Waterford University discussion

Survey for the naming of the TUSE, no need to be current of past student to fill in

Nice comment section at the end to air any concerns etc...

https://www.tuse.ie/survey/

Meanwhile in Mayo: https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/03/07/key-report-on-future-of-mayo-gmit-campus-to-be-published-later-this-month/

"The key objective of this group was to develop a plan to develop a sustainable future for the Mayo Campus arising from concerns about the financial viability of the campus."

I hope the political plans for Wexford have a well-thought-through business case or this is where they will be in a few year's time.

914 wrote: »

Kilkenny Councillor asking why not full University, good to see

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/03/08/why-not-a-full-university-asks-kilkenny-councillor/

Why not a full university? Christ they are unbelievable!

Maybe these Wexford and Kilkenny politicians might finally be starting to see that the most viable and sensible option is just to upgrade WIT to full university status. I can live in hope can’t I.

invara wrote: »

Very interesting interview for all the TU watchers out there... on the player now from the start of the show, just after 10am.

It speaks for itself. The TU might be very bad news for Waterford- there is no clarity on funding or the HQ coming; given the recent political past (hospital and ETB...), and Government is going to blame people asking for such clarification if the TU goes off the rails.

I thought TU situation was bad and then I had a socially distanced chat with a friend I hadn't seen in ages at the weekend. He is a manager of a dept in WIT for the last 20 years and has been involved extensively in the TU working groups. He said the Carlow staff he works with are great and work well together the Carlow upper management are a real issue.
He feels they have had a plan going back to 2015 to come in hard and dominate and also take advantage of a number of weak characters on the WIT executive to push the Carlow agenda on every decision.

WIT has been a large flat model organization for years where management in an area is trusted to make decisions and manage their own staff. Carlow is the opposite with micromanagement from the top and every decision has to be signed off by the top brass . That's the model the TU working groups are following and he thinks that's how the TU will end up been organised with central control of every aspect of the organisation as that's what Carlow wants.

So he is a manager in quite a technical area and he has 30 years experience working in industry and in WIT. He makes his own purchasing decisions , runs his own budgets and manages a large number of staff. Now he has his Itcarlow Group lead questioning his knowledge even though he have no idea what he is talking about as they an a jumped up academic who has never worked in the real world. But in the ITcarlow structure that person has the final say .
He says there is massive disillusionment amongst the management group and he says they are beginning to think if you are WIT manager thats good at your job Carlow see you as a threat and actively try to sideline you . It sounds terrible and he is thinking of moving on if things continue the way they are going . I found the whole conversation so depressing , we are not only losing the Waterford name with the TU but it looks like we are going to lose the heart and soul of WIT as well

914 wrote: »

Staff have the chance to end this by voting against it at the next vote. Unfortunately the last vote was 90 something percent in favour

I cant see that making any difference , MTU was pushed through without union agreement

Its a shame Matt Shanahan didn't take the firm decision to call for rejection of TUSE without clarification.

Malcolm Byrnes interview was just scaremongering, look Waterford will not be a university in 2022 if this is rejected because of Matt. FF or FG will have to find a "new game" in town because they need seats in Waterford if they want to move away from a 3 way party dysfunctional Goverment if it lasts to 2025.

Bards wrote: »

SF is backing the wrong horse here... We need an alternative option... In my opinion this option should be a full University for Waterford and upgrade Carlow to TU... The other 4 cities have both a full University and a TU so it's not like we are looking for more than the other 4

Its hard to trust Cullinane's commitment. Says the right things but only after pushed. Unless Mary Loo is raising issues at leader questions SF's commitment isn't worth anything.


Nothing will change if this is rejected in terms of WITs current status.

https://beat102103.com/news/significant-wexford-campus-for-south-east-tech-university/
A campus for every town in the south east. University in waterford diluted down to cabbage water.

Being led down the garden path yet again. Trying to strong arm us now with talk of ‘no Plan B’, imaginary funding and Waterford not being a ‘university’ city if it’s rejected.

Just like Tralee, Athlone, Letterkenny, Castlebar, Sligo, Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow will be ‘university towns’ when their applications go through? Gimme a break. That’s the company they’re putting Waterford in. Not with Galway, Limerick, Cork or Dublin, get down there with the rest of em and fight for the scraps like a good lamb.

Malcolm Byrne on WLR then trying to pin all the uproar on Matt Shanahan, as if he’s the only one that can smell the stink of bullsh*t from a mile away. Hope we tell them to stuff their half measure university, but I fear it’s too late now. People won’t realise what’s happened until they start taking faculties out of WIT and divvying them up across the SE.

If Cullinane had a backbone he’d be getting Mary Lou to come out and state the case for an independent University of Waterford. Representatives too docile again. Party over county again.

invara wrote: »

So the projects I think we know about:

WIT PPP Engineering Building ~€50m 12k Sqm should be signed in Q1 2020 (so 20 days there, along with the 2nd Cath lab tender)
Carlow PPP Health Science Building ~€25m 6k Sqm (in the same bundle as WIT building, so should be signed in 20 days)
Carlow (currently out to tender) Corporate Support Services Building ~€20 5k Sqm (working of the same ratio of price to Sqm as the PPPs)
Wexford campus €10 buy, €10m build (very much a rumour here)

Approx €30m with no visibility, could that be the Crystal site budget?

Basically projects planned since 09 such as WITS engineering will be hailed as great success and investment in the new TU!

No plan B? Put the €150 million into and get it to University level, simply really

914 wrote: »

Basically projects planned since 09 such as WITS engineering will be hailed as great success and investment in the new TU!

No plan B? Put the €150 million into and get it to University level, simply really

Classic government tactic, announce existing developments as new investments. I remember someone saying here before that the Engineering building in WIT has been announced as a new development 4 times since 2011. 10 years later it still hasn't gone to tender and it wont be finished till god knows when.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The sudden announcement makes you wonder are the Government getting a little concerned Aprils application is not a certainty.

Surly M Byrne would have referenced this announcement yesterday during the interview.

He announced today that the application is expected on 28th April

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Like the funding the date is old news.

He also stated "there is no plan B if this is rejected" obviously looking to put the ****s up people, perhaps he has some fear of the application not being made.

"If rejected" is that a shot fired to WIT and IT Carlow staff as the only way it can be rejected is by either institute pulling the plug and listening to both president's that sounds fairly unlikely.

For anyone not on twitter

Technological University of the South East 📚

Southeast @OireachtasNews met @SimonHarrisTD & Chairs and Presidents of @waterfordit and @itcarlow . Positive meeting

#TUSE Application lodges 28th April

Plans for #Wexford campus and bigger footprint for the #Waterford campus
1/2

Plan is new university will come into being on 1st January, 2022

About €150m in new capital investment is already committed to the university across the region. More will be sought and @SimonHarrisTD positive.

There is no ‘Plan B’ if this is rejected
2/2

Simon Harris on Southeast radio again this morning going on about the Wexford campus ,thats the third time in a last month and he still wont come on WLR.

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

€150m split 3 ways; €50m per "site" - you wouldnt build a decent sized school for it.

Waterford will get proportionally less then any other "stakeholder" in the process 8,000 odd FT strudents vs 5,000 in Carlow, making wexford the biggest winners here.

Along with the above, "re gifting" the schools of engineering and business to WIT as new investment when in actual fact govt have been holding it back for over a decade.

This fella must be clairvoyant - he has nailed this from the get go https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/blog-2/

This TUSE changes nothing, the stakeholders in this are selling out Waterford - from the politicians (bar shanahan), the FUSE - another failed quango full of same old tired faces right up to the chamber of commerce. TUSE cant go ahead with out WIT - we hold the aces here and are trying to be strong armed into a bad deal - let the unions and college vote against this now and then lets see the colour of the govts money. God knows there will be huge support locally - if you know anyone in WIT get them to vote against this siht show.

The whole thing makes me laugh, when we talk about Waterford we MUST talk about the South East and think regionally when it comes to WIT everyone wants a piece of the pie, that is neatly carved up and served by our own people and sold to us as progress.

However when it comes to Waterford issues like 24/7 and the border expansion Waterford is only thinking of itself and can get no support from around the region.

How any uneducated imbecile can think that making every town in Ireland a University town is a positive thing is beyond me - Thurles, Clonmel, Wexford Carlow, Letterkenny, Sligo, Mountbellow, Letterfrack, Athlone & now Waterford will join this illustrious list of University Towns for 2021.

Special thanks to John Cummins and FG for making this happen - I hope people remember it when it comes to election time.

Everything you say is true, but that wont stop the system from driving over us. We do not have the political muscle or regional support to move the needle on this, hence David Cullinane is on the same side as the government. He reckons he will win even if the government does us over," it's their fault" and if its a success," I was for it." Maybe its just a realisation that we have to take what's going and try to make the best of it? We have tried everything else, bar open revolution. When crumbs are on offer, take the crumbs?

The speech by Cullinane and reply by Simon Harris in Dail yesterday are instructive. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2021-03-10/15/

914 wrote: »

Brendan howlin on SE radio yesterday from 21.30 minutes, only about 2 minutes or so, the university must be a multi campus!

Edit forgot to add the link

https://www.southeastradio.ie/on-demand/

It is actually just pathetic from these Kilkenny and Wexford politicians. Why did they not campaign for an IT or university for themselves since the 1930’s? No when they saw WIT was on the verge of becoming a university they blocked it and said nothing is going to happen unless the gain is put in their little towns. I hope the staff in WIT will have the good sense to vote against this TUSE crap.

BBM77 wrote: »

It is actually just pathetic from these Kilkenny and Wexford politicians. Why did they not campaign for an IT or university for themselves since the 1930’s? No when they saw WIT was on the verge of becoming a university they blocked it and said nothing is going to happen unless the gain is put in their little towns. I hope the staff in WIT will have the good sense to vote against this TUSE crap.

Right in one! If the WIT staff accept this they must be cracked.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Led by donkeys. I've not heard a peep from Willie Donnelly.

He is retiring in the summer , I bet he cant wait to get out the door

914 wrote: »

How does that work, if TU is applied is the position left vacant or temporary filled till Jan 2022.

Or is it a case we could have a new president who will rip up any TU plans

I heard he is up for retirement in the summer but if the TU approved and going ahead in the 1st of January 2022 he will stay on in a holding role till that date . At that point a new head of campus for Waterford will have to be appointed as that's what's happened to ex presidents who stepped down in the MTU and TUD mergers

azimuth17 wrote: »

What's the betting if he goes that head of Carlow IT will be appointed head of WIT pro tem until a new TUSE president is appointed? That happened before AFAIK. A board of four will be appointed by Simon Harris on 1st January if TUSE goes ahead. With Donnelly gone, anything could happen, any decision could be made about HQ, courses or governance without ANY Waterford voice even being heard, I must be living in an alternative universe, because the possibility of real damage to WIT is so obvious as to be sick making yet our Oireachtas members, John Cummins, David Cullinane and Marc O'Cathasaigh in particular are cheerleading the merger. Ms Butler is silent.

That could happen but I think the new president of the TU has to be appointed before the merger takes place. That's what happened in the MTU and TUD mergers and the new presidents were outsiders brought in from the Irish and UK university sector. Personally it think the only chance of this merger succeeding is an outside president coming in with no skin in the game who honestly recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of both organisations. If that is the case the HQ will be in Waterford and Waterford will be the leading campus

azimuth17 wrote: »

You may be right, as Sec 56 of the 2018 TU Act says. Minister cab also apparently appoint one of the existing IoT presidents to head the TUSE if he wishes although that was not done in MTU of TUD.

56. (1) The Minister, at any time before the day appointed by order under section 36 , may designate a person to be appointed to be the first president of the technological university.

(2) If, immediately before the day appointed by order under section 36 a person stands designated by the Minister under subsection (1), the technological university shall appoint that person to be the first president with effect from the day appointed by order under section 36 .

(3) A person standing designated under subsection (1) who stood appointed immediately before his or her appointment as president of the technological university under subsection (2), as Director or, as the case may be, president of a dissolved body (in this section referred to as the “first appointment”) shall hold office as the first president of the technological university for such term as the Minister may direct when designating that person under subsection (1) being—

(a) the unexpired term of the first appointment, or

(b) a period longer than the unexpired term which does not exceed 10 years.

I don't think even this government stupid enough to appoint the ITCarlow president as TU president by dictate .It would create war in Waterford and is politically unpalatable. But anyway I have heard the president job advert goes out nationally and internationally in the Summer with the TU president appointed in the Autumn

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing of interest but start at 4 minutes.

https://kclr96fm.com/kilkenny-unlikely-to-have-a-local-campus-as-part-of-the-new-technological-university-for-the-south-east/

I think if you were from Kilkenny you would be fairly pissed, talks of Clonmel and Thurles becoming "University" towns along with Carlow and Wexford.

Maybe they were hedging their bets on the HQ, why wexford over Kilkenny, is Kilkenny to close to Waterford and Carlow although wexford isn't much further.

Maybe it's playing for votes in Wexford