Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Leonidas BL · 09-03-2020 6:44pm

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CrankyHaus · 09-03-2020 11:53pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Do the 'European Nations' actually give a damn whether or not we have fast jets capable of escorting Russian aircraft with effectively every right to skirt our airspace? Does it keep them up at night? Does it feature at every NATO summit?

Even the British don't seem to be particularly aggrieved at having to do the heavy lifting. It looks a bit funny to see us pitching for a seat on the UN Security Council but if Saudi Arabia can chair the UN Human Rights Council Advisory Committee then I suppose anything goes.

Gary kk · 21-03-2020 5:51pm

zone 1 wrote: »

let the russians in whats the damage , we cant patrol it , let them off. give them knock at least they can refuel runway is perfect for them.. at least their patrolling it paddy cant 2 casa .......

Might make some money out of it. Sure Vlad is always good for it

jonnybigwallet · 22-03-2020 1:47pm

Well we can forget about fighter jets now I'm afraid. This virus is going to blow such a hole in the economy it's going to take at least 5 to 10 years to recover!

Markcheese · 22-03-2020 3:09pm

I wouldn't worry between the world economy , oil price crash ,and a probable Italian level **** storm in Russia ,I can't see the Russians bothering much in the next few years ...
Unless of course all of the above destabilize Russia so much that they need a good external crisis to keep Vlad in power ..

jonnybigwallet · 30-03-2020 4:18pm

Well now that the nation has had to throw everything bar the kitchen sink at the economy....I think it would be a good idea to look at a more gradual and cheaper approach to the vexed question of kicking the AC into the 21st century with some decent jets. I reckon thst Aero Vodichody L39 NG looks a pretty good proposition at around 12 mill a pop. Succesful upgrade of a well proven design...and I reckon we could get by with 6 in Baldonnel and 4 each in Cork and Galway. Say what ya will..but if this order was placed I reckon the guys in the AC would be well chuffed.

Also of interest today. I see that Angela Merkel has just had the German Air Force One up and running. Shame we didnt manage to get a replacement jet for the retirement Gov't Jet before the auld virus set in.

Leonidas BL · 30-03-2020 4:48pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Well now that the nation has had to throw everything bar the kitchen sink at the economy....I think it would be a good idea to look at a more gradual and cheaper approach to the vexed question of kicking the AC into the 21st century with some decent jets. I reckon thst Aero Vodichody L39 NG looks a pretty good proposition at around 12 mill a pop. Succesful upgrade of a well proven design...and I reckon we could get by with 6 in Baldonnel and 4 each in Cork and Galway. Say what ya will..but if this order was placed I reckon the guys in the AC would be well chuffed.

Also of interest today. I see that Angela Merkel has just had the German Air Force One up and running. Shame we didnt manage to get a replacement jet for the retirement Gov't Jet before the auld virus set in.

I always thought the Scorpion jet from Textron would be a good starter jet. One of its missions is maritime patrol so it would have actual uses as opposed to the L39 which dosent give us anything extra over the PC-9 really! Do ya not think Jonny?

https://scorpion.txtav.com/en/logbook/scorpionjet-logbook-entry?id=74E600B776BC40C7A4C483CD7CA37981

donvito99 · 30-03-2020 5:39pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I always thought the Scorpion jet from Textron would be a good starter jet. One of its missions is maritime patrol so it would have actual uses as opposed to the L39 which dosent give us anything extra over the PC-9 really! Do ya not think Jonny?

https://scorpion.txtav.com/en/logbook/scorpionjet-logbook-entry?id=74E600B776BC40C7A4C483CD7CA37981

If we weren't going to be the first customer, this would be a great aircraft for the AC.

It would allow for maritime patrol to continue in the event of a CASA being deployed in a transport role overseas. It also uses the same engines as the Learjet.

Leonidas BL · 30-03-2020 7:23pm

donvito99 wrote: »

If we weren't going to be the first customer, this would be a great aircraft for the AC.

It would allow for maritime patrol to continue in the event of a CASA being deployed in a transport role overseas. It also uses the same engines as the Learjet.

I would say it wouldn't be the end of the world being the first customer in this aircraft. As you said the engines are from the Learjet, but also the avionics and equipment is also straight off the shelf.

I remember a couple of years ago the F-35 after something like 15 years development, couldn't make it to Farnborough airshow

Anyhoo the Scorpion flew over no bother even though it was only a prototype.

jonnybigwallet · 31-03-2020 7:15am

I suppose if they ever get around to getting some fighter/trainer jets it will be at the cheaper end of the spectrum and could be a toss up between the check Vodochedy, the Scorpion and the Korean Eagle. The latter is the most expensive and can do mach 1.5. Maybe get 8 of a cheaper plane first and follow up with 6 of the pricier jobbies?

jonnybigwallet · 31-03-2020 7:46am

I must admit I like the Scorpion Leo

punchdrunk · 31-03-2020 2:02pm

This is nowhere near feasible, or desirable!

If you knew anyone in the air corps or read about the issues you’d know how absurd this notion is!

Due to government incompetence and a pathetic military budget the air corps are in bad shape

Massive brain drain- nowhere near enough crews for the aircraft it has- huge retention problem

Huge issues around support systems such as air traffic control

Not enough hangar space for expansion
Not enough techs and antiquated work practises that mean 24hr ops are a pipe dream

Lack of radar beyond what the civvies at the airports can offer, the country is practically blind to what’s in our airspace

No longer have finner or gormanstown operational

Struggle to keep even a basic air ambulance service going in daylight hours, mon-fri

The issues are huge, fighter jets are not even on the map in terms of priority!

punchdrunk · 31-03-2020 2:06pm

Heavy lift choppers and cargo transport/logs planes are what’s badly needed

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 31-03-2020 2:33pm

Is there a similar gap in NATO defences like Ireland anywhere else in Europe? I'm thinking Finland and Sweden but they at least have some Air Force even if they aren't in NATO.

Gary kk · 31-03-2020 2:39pm

We are not in nato so its not up to us to bridge any gap in radar or air defense for those countries

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 31-03-2020 2:45pm

Gary kk wrote: »

We are not in nato so its not up to us to bridge any gap in radar or air defense for those countries

I know that, but it is a gap for NATO, and any planning they do has to contend with this.

punchdrunk · 31-03-2020 2:47pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

I know that, but it is a gap for NATO, and any planning they do has to contend with this.

UK still in NATO so not a problem for them

jonnybigwallet · 31-03-2020 2:59pm

Totally agree Punch...up to a point. I'm assuming that the investment in new aircraft will be accompanied by an uplift in expenditure on new hangarage / proper radar / salary reviews and investment in engineering infrastructure. So no disagreement with your points in general, that's a given and is totally essential. By the way...with 4 Pilatus coming through in the supply chain and two brand spanking new CASA C295'S as well, I think that some of your concerns have been addressed!

Larbre34 · 31-03-2020 6:33pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Is there a similar gap in NATO defences like Ireland anywhere else in Europe? I'm thinking Finland and Sweden but they at least have some Air Force even if they aren't in NATO.

Finland has 62 F/A-18 Hornets and 50 odd various trainers

Sweden has 60+ JAS-39 Gripen and 60 odd trainers

Some Air Force indeed. Now its fair enough that Russia is on their doorstep, but I've has said before and will say again, sovereignty is only as strong as the means to enforce it.

jonnybigwallet · 31-03-2020 6:43pm

Bout time we acquired a few aircraft!

roadmaster · 02-04-2020 11:07pm

According to Wikipedia the pc9s are due to be replaced in 2025. It will be interesting to see what they end up with

sparky42 · 02-04-2020 11:17pm

roadmaster wrote: »

According to Wikipedia the pc9s are due to be replaced in 2025. It will be interesting to see what they end up with

Honest bet, that date is going to be shifted well out, be surprised if it's 2030 before we see anything and who knows what will be on the cards at that point.

Gary kk · 02-04-2020 11:17pm

roadmaster wrote: »

According to Wikipedia the pc9s are due to be replaced in 2025. It will be interesting to see what they end up with

Pc10s what else

Larbre34 · 03-04-2020 12:46am

roadmaster wrote: »

According to Wikipedia

Right.

roadmaster · 03-04-2020 12:50pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Honest bet, that date is going to be shifted well out, be surprised if it's 2030 before we see anything and who knows what will be on the cards at that point.

They will probably wait until the wings are about to fall off, I wonder will the operation off 112 cut the expected life of the 139 fleet. But then again they got good value out of the alouttes , Cessna and the casas will be over 30 years in the air when they retire

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 1:53pm

Time to bang in the order now for 14 to 18 jets.

sparky42 · 03-04-2020 3:06pm

roadmaster wrote: »

They will probably wait until the wings are about to fall off, I wonder will the operation off 112 cut the expected life of the 139 fleet. But then again they got good value out of the alouttes , Cessna and the casas will be over 30 years in the air when they retire

I think they are below their planned usage rate anyway at the moment, so so far I don't think the 112 operations will materially affect them. Though of course that depends on the usage for the rest of their lifespan. But yeah given our habit with military equipment, they will be replaced when they simply can't get off the ground anymore.

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 4:57pm

The expert has spoken.

ohnonotgmail · 03-04-2020 5:01pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Time to bang in the order now for 14 to 18 jets.

could be useful to track down people undertaking unnecesssary travel and deal with them

Heraldoffreeent · 03-04-2020 5:15pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

could be useful to track down people undertaking unnecesssary travel and deal with them

Can't, Johnny wants to keep them for the Bray Airshow.

Ultimanemo · 03-04-2020 5:29pm

What you need is few AT-802U, few air superiority jet fighters and few drones like reaper, jet fighters are good in air to air combat, for close air support jet fighters are like driving Ferrari in Rural Ireland, don't tell me we will never need close air support fighters, the world is becoming scary place
For air superiority jet fighters quality is every thing, the best is F-22 but they are not for sale. Typhoon Eurofighter will be the second best choice

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 5:53pm

Interesting point of view...

tuxy · 03-04-2020 6:10pm

Reaper drones and all, sounds great.
When can we expect to see the order placed?

Gary kk · 03-04-2020 6:17pm

tuxy wrote: »

Reaper drones and all, sounds great.
When can we expect to see the order placed?

Tomorrow after evening tea

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 6:42pm

Get a move on ffs!

Psychlops · 03-04-2020 10:20pm

Ultimanemo wrote: »

What you need is few AT-802U, few air superiority jet fighters and few drones like reaper, jet fighters are good in air to air combat, for close air support jet fighters are like driving Ferrari in Rural Ireland, don't tell me we will never need close air support fighters, the world is becoming scary place
For air superiority jet fighters quality is every thing, the best is F-22 but they are not for sale. Typhoon Eurofighter will be the second best choice

Go have a look at Austria before you even mention the word Typhoon again.

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 10:34pm

That AT 802 U is a discusting and primitive looking piece of sh*te. I reckon the guys out in Baldonnel would die of shame if they had to fly around in them yokes. That belongs in the air force of ougabougoland!

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 10:36pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

That AT 802 U is a discusting and primitive looking piece of sh*te. I reckon the guys out in Baldonnel would die of shame if they had to fly around in them yokes. That belongs in the air force of ougabougoland!

So its all about looks then?

ohnonotgmail · 03-04-2020 10:39pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

So its all about looks then?

its not but what do we want with glorified cropdusters that cant do anything we cant do with the PC-9s?

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 10:42pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

its not but what do we want with glorified cropdusters that cant do anything we cant do with the PC-9s?

I never said I wanted them! I just asked Jonny if it was all about looks...

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 10:44pm

Its not all about looks its about aerodynamics etc and that yoke looks like a flying brick. Anyways...If you were buying a car would you buy one that looks like that or would you go for (say) a Honda Civic?

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 10:46pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Its not all about looks its about aerodynamics etc and that yoke looks like a flying brick. Anyways...If you were buying a car would you buy one that looks like that or would you go for (say) a Honda Civic?

Well if it was a tool to do a job I wouldn't give a fork how it looks as long as it did the job. Im sure the Air Tractor is good at what it does.

tuxy · 03-04-2020 10:47pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Its not all about looks its about aerodynamics etc and that yoke looks like a flying brick. Anyways...If you were buying a car would you buy one that looks like that or would you go for (say) a Honda Civic?

Then they should have gone with more attractive APC than the Mowag :mad:

ohnonotgmail · 03-04-2020 10:47pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Well if it was a tool to do a job I wouldn't give a fork how it looks as long as it did the job. Im sure the Air Tractor is good at what it does.

unfortunately what it does is of absolutely no use to us

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 10:49pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

unfortunately what it does is of absolutely no use to us

And again I never said we should get them.

ohnonotgmail · 03-04-2020 10:51pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

And again I never said we should get them.

it was very silly, even for this thread, to even suggest them. and johnnybigwallet did make a good point. Pilot retention is a big enough problem as it is. If we even thought about buying nonsense like that there would be an exodus.

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 10:54pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it was very silly, even for this thread, to even suggest them. and johnnybigwallet did make a good point. Pilot retention is a big enough problem as it is. If we even thought about buying nonsense like that there would be an exodus.

And I never suggested them either, I just asked Jonny if it was about looks!!

jonnybigwallet · 03-04-2020 11:03pm

That plane looks like it was designed by a teenager and it's the type of thing you would expect to see ordered if (God forbid), one of the Healy Rae's became minister for derence. They'd probably have it out sprayin tatties down in Kerry at the weekend.. As for the APC's...they look great to me!

punchdrunk · 03-04-2020 11:05pm

This thread is just a farce!
You’ve given me a good laugh lads!
Jets! Would ye go away and ****e!!

Leonidas BL · 03-04-2020 11:05pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

That plane looks like it was designed by a teenager and it's the type of thing you would expect to see ordered if (God forbid), one of the Healy Rae's became minister for derence. They'd probably have it out sprayin tatties down in Kerry at the weekend.. As for the APC's...they look great to me!

They'd probably declare war on the Japanese knot weed

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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