Women more likely to ask for divorce

Playboy · 22-08-2015 10:31pm #1

Interesting article in Time which describes the results of a study which states that women are far more likely to initiate a divorce in comparison to men (69% vs 31%). However in non married couples the initiation of the end of the relationship was split evenly between the genders.

I think most guys and maybe some gals would think that the answer to why this is the case would be fairly obvious. You would assume that women generally do better financially out of divorce than men given that traditional roles are still fairly prevalent in a lot of western societies with men being the primary breadwinner and the women splitting their time between work and kids or just full time mums/housewives. If a woman can keep the family home, keep the kids and get spousal and child maintenance then it must be a fairly attractive option if you are bored with the husband or he has turned into a bit of a dck.

But what I love about this article is the complete absence of this explanation for the skewed figures.. Instead we get the following explanation;

Women may be responding to the still arcane conventions of spousal roles, which contrast with growing equality in other institutions, such as the workplace. “I think that marriage as an institution has been a little bit slow to catch up with expectations for gender equality. Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,” he said in the statement. “On the other hand, I think that non-marital relationships lack the historical baggage and expectations of marriage, which makes the non-marital relationships more flexible and therefore more adaptable to modern expectations … of gender equality.”

Now I must point out that this study was led by a man (Michael Rosenfeld - Stanford) and the comments above are his. So what say you? Man afraid to state the obvious in fear of a backlash or the above explanation makes total sense?

Source

Calahonda52 · 22-08-2015 10:43pm

can't wait for his reaction when he realises how the Irish equality referendum will queer the pitch for research such as this as it will be 100% of married women and 100% of married men

Fox_In_Socks · 22-08-2015 10:43pm

I've been reading Afterhours for a while and I'm of the opinion now that I won't let any of those bloodsucking harridans near me or my finances.

Junkyard Tom · 22-08-2015 10:47pm

Playboy wrote: »

I think most guys and maybe some gals would think that the answer to why this is the case would be fairly obvious.

It's not obvious at all.

Lucifer MorningStar · 22-08-2015 10:47pm

Playboy wrote: »

Interesting article in Time which describes the results of a study which states that women are far more likely to initiate a divorce in comparison to men (69% vs 31%). However in non married couples the initiation of the end of the relationship was split evenly between the genders.

I think most guys and maybe some gals would think that the answer to why this is the case would be fairly obvious. You would assume that women generally do better financially out of divorce than men given that traditional roles are still fairly prevalent in a lot of western societies with men being the primary breadwinner and the women splitting their time between work and kids or just full time mums/housewives. If a woman can keep the family home, keep the kids and get spousal and child maintenance then it must be a fairly attractive option if you are bored with the husband or he has turned into a bit of a dck.

But what I love about this article is the complete absence of this explanation for the skewed figures.. Instead we get the following explanation;

Women may be responding to the still arcane conventions of spousal roles, which contrast with growing equality in other institutions, such as the workplace. “I think that marriage as an institution has been a little bit slow to catch up with expectations for gender equality. Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,” he said in the statement. “On the other hand, I think that non-marital relationships lack the historical baggage and expectations of marriage, which makes the non-marital relationships more flexible and therefore more adaptable to modern expectations … of gender equality.”

Now I must point out that this study was led by a man (Michael Rosenfeld - Stanford) and the comments above are his. So what say you? Man afraid to state the obvious in fear of a backlash or the above explanation makes total sense?

Source

That's exactly the reason why I will never get married. If it goes tits up its always the bloke who gets shafted.

jaymcg91 · 22-08-2015 10:49pm

I'd say it's because men will put up with a lot for quiet life, whereas women won't

.

SureYWouldntYa · 22-08-2015 10:50pm

Men know they're the ones who'll get shafted if it happens

ceadaoin. · 22-08-2015 10:50pm

Another woman bashing thread then. When we aren't tricking men into raising another guys child, we're marrying and divorcing just to get some property and money. Sure what other reason would there be for leaving a marriage?

Pink Lemons · 22-08-2015 10:51pm

Now I ain't saying she's a gold digger..

22-08-2015 10:51pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's not obvious at all.

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

Junkyard Tom · 22-08-2015 10:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

I have no idea if that's true or not but what piques my interest is that it's primarily women who are initiating divorce proceedings which is kind of a big deal. Personally, I wouldn't have to be asked twice.

ceadaoin. · 22-08-2015 10:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

And there's been a change in attitudes towards these things I think. Women nowadays are far less likely to put up with being mistreated than previous generations combined with better resources to enable victims of domestic abuse to leave such as women's shelters etc.

Colser · 22-08-2015 10:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

Thanking this just in relation to the cheating part:)

SureYWouldntYa · 22-08-2015 10:58pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Another woman bashing thread then. When we aren't tricking men into raising another guys child, we're marrying and divorcing just to get some property and money. Sure what other reason would there be for leaving a marriage?

Never mind the "woman bashing"

Fact is more women ask for divorce than men

Fact is women come out a lot better in court proceedings, in terms of finances, property and what happens to the children

Earthhorse · 22-08-2015 11:02pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

When we aren't tricking men into raising another guys child, we're marrying and divorcing just to get some property and money.

Fair play for admitting it though.

Richard Hillman · 22-08-2015 11:03pm

Men are more likely to become obnoxious slobs in their middle age. Women end up resenting ending up with them.

It also stems from women trying to become their husbands mother or turning their husbands into pet dogs. The male ends up becoming an overgrown child used to being told what to do, where to go, what time to be home by, wear these clothes, handover your wages to pay the bills etc. The lady always ends up resenting their husbands spinelessness.

Colser · 22-08-2015 11:03pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I have no idea if that's true or not but what piques my interest is that it's primarily women who are initiating divorce proceedings which is kind of a big deal. Personally, I wouldn't have to be asked twice.

Why dont you ask? Maybe thats why more women initiate it because men cant be bothered to even do that.

DoYouEvenLift · 22-08-2015 11:12pm

Lol @ even considering marriage as a man these days until the laws are changed, especially regarding children.

Edit: this needn't be a 'woman bashing thread', it should be a marriage laws bashing thread. If the roles were reversed and it was men who came out on top from divorces it'd be naive to think there aren't men who would be just as scummy as the women that take advantage of the privileges these laws provide them.

Links234 · 22-08-2015 11:13pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Another woman bashing thread then.

It's seriously getting depressing around here tbh.

FactCheck · 22-08-2015 11:16pm

I seem to be on a quixotic legal fact checking crusade these days, but just so people know - these statistics are totally irrelevant to Ireland.

In Ireland, men initiate 56% of divorces. Those figures are from this July.

It is true that women initiate a significant majority of judicial separations - about 70%. Which is interesting because it suggests that contrary to popular wisdom that the family courts are a hotbed of bias and misandry, men who have been through them once in a judicial separation are in fact more keen than ever to return to divorce.

(Actually I'm being slightly tongue in cheek here - personally I reckon this is all down to men being somehow socialised more to accept and reinforce the status quo, be that marriage or separation - though I don't know how one would prove it beyond some major social science research, which tends to get rubbished on Boards and elsewhere for its lack of rigour!).

brevity · 22-08-2015 11:16pm

I feel like I time travelled back to the 1960's or 70's reading this thread.

Junkyard Tom · 22-08-2015 11:17pm

Colser wrote: »

Why dont you ask? Maybe thats why more women initiate it because men cant be bothered to even do that.

Yep, I'd say you're onto something there. I'd like to think I'd be emotionally intelligent enough to know when it's over long before I need to be told so.

22-08-2015 11:17pm

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Lol @ even considering marriage as a man these days until the laws are changed, especially regarding children.

What precisely would you change?

Amirani · 22-08-2015 11:17pm

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Lol @ even considering marriage as a man these days until the laws are changed, especially regarding children.

The overwhelming majority of women don't set out to screw you, regardless of what incentives the law offers.

efb · 22-08-2015 11:18pm

Hello Divorce, bye bye Daddy! Yawn...

Earthhorse · 22-08-2015 11:20pm

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The overwhelming majority of women don't set out to screw you, regardless of what incentives the law offers.

Tell me about it.

ceadaoin. · 22-08-2015 11:22pm

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Never mind the "woman bashing"

Fact is more women ask for divorce than men

Fact is women come out a lot better in court proceedings, in terms of finances, property and what happens to the children

Fact is too that women take more of a financial hit long term after a divorce than men do. It's easier for men to recoup their financial losses when their earning power hasnt been impacted.

Also a fact - These gold digging women that some guys on here seem to be obsessed with are few and far between.

Stheno · 22-08-2015 11:25pm

International research indicates that the more financially independant women are the more likely they are to initiate divorce proceedings

Junkyard Tom · 22-08-2015 11:27pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Men are more likely to become obnoxious slobs in their middle age. Women end up resenting ending up with them.

It also stems from women trying to become their husbands mother or turning their husbands into pet dogs. The male ends up becoming an overgrown child used to being told what to do, where to go, what time to be home by, wear these clothes, handover your wages to pay the bills etc. The lady always ends up resenting their husbands spinelessness.

A group of lads weren't seeing 'Bob' any more after he got married. Bob gave the excuse that his wife was a bit demanding. Anyhoo some months down the line Bob and his wife were out at some event and someone jokingly brought up that Bob's wife wouldn't leave out any more. Apparently she lost it saying something like 'is that prick telling ye I'm not leaving him out any more'? Yep, the clown was using his wife as an excuse because he'd consciously retired from his social life in favour of becoming house-bound. Pathetic.

FishOnABike · 22-08-2015 11:35pm

FactCheck wrote: »

I seem to be on a quixotic legal fact checking crusade these days, but just so people know - these statistics are totally irrelevant to Ireland.

In Ireland, men initiate 56% of divorces. Those figures are from this July.

It is true that women initiate a significant majority of judicial separations - about 70%. Which is interesting because it suggests that contrary to popular wisdom that the family courts are a hotbed of bias and misandry, men who have been through them once in a judicial separation are in fact more keen than ever to return to divorce.

The linked article refers to High Court proceedings. Most Judicial Separations and Divorces are conducted through the Circuit Court.

Recently published comprehensive research on Judicial Separation and Divorce in the Circuit Court shows where there are dependent children, women initiate 75% of Judicial Separations and 71% of Divorces in the Circuit Court.

FactCheck · 22-08-2015 11:59pm

FishOnABike wrote: »

The linked article refers to High Court proceedings. Most Judicial Separations and Divorces are conducted through the Circuit Court.

Recently published comprehensive research on Judicial Separation and Divorce in the Circuit Court shows where there are dependent children, women initiate 75% of Judicial Separations and 71% of Divorces in the Circuit Court.

You're referring to that WIT postgrad thesis here? I'd have significant reservations about that on several levels.

The number of men and women initiating divorce has consistently been broadly equal in Ireland since its introduction twenty years ago.

Wives initiate 56% of Circuit Court divorces.

FishOnABike · 23-08-2015 12:28am

FactCheck wrote: »

You're referring to that WIT postgrad thesis here? I'd have significant reservations about that on several levels.

The number of men and women initiating divorce has consistently been broadly equal in Ireland since its introduction twenty years ago.

Wives initiate 56% of Circuit Court divorces.

Yes, that's the research I'm referring to. What reservations do you have?

The Courts Service Report you referred to states

"1,271 applications for judicial separation – a 3% decrease on 2013 – the majority (over 70%) in both Circuit Court and High Court by wives"

Judicial Separation is often the first step and sets the scene for a subsequent Divorce which is unlikely to change the terms unless there has been a significant change in circumstances since the judicial separation.

Where judicial separation preceeds a divorce the judicial separation is usually the more contentious as it is where issues regarding children, the family home and other assets are first thrashed out. A subsequent divorce several years later, unless there has been a significant change in circumstances, is usually no more than a non contentious rubber stamping of the status quo established by the judicial separation.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 23-08-2015 8:13am

Where there is a prenuptial agreement present these stats swing a bit. Kids if they are present are the main problem for the man after that.

fatknacker · 23-08-2015 8:21am

As a woman, I just can't wait to find the man of my dreams, marry him and divorce him 15-20 years later.

osarusan · 23-08-2015 8:22am

Who would have thought the serial PUA rereg would talk such nonsense, eh?

Rachiee · 23-08-2015 8:23am

I'd of thought it is more men not wanting to "abandon" the family. Men are raised to think that they must provide for the family it's a strong value, also tree children they aren't very likely to get physical custody in the case of a divorce.

Brian? · 23-08-2015 8:25am

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Never mind the "woman bashing"

Fact is more women ask for divorce than men

Fact is women come out a lot better in court proceedings, in terms of finances, property and what happens to the children

That's not a "fact" at all.

tritium · 23-08-2015 9:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

23-08-2015 9:33am

tritium wrote: »

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Wibbs · 23-08-2015 9:45am

osarusan wrote: »

Who would have thought the serial PUA rereg would talk such nonsense, eh?

We have a few of those eejits alright, though one is in dire need of professional help. A gee hair away from coming totally unwound IMH.

Most of this crap comes from the US of A and then gets repeated verbatim as "truth" on this side of the pond. For a start divorce rates in Ireland are significantly lower than those of the US. Social safety nets are significantly lower there compared to here too. Though we're awash with their surface cultural influence, Ireland is a very different culture. Even within the US subcultures abound. There's a wide gap between Nebraska and Brooklyn. Still, American culture is hardly one to emulate. For all our faults on this damp little rock, I know which country I'd rather live/grow old/be sick/raise kids in.

As for the PUA types? The actual PUA types who actually leave their basements and actually pick up women are the tiny minority(and TBH IMH more power to them. As the reals deal types will happily admit only a minority of women go for that so it amounts to feck all in the great scheme of things). The vast majority of the PUA types are basement dwellers living vicariously and obsessively through their "gurus" and their "methods" and "adventures", while shilling their guru's businesses wherever they can. The Boards rereg is always at the latter nonsense. Amway for saddos. Serve him and his ilk better to go out and score like they claim. They won't though. They're like the majority of Men going their own way(MGTOW) types. They're avoiding life and using all sorts of excuses to do so.

Hey if you want to not get married and move to the burbs and all that, more power to your elbow, if you're doing it for the right reasons, rather than as an avoidance tactic. If the latter, women(™) ain't the problem, You are.

tritium wrote: »

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

+1

tritium · 23-08-2015 9:49am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Well conor. As a reasonably frequent poster I think you're well aware that the points you made are at best very controversial and to a large degree probably downright wrong. Take violence- you are I think aware of the volume of data that shows violence is very much balanced between the genders in relationships. Now not everyone agrees with that I'll grant you, indeed there's a veritable industry in trying to minimise or disprove the incidence if male victims, but the data is there.....

What about cheating? Well the statistics and research there also show a pretty balanced split, which is not really surprising if you think about it

Addiction? Yep traditionally a mans problem more than a woman's. However that gap has been narrowing dramatically in recent years. There's also if I'm being honest something a bit saddening about you using addiction as an excuse for why this is happening, as though somehow that a reasonable reason to leave a marriage. I'm not saying its easy, but you'd be slow to justify someone leaving a marriage where there partner had some other illness, say breast cancer, I suspect so why is this illness so different?

So yeah, seriously!

Wibbs · 23-08-2015 9:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Yes, because it's a gender generalisation that doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. The gender gap for alcohol abuse has narrowed massively in the last few decades, spousal abuse is pretty much 50/50 split between the genders and women are more likely to suffer a drop in libido in marriages and long termers, another stressor there.

jester77 · 23-08-2015 10:51am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Another woman bashing thread then. When we aren't tricking men into raising another guys child, we're marrying and divorcing just to get some property and money. Sure what other reason would there be for leaving a marriage?

He forgot the mother in laws birthday

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 10:59am

Of course women are more likely to ask for a divorce, chances are they'll also get the car the house and the kids, it's not a bad deal in fairness! :-)

Penny Tration · 23-08-2015 11:02am

The men here saying they'll never get married because of women having the ability to screw them in court -

You're aware that after five years of cohabiting, or two if you have kids, a separation entitled the partner to some share in property/money?

Guess ye should just never have a relationship to protect yourself from us money grabbing bitches

the evasion_kid · 23-08-2015 11:17am

For me its the point that they have that option to take you to the cleaners,while most relationships start out with the best intentions doesn't mean a few years down the line things won't go south,in all probability it will,on a side note I don't know if any of yous ever had the misfortune to deal with a woman who thinks with her emotions then acts out of spite...it ain't pretty.

Penny Tration · 23-08-2015 11:31am

the evasion_kid wrote: »

For me its the point that they have that option to take you to the cleaners,while most relationships start out with the best intentions doesn't mean a few years down the line things won't go south,in all probability it will,on a side note I don't know if any of yous ever had the misfortune to deal with a woman who thinks with her emotions then acts out of spite...it ain't pretty.

Men do it, too. As an example - my father refused to pay any maintenance for a while, leaving my mam in a situation where the Vincent de Paul had to help her with Dunnes vouchers for food.

Thankfully, he eventually came to his senses and started paying a reasonable amount of maintenance.

Playboy · 23-08-2015 11:32am

So pointing out that Women potentially do better in terms of children and finances out of divorce than men is horribly sexist and gender bashing but no one comments on the explanation the study had for the difference?

"Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,”

Sure that explanation (no ideological basis ofc :rolleyes: ) which is published in an international magazine is fine?

The article was published on facebook and the comments on the article (of which there were many as with any click-bait article) were mainly concerned with the observation I raised initially which is why I raised it. Men do feel this way but no reference is made to a male perspective.. what we get instead is a female only perspective where once again women are victims. The only possible reason that divorce initiation rates become skewed in marriage (remember non-marital relationships are 50/50) is because as soon as men get married they don't do any housework or childcare anymore. Marriage somehow changes men so they go back in time 50 or 100 years and take on all the old bad habits that we didn't have when in non-married relationships.

As a husband with a second child on the way that does seem at least as an offensive a conclusion to come to as the conclusion that women initiate divorce more because they get a better deal out of it. Divorce for most most men is a disaster not mainly because of the extra financial burdens but because access to your children can become exponentially more difficult. Women may find it easier to leave an unhappy relationship because they don't have the same worry as they can be confident in becoming the primary caregiver.

strelok · 23-08-2015 11:35am

Playboy wrote: »

So pointing out that Women potentially do better in terms of children and finances out of divorce than men is horribly sexist and gender bashing but no one comments on the explanation the study had for the difference?

"Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,”

Sure that explanation (no ideological basis ofc :rolleyes: ) which is published in an international magazine is fine?

The article was published on facebook and the comments on the article (of which there were many as with any click-bait article) were mainly concerned with the observation I raised initially which is why I raised it. Men do feel this way but no reference is made to a male perspective.. what we get instead is a female only perspective where once again women are victims. The only possible reason that divorce initiation rates become skewed in marriage (remember non-marital relationships are 50/50) is because as soon as men get married they don't do any housework or childcare anymore. Marriage somehow changes men so they go back in time 50 or 100 years and take on all the old bad habits that we didn't have when in non-married relationships.

As a husband with a second child on the way that does seem at least as an offensive a conclusion to come to as the conclusion that women initiate divorce more because they get a better deal out of it. Divorce for most most men is a disaster not mainly because of the extra financial burdens but because access to your children can become exponentially more difficult. Women may find it easier to leave an unhappy relationship because they don't have the same worry as they can be confident in becoming the primary caregiver.

why do you hate women, playboy?

B0jangles · 23-08-2015 11:45am

So many hateful generalizations about women in this thread

If we're so terrible the answer is blindingly obvious; don't get married and don't have any relationships with women - your precious belongings are safe from the harridans and no women will have to put up with your paranoid hateful self!

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 12:15pm

B0jangles wrote: »

So many hateful generalizations about women in this thread

If we're so terrible the answer is blindingly obvious; don't get married and don't have any relationships with women - your precious belongings are safe from the harridans and no women will have to put up with your paranoid hateful self!

Relax chicken, listen personally I'm not a big fan of marriage, I enjoy a quiet life and I don't really like the idea of spending the rest of my life with the same person, but again that's purely my opinion, not saying I'm right.

But say if 2 people are getting a divorce would the following not be much fairer?

a) whatever each partner took into the marriage (ie land, a business, property etc etc) they retain in full after the divorce.

b) whatever the 2 of them bought or invested in together as a couple gets evenly split, with the amount invested by each party taken into consideration.

c) equal custody of the children, this is a no brainer wherever it's remotely possible, no normal parent should be denied the right to equal custody.

Do you think that would be a fair way of conducting a divorce for both men and women?

Women more likely to ask for divorce

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