Who'd live in a house like this? Part 2

Kingp35 · 05-12-2018 10:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

A: as someone else said, get yourself a new accountant. 12k a year income and 5k tax bill?

Assuming the landlord in question had a day to day job earning enough to be in the higher tax band then the tax on 12k rental income would be at 48.75% (income tax + PRSI + USC). Of course they can claim some expenses but they are very restrictive so the tax bill on the rent would more than likely be above 5k.

An accountant is not a magician. That being said I have no sympathy for any landlords charging crazy rents which is most of them at the moment!

AlmightyCushion · 05-12-2018 10:43am

Kingp35 wrote: »

Assuming the landlord in question had a day to day job earning enough to be in the higher tax band then the tax on 12k rental income would be at 48.75% (income tax + PRSI + USC). Of course they can claim some expenses but they are very restrictive so the tax bill on the rent would more than likely be above 5k.

An accountant is not a magician. That being said I have no sympathy for any landlords charging crazy rents which is most of them at the moment!

One of the expenses they can claim is their mortgage interest (currently they can only claim 80% but soon it will be 100%). If 10 years ago, someone had taken out a 30 year mortgage at 3.5% then half their mortgage payments is interest. Given this is an allowable expense it would massively reduce their tax bill.

The Nal · 05-12-2018 11:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

This wrecks my head.

Your 1000 quid a month mortgage covered by 1000 quid a month rent could leave you with a 4-5k tax bill?

A: as someone else said, get yourself a new accountant. 12k a year income and 5k tax bill?

But more importantly,

B: When you sell the house, all the proceeds are yours. Someone else has paid the mortgage for you. Poor poor landlords, average house price is 350k nowadays and that's recent prices, everyone knows how low they were 15 years ago!
So my heart bleeds for the poor landlord class.

Even if they were to pay 4k a year in tax, that's 100k over 25 years. When they sell, they'll get vastly more.

Anyway....

All this is vastly off topic, apologies.

Im not defending landlords or people who have invested Im just pointing out the reality of why a lot of people are "renovating" and £moving in a relation" in order to pump up their rents, hence we're seeing madness in this thread.

A lot of it is to cover tax bills. 700,000 people rent out homes in this country, 2/3s of them own one property.

Anyway apologies, off topic.

05-12-2018 12:34pm

The Nal wrote: »

Im not defending landlords or people who have invested Im just pointing out the reality of why a lot of people are "renovating" and £moving in a relation" in order to pump up their rents, hence we're seeing madness in this thread.

A lot of it is to cover tax bills. 700,000 people rent out homes in this country, 2/3s of them own one property.

Anyway apologies, off topic.

700,000 landlords in Ireland?

The Nal · 05-12-2018 12:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

700,000 landlords in Ireland?

Ah soz no, hadn't had my coffee. 700,000 people rent, from about 170,000 landlords. 36% of them are accidental landlords according to the PRTB. Thats over 60,000 homes. Basically people who bought during the boom. Remember at the turn of the century, 50% the population of Dublin were under 25 years of age.

BattleCorp · 05-12-2018 1:26pm

The Nal wrote: »

Ah soz no, hadn't had my coffee. 700,000 people rent, from about 170,000 landlords. 36% of them are accidental landlords according to the PRTB. Thats over 60,000 homes. Basically people who bought during the boom. Remember at the turn of the century, 50% the population of Dublin were under 25 years of age.

I don't understand the term accidental landlord. It's kind of misleading. It is the term for people who aren't professional investors in rental property and maybe only rent out one or two houses. Small scale landlords would be more accurate.

The Nal · 05-12-2018 1:41pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't understand the term accidental landlord. It's kind of misleading. It is the term for people who aren't professional investors in rental property and maybe only rent out one or two houses. Small scale landlords would be more accurate.

I think it means people who bought during the boom, have moved out and are stuck with not being able to sell it due to negative equity.

TomSweeney · 05-12-2018 2:48pm

Zulu wrote: »

We got evicted from a tiny 3 bed in Sutton (Binn Eadair View?) this time last year. Given notice in June 2017. "Major renovations". Place was painted, and 3 windows at the front replaced. Went back on the market for €2,250 this time last year.

It's madness.

That was the one I saw, my uncle lives in Binn Eadair view he bought a house there before the madness - the place is tiny!!

Zulu · 05-12-2018 3:39pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

That was the one I saw, my uncle lives in Binn Eadair view he bought a house there before the madness - the place is tiny!!

And really poorly constructed - assuming it, like the house I rented, was never updated.
Things to watch out for if you are considering it:

original build had storage heaters downstairs & electric upstairs (we could only power 2 of the 3 downstairs rads before throwing the main fuse)
walls are paper thin between houses (we could hear plugs being plugged in for example)
original single glazed windows
people drive very fast through the estate/lots of rental

...other than that, it's very very close to the dart (there's a cut through) and it's in a great location. Some of the neighbors were really really nice people. And in the night you can hear the Brent geese (from bull island) and the fog horn (from the dock - when foggy), which is lovely at night.
Oh and it's great for cycling in/out of town with the cycle lane to your door.

DrPhilG · 05-12-2018 4:30pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

An accountant is not a magician

I'm a landlord, I also work 2 jobs. My tax bill is nowhere near 40% of my rental income.

An accountant is not a magician but someone earning £12k in rent and losing £5k in tax is doing something wrong.

Zulu · 05-12-2018 4:48pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm a landlord, I also work 2 jobs. My tax bill is nowhere near 40% of my rental income.

An accountant is not a magician but someone earning £12k in rent and losing £5k in tax is doing something wrong.

Really?
I've averaged my tax over the past 3 years, it's working out at 52.4%
PRSI, USC etc all included. I'm loosing well over 6K in your example. And I've an accountant...

Grayson · 05-12-2018 5:08pm

I know this is backseat modding but I love this thread. Seeing stupid rentals actually brightens my day up (and makes it a bit sadder).

Could we have more of that please? The current topic is important but not as important as my fun.

ohnonotgmail · 05-12-2018 5:10pm

Zulu wrote: »

Really?
I've averaged my tax over the past 3 years, it's working out at 52.4%
PRSI, USC etc all included. I'm loosing well over 6K in your example. And I've an accountant...

top rate of paye is 40%. prsi rate is 4% for A1. USC is 4.75% up to €70,000, 8% for the rest. So anything over 70K has 52% deductions, 48.75 up to 70K. I cant see how you are paying 52.4 on your total. what am i missing?

zell12 · 05-12-2018 5:21pm

:mad::mad::mad::mad:
oB6hRep.jpg?1

Moonjet · 05-12-2018 5:26pm

Grayson wrote: »

I know this is backseat modding but I love this thread. Seeing stupid rentals actually brightens my day up (and makes it a bit sadder).

Could we have more of that please? The current topic is important but not as important as my fun.

Here you go. A fine selection of garden sheds in D15 area for rent, €950 - €1,000 pm

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/meadow-copse-blanchardstown-dublin-1893306/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/studio-apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/huntstown-blanchardstown-dublin-1886186/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/clonee/hunters-run-clonee-dublin-1883546/

Grayson · 05-12-2018 5:32pm

Thank you!

Now I'm depressed again. ....

AlmightyCushion · 05-12-2018 5:33pm

zell12 wrote: »

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

I'm surprised the landlord hasn't tried velcro-ing a few people to the ceiling to make a few extra quid.

Grayson · 05-12-2018 5:36pm

Jesus, that first one. 950 a month for a shed that has a single bed in it.

wonski · 05-12-2018 5:38pm

11 people at 385 a month. That's what you call easy profit.

Living room with balcony and Netflix, how generous.

Zulu · 05-12-2018 5:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

top rate of paye is 40%. prsi rate is 4% for A1. USC is 4.75% up to €70,000, 8% for the rest. So anything over 70K has 52% deductions, 48.75 up to 70K. I cant see how you are paying 52.4 on your total. what am i missing?

it'd all be over 70K

AlmightyCushion · 05-12-2018 5:42pm

Zulu wrote: »

it'd all be over 70K

So even if you had no expenses at all you would still only be paying 52% at most, not 52.4%. Most landlords would have some expenses during the year. Ones with a mortgage would have the mortgage interest as an expense and likely it would be a fairly large expense.

Grayson · 05-12-2018 5:43pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I'm surprised the landlord hasn't tried velcro-ing a few people to the ceiling to make a few extra quid.

When you google "railway street Dublin" one of the google autocompletes is "railway street Dublin shooting"

Looked at it on google maps. Don't think I'd walk up there at night.

tara73 · 05-12-2018 5:43pm

Moonjet wrote: »

Here you go. A fine selection of garden sheds in D15 area for rent, €950 - €1,000 pm

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/meadow-copse-blanchardstown-dublin-1893306/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/studio-apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/huntstown-blanchardstown-dublin-1886186/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/clonee/hunters-run-clonee-dublin-1883546/

crazy stuff. they all look so similar, all in the same area and they all let by the same agent. I have an image in my head now with this agent running up and down the streets telling the owners plant this type of shed in your garden and I'll find you a tenant for 1000€/month.

Zulu · 05-12-2018 5:46pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

So even if you had no expenses at all you would still only be paying 52% at most, not 52.4%. Most landlords would have some expenses during the year. Ones with a mortgage would have the mortgage interest as an expense and likely it would be a fairly large expense.

tracker mortgage so feic all mortgage interest, and little expenses with the tenants currently in there (boiler service €90, management fees, thats about it).
So my average isn't entirely off the mark (out by .4 perhaps), but it's nowhere need as low as others are making out (40%)

Tomw86 · 05-12-2018 5:47pm

Moonjet wrote: »

Here you go. A fine selection of garden sheds in D15 area for rent, €950 - €1,000 pm

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/meadow-copse-blanchardstown-dublin-1893306/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/studio-apartments-for-rent/blanchardstown/huntstown-blanchardstown-dublin-1886186/

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/clonee/hunters-run-clonee-dublin-1883546/

Good God :eek:

RayCun · 05-12-2018 5:57pm

Zulu wrote: »

it'd all be over 70K

your income can't all be over 70k, the first 69,999 is under

your maximum marginal rate is 52%, but your tax rate is lower

Zulu · 05-12-2018 6:00pm

RayCun wrote: »

your income can't all be over 70k, the first 69,999 is under

your maximum marginal rate is 52%, but your tax rate is lower

???? Of course it can; we're talking about rental income.

The first 69,999 is other income (wages for example)

2ndcoming · 05-12-2018 6:48pm

Zulu wrote: »

???? Of course it can; we're talking about rental income.

The first 69,999 is other income (wages for example)

Your effective rate is much lower as you have a standard rate band and credits to come off the first 35/40k of your income.

You only pay the highest rates on earnings over certain thresholds. Nobody pays 52% on everything.

Tax affects everyone yet most people are clueless about it, should really be taught more in schools. A lot more useful than most of the sh1t you have to go through for the leaving.

somesoldiers · 05-12-2018 7:47pm

Jesus can ye take the tax talk elsewhere

05-12-2018 10:13pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I'm surprised the landlord hasn't tried velcro-ing a few people to the ceiling to make a few extra quid.

Wait until he decides to hang a couple of hammocks between the bunks!

Who'd live in a house like this? Part 2

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