US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Itssoeasy wrote: »

From looking this morning on line at Americans tweeting about the election, there does seem to be this unease about the election. I mean nothing is impossible and Trump winning four years ago is proof of that. I plan to stay up until at least 1am so that I see some of the important states start reporting some actual numbers. Btw if you can’t watch it in the early hours here in Ireland, you can download the tune in radio app which lets you listen to MSNBC, CNN and Fox News. Florida will be the state to watch early on because if that’s showing Biden ahead or doing better in republican areas than Clinton did last time then it may bode well. Pennsylvania will not report tonight it seems but if Biden can win Florida or NC then the issue with Pennsylvania doesn’t arise.

I'm staying up pretty late these days so 1am or 2am wouldn't be outside the norm. I'm just not sure if the nerves can take it.

ELM327 wrote: »

Luckily for you there is
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Its funny you mention that as it completely demolishes your argument. Here is their rating of the 2020 candidates based on public statements, manifestos etc.

For the bulk of Biden’s career, he’s been an unswerving upholder of the status quo. Despite recent attempts to reinvent himself to accommodate the ascendant progressive wing of the party, Biden remains at heart an unimaginative conservative who, among much else, was a driving force for the catastrophic invasion of Iraq.

And here are all the dem primary contenders. As you can see even Bernie Sanders, the radical left bogeyman is barely to the left of most centre left European politicians, which is to say, barely left at all.

Brian? wrote: »

As you likely know, that isn't an answer to my question.


To be clear, the reason I object to the term "leftist" is that it groups everyone on the left into one homogenous group. When it isn't, it's very far from homogenous.

As a libertarian socialist I share very few common beliefs with a Stalinist. But using your broad and lazy generalisation we're both "leftists".

What is a libertarian socialist? Not joking, this is genuinely confusing me.

Election Day - finally here. As a political anorak I will admit that I am excited but also a little bit nervous given the stakes. I'm going to try and pull an all-nighter later on.

I wholeheartedly agree with the poster above who mentioned all of the autocrats and far right politicians who were emboldened by Trump being elected given the platform that he ran on. No, they are not going to disappear overnight if Biden loses but the defenestration of Trump will send out a strong message.

Whether people like it or not the USA is still a beacon that people look toward. Hell, we're all in here on the second iteration of this thread discussing it. Whenever Covid is resolved we are still going to be left with the existential threat of Climate Breakdown. Even having a US President who actually believes that this is caused by human activity will be a huge win. But it's not just that, of course not.

Trump is a deeply damaged human being. Take your pick: His complete lack of empathy, his rampant narcissism, his complete disinterest and reluctance to engage in the actual job of being President of the USA beyond the pomp and grandeur that goes along with the office. He's like a child who just wants it to be his birthday every day of the year and for everyone to sit around watching him opening his presents and patting him on the head telling him what a good boy he is.

The most dangerous thing of all about him though can be summed up in one quote "Fake News". He has had the reptilian genius with that one phrase, to bat away all and any legitimate criticism of himself and his actions. He has created a universe for his supporters where there is no objective truth, only whatever he deems the truth to be. It is both Orwellian and cult-like and has the potential to cause great harm. In a world where nothing is really true then anything can be true. It erodes trust, which is one of the foundations of a healthy society and allows all manner of charlatans to flourish. It absolutely kills me when I hear that same phrase being used on this side of the ocean and especially in this country.

If Trump loses and when the dust settles you will hear a lot of talk about how his Presidency could have been a lot worse. However, I think that that misses the point. The real damage was done to the USA with that fact that he was elected in the first place. It will be a stain on that nation for ever more. If I never hear the bankrupt expression "American Exceptionalism" again then that will be no bad thing.





I should probably get off the fence and say who I'm supporting right!?

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Election Day - finally here. As a political anorak I will admit that I am excited but also a little bit nervous given the stakes. I'm going to try and pull an all-nighter later on.

I wholeheartedly agree with the poster above who mentioned all of the autocrats and far right politicians who were emboldened by Trump being elected given the platform that he ran on. No, they are not going to disappear overnight if Biden loses but the defenestration of Trump will send out a strong message.

Whether people like it or not the USA is still a beacon that people look toward. Hell, we're all in here on the second iteration of this thread discussing it. Whenever Covid is resolved we are still going to be left with the existential threat of Climate Breakdown. Even having a US President who actually believes that this is caused by human activity will be a huge win. But it's not just that, of course not.

Trump is a deeply damaged human being. Take your pick: His complete lack of empathy, his rampant narcissism, his complete disinterest and reluctance to engage in the actual job of being President of the USA beyond the pomp and grandeur that goes along with the office. He's like a child who just wants it to be his birthday every day of the year and for everyone to sit around watching him opening his presents and patting him on the head telling him what a good boy he is.

The most dangerous thing of all about him though can be summed up in one quote "Fake News". He has had the reptilian genius with that one phrase, to bat away all and any legitimate criticism of himself and his actions. He has created a universe for his supporters where there is no objective truth, only whatever he deems the truth to be. It is both Orwellian and cult-like and has the potential to cause great harm. In a world where nothing is really true then anything can be true. It erodes trust, which is one of the foundations of a healthy society and allows all manner of charlatans to flourish. It absolutely kills me when I hear that same phrase being used on this side of the ocean and especially in this country.

If Trump loses and when the dust settles you will hear a lot of talk about how his Presidency could have been a lot worse. However, I think that that misses the point. The real damage was done to the USA with that fact that he was elected in the first place. It will be a stain on that nation for ever more. If I never hear the bankrupt expression "American Exceptionalism" again then that will be no bad thing.

I should probably get off the fence and say who I'm supporting right!?

lol, well said. The only thing I disagree with is the US as a 'beacon'. I dont think thats true, and for a lot of the world it never has been.

What is true is that the US is just too big, economically and militarily for effective global change to happen whilst it is fighting against that change.

I have little faith that Biden will bring about the kind of changes we need, however he will at the very least not be in fierce opposition to them, so it's a no brainer.

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

What is a libertarian socialist? Not joking, this is genuinely confusing me.

Would seem a touch contradictory to me, but I plead ignorance.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Libertarian%20Socialism

Not an oxymoron. In fact, the term "libertarian" was first used by a French anarcho-communist back in 1857 to describe himself (an anarchist). The modern term libertarianism (economic freedoms) was originally called liberalism. The term "libertarian" describes liberty (thus, the term is also used to describe metaphysical liberty within philosophy and metaphysics), and the term socialism describes a society in which wealth is fairly distributed. Thus, it is neither a literal nor a practical contradiction.

A libertarian socialist would argue that a society based on such huge disparities of wealth is unfree. If you wish to enter into employment, you choose first and take orders later (as with liberal democracy). Libertarian socialists believe in voluntary association and economic democracy. This will allow the individual to reach his/her full potential.

The most famous example of successful libertarian socialism is the anarcho-syndicalist experiment in Spain during to Spanish Civil War, which was eventually destroyed by Communists and Fascists (see Orwell' "Homage to Catalonia" for excellent first hand reportage of this). At its peak, the anarchist union (CNT) had one million members.

Although sharing much of (if not all of) the Marxist analysis of capitalism, lib socialists vehemently oppose state socialism, especially the authoritarian socialism of Lenin, Trotsky, Mao and, more recently, the socialism of Hugo Chavez. The modern dispute between the two schools of socialism began in the First International, in which Karl Marx and Mikhail Bakunin bitterly argued over the road socialists should take. This dispute has continued ever since, with many Marxist regimes imprisoning, murdering (Russia), and exiling (Cuba) anarchists.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well we don’t get nbc or msnbc or Fox in Ireland. I’m sure all Channels will have an option on their dedicated apps(cnn did in the 2018 mid term elections) so we shall see.

NBC and CNN are on sky
I regularly watch MSNBC and Fox News live on youtube.

droidus wrote: »

Its funny you mention that as it completely demolishes your argument. Here is their rating of the 2020 candidates based on public statements, manifestos etc.





And here are all the dem primary contenders. As you can see even Bernie Sanders, the radical left bogeyman is barely to the left of most centre left European politicians, which is to say, barely left at all.

It's clearly wrong, if it has biden at right of center.

ELM327 wrote: »

It's clearly wrong, if it has biden at right of center.

Compared to the rest of the world the majority of the democratic party is right of centre, you can refuse to accept this as a fact but it doesn't make it any less true.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you actually high?..

Trumps daughter has converted to Judaism..

What has that got to do with anything?

Tell me how wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything?

Showing that he wouldnt be an antisemite. Same as the relocation to Jerusalem would show.
In fact Trump and his base would be closer to Zionists than antisemites.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well we don’t get nbc or msnbc or Fox in Ireland. I’m sure all Channels will have an option on their dedicated apps(cnn did in the 2018 mid term elections) so we shall see.

You'll get most stations' live feeds on YouTube

I went with ABC 4 years ago as they had an app with the Apple TV and they were pretty good actually.