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Waterford University discussion

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    #32
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
    All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
    my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
    So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...


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    #33
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Sully wrote: »
    By reading between the lines im not sure but it doesnt sound to good for WIT...

    Yes well having a Cork based minister means we were going to be f**ked over anyway.


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    #34
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    robtri wrote: »
    From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
    All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
    my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
    So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...

    People are bringing up administrative details that happen in almost every college or uni. The status of the organisation won't affect that.

    Thats not my point and what happens on a day to day basis I'm not concerned about, its what having a university would do for the south east and how it would improve the quality and quantity of jobs that come to the south east.


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    #35
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    People are bringing up administrative details that happen in almost every college or uni. The status of the organisation won't affect that.

    Thats not my point and what happens on a day to day basis I'm not concerned about, its what having a university would do for the south east and how it would improve the quality and quantity of jobs that come to the south east.


    Ok so how will having a Uni here improve the quantity and quality of jobs that come to the southeast??


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    #36
    KingLoser
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭KingLoser


    Batt O'Keeffe is meeting with all 3 institutions that applied in the next weeks...?

    Why is it that WIT had to jump through hoops to get this far, with independant assessments etc. and DIT / CIT need only raise their hand?


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    #37
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    He has already been and gone a few times I believe. From what I hear, hes a lot nicer then the previous Education Minister and they are feeling confident. Its unlikely, from what im told, that there will be a straight objection but instead either the granting of a university (since the report speaks very favourably for WIT) or changing the way ITs work.

    KingLoser; I think the report talked about ITs in general and WIT, but saying that, CIT only applied after the report unless im mistaken?


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    #38
    Nolanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    Can't find last week's Times' Irish College league table for 2008 but WIT is now number 10.


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    #39
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    robtri wrote: »
    Ok so how will having a Uni here improve the quantity and quality of jobs that come to the southeast??

    read my earlier post. and try not using "ok so" at the start of a post, it makes you sound combative.


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    #40
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    Sully wrote: »
    I don't think lack of funding is a problem at the moment (well, not a major thorn in the side at least).

    Yes funding is the problem. It has an effect on everything you listed complaining about WIT. An extra staff member dedicated to timetabling, emails etc.. would solve those issues that you think merit holding WIT back.
    I would think that the foundations of a college should be operating first ("University Like"?!). Then again, that's just your average joe-so view of how things are decided.

    At the moment, WIT are claiming they are "University Like". The way the college is running, is not really like a university at all. They have used the funding they have got over the years on other things, and have ignored a worsening problem in the core foundations of the college.

    How do you expect them to operate university like, without university like funding? Tmk, funding per student in UCD is at least 3 times that for a student in WIT. Is that fair, when WIT is trying to bring itself up to university standards.

    I think a lot of students and parents who have been affected by the problems in WIT in one way or another, would feel that perhaps these problems should be overcome first before giving them University status. The question is, WILL they use the cash to sort out those problems or will they carry on building?

    Funding for buildings are allocated separately to the day to day college funding. Anyway the problems you listed cost a fraction of the cost of a building to solve, so you're not comparing like with like.
    There was talk about using the cash to draw in better lecturers in addition.
    That can't happen while WIT is part of HETAC. That is the problem. The salary scale in WIT is pegged to all the other IT's, not the universities, whose lecturers are much better paid. If WIT became a university, only then could lecturers be paid more than other IT's.

    I'm all for the idea of upgrading, as I think its a lot more then an IT at this stage. It offers a lot, but some of whats offered isn't reaching its full potential.

    You don't sound like you like the idea at all. Why is that? Don't let a few administrators cloud your judgement. A university would be a substantial improvement to waterford, bringing more jobs and stopping a brain-drain to other parts of the country.
    Where did I make that comparison? (Waterford IT = Tralee IT)

    You didn't, I did.
    But then it's the truth isn't it. WIT is just one of 12 other IT's like Tralee and the funding for waterford is pegged to them.


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    #41
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    robtri wrote: »
    From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
    All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
    my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
    So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...
    Eh, I estimated that the cost to fix the problem would be 300,000.

    Uni status has very little to do with admin, it's about getting more money to pay for better lecturers and researchers, which should attract more students to the region, which attracts more high value companies to waterford, to hire the students, which have the training to perform the high value jobs.
    This then helps more spin off companies to set up to service the big companies and hey-presto, Waterford no longer is an unemployment black spot.

    That's why waterford should have a university.


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    #42
    redroar1942
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭redroar1942


    Where does WIT come in Irish IT rankings such as student numbers,results, job returns from courses attended etc?


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    #43
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    redroar1942 wrote: »
    Where does WIT come in Irish IT rankings such as student numbers,results, job returns from courses attended etc?
    Munster Express wrote:
    WIT 10th of 22 in Sunday Times “Guide”
    Friday, October 3rd, 2008

    by Tom Young

    Waterford IT climbed one place to 10th of 22 in the Sunday Times annual league table of Irish Universities and Institutes of Technology, published last Sunday in the paper’s University Guide for 2008.

    Although below Waterford in the league in 11th place, Limerick won the paper’s IT of the Year accolade, ahead of Blanchardstown in runner-up position. Limerick was a lowly 18th two years ago and its profile in the Guide makes reference to the “steady progress” it has made.

    NUI Maynooth is declared University of the Year, with UCD the runner-up.

    The league table is drawn up using a range of criteria, including average Leaving Cert points for entry, research funding per academic, graduate employment, the quality of degree results achieved, student/staff ratios and dropout rates.

    Despite its mid table position, WIT’s profile is highly
    complimentary. “Pioneering WIT”, it says, “has introduced the Republic’s first honours degrees in entertainment systems and another in airline transport operations this month, as well as one in quantity surveying.

    “It starts a BSc (Hons) in culinary arts next year and has upgraded most of its courses to direct-entry degrees. This month it expanded further into the traditional domain of universities by offering an arts degree - the south east’s first.

    “The main Cork Road site houses the library and a new €25m tourism
    and leisure department. An architectural, engineering and science, business and student services building is due to open in 2010. The Institute has two other campuses, College Street and the 170-acre Carriganore West, which houses the ArcLab Research and Innovation Cenre.

    “Carriganore is where Waterford will develop the south east’s premier sports complex to cater for many of the Institute’s 53 clubs and societies, which range from golf and horse riding through to debating and law.

    “There are 623 college-owned rooms and about 40 pc of first-years live in. A further 1,877 privately-owned study bedrooms are also available.

    “The Institute, which has a new business incubator unit, has the most developed research programme in its sector and is 10th best in Ireland in terms of the amount of research funding it attracts per academic. Its research budget almost doubled to €19m last year and it has a global reputation in the fields of telecommunications software and systems research”.

    According to the Guide, the first impression of WIT is of a modern place boasting impressive facilities. Its worst feature is that “being located in the south east may deter students”.

    As for its facilities, the Guide says it has good computer technology and a subsidised canteen. Also, the student bar, the Dome, provides both food and daily entertainment.

    And its “deal clincher”? WIT is very student-centred and the city is both student-friendly and easily accessible.

    I highlighted the important part of the article.

    NUI Maynooth won the 'University of the Year' Award. It had €32m in research funding and has research partnerships with Intel and other large multinationals. Wouldn't Waterford like to have that! See article.

    If a small town in Co.Kildare, which is already within easy access of 3 universities in Dublin can achieve that, I think it is only just that students and people from Waterford should push for the same.


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    #44
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    Redroar, unless you want to get banned and have this thread locked again, I think you should edit your second post (funny as it is :))


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    #45
    redroar1942
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭redroar1942


    Sounds like your making good progress down there. The ones ahead of you already have a University in close proximity. Personally I give WIT the Uni status as long as it would affect the current standard(though it could improve it). In the current climate anything to help the economy is a plus.

    Did you go ahead with the Arts courses?


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    #46
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    redroar1942 wrote: »
    Did you go ahead with the Arts courses?

    This year afaik, had to apply directly. :)


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    #47
    Elle Victorine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Elle Victorine


    Just on the topic of bad communication for new students and to the staff do you mean the WIT don't provide an induction week for the first years with a booklet outlining the departments at the very least? Or just that they don't provide guided tours? Cos that's insane if they don't even have a bloody booklet.


    As regards to parking well I've heard even that complaint in UCC amongst other things so I doubt they'd resolve it even at university status. Though that's not to say it wouldn't be a slight improvement if they did provide more spaces. But that's what the bus/walking is for. An irritating solution when your departments are out of the way I know but that's probably how they're looking at it in the long run.



    That said if I had had the option to stay at home and study my course I would have done it but no dice. At least I can do some sort of masters here relating to it. Would be wonderful to see an archaeology department sprouting up here though!


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    #48
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    A booklet is never provided IIRC. You are usually given a quick tour of the college and some information on your course. Some sort of talk and a presentation also. I think the problem mainly this year was 1st years were told very late about registration and induction. Not sure what other issues (bar the newer courses having **** all to do) they had.

    As for parking, it was a massive mess last year and very dangerous. They went to far with their improvements to fix that and removed over 100 spaces.


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    #49
    Psychedelic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    I don't understand why everyone has to park at the college, can people not avail of public transport? At least park somewhere near a bus stop somewhere in the city and get the bus to WIT from there. And i bet there's loads of people within walking distance that still drive there instead.

    Poor parking facilities isn't a good enough reason not to upgrade WIT to a university. Several non biased international experts have spoke very favourably about WIT and would be making their judgement on more important criteria.

    Also, this is not just about a university for Waterford, it's a university for the South East. The whole region would feel the benefit, hence the continued support from Kilkenny, Wexford and South Tipperary throughout the university campaign.
    CIT only applied after the report unless im mistaken?
    yeah i'm fairly sure Cork IT only applied after the Port report was published.


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    #50
    redroar1942
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭redroar1942


    I have mixed views on WIT offering Arts courses:

    On one hand I can see why they'd do it, try and boost their chances of Uni status by actually providing more of the courses availible in other Uni's. You can teach the classes in large numbers and the subjects are so broad that they appeal to most.

    On the other hand when we did a recent survey of Art's students 71% of them said they accepted the course because (a) they could'nt get the points for anything else or (b) did'nt know what they wanted (or both). My point being that the entry level points in IT's are lower then Uni's so to have any sort of credibility for an IT Arts course you going to have to have similar enrty points to Uni's i.e mid 300's. If you dont then you end up with the dregs, many of whom drop out.
    Surely the students would be better off doing a course they actually thought about before hand and there are a lot of decent courses in WIT for similar points. The alternative being you raise the entry level on everything else but cut out a lot would be students in doing so. Secondary school students often dont have a clue what they want to do and sometimes fewer options is better.

    I'm not being eltitist as I'm sure many students would see WIT as a viable alternative to UL,UCC etc but you may isolate some of the traditional student base if you were to raise points across the board.

    On a footnote Arts is great for business 58% of arts grads stayed for another year and 39% for another year after that. :)


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    #51
    Elle Victorine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Elle Victorine


    Sully wrote: »
    A booklet is never provided IIRC. You are usually given a quick tour of the college and some information on your course. Some sort of talk and a presentation also. I think the problem mainly this year was 1st years were told very late about registration and induction. Not sure what other issues (bar the newer courses having **** all to do) they had.


    Yeah we had that this year. We weren't even sent an email about registration...my registration was open earlier then anyone else I knew in my course. Was mental. Well the booklet would probably be handier to be honest. Found it a great help on campus....granted it's a bit bigger here the only problem was you were left to figure out everything off campus....good luck like!


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    #52
    brendansmith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    Psychedelic wrote: »
    I don't understand why everyone has to park at the college, can people not avail of public transport?


    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.

    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!


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    #53
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    brendansmith wrote: »
    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.

    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!

    Not everybody surrounding the college are "rough" or are waiting to "knife" people. :rolleyes:

    I recall you objecting to people generalising about Waterpark, be careful - your doing the exact same about WIT.


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    #54
    luvlylady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭luvlylady


    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.

    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!

    Are you for real?


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    #55
    chickenhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭chickenhawk


    brendansmith wrote: »
    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.

    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!

    The area has problems alright but you are unlikely to get attacked. I moved down to waterford recently and I live near ballybeg and near the travellers camp. I have never had a bad word spoken to me even at three in the morning when we sometimes walk home from town.

    Same rules apply as any other place. Keep your head up and don't look at anyone directly but be aware whats around you.


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    #56
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Sir Baralot wrote: »
    I am currently in UL and I'm here because my course wasn't offered in WIT.
    The amount of money that my parents are paying weekly to keep me up here is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

    Coming from a financial point of view and nothing else, I do believe that WIT should be aiming for University status because I think it's unfair that there is a University located in every part of the country with the exception of the South-East.

    We are the only people that are forced to spend a lot of money to go to University and that, I think, is definately most unfair.

    Great points. My own daughter was having an audition at UL last year and we spoke to a girl from Galway who was also auditioning. Two Unis in the space of 50 miles? And ONE can't be provided for the SE - placing a huge financial burden on parents in this region.


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    #57
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    brendansmith wrote: »
    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.

    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!

    1. There are students who live within walking distance (living in Lismore Park) DRIVING to college each day.:rolleyes:

    2. Generalising doesn't even cover that comment. Many attacks in Waterford have been carried out in so-called 'respectable' areas.


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    #58
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,855 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    brendansmith wrote: »
    The college is slap bang up beside the roughest area in the southeast bar none.
    Thats your opinion and its obviously an opinion that is not shared by others contributing to this thread.

    brendansmith wrote: »
    Hanging around waiting for the miserable excuse for public transport could easily get you knifed!
    Thats a bit uncalled for. Inflammatory remarks like that wont be tolerated on this forum.

    Infraction given and I trust there will be no repeat.


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    #59
    brendansmith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    Sully wrote: »
    Not everybody surrounding the college are "rough" or are waiting to "knife" people. :rolleyes:

    I recall you objecting to people generalising about Waterpark, be careful - your doing the exact same about WIT.
    luvlylady wrote: »
    Are you for real?
    chickenhawk wrote: »
    The area has problems alright but you are unlikely to get attacked. I moved down to waterford recently and I live near ballybeg and near the travellers camp. I have never had a bad word spoken to me even at three in the morning when we sometimes walk home from town.

    Same rules apply as any other place. Keep your head up and don't look at anyone directly but be aware whats around you.
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    1. There are students who live within walking distance (living in Lismore Park) DRIVING to college each day.:rolleyes:

    2. Generalising doesn't even cover that comment. Many attacks in Waterford have been carried out in so-called 'respectable' areas.
    muffler wrote: »
    Thats your opinion and its obviously an opinion that is not shared by others contributing to this thread.


    Thats a bit uncalled for. Inflammatory remarks like that wont be tolerated on this forum.

    Infraction given and I trust there will be no repeat.


    Sorry guys, forgot i wasnt in afterhours with that comment.


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    #60
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,855 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Right so. We can leave that now and get on with discussing the topic at hand.


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    #61
    Elle Victorine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Elle Victorine


    Actually to be honest I'd find it a lot handier if we did have one in Waterford for when the fees get reintroduced...And they will. Least if we're paying five grand for a course we won't have to pay the additional 10 living expences.:rolleyes:


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