US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

VinLieger

ELM327 wrote: »

Fiscal: Increased taxation, more government control and spending


Social: Socialized medicine and enforced state healthcare even for those whose private plans are better coverage or cheaper. Interference in healthcare, infringing upon citizens rights and states rights (eg gun control, planned parenthood, defunding police - Kamala wants this even if he claims not to)


All of the above are left of center. I'm an extreme right libertarian. So I don't agree with authoritarian policies like Biden's proposed big government, nor do I agree with infringing on rights of citizens. A reminder that, in america, the point of the constitution is not to grant rights to citizens, but rather to grant rights to the federal government, as the right of citizens to be free and states to self govern is absolute.

Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have exactly the same policies would you describe them as left or right of centre?

Canice Picklington

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, he's probably not a rabid anti semite..

But of course, orange man bad..

Moving the goalposts now.

A bit of anti-Semitism is apparently grand, just not "rabid" anti-Semitism.

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

Brian?

droidus wrote: »

Feck. I guess I should be paying more attention to anarchist monthly. I thought it was all about mutual aid, defending against the worst excesses of the state and building resilient self governing community structures.

Unfortunately you need to subscribe to Libertarian Socialist monthly to read our critiques of mainstream anarchism.


I am not trying to attack anarchism here, I agree with the aims just not always the methods.

Brian?

ELM327 wrote: »

Fiscal: Increased taxation, more government control and spending

A more level tax base, not actually increased taxation.

Social: Socialized medicine and enforced state healthcare even for those whose private plans are better coverage or cheaper. Interference in healthcare, infringing upon citizens rights and states rights (eg gun control, planned parenthood, defunding police - Kamala wants this even if he claims not to)

Biden doesn't stand for socialised medicine.

All of the above are left of center. I'm an extreme right libertarian. So I don't agree with authoritarian policies like Biden's proposed big government, nor do I agree with infringing on rights of citizens. A reminder that, in america, the point of the constitution is not to grant rights to citizens, but rather to grant rights to the federal government, as the right of citizens to be free and states to self govern is absolute.

Many right wing people agree with increased government regulation; anti abortion, anti gay marriage etc..

Which is my point. Neither left nor right are homogenous groups.

droidus

Brian? wrote: »

Unfortunately you need to subscribe to Libertarian Socialist monthly to read our critiques of mainstream anarchism.

I am not trying to attack anarchism here, I agree with the aims just not always the methods.

Its grand, I'll meet you at the next radical left AGM. There's a good bomb making seminar in one of the breakout rooms where we can settle our differences.

ELM327

VinLieger wrote: »

Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have exactly the same policies would you describe them as left or right of centre?

Most Irish parties are centrist. FF would be leftist. Just not as much as the loony left that we have here. AOC would fit in well in SF/AAA/PBP/SD etc

VinLieger

ELM327 wrote: »

Most Irish parties are centrist. FF would be leftist. Just not as much as the loony left that we have here. AOC would fit in well in SF/AAA/PBP/SD etc

Good lord your political compass has been utterly warped by US politics.

Psychedelic Hedgehog

ELM327 wrote: »

All of the above are left of center. I'm an extreme right libertarian

“Shadwell hated all southerners and, by inference, was standing at the North Pole.”

― Terry Pratchett, Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch

MJohnston

ELM327 wrote: »

Most Irish parties are centrist. FF would be leftist. Just not as much as the loony left that we have here. AOC would fit in well in SF/AAA/PBP/SD etc

FF are only left-wing in an American sense. FF are centre-right for most things and Leo has FG heading off to the far right.

Here's a good couple of maps for you:

UpBack1234

ELM327 wrote: »

Most Irish parties are centrist. FF would be leftist. Just not as much as the loony left that we have here. AOC would fit in well in SF/AAA/PBP/SD etc

Micheál Martin's joint press conference with the head of Pfizer Ireland yesterday would beg to differ re his being 'leftist'!

pixelburp

"leftist" is as unhelpful and lazy a reduction in conversation as "woke", in meaning so much while nothing at all at the same time. Obviously with extreme right wing beliefs everything seems leftist in comparison, but by any sober metric - including the website given above - Joe Biden is NOT a "leftist". A point easily self evident by the simple fact his policies are not necessarily embraced by the actual left wing of the Democrats. Not being Trump is carrying a lot of water at the moment. He's not "Medicare for all", a key tenet of the actual left wing. Kamala Harris' history as AG is not especially "soft" on crime; neither individuals are especially leftist - unless as said the individual is already particularly right of centr.

Chips Lovell

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Memnoch

droidus wrote: »

It's basically some kind of anarchist. Bottom left of the political compass, the best corner.

Except there is no such thing as anarchy. Anarchy is simply a dictatorship of the wealthy. Removal of governmental protections allows individuals and "Corporations" (who are people too right?) to run rampant and subjugate anyone without the resources to stand up to them.

Libertarianism is actually thinly disguised corporatism.

Overheal

ELM327 wrote: »

Luckily for you there is
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Uh yeah so how is he a leftist? Waiting...

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Tell me how

Memnoch wrote: »

Except there is no such thing as anarchy. Anarchy is simply a dictatorship of the wealthy. Removal of governmental protections allows individuals and "Corporations" (who are people too right?) to run rampant and subjugate anyone without the resources to stand up to them.

Libertarianism is actually thinly disguised corporatism.

It's governance by Jeff Bezos, Charles Koch, Mark Zuckerburg and Elon Musk without the burden of elections.

Brian?

Memnoch wrote: »

Libertarianism is actually thinly disguised corporatism.

Right libertarianism is, it's actually anarcho capitalism.

weldoninhio

Think Trump will win. But as a bet I picked Harris as next President. Anyone else think Biden looked a bit wobbly/unwell on the campaign trail?? If he does win will he make it to next February in full fettle??

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Think Trump will win. But as a bet I picked Harris as next President. Anyone else think Biden looked a bit wobbly/unwell on the campaign trail?? If he does win will he make it to next February in full fettle??

I was going to ask the same earlier..

Tell me how

weldoninhio wrote: »

Think Trump will win. But as a bet I picked Harris as next President. Anyone else think Biden looked a bit wobbly/unwell on the campaign trail?? If he does win will he make it to next February in full fettle??

Inauguration is in January.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

Inauguration is in January.

Same difference.

Widdensushi

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Can we get back to US elections please

First town (of 5 people) announce unanimous result for Biden
https://www.9news.com.au/world/dixville-notch-first-town-in-america-to-vote-new-hampshire-ballot-cast-results/c3e78d61-5b79-4f0d-9360-b88af9118678

in 2016 there was 7 people there and 2 of those were for Trump

Did they murder them?

seamus

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

in 2016 there was 7 people there and 2 of those were for Trump

And 4 were for Clinton!

It was amusing reading about these little towns. There's a second one about 5km south of Dixville Notch, that's heavily Republican, and has 21 voters out of 22 people. It backed Trump 16 to 5 this morning.

Odd how you see such polarised differences in tiny areas. That said, 10 of those 21 registered voters are over 65.

I suspect many of these tiny townships are just extended families living within close proximity to eachother and nobody else. So of course one would expect them all to vote similarly.

Manic Moran

Water John wrote: »

The Florida system of having the mail in already counted and released immediately after close of vote is much better.

Depends on what is most important to you. If you want Florida results in early so you don't have to wait to late at night to find out who won the election, sure. There may be an argument about counting before a fire in the warehouse destroys them.

On the other hand, States like Wisconsin or Michigan consider voting day to be the day of ultimate choice and allow you to cancel your ballot before it is opened on voting day, and vote again if you decide on the basis of new information to change your mind.

Not as clear cut.

MJohnston

weldoninhio wrote: »

Think Trump will win. But as a bet I picked Harris as next President. Anyone else think Biden looked a bit wobbly/unwell on the campaign trail?? If he does win will he make it to next February in full fettle??

I haven't seen anything to suggest that, he certainly looks a lot more energetic than Trump, although they're both clearly old men.

But I'd imagine a campaign schedule would have anyone feeling unwell. Trump sounded very bad on Fox News today, but I'm sure that's just overexertion rather than his Covid flaring up again.

Christy42

weldoninhio wrote: »

Think Trump will win. But as a bet I picked Harris as next President. Anyone else think Biden looked a bit wobbly/unwell on the campaign trail?? If he does win will he make it to next February in full fettle??

They said the same about Hilary 4 years ago and she is still going strong. Tired old bit. Biden was in fine form speaking with Obama the other night with one of his best performances.

amadangomor

MJohnston wrote: »

FF are only left-wing in an American sense. FF are centre-right for most things and Leo has FG heading off to the far right.

Here's a good couple of maps for you:

Ah ffs, neither FF or FG are anywhere close to that far right. That chart is from some weird social media fantasy.

We have one of the most generous social welfare systems after decades of FF and fG in power. How the fudge does happen if they are anywhere near that far right?

weldoninhio

MJohnston wrote: »

I haven't seen anything to suggest that, he certainly looks a lot more energetic than Trump, although they're both clearly old men.

But I'd imagine a campaign schedule would have anyone feeling unwell. Trump sounded very bad on Fox News today, but I'm sure that's just overexertion rather than his Covid flaring up again.

Mixing up Teresa May and Thatcher, mixing up Trump with Bush, 120m dead from Covid, etc

ancapailldorcha

Back on topic please.

everlast75

weldoninhio wrote: »

Mixing up Teresa May and Thatcher, mixing up Trump with Bush, 120m dead from Covid, etc

Calling Matt Gaets Rick Gates, callin Lil Pump, Little Pimp, not being able to walk down a ramp properly, taking two hands to sip a glass of water.

Only one person has credible medical records and Trump isn't him.

We could play this all day.


Anyhoo - he was on Fox this morning sounding very very deflated.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Back on topic please.

Posts deleted. No betting talk please.