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Paying for Childrens College

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    #152
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Your partner / spouse needs to work.


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    #153
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I'm from rural Ireland - you're correct, there are people like yourself around the place but you'd be very much the minority and getting smaller

    And they're the minority because those types of people have built on almost all of their families' road frontage.


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    #154
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,939 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    I paid for my kids to go to college. I only had 2, which was a limit to what I could afford to see through to adulthood. I pay my own way in the world


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    #155
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    The college/university system needs to be compacted down. The whole 3rd level sector is hugely bloated. The taxpayer is putting huge money in with questionable returns.

    The entrepreneur Jerry Kenneally who sold Stockbyte to Getty images for 100 million had an article in the media recently where he discussed this.

    He talked about how many college graduates are working in call centres a few years after graduating. A lot of degree courses are worthless and the taxpayer shouldn't be funding them.

    Many degree courses are only 15 - 20 hours a week and students are only hanging around or getting out of bed too late in the morning. It gets the person into bad habits.

    With the state's finances coming under pressure in future years from pension payouts and age care there will be less money to go around for the 3rd level sector.

    I don't think student loans are a good option especially when work for young people is so precarious and it could just be kicking the problem further down the road.

    Cutting degree courses from 4 to 3 years could save a lot of money and there would be little dilution in the quality of the graduate. Masters courses could be funded by the employer if they feel they are of enough value.

    I'd also like to see our focus on languages improved. We could really do with funding summer language courses for secondary age students. A lot of 2nd level students are twiddling their thumbs for 3 months every summer unless they have a summer job. Even consider sending students on summer exchange programmes. They'd grow up an awful lot.


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    #156
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    The college/university system needs to be compacted down. The whole 3rd level sector is hugely bloated. The taxpayer is putting huge money in with questionable returns.

    The entrepreneur Jerry Kenneally who sold Stockbyte to Getty images for 100 million had an article in the media recently where he discussed this.

    He talked about how many college graduates are working in call centres a few years after graduating. A lot of degree courses are worthless and the taxpayer shouldn't be funding them.

    Many degree courses are only 15 - 20 hours a week and students are only hanging around or getting out of bed too late in the morning. It gets the person into bad habits.

    With the state's finances coming under pressure in future years from pension payouts and age care there will be less money to go around for the 3rd level sector.

    I don't think student loans are a good option especially when work for young people is so precarious and it could just be kicking the problem further down the road.

    Cutting degree courses from 4 to 3 years could save a lot of money and there would be little dilution in the quality of the graduate. Masters courses could be funded by the employer if they feel they are of enough value.

    I'd also like to see our focus on languages improved. We could really do with funding summer language courses for secondary age students. A lot of 2nd level students are twiddling their thumbs for 3 months every summer unless they have a summer job. Even consider sending students on summer exchange programmes. They'd grow up an awful lot.

    I was a lecturer. There is a known issue with third level education in that it was developed for a different type of student than it now mainly deals with. A couple of generations ago most people who went to college were curious and engaged natural student types. Now most are people who just want to check off the boxes they need to check off to get a bit of paper to get a decent job.

    From what I have seen it has not adjusted well to this. It is very common for there for students to be given excessive assistance with projects, excessive information about upcoming exams. Most lecturers seemed to do this and to benefit from it. Trying to force them to learn how to figure things out for themselves was frequently met with more resistance than would have been considered polite "in my day" - even in areas such as programming where that sort of skill if fundamentally important.

    You cannot cut the volume of a degree course because a degree course is defined by volume and level. A degree source with three quarters of the volume is in fact a level 8 diploma. That doesn't undermine the basic point, it's just semantics of the terms.

    Personally I learnt a lot more from independent study and practice than I ever did in the context of the education system. Most people coming out of third level computing courses are not realistically going to be very useful as developers unless they've gone beyond the scope of their course.


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    #157
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    You`re right and it has`nt. The 6 years in college included a masters and makes little difference to a teaching career.

    The entire teaching system is broken in this country. If you have just qualified as a teacher and you are looking for a job you can only apply to the teaching jobs panel for the area that you live / have a permanent address. Most of the primary school jobs are virtual, they don`t exist in reality.

    Now you think I`m talking rubbish, let me explain. Mrs Bloggs who is a primary school teacher has been teaching in X school for years and years. Her retirement date comes up, she does`nt want to retire but she must. So heres what happens. Her vacancy is advertised on the panel but the principal and the board has already decided that they will hire Mrs Bloggs back on a year to year sub basis. That means that she will have her pension and will be paid for working on the basis of a substitute teacher. Meanwhile all the new younger candidates who have applied for her job will go through the sham of applying and interviews but the job does not effectively exist if you get me. That happens up and down the country, not in all circumstances bit in a fair proportion. Stop and think how many 60 and even 70 year old teachers you see in primary schools. My 28 year old applied for 86 jobs over the summer last year and got 1 interview, Yes 1 interview. It was`nt untill Sept she picked up the sub job

    The other virtual jobs that don`t really exist are the entry level where a new teacher has been lucky enough over the past 3 years or so to secure a permanent job. She / he then sees the riches that can be made by teaching in Dubai/ Emirates / UK etc and take a career break for a few years. Her job cannot be filled while the career break is in force so the job is advertised and given to a substitute teacher on a zero hours contract.

    Pregnancy, illness and other reasons make up a further percentage so that at the end of the day there are very little real permanent teaching jobs there.

    So to further muddy the waters the TUI, ASTI and INTO are the 3 trade unions that have a complete closed shop on the teaching profession and all 3 are run by men and women of a certain age that are only interested in preserving their terms and conditions. The unions negotiated the deal with the Dept of Education that when teachers with a zero hours contract ie sub teachers come into the school holidays, they are paid a weekly allowance /dole of €85 per week, Now how on earth are the trade unions representing the graduate teachers if they agreed to such a rubbish deal, how can you exist on €85 per week??

    So those who say get out and get a 2nd job, Yes that is an option and my 28 year old wants to do that. She worked in a pub to get herself through college and they have offered her a deal to go back there permanently at 3 times her salary of 2017. She wants to throw the teaching job and go back there but I`m trying to say hold on it will work out eventually and maybe Please God she will get a permanent job in this summers round of vacancies.

    To those who say teachers should get off their backside and get a 2nd job, riddle me this. Do you really want your child going to school to be taught by someone who has been working in a pub untill after midnight the night before and is tired cranky etc etc.

    Sorry for the rant but the system needs to be ripped up and started again.

    This is almost completely untrue and inaccurate. Newly qualified teachers have nothing to do with the panel and can apply for a job wherever they like. Retired teachers can only be hired if you demonstrate no other applicants available - this just would not happen for a year long position replacing a retiree. Career breaks are filled on a proper contract and the sub is made permanent (CID) once they have done two years plus one day in the school. Zero hour contracts are exceptionally rare at primary level - never heard of a single case - they are an issue at second level. The unions have never negotiated anything of the sort for subs facing end of term unemployment - the same rules apply as for any other person signing on.

    There are significant problems in teaching at the moment - I have two weeks of it left before I leave to return to my previous career after 12 years - but your current understanding of the issues is poor.


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    #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Why on earth do parents pay for third level education?

    They are adults. Let them leave school, get a entry level job, save up for college. Meet them halfway and let them stay at home rent free provided they are saving into a college fund

    What is the rush from secondary school straight into 3rd level?


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    #159
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why on earth do parents pay for third level education?

    They are adults. Let them leave school, get a entry level job, save up for college. Meet them halfway and let them stay at home rent free provided they are saving into a college fund

    What is the rush from secondary school straight into 3rd level?
    Money you pay to support them in third level education as a young adult doesn't count toward their inheritance tax threshold - so it's a way of transferring wealth to them without having the government grabbing a third of it. Also most jobs available to them at that stage are going to be a bit **** - better to enable them to spend their time more constructively than being dependent on a bad wage from a bad job.


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    #160
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why on earth do parents pay for third level education?

    They are adults. Let them leave school, get a entry level job, save up for college. Meet them halfway and let them stay at home rent free provided they are saving into a college fund

    What is the rush from secondary school straight into 3rd level?

    I was happy to pay it. I don't see the point in waiting to go to college if you know what you want to do. Better to get your education out of the way and get working imo.


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    #161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You could also teach your adult “child” a lesson that they can work hard to be able to afford the things they want to do, there is no reason to rush into third level


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    #162
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You could also teach your adult “child” a lesson that they can work hard to be able to afford the things they want to do, there is no reason to rush into third level

    In my case my child wanted to go straight to college. Like I said before we have the money and are happy to pay. I'd rather do that than have her at home for the foreseeable future working a dead end job she hates.


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