Changes in the GAA - super thread

The Liam McCarthy should be an open draw. It makes a potential expansion to 11 or 12 teams a lot easier. The Provincials should be a pre-season competition.

Example for 11 teams

Group Stage

Group A

Limerick (SF)
Kilkenny (QF)
Clare (QF)
Laois
Dublin
Carlow (Relegation Final)

Group B

Tipperary (SF)
Wexford (QF)
Galway (QF)
Cork
Waterford (Relegation Final)

Relegation Final

Carlow v Waterford

QFs

Kilkenny v Galway
Wexford v Clare

SFs

Tipperary v Galway
Limerick v Wexford

Final

Tipperary v Limerick

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/10/19/news/gaa-task-force-plans-include-splitting-season-and-rebalancing-provinces-1742913/

Wild proposal incoming. I think we should start treating counties like national sides in soccer and rugby. Scrap the League and replace it with a three tier championship.

Tier 1: 12 teams

Tier 2: 12 teams

Tier 3: 8 teams

Each tier has a double round-robin group stage followed by a knockout round. Tier 3 could be a triple round-robin or have cross group games to increase the number of games. Another option is to invite the British teams over and have three tiers of 12.

Tiers 1 and 2 have a minimum of 10 games and a maximum of 13 games. Tier 3 has a minimum of 6 games and a maximum of 8.

This format are can be played during the spring/summer and leave a lot more time for clubs. It also gives every county something to play for. The provincials could be played before or alongside the championship. The GAA could also explore other types of pre-season competitions. Perhaps we could bring back the Railway Cup.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

people assume that but we dont know for sure. But if you put in some form of inventive for winning provincial title it would be worth it. Especially for counties who wont necessarily be at all Ireland semi final stage often.

What form of incentive? You already get a spot in the Super 8s if you win the provincials now.

GreenandRed wrote: »

There will always be plenty of interest in provincial championships. Local bragging rights and the chance for silverware. Provincial boards would find it hard to survive without cash from provincial championships. It's not extra time in the football calendar anyways as the provincial championships are running for years. Just have them earlier in the summer and schedule them to finish by a certain date. The provincial championships route to the All Ireland championships give an unfair advantage to Connacht and Munster teams because they play less games to win their province. An open draw All Ireland would stop that.

I have no faith in it happening. Under Horan's plans for an Elite Championship and a Small Ireland Championship there are many GAA top brass ready to rake in the cash and delighted to see kids in so-called weaker counties wearing elite county jersies every summer.

There will be plenty of interest in Ulster and Connacht among the big three counties but Leinster and Munster are dying. An open draw All-Ireland solves the issue of a lopsided qualification system but doesn't address the overall issue. Most teams are not capable of winning Sam which is why we are moving towards a tiered championship. Horan's proposal is rubbish. They should have just gone with 2 tiers of 16 initially based on the League with 4 groups of 4 in each tier. The top two teams in each group advance to the quarter-finals.

GreenandRed wrote: »

The overall issue is that there is a big standards gap between strongest and weakest and it's more pronounced in Leinster and Munster with Dublin and Kerry traditionally dominant. Cork will be back though. A tiered system will only make the standards gap even wider as so-called weaker counties won't have the chance to test themselves against stronger opposition. How else can they improve if they keep playing a weaker standard of football while the elite play elite football?

Horan's one liner to that is promotion to Tier One. Virtually no county that gets promoted will last long in Tier One, the same way that Wexford, Tipperary and Fernanagh climbed the lofty heights of All Ireland semi final to tumble back down as they had no resources or support. Wexford, Tipp, Fermanagh and a small few other counties that did well in the qualifiers since 2001 was surely a sign that progress could be made to improve standards everywhere.

Why can't they have a league with 2 counties from each of the current divisions, or run a third competition instead of provincial leagues for weaker counties to try themselves against stronger counties in a National competition? Because they have zero interest in promoting intercounty football outsde the proposed Tier One counties. They should have a Tier Two office in Landsdowne Road as they're surely going to make it easier for the IRFU to find prospective talent amongst the prspective elite athletes who will lose faith in playing for their county in a substandard Small Ireland championship. Nothing at all against rugby by the way. They'd be mad not to check underage and intercounty players, many of who can see college teammates playing a higher standard in their counties and shake their heads at the way Horan and his buddies have kicked them further down the ladder.

This is where the divisional model comes into play. I think a lot of counties would improve if they gave intermediate and junior a chance to prove themselves at the top level. People talk about the conveyor belt in Kerry but one of the keys to their success is their divisions. They have nurtured talent at all levels.

It's not just football. The weaker counties in hurling should look at combining their leagues. For example, Derry/Donegal/Fermanagh/Tyrone and Leitrim/Mayo/Roscommon/Sligo.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So the lesser counties would take it more seriously as a chance to win silverware, then fine, good for them but the AI contenders arent going to, it makes no sense.

Lesser counties won't take it seriously either. Why bother playing in a competition with no prize other than a trophy. Take the domestic cups in soccer. Clubs are rewarded with a place in the European competitions if they win it.

GreenandRed wrote: »

And a chance to pit themselves against better teams, playing a different style of football and finding other ways to win rather than stagnating. Winning Europa also brings more qualification to another level competition.

We're left with two choices. Either scrap the provincials or retain them as part of the All-Ireland structure. There's no point in trying to find middle ground.

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Provincial championships are really only working in two provinces,

Leinster was strong enough for a few years but historically for a championship with so many teams, the roll of honour is very lobsided

Agreed. I'd love to keep the provincial championships. I was born and raised in London but some of my fondest memories are attending games in Ulster with my family from Donegal. Ulster is still viable but the others aren't.

A lot of discussion recently about the masters fixtures calendar, and the demands been put on players, in particular U20 players by management of teams like clubs, U20 and senior inter-county, 2nd and 3rd level college teams etc. This has got me thinking, what will an alternative fixtures calendar that would have the backing of club, inter-county players alike. Starting from January 1st 2021 this is what my own Gaa fixture calendar should look like

January - Inter-county training commences for all inter-county teams, both senior, U20 teams. For inter-county that break this rule then penalties ranging from concession of home venues in the championship to fines for county boards are on the agenda.

February - Start the inter-county pre-season competitions no earlier than the first weekend of February. Complete them by the end of the month, if not then the rest of the competitions shall be null and void.

March - club month, where clubs get first choice on inter-county players from March 1st to March 29th inclusive. Play the respective club leagues rather than county championship as the number one priority.

April - Start the inter-county All-Ireland senior hurling and football championships on the 3rd weekend of April. Scrap the leagues for the following formats. So for hurling you have the Munster and Leinster Championships with both having 5 teams in it. The rest of the tiered hurling championships will remain the same like in 2020. In other words the status quo remains like in GAA hurling championship 2020

In football I would replace the provincials with this format. The 4 provincial champions in 2020 along with the All-Ireland winner, if not exempt already will be part of the the main All-Ireland football championship 5 team "group of death". If the All-Ireland winner was a provincial champion, then that place will be taken up by the leading team in the 2020 Division one League. I would have 4 groups of 5 teams in the All-Ireland senior football championship from 2021 onwards. The 2 relegated teams from Division 2 and the bottom 3 teams in Div. 3 along with 7 teams in Division 4 of the 2020 league except for the winner of the Division 4 league who would qualify for the All-Ireland senior championship, will make up the tier 2 championship.

May to August bank holiday weekend - Senior Championship continues in May. For the minor (U17 grade) I would make it a developmental championship, a bit like what's in situ with the likes of the Tony Forrestial, Arrabawn tournaments etc. I don't like the idea of "win at all costs" attitude I've seen with managers and coaches involved in the U17 inter-county management teams, since the inter-county minor grade was changed to U17. These young lads have enough to be worried about re leaving cert exams etc. In mid June once the Leaving Cert is complete I would commence both the U20 provincial inter-county hurling and football championships.

Eligibility for U20 grade would be for players who turned 18 on the 1st of January of this year or later. The championship itself will be run on a knock-out basis, like what's currently in place. While all U20 players will only be allowed to chose one code for the duration of the championship. U20 players cannot play both senior and U20 inter-county championship in their preferred code while a county still involved in both senior and U20 championships. One code, one competition will be the rule there.

July - The top 3 teams in Div 1 of the All-Ireland senior football championship would qualify for the 1/4 finals, along with the winners of Div 2, 3 and 4. The winner of the tier 2 championship (which will be a knock-out championship) will take on the 4th place team in Div 1 to see who will be the final quarter-finalist. These 1/4 finals will be played on the first week of July, with semi-finals a week later with the Sam Maguire winner to be confirmed on the Sunday of the August bank holiday weekend. No replays in any knock-out championship games in both hurling and football. The Liam McCarthy winner will be confirmed on the Saturday of the August bank holiday weekend. I would also play the U20 championship finals to be held as curtain raisers to the respective All-Ireland senior hurling and football finals respectively.

2nd weekend of August to the end of November - Club championships commence in all counties. Any county that sees its inter-county championship end before the August bank holiday extravaganza can certainly begin all club activities before that date. Complete the club championships, both county, provincial and All-Ireland chamionships by the last weekend of November with the finals in Croke Park, in all grades and codes. I would also begin the Sigerson, Fitzgibbon and other third level GAA championships like freshers etc, in the last weekend of September and ending on the October bank holiday weekend, with all third level college GAA competitions finals to be held in Croke Park by that time. I would also dissolve the respective 3rd level GAA league competitions as I believe that is also something that players can do without for player welfare reasons.

December - No GAA activity of any kind. No collective training, no meaningless GAA matches. December should be "free month" for all Gaa players from any GAA activity. Any team that violates this rule, would face explusion from their respective championship or other GAA competition for the following year, 2022

I look forward to what other posters think about this schedule. It would be of huge benefit to club players in particular and I feel that this calendar can form a basis to solve the huge crisis that I mentioned in the above in relation to our great GAA sports.

Intercounty season is too long. Limit the intercounty season to 5 months (March to August). January should be designated a rest month. That leaves us with 6 months exclusively for the clubs.

The League should adopt a format similar to the one which will be used UEFA's Nations League this year. Each division has 8 teams split into 2 groups of 4. Double round-robin so each team gets an equal number of home and away games. The top teams in each group in Division 1 go into the NFL finals. The 1st placed teams in each group in Divisions 2, 3, and 4 are promoted. The 4th placed teams in each group are relegated.

Min no. of games = 6
Max no. of games = 6 (7 for NFL finalists)

The League is then followed by a two tier championship. Each tier has 16 teams split into 4 groups of 4. Each team get a home game and an away game. The other game is played in a neutral venue.

Min no. of games = 3
Max no. of games = 6

Every county gets 9-12 games in the season.

Or retain the current league structure. That would give every team a minimum of 10 games and a max of 13 or 14 games.

The Provincials should be scrapped at senior level but retained for club and underage competitions. The provincial councils should focus solely on development of Gaelic games. Let the GAA worry about running senior intercounty competitions.