cost the taxpayer? As it stands the only punishment he got was handing over pocket money.

Nozebleed · 05-02-2021 10:50am

back in late 90's ian wright accused peter schmeichel of racism..a claim that had no foundation. a clear attempt to destroy the career and life of a player in his prime. without any evidence or truth.

wright is nothing more than a modern day race baiter.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 10:54am

Nozebleed wrote: »

back in late 90's ian wright accused peter schmeichel of racism..a claim that had no foundation. a clear attempt to destroy the career and life of a player in his prime. without any evidence or truth.

wright is nothing more than a modern day race baiter.

That didn’t happen though, did it??

Peter Schmeichel will not face charges of racism resulting from allegations made after his confrontation with Arsenal's Ian Wright late last year.

Television pictures appeared to show Schmeichel mouthing insults at Wright during Manchester United's 1-0 victory over Arsenal at Old Trafford on 16 November.

Ian Wright: "I am happy to comply with the wishes of the FA and would add that, despite being approached three times by the CPS to make a statement or complaint based on video evidence, I have not done so for the benefit of football and everybody concerned with our national game."

partyguinness · 05-02-2021 10:56am

Nozebleed wrote: »

back in late 90's ian wright accused peter schmeichel of racism..a claim that had no foundation. a clear attempt to destroy the career and life of a player in his prime. without any evidence or truth.

wright is nothing more than a modern day race baiter.

I was no fan of Wright as a player but that is completely irrelevant and an extremely worrying post.

He was subjected to disgusting racial abuse from a complete stranger purely based on the colour of his skin. Period.

Nozebleed · 05-02-2021 10:59am

weldoninhio wrote: »

That didn’t happen though, did it??

Peter Schmeichel will not face charges of racism resulting from allegations made after his confrontation with Arsenal's Ian Wright late last year.

Television pictures appeared to show Schmeichel mouthing insults at Wright during Manchester United's 1-0 victory over Arsenal at Old Trafford on 16 November.

Ian Wright: "I am happy to comply with the wishes of the FA and would add that, despite being approached three times by the CPS to make a statement or complaint based on video evidence, I have not done so for the benefit of football and everybody concerned with our national game."

yeh,because it was a false allegation. he new it had no foundation and had no reason to make a statement to the CPS. he has no credibility whatsoever.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 11:02am

Nozebleed wrote: »

yeh,because it was a false allegation. he new it had no foundation and had no reason to make a statement to the CPS. he has no credibility whatsoever.

He never made the allegation. Someone who seen it on TV did. He was "approached three times by the CPS to make a statement or complaint". :rolleyes:

zimmermania · 05-02-2021 11:04am

partyguinness wrote: »

That was never going to happen. Not in a million years.

I know the District Court and I know exactly how the Judge looked at it. While not everyone agrees of course but it was a consistent result.

In fact I would go further and say that the Judge took responsibility- he quite easily could have just kicked it to touch with the easy option i.e. convicted and 1 month in jail but we all know (well those of us familiar with such matter) that it would have gone striaght to the Circuit Court on appeal. Further taking up time and expense and all just to satisfy the mob.

If you are referring to all those who consider that racist remarks have no place in society a "mob"i find your remarks offensive.

I am also puzzled that you can claim that he would have gone to the circuit court to appeal the 1 month in jail!.How do you know that or are just making an assumption?

If he had the neck to appeal a 1 month sentence (had he received it) i would be hopeful that the sentence would be increased to 3 months which might be more appropriate for the vile remarks directed at another human being and such a sentence might deter others of a like mind to keep their racist remarks to themselves.

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:04am

silverharp wrote: »

on the scale of things I'd rate a serial bike thief worse than what I will call a mistake this lad made. I dont get the whole puritan head on a stick attitude though, its just a classic manufactured outrage story and people are playing their parts.

Id love to hear how all the people demanding blood would feel if their their own teenage kids came out with something like that. Should they go to jail too?
And they better not say "Well MY child would never do that."

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:08am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I had something with my name on it removed from a google search before. There was a bit of a process. Mine wasn’t crime related so I succeeded but there was no guarantee when I submitted the request.

I know someone with a name that is not common, but a person unrelated to him in his home town committed an ghastly crime. All over the nationwide news it was.
People threw eggs and stuff at his house, broke his windows and terrorized his mother. He was sure that he wasnt getting jobs or apartments because of it too.
Eventually he looked into getting this other guys name taken down off google searches. And he was successful.

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:12am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Did you ever racially abuse someone and send them death threats?

Yes.

Have you ever done anything you are not proud of when you were young?

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:14am

weldoninhio wrote: »

How much would a criminal conviction and the €500 fine have cost the taxpayer? As it stands the only punishment he got was handing over pocket money.

Did you read what I wrote?

There are countless other people who have committed far more egregious offences who will not see the inside of a cell either.

The state is overflowing with scumbags walking the streets with suspended sentences, why would this person be ahead of them in the queue to serve time in prison?

Would you prefer to see some stupid kid who made racist remarks over the Internet locked up before somebody who committed a violent crime? That's where value for money for the taxpayer comes into play.

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:15am

JeffreyEpspeen wrote: »

Ian Wright mocked Roy Keane's accent on live TV in front of millions of viewers. Hopefully he learned a lesson of his own through this. 18 or 19 years old is old enough to know better and so is 57.

I think Ian Wright deserved jail for that more than this kid did.
He was old enough to know better.

Pogue eile · 05-02-2021 11:19am

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 11:22am

nullzero wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

There are countless other people who have committed far more egregious offences who will not see the inside of a cell either.

The state is overflowing with scumbags walking the streets with suspended sentences, why would this person be ahead of them in the queue to serve time in prison?

Would you prefer to see some stupid kid who made racist remarks over the Internet locked up before somebody who committed a violent crime? That's where value for money for the taxpayer comes into play.

Did you read what I wrote?

No mention of a cell in what I wrote to you. How much would it have cost the state to convict him and keep the same non-punishment (hand over your pocket money)??

Liamario · 05-02-2021 11:28am

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Of course there's a racism problem in Ireland, but it's not the same as racism in America. American racism is baked into society, Irish racism is far more casual and loose and is used against everyone and anyone (including fellow Irish men and women)

The Inbetween is mine · 05-02-2021 11:28am

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

1: did Patrick O'Brien do wrong.... Yes.
2: was it a racist act....... Yes
3: was it incitement to hatred.... No
4: was this a jailable offence ... No

I think that covers the most of it...even handed posters are not blaming Wright.... Nor are they excusing the actions of Mr O'Brien.
But a jail sentence for this case would be wrong, and that's about how I see it

Pogue eile · 05-02-2021 11:31am

Liamario wrote: »

Of course there's a racism problem in Ireland, but it's not the same as racism in America. American racism is baked into society, Irish racism is far more casual and loose and is used against everyone and anyone (including fellow Irish men and women)

Wow!

The prosecution rests your honor!

partyguinness · 05-02-2021 11:33am

zimmermania wrote: »

If you are referring to all those who consider that racist remarks have no place in society a "mob"i find your remarks offensive.

You see, we have a Court system in the country which are presided over by Judges. As a country we do not convict on speculation. Nor do we have trial by media or trial by internet with all sorts voicing all sorts of opinions without the same information the Judge had to hand.

If you are that easily offended you really are in the wrong place.

zimmermania wrote: »

I am also puzzled that you can claim that he would have gone to the circuit court to appeal the 1 month in jail!.How do you know that or are just making an assumption?

Absolutely nothing puzzling about it whatsoever. It could only be puzzling to a keyboard warrior without a clue. That is just showing up your lack of understanding. Of course he would have appealed.

"1 month in jail. Grand. Sure I'll take that...I could do with a bit of a break" said nobody ever.

If you were handed a 1 jail sentence would you just take it on the chin and allow yourself to be carted off in the back of a police car to Mountjoy or

Would you listen to your solicitor, lodge a bail application, and appeal to the Circuit Court and take your chances there a few months later?

Would you prefer to spend that night in Mounjoy or in the comfort of your own bed? Not so puzzling now is it.

zimmermania wrote: »

If he had the neck to appeal a 1 month sentence (had he received it) i would be hopeful that the sentence would be increased to 3 months which might be more appropriate for the vile remarks directed at another human being and such a sentence might deter others of a like mind to keep their racist remarks to themselves.

Perhaps it would have been increased. That's the chance you take on appeal. But extremely unlikely.

I am delighted the lowlife was caught.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:33am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

No mention of a cell in what I wrote to you. How much would it have cost the state to convict him and keep the same non-punishment (hand over your pocket money)??

A criminal conviction will stay with him forever and will limit his employment opportunities. Without speculating over this person's background I'll take that a criminal conviction is a lifelong mark against them that they cannot erase and would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on their ability to seek and secure employment. The likelihood of them becoming involved in criminality as a result of this is not something that can be ignored out of hand. The likelihood of any conviction being appealed also hasn't been taken into consideration.

The judgment may not have been satisfactory to you or others but it was correct in this instance.

I'd suggest that if people are seriously aggrieved by this ruling that you get together and begin a petition or something, although based upon the level of rationale put into arguing this here I doubt it would go very far.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-02-2021 11:33am

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:35am

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Who has blamed Ian Wright for anything?

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:37am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 11:38am

nullzero wrote: »

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

Someone literally asked if what he said was racist.

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:38am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

Everyone does accept that.
What most dont agree on is should he have done time.
A bit of perspective is always good. Ian Wright was hardly hiding under the couch in fear for his life because of a death threat he read on the internet.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:43am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Someone literally asked if what he said was racist.

Can you link it? I can't find it.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-02-2021 11:45am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Everyone does accept that.
What most dont agree on is should he have done time.
A bit of perspective is always good. Ian Wright was hardly hiding under the couch in fear for his life because of a death threat he read on the internet.

Call it straight out there as racist abuse then Jimmy. Don't talk around the subject don't use whataboutery bringing up Ian Wrights past. State this was racist abuse and unacceptable!

RobbieTheRobber · 05-02-2021 11:46am

nullzero wrote: »

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

Was this racist abuse?

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 11:51am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Call it straight out there as racist abuse then Jimmy. Don't talk around the subject don't use whataboutery bringing up Ian Wrights past. State this was racist abuse and unacceptable!

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

weldoninhio · 05-02-2021 11:52am

nullzero wrote: »

Can you link it? I can't find it.

Post 150 Was this really racism? He made disgusting insulting and threatening comments that is undeniable and he should face consequences. But he made them with the intent to cause insult and fear due to an bizarre and illconceived sense of aggrivement rather than from outright racist beliefs.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-02-2021 11:53am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

Call it out for the racist abuse it was Jimmy, this shouldn't be so hard unless you are defending that it wasn't racist.

partyguinness · 05-02-2021 11:53am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

It was vile racist language. Don't forget that important bit.

Calling someone a wanker is very different from calling someone a b**** wanker.

Omackeral · 05-02-2021 11:56am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Your points dont make sense

Ian Wright is a victim here of a serious death threat.

Joey give over. It's a racist 18 year old idiot troll with mush for brains in another country online. It's nowhere near a serious death threat.

05-02-2021 11:57am

Pogue eile wrote: »

Wow!

The prosecution rests your honor!

He’s right. Are you excusing American slavery, Jim Crow, Native American slaughters etc. How can you even begin to compare the two countries.

I haven’t read what this kid tweeted but it’s probably on par with or worse with the abuse that James McClean gets.

Both should be prosecuted.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:57am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Post 150 Was this really racism? He made disgusting insulting and threatening comments that is undeniable and he should face consequences. But he made them with the intent to cause insult and fear due to an bizarre and illconceived sense of aggrivement rather than from outright racist beliefs.

Thanks.

It obviously was racism. That person should have recognised that.

Pogue eile · 05-02-2021 11:58am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I doubt the kid is a racist. He's just using the best possible weapons he has to get to someone, he probably went out drinking with his 3 black mates afterwards, then went home to his Asian GF.

coinop wrote: »

Is bullying a ginger a lesser crime than bullying an African?

Robsweezie wrote: »

i doubt the lad himself actually holds genuine deeply held racist views,

Fog Hat wrote: »

Drop the white saviour complex and think rationally.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

But I am sure Wright heard it all before. Shame on him, wishing prison on an immature kid for shooting his mouth off.

Someone asked for examples from this thread of people dismissing, defending or victim blaming - the above are just from a quick search of the first 4 pages of this thread, there are plenty more afterwards as well.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 11:58am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Was this racist abuse?

Yes.

I never said any different.

nullzero · 05-02-2021 12:00pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Someone asked for examples from this thread of people dismissing, defending or victim blaming - the above are just from a quick search of the first 4 pages of this thread, there are plenty more afterwards as well.

All of those posts were rebuffed and those who posted them chose not to defend their positions because they were ridiculous.

The meat of this thread has been centred on whether or not the judgment passed was correct or not.

Dante · 05-02-2021 12:01pm

nullzero wrote: »

A criminal conviction will stay with him forever and will limit his employment opportunities. Without speculating over this person's background I'll take that a criminal conviction is a lifelong mark against them that they cannot erase and would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on their ability to seek and secure employment. The likelihood of them becoming involved in criminality as a result of this is not something that can be ignored out of hand. The likelihood of any conviction being appealed also hasn't been taken into consideration.

The judgment may not have been satisfactory to you or others but it was correct in this instance.

I disagree tbh, actions like this should have consequences. This type of behaviour will never stop unless those consequences are actually enforced. He racially abused and sent death threats directly to someone online, if that doesn't warrant a criminal conviction then I'm not sure what does.

JimmyVik · 05-02-2021 12:02pm

I think people probably wouldnt want to jail the kid if he wasnt a traveller.
Would you jail you own kids for posting language like that on the internet?
The prisons would be overflowing.

golondrinas · 05-02-2021 12:04pm

More than surprised that Wright was disappointed that the lad didn't get a hefty jail sentence. A custodial sentence would have ruined this lads shot at life going forward. I thought by Wrights tv demeanour he was a more forgiving type. Then on the pitch he could put the boot in, I suppose. it is well researched that young males brains don't mature fully until about 23/24. I am sure the learned judge was versed in this.

Anything the young lad posted was undefendable .

05-02-2021 12:07pm

Didn’t Ian Wright mock an Irish accent on air once?

What are your thoughts on the Ian Wright/Patrick O'Brien situation?

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