Waterford University discussion

imacman · 24-02-2021 10:40am

JimWinters wrote: »

AFAIK, CIT’s governing body does not have politicians or ETB members from outside Cork. IT Tralee is full of Kerry people with the exception of two members from Limerick/Clare ETB. WIT and IT Carlow should not have so much influence from Wexford & Kilkenny on their governing bodies.

TUSEI should only have representation from Carlow & Waterford on the Board of Governors. The MTU board should provide precedence on the makeup of the board. If we are to have regional representation in TUSEI then Waterford should be represented on the MTU board.

If we’re going to have Wexford and Kilkenny campuses of TUSEI then we should also have a Waterford campus of MTU. If the TUSEI HQ goes to Kilkenny for reasons of independence etc. Then why not have the MTU HQ in Waterford?

If we have the votes of the board of governors scattered across the region then Waterford won’t stand a chance and will likely be outvoted by Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford...

The rules have to be the same across the TUs!

I think the whole Kilkenny HQ is dead in the water , the backlash from the suggestion of it has been really strong and it is politically unpalatable for the government for antagonize Waterford again and go against their own Ireland 2040 plan.

Also the whole idea that councilors and local reps on the governing body will have a vote and a final say on the HQ is not accurate .The governing bodies are political appointments and always have taken their instructions on major decisions from the government and Dept of Education.

azimuth17 · 24-02-2021 11:12am

imacman wrote: »

I think the whole Kilkenny HQ is dead in the water , the backlash from the suggestion of it has been really strong and it is politically unpalatable for the government for antagonize Waterford again and go against their own Ireland 2040 plan.

Also the whole idea that councilors and local reps on the governing body will have a vote and a final say on the HQ is not accurate .The governing bodies are political appointments and always have taken their instructions on major decisions from the government and Dept of Education.

Section 12 of Technological University Act 2018 is informative.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/3/section/12/enacted/en/html#sec12

JimWinters · 24-02-2021 11:12am

imacman wrote: »

Also the whole idea that councilors and local reps on the governing body will have a vote and a final say on the HQ is not accurate .The governing bodies are political appointments and always have taken their instructions on major decisions from the government and Dept of Education.

The governing body will be involved in decisions on the location of courses & the development of satellite campuses. The government has said they will decide the location of the HQ. Once January rolls around, WIT ceases to exist and they can do whatever they want, palatable or otherwise. If Waterford are outvoted by the political appointees from other counties we lose control.

My point above is that there was little regional involvement in the CIT governing body and the same will likely be true of the MTU board of governors. Why should TUSEI be different?

imacman · 24-02-2021 11:27am

JimWinters wrote: »

The governing body will be involved in decisions on the location of courses & the development of satellite campuses. The government has said they will decide the location of the HQ. Once January rolls around, WIT ceases to exist and they can do whatever they want, palatable or otherwise. If Waterford are outvoted by the political appointees from other counties we lose control.

My point above is that there was little regional involvement in the CIT governing body and the same will likely be true of the MTU board of governors. Why should TUSEI be different?

That is how it looks on the face of it , but the current governing body WIT and other ITs have always taken their instructions on major decisions from the dept of education. That's the reason we are in this merger in the first place and why they didn't walk away after all the skullduggery in 2015. They were told that the merger was going to happen they had to support it .
If the government want the HQ in Waterford and I think the realpolitik of the situation points in that direction the governing body of the TU will not be able to vote to change that no matter who they are. The instruction will come down and they will have to follow it.

Harry Palmr · 24-02-2021 11:49am

WLR right now!

Discussion on unions and such matters which have gone quiet lately.

Memorandum Of Understanding - rejected by Carlow, passed overwhelmingly by WIT

----

Interesting, with all the hoo-har about the HQ and funding etc the fact this hadn't been sorted out and needs to be for the TUSE to be made real has been overlooked. As mentioned in interview they are up against the clock, with this due to be signed off for submission in April and then get the nod in early summer.

24-02-2021 1:30pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

WLR right now!

Discussion on unions and such matters which have gone quiet lately.

Memorandum Of Understanding - rejected by Carlow, passed overwhelmingly by WIT

----

Interesting, with all the hoo-har about the HQ and funding etc the fact this hadn't been sorted out and needs to be for the TUSE to be made real has been overlooked. As mentioned in interview they are up against the clock, with this due to be signed off for submission in April and then get the nod in early summer.

Would have been interesting to hear the personal opinions of the person speaking.

azimuth17 · 24-02-2021 2:57pm

The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/committees/ met yesterday at 16.00. You can see the discussion with Minister Simon Harris and Marc O'Cathasaigh TD and David Cullinane TD from 1.13.30 onwards.

"Funding more important than HQ" says Harris.

Harry Palmr · 24-02-2021 4:07pm

He's correct in that if it were a choice of power or money you'd probably go for the latter but it's a false dilemma in this case (obviously)

edit that url leads to a non existent page

azimuth17 · 24-02-2021 5:25pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

He's correct in that if it were a choice of power or money you'd probably go for the latter but it's a false dilemma in this case (obviously)

edit that url leads to a non existent page

Thanks Harry, URL amended.

spaceCreated · 24-02-2021 7:34pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/committees/ met yesterday at 16.00. You can see the discussion with Minister Simon Harris and Marc O'Cathasaigh TD and David Cullinane TD from 1.13.30 onwards.

"Funding more important than HQ" says Harris.

And with a commitment on neither everyone who is paying attention is rightly concerned

SeanieW1977 · 24-02-2021 10:37pm

I think it’s important we - as waterford people put a stake in the ground to define, what is acceptable and what isn’t for Waterford, for me;

- expansion of existing footprint to bring over 10k FT students in City - New schools of engineering (12mill) & business (9mill) (as previously committed to) but funding reneged upon.

- establishment and funding of fully resourced HQ (20 mil)

- €75m + to allow expand carriganore make up for funding gaps of last decade

Grossly those figures would amount to €120 mill.

Anything less then that is a gross failure in delivery regardless of spin.

Furthermore the funding needs to be straight up, not a million a year for next 120 years. This is absolutely critical.

Less anyone say that’s not possible or asking too much please note - Dublin TU got in excess of €1 billion (Grangegorman campus), Munster TU got north €200 mil since inception.

BBM77 · 25-02-2021 5:01pm

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

I think it’s important we - as waterford people put a stake in the ground to define, what is acceptable and what isn’t for Waterford, for me;

- expansion of existing footprint to bring over 10k FT students in City - New schools of engineering (12mill) & business (9mill) (as previously committed to) but funding reneged upon.

- establishment and funding of fully resourced HQ (20 mil)

- €75m + to allow expand carriganore make up for funding gaps of last decade

Grossly those figures would amount to €120 mill.

Anything less then that is a gross failure in delivery regardless of spin.

Furthermore the funding needs to be straight up, not a million a year for next 120 years. This is absolutely critical.

Less anyone say that’s not possible or asking too much please note - Dublin TU got in excess of €1 billion (Grangegorman campus), Munster TU got north €200 mil since inception.

That is what really bugged me about the Waterford Chamber article I posted earlier in the week. They were basically saying Waterford should accept different treatment than the other regional cities. It’s BS, they should be saying if it is not the same as the other regional cities we are not supporting it, simple as that.

invara · 02-03-2021 11:30am

Significant statement from around a third of Waterford Councillors this morning on TUSE. Carried in News and Star, Munster and Damian Tiernan (in around 15 mins.....at 10.45 am Tuesday).

The basic message was the merger should not go ahead until the Govt offers clarity on funding and HQ issues. Given runaway expectations across the region for the TUSE- HQs, campus etc.... someone is going to get shafted at the back end of this.

Harry Palmr · 02-03-2021 11:59am

Hmm, Roche said nothing wrong but it's notable that this "red line" is very much split along party lines - the government party reps are not willing to break rank.

azimuth17 · 02-03-2021 2:29pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hmm, Roche said nothing wrong but it's notable that this "red line" is very much split along party lines - the government party reps are not willing to break rank.

And Sinn Fein now allied with government parties. Hard to see the TUSE process ending well for Waterford.

Bards · 02-03-2021 9:20pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

And Sinn Fein now allied with government parties. Hard to see the TUSE process ending well for Waterford.

SF is backing the wrong horse here... We need an alternative option... In my opinion this option should be a full University for Waterford and upgrade Carlow to TU... The other 4 cities have both a full University and a TU so it's not like we are looking for more than the other 4

02-03-2021 10:42pm

Bards wrote: »

SF is backing the wrong horse here... We need an alternative option... In my opinion this option should be a full University for Waterford and upgrade Carlow to TU... The other 4 cities have both a full University and a TU so it's not like we are looking for more than the other 4

Agree. A TU is not going to be able to go toe to toe with UCC, UL, NUIG...... if it is able to go toe to toe so would every other TU as they would be looking for the same level of funding.

Therefore we are still going to see what they call the brain drain.

Increasing Waterford's TU campus capacity by 5k or so will be sold as the success of the TU, where as in fact increase WIT by 5k and remaining a IoT you would most likely fill the extra capacity already.

Population is continuing to rise in the country so by increasing capacity of the TU is only keeping up with population trends, leaving both as IoTs and increasing capacity and you would have the same output.

You are fully right if any Government was serious about addressing the SE issues, we would see Waterford progress as a full Uni, Carlow upgraded to TU, then we are in a position to complete with other regions.

At least leaving WIT go it alone as a TU keeps the door open for fully uni in future.

The higher education strategy is only up to 2030 so most likely come 2030 we will see changes to TU legislation, maybe this is why everyone is so adamant to get to the TU over the line, ensuring they are preventing WIT to ever go it alone.

Christy Browne · 03-03-2021 2:45pm

https://twitter.com/maryroche/status/1366679673921544194
This thread will be of interest here, with input from three of our TD's in the replies (guess who's missing)

Harry Palmr · 03-03-2021 6:11pm

There's more chance of Simon Harris descending onto John Roberts Square in a balloon full of cash and legally binding documents than Mary Butler engaging with the public on twitter about anything at all.

SeanieW1977 · 04-03-2021 5:16pm

Thomas Phelan of labour spoke well on WLR earlier, following up on the the statement labour released with the independent councillors. All but saying if there isnt something proper here for WIT they should pull out and go their own steam.

Leo was on SE radio yesterday assuring the good people of wexford the immenent good news.

How come leo or simon harris or any of them wont come onto local radio or media down here? Instead we are left with cummins doing their bidding?

Any word on the fuse campaign group? They were all go there a few weeks ago buying "pigs in pokes" but bar offering to be a mouth piece for matt shanahan there has been no word of them since? A bit like the 24/7 platform matt used to get elected!

Harry Palmr · 04-03-2021 5:30pm

Fuse were talking with various parties a week or two ago.

Harris is scared to go on air here.

Bards · 04-03-2021 6:03pm

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Leo was on SE radio yesterday assuring the good people of wexford the immenent good news.
!

.... Of Wexford Technology University no doubt

04-03-2021 7:32pm

Survey for the naming of the TUSE, no need to be current of past student to fill in

Nice comment section at the end to air any concerns etc...

https://www.tuse.ie/survey/

04-03-2021 7:37pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Fuse were talking with various parties a week or two ago.

Harris is scared to go on air here.

Would be interesting to see the output from this "productive meeting" with out political representatives.

If funding, HQ is not set in stone is it a pull the plug job? Was it a case the all agreed on what needs to happen but no formal standing on it.

Since this meeting things have been pretty quiet. Last post my fuse was 25th feb

Harry Palmr · 04-03-2021 8:27pm

Anyone got a sub?

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/if-harris-has-his-way-irish-universities-will-surrender-their-valuable-independence-40156436.html

Edit some details here
http://www.universitytimes.ie/2021/03/university-responses-to-govts-revamp-of-college-leadership-due-on-friday/

Looks like Harris is determined to his mark

imacman · 04-03-2021 11:04pm

914 wrote: »

Survey for the naming of the TUSE, no need to be current of past student to fill in

Nice comment section at the end to air any concerns etc...

https://www.tuse.ie/survey/

I heard a while back that the TUSE website was built by Carlow and WIT staff have no access to it . I think the descriptions of both colleges on the homepage confirm this

Institute of Technology Carlow is one of Ireland’s most progressive and innovative multi-campus higher education providers with a distinguished 50-year history of learner-centred higher education and research, collaborating with prominent national and international civic, academic and industry partners and leading transformational socioeconomic development.

Waterford Institute of Technology (WIT) is a university-level institution in the South-East of Ireland. Offering tuition and research programmes in various areas from Higher Certificate, Degree to PhD.

spaceCreated · 06-03-2021 2:45pm

Any developments on this? Thought with Varadkar's statement they would be making moves to buy the crystal site

06-03-2021 8:26pm

spaceCreated wrote: »

Any developments on this? Thought with Varadkar's statement they would be making moves to buy the crystal site

Is it possible to buy land that's not for sale? CPO maybe.

The last time I checked Noel Frisby owns the crystal site and it's not presently for sale so how do the government get their hands on it.

Frisby bought it for 3 million in 2012, small money and clear to see the government of the time had no interest in investing in WIT now all of a sudden investing in WIT is the be all and end all.

More like carrot dangling to get the people on side with the TU.

Not a mention of the crystal site until people began to ask questions about the TU, now it's gone quiet again.

It's like all the promises made to UHW to join the south south west group, promised the moon and the stars and the mortuary was only constructed by people of the hospital coming out public stating of the awful condition's.

invara · 08-03-2021 11:00am

Meanwhile in Mayo: https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/03/07/key-report-on-future-of-mayo-gmit-campus-to-be-published-later-this-month/

"The key objective of this group was to develop a plan to develop a sustainable future for the Mayo Campus arising from concerns about the financial viability of the campus."

I hope the political plans for Wexford have a well-thought-through business case or this is where they will be in a few year's time.

08-03-2021 9:19pm

Kilkenny Councillor asking why not full University, good to see

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/03/08/why-not-a-full-university-asks-kilkenny-councillor/

Waterford University discussion

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