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Paying for Childrens College
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This has been my awareness of the situation here. A status symbol too? One of my landlords had 4 grown boys, all doing course after course and not a job in sight. Too "educated" to help Dad on the farm he said.
There is also a systematic bump to push a lot of fields into the academical field. I've seen that back home where suddenly anything childcare got academical even though there were particular schools for it where you're trained and educated without doing a third level degree and it just worked fine. Now you need a proper degree for anything that involves childcare.0 -
Started a college fund for my kids literally the week they were born.Direct debit in every month into a index linked fund which has performed reasonably well over the last 10 years or so.
I know we won't be getting any help from the State when the time comes to send them to University and it's not something I want to be taking on a lot of debt for at that stage. Not sure if we'll have it all covered when the time comes but at least by starting early we have some chance.
Raising kids is an expensive business unless you're one of those people who expects the State to foot the bill for everything.0 -
Bubbaclaus wrote: »Well in that case you wouldn't have to save anything. Your child would just take out a college loan and repay it when they start working themselves.
The current system in Ireland results in children from 'squeezed middle' families struggling to afford college as they are above the threshold for grants. If we moved to a student loan system it would mean everyone in the country has an equal opportunity to get to college.
Student loans will cause a whole heap of other problems though.
The only thing that keeps the cost down is that the squeezed middle have to pay for it. There is a limit to what they can afford
If we had a 'proper' student loan schme, you can be pretty much guaranteed that the cost/fees would rocket. It might save the parents money but kids would be coming out with debts of 50-100K.
The sense of entitlement of those employed in 3rd level education - especially universities - is breathtaking. They all think they should be paid the same as the provost of Harvard. Then you have the money that would be p**sed up against the wall on all sorts.
No, the current situation is bad but student loans will only make in 10 times worse.0 -
I really thought once I got my 2 kids through UNI, I could start planning for myself and my wifes next stage of life and plan for our later years. But no, it just goes on and on. Have a 28 year old at home, done 6 years in college and 3 years as a sub teacher on 1 of these ridiculous Dept of Education zero hours contracts. She still has`nt got a permanent job and her P60 for 2017 showed €12k. Have a 24 year old at home as well,finished a degree last May, couldnt get a job, ended up in a Spar shop earning €60 a day and maybe getting 3 days a week. Needs to move their careers on but a Masters is €17k odd. Its not good for either of their self esteem to be at this stage in life and not moving on0
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They need the 3,500 each per year for free fees.
The rest they can get by working part time.
I wouldn't be recommending college where they can't live at home for the cost.0 -
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I really thought once I got my 2 kids through UNI, I could start planning for myself and my wifes next stage of life and plan for our later years. But no, it just goes on and on. Have a 28 year old at home, done 6 years in college and 3 years as a sub teacher on 1 of these ridiculous Dept of Education zero hours contracts. She still has`nt got a permanent job and her P60 for 2017 showed €12k. Have a 24 year old at home as well,finished a degree last May, couldnt get a job, ended up in a Spar shop earning €60 a day and maybe getting 3 days a week. Needs to move their careers on but a Masters is €17k odd. Its not good for either of their self esteem to be at this stage in life and not moving on
17k for a masters?
Is it in space?0 -
Smurfit Business School €17k, another option Trinity €15k, not a whole lot of options about0
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I really thought once I got my 2 kids through UNI, I could start planning for myself and my wifes next stage of life and plan for our later years. But no, it just goes on and on. Have a 28 year old at home, done 6 years in college and 3 years as a sub teacher on 1 of these ridiculous Dept of Education zero hours contracts. She still has`nt got a permanent job and her P60 for 2017 showed €12k. Have a 24 year old at home as well,finished a degree last May, couldnt get a job, ended up in a Spar shop earning €60 a day and maybe getting 3 days a week. Needs to move their careers on but a Masters is €17k odd. Its not good for either of their self esteem to be at this stage in life and not moving on
That's called them being precious. I finished university in the tail end of the worse recession going and and have managed to earn multiples times of my starting salary as I started at the bottom and worked up.
A Masters is not going to fix the issue...0 -
Experience_day wrote: »That's called them being precious. I finished university in the tail end of the worse recession going and and have managed to earn multiples times of my starting salary as I started at the bottom and worked up.
A Masters is not going to fix the issue...
Same here. Started on little or no wages and worked up. A Masters won't improve the teachers options.0 -
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I don't want to preach but finished college in late 2008 and that was a depressing, depressing time.
I'd love to have been graduating under current circumstances.0 -
I really thought once I got my 2 kids through UNI, I could start planning for myself and my wifes next stage of life and plan for our later years. But no, it just goes on and on. Have a 28 year old at home, done 6 years in college and 3 years as a sub teacher on 1 of these ridiculous Dept of Education zero hours contracts. She still has`nt got a permanent job and her P60 for 2017 showed €12k. Have a 24 year old at home as well,finished a degree last May, couldnt get a job, ended up in a Spar shop earning €60 a day and maybe getting 3 days a week. Needs to move their careers on but a Masters is €17k odd. Its not good for either of their self esteem to be at this stage in life and not moving on
What is the 24 year olds degree in?0 -
hi all
Not sure if I'm on the right forum but here goes. Does any one here have a student or know a student attending Gronigen university in Holland. I have a son hoping to attend next September and we are struggling to figure out accomodation.thanks in advance0 -
I really thought once I got my 2 kids through UNI, I could start planning for myself and my wifes next stage of life and plan for our later years. But no, it just goes on and on. Have a 28 year old at home, done 6 years in college and 3 years as a sub teacher on 1 of these ridiculous Dept of Education zero hours contracts. She still has`nt got a permanent job and her P60 for 2017 showed €12k. Have a 24 year old at home as well,finished a degree last May, couldnt get a job, ended up in a Spar shop earning €60 a day and maybe getting 3 days a week. Needs to move their careers on but a Masters is €17k odd. Its not good for either of their self esteem to be at this stage in life and not moving on
I don't want to sound too harsh here but I think the problem may be you. Once they are educated to degree level, your job is done.
28 and still at home? No rent so no incentive to earn decent money. What would he/she do on 12K pa if you weren't providing free board? 24, Out the door!
You are doing them no favours at all by subsidising their existence.
Have a nephew that recently graduated as a primary teacher. No wrk? Off he went to the UK and is surviving independently there.
One of the advantages of living in rural Ireland is that the kids know from an early age that they will have to leave. Is the phenomenon of kids staying at home mainly an urban thing?0 -
i think its interesting that so many parents here are assuming their kids will go to college and are prepared to pay for it. That leaves the kids with no hunger for it, its taken for granted that the parents are paying (and sourcing their accommodation!). The dynamic is all wrong, if you provide everything until they're 21/22 they are entering the world with no concept of struggle and how to cope with not getting your way in life. Kids now go to college with the attitude that they are doing their parents a favour! a 28 yr old with a professional qualification looking for parents to bankroll more college needs a boot in the arse more than a cheque imo.
I firmly believe this shielding of young people from the harsher realities of life leaves them with no resilience in the face of adversity. I admit its very hard to stand back and watch them fail at times but that's part of a parents job. no wonder we have so many with mental health problems when they literally have somebody else worrying about everything for them until they're in the 20's and even 30's sometimes. When faced with the inevitable disappointments that life throws at you they have no coping skills and hit rock bottom very fast. You cant mind them forever, you must allow disappointment to happen so they can cope and learn from it.0 -
moycullen14 wrote: »I don't want to sound too harsh here but I think the problem may be you. Once they are educated to degree level, your job is done.
28 and still at home? No rent so no incentive to earn decent money. What would he/she do on 12K pa if you weren't providing free board? 24, Out the door!
You are doing them no favours at all by subsidising their existence.
Have a nephew that recently graduated as a primary teacher. No wrk? Off he went to the UK and is surviving independently there.
One of the advantages of living in rural Ireland is that the kids know from an early age that they will have to leave. Is the phenomenon of kids staying at home mainly an urban thing?
Id disagree with a fair bit of this OP.
There's a few generalisations about urbanites in there. I mean, people wouldn't be happy if I said alot of rural people got free fees and grants for accommodation that urbanites can't get...
As I say, generalisations.
Rents are such in cities that you really need 30k to get a room and even then you won't save.
I don't want to make too many arguments on their behalf but the post above sounds a little disconnected with the reality in Dublin at the moment.
It really isn't as simple as kick them out.
That being said, is the teacher satisfied she will eventually get a permanent place?
There are certainly jobs out there.0 -
i think its interesting that so many parents here are assuming their kids will go to college and are prepared to pay for it. That leaves the kids with no hunger for it, its taken for granted that the parents are paying (and sourcing their accommodation!). The dynamic is all wrong, if you provide everything until they're 21/22 they are entering the world with no concept of struggle and how to cope with not getting your way in life. Kids now go to college with the attitude that they are doing their parents a favour! a 28 yr old with a professional qualification looking for parents to bankroll more college needs a boot in the arse more than a cheque imo.
I firmly believe this shielding of young people from the harsher realities of life leaves them with no resilience in the face of adversity. I admit its very hard to stand back and watch them fail at times but that's part of a parents job. no wonder we have so many with mental health problems when they literally have somebody else worrying about everything for them until they're in the 20's and even 30's sometimes. When faced with the inevitable disappointments that life throws at you they have no coping skills and hit rock bottom very fast. You cant mind them forever, you must allow disappointment to happen so they can cope and learn from it.
Times have changed, the concept of education has changed. Nowadays so many companies want graduates, so that leaves little options but going into third level. I don't think it's right because third level isn't for everyone and it pushes people into paths they're maybe not made for but there's little choice.
The cost aren't anywhere close of back in the day with accommodation costs being through the roof (the room prices in the newly whipped up purpose built blocks start at 250 a week!) and student shares are sparse enough.
To maintain somewhat healthy life balance you can only work so many hours and there are only so many jobs around that can work with your schedule in university.
If you can stay living at home, it's all good and so much easier but there are many students that either would have to commute and move and the costs are so off the rail that without support you'd struggle BIG time to afford it without debt. And I don't support the thought of starting your career and working life with a healthy pile of debt.
No generation before had to deal with such out of proportion costs for third level.0 -
Another consequence of the housing crisis is a generation growing up with no experience of running a home until their mid 30's. I've no issue with people living at home because its just too expensive to rent but the lines are blurred with adult children living at home, parents want to keep on "parenting" and this prevents proper maturity from developing. I don't blame the adult children and I see it comes from a good place from the parents but washing clothes and leaving meals prepared and not expecting them to carry out maintenance on the home leaves them unprepared in other, more basic ways too.0
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Accommodation costs way more, I agree but free fees only started in 96/97 I think, up til then it was 5k per year unless you got a grant. Those purpose built student blocks were always more expensive than sharing a room (with a smelly, snoring stranger:D)in digs. I don't think any students do digs now, its all single room apartments or house shares.The cost aren't anywhere close of back in the day with accommodation costs being through the roof (the room prices in the newly whipped up purpose built blocks start at 250 a week!) and student shares are sparse enough.
To maintain somewhat healthy life balance you can only work so many hours and there are only so many jobs around that can work with your schedule in university.
If you can stay living at home, it's all good and so much easier but there are many students that either would have to commute and move and the costs are so off the rail that without support you'd struggle BIG time to afford it without debt. And I don't support the thought of starting your career and working life with a healthy pile of debt.
No generation before had to deal with such out of proportion costs for third level.0 -
That's a few issues together there. As a kid I did or helped with bits of work around the house, so that should continue. I'd like to move home so that I'd have a deposit for my own place saved in under a year (then pay less on a mortgage than I'm paying for renting a room) but it's not an option. Whether I'm there or not I help out however I can. When I was there I had my washing done because it was easier for my mam to just have it in a general run rather than me getting in the way. :P Food-wise I probably had something home-cooked twice a week. My parents aren't in a position to help me at the moment, if they were they would, and I'd do the same for my kids. People helping each other out isn't a lack of maturity.Another consequence of the housing crisis is a generation growing up with no experience of running a home until their mid 30's. I've no issue with people living at home because its just too expensive to rent but the lines are blurred with adult children living at home, parents want to keep on "parenting" and this prevents proper maturity from developing. I don't blame the adult children and I see it comes from a good place from the parents but washing clothes and leaving meals prepared and not expecting them to carry out maintenance on the home leaves them unprepared in other, more basic ways too.
Of course there are the ones who expect clothes ironed, meal at a certain time, not handing up money, they're the arseholes. :P0 -
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Another consequence of the housing crisis is a generation growing up with no experience of running a home until their mid 30's. I've no issue with people living at home because its just too expensive to rent but the lines are blurred with adult children living at home, parents want to keep on "parenting" and this prevents proper maturity from developing. I don't blame the adult children and I see it comes from a good place from the parents but washing clothes and leaving meals prepared and not expecting them to carry out maintenance on the home leaves them unprepared in other, more basic ways too.
I think that's a bit simplified, we lived with my partners parents for 1,5 years and it was tough having lived on my own many many years before I moved over to Ireland. Most adults still living at home are desperate to move out but have their hands tied, many Irish parents are really set in their ways and throw a fit every time you wanna cook or so. We did everything ourselves, his mother had such problems letting go and let us do our thing, such situations are tense and tough on everyone but there are so little options for many.
If you're earning 200something a week you can often put north of 50% just into a shabby room somewhere somewhat close to where you live and it seems more attractive living at home and focus full-time on your studies to be done asap.
Back home you can put your course times together yourself and every single student I know who works part-time is not finishing within 3 years because the work times don't go together with university times and for the sake of money many sacrifice college time and courses to just pay their bills and study a year or two longer.
There's always a trade-off and no situation is ideal really. You either struggle financially, live home and have no independence or graduate with debt around your neck.0 -
This thread has just made me do some necessary, but seriously depressing, maths.
Thanks OP.0 -
This thread has just made me do some necessary, but seriously depressing, maths.
Thanks OP.
It is scary though how fast education requirements change. It could be totally different when my toddler wants to get into third level. It could be that costs of accommodation are only for the rich, it could be the fees going through the roof and the number of approx 30k could double or triple, maybe there are harsh entrance requirements where only the best of the best can attend and parents have to fork out a lot of money privately to provide the training they need for just the entrance.
That is what scares me even more than the money currently necessary.0 -
Accommodation costs way more, I agree but free fees only started in 96/97 I think, up til then it was 5k per year unless you got a grant. Those purpose built student blocks were always more expensive than sharing a room (with a smelly, snoring stranger:D)in digs. I don't think any students do digs now, its all single room apartments or house shares.
The big difference is though that there was never before the unwritten requirement in so many fields that you need a degree. The "working your way up" is not the mentality anymore, people don't stay in the same companies for decades but change every couple of years for their personal progress. The CV needs to look as impressive as possible.
Graduates and junior level employees change their jobs a lot to get bumps in their pay, there is a lot of stiff competition out there.
In my partner's school it would have been a no-no if a child wouldn't go on into third level and get a degree and pick up a trade instead, this mindset trickled down on the majority of families.0 -
I'm many years away from sending kids to college (they're 6 and 3), but as soon as both were out of nappies we set up a direct debit to put €20 a week into a savings account. It works out as a little over a grand a year each. So by the time they're 18, there should be about 15/16 grand each there. If at all possible, a little bit put aside regularly over the years is probably the way to go.0
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moycullen14 wrote: »
One of the advantages of living in rural Ireland is that the kids know from an early age that they will have to leave. Is the phenomenon of kids staying at home mainly an urban thing?
It's very much a Dublin-thing.
Most of the people I know from Dublin continued to live with their parents into their late-20's and some into mid-30's - because of 'rent and all'.
If you're from the country, you'll probably start renting in your late teens.0 -
Accommodation costs way more, I agree but free fees only started in 96/97 I think, up til then it was 5k per year unless you got a grant. Those purpose built student blocks were always more expensive than sharing a room (with a smelly, snoring stranger:D)in digs. I don't think any students do digs now, its all single room apartments or house shares.
Fees were 1500 IR£ during the early-mid 1990s, AFAI recall.0 -
facehugger99 wrote: »It's very much a Dublin-thing.
Most of the people I know from Dublin continued to live with their parents into their late-20's and some into mid-30's - because of 'rent and all'.
If you're from the country, you'll probably start renting in your late teens.
Given you go to the city, many don't and enroll into part-time courses later on.
Not uncommon that the smart kid gets to go to college and emigrates ( I kid you not, for some reason every family around here has a kid that has a well-paying job in Australia and never comes back), the strong kid gets the farm and the rest is fending for themselves and they work in either a trade or are on the dole and earn some handyman cash on the side. The girls that leave after Junior cert marry young and have a horseload of kids before they are in their mid 20s and either stay Homemakers or go on and do any course that you can incorporate well into running a household and rearing kids.
Tl;dr: The smart ones leave rural Ireland and often Ireland and never come back, the rest stays and never worry about Dublin rents in their lives.0 -
facehugger99 wrote: »It's very much a Dublin-thing.
Most of the people I know from Dublin continued to live with their parents into their late-20's and some into mid-30's - because of 'rent and all'.
If you're from the country, you'll probably start renting in your late teens.
I'd disagree, I'm from a rural area and didn't move out until 24, commuted (had my own car) to college as did most of my friends.
A good few of my friends continued to live at home until their late 20's when they moved out into their own bought or more so built houses (the advantage of having your own land). I would have do the same without doubt if my job was commutable from home which it wasn't at the time.0 -
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Adelynn Salty Cocaine wrote: »Same here. Started on little or no wages and worked up. A Masters won't improve the teachers options.
You`re right and it has`nt. The 6 years in college included a masters and makes little difference to a teaching career.
The entire teaching system is broken in this country. If you have just qualified as a teacher and you are looking for a job you can only apply to the teaching jobs panel for the area that you live / have a permanent address. Most of the primary school jobs are virtual, they don`t exist in reality.
Now you think I`m talking rubbish, let me explain. Mrs Bloggs who is a primary school teacher has been teaching in X school for years and years. Her retirement date comes up, she does`nt want to retire but she must. So heres what happens. Her vacancy is advertised on the panel but the principal and the board has already decided that they will hire Mrs Bloggs back on a year to year sub basis. That means that she will have her pension and will be paid for working on the basis of a substitute teacher. Meanwhile all the new younger candidates who have applied for her job will go through the sham of applying and interviews but the job does not effectively exist if you get me. That happens up and down the country, not in all circumstances bit in a fair proportion. Stop and think how many 60 and even 70 year old teachers you see in primary schools. My 28 year old applied for 86 jobs over the summer last year and got 1 interview, Yes 1 interview. It was`nt untill Sept she picked up the sub job
The other virtual jobs that don`t really exist are the entry level where a new teacher has been lucky enough over the past 3 years or so to secure a permanent job. She / he then sees the riches that can be made by teaching in Dubai/ Emirates / UK etc and take a career break for a few years. Her job cannot be filled while the career break is in force so the job is advertised and given to a substitute teacher on a zero hours contract.
Pregnancy, illness and other reasons make up a further percentage so that at the end of the day there are very little real permanent teaching jobs there.
So to further muddy the waters the TUI, ASTI and INTO are the 3 trade unions that have a complete closed shop on the teaching profession and all 3 are run by men and women of a certain age that are only interested in preserving their terms and conditions. The unions negotiated the deal with the Dept of Education that when teachers with a zero hours contract ie sub teachers come into the school holidays, they are paid a weekly allowance /dole of €85 per week, Now how on earth are the trade unions representing the graduate teachers if they agreed to such a rubbish deal, how can you exist on €85 per week??
So those who say get out and get a 2nd job, Yes that is an option and my 28 year old wants to do that. She worked in a pub to get herself through college and they have offered her a deal to go back there permanently at 3 times her salary of 2017. She wants to throw the teaching job and go back there but I`m trying to say hold on it will work out eventually and maybe Please God she will get a permanent job in this summers round of vacancies.
To those who say teachers should get off their backside and get a 2nd job, riddle me this. Do you really want your child going to school to be taught by someone who has been working in a pub untill after midnight the night before and is tired cranky etc etc.
Sorry for the rant but the system needs to be ripped up and started again.0
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