Women more likely to ask for divorce

FishOnABike · 23-08-2015 12:28AM

FactCheck wrote: »

You're referring to that WIT postgrad thesis here? I'd have significant reservations about that on several levels.

The number of men and women initiating divorce has consistently been broadly equal in Ireland since its introduction twenty years ago.

Wives initiate 56% of Circuit Court divorces.

Yes, that's the research I'm referring to. What reservations do you have?

The Courts Service Report you referred to states

"1,271 applications for judicial separation – a 3% decrease on 2013 – the majority (over 70%) in both Circuit Court and High Court by wives"

Judicial Separation is often the first step and sets the scene for a subsequent Divorce which is unlikely to change the terms unless there has been a significant change in circumstances since the judicial separation.

Where judicial separation preceeds a divorce the judicial separation is usually the more contentious as it is where issues regarding children, the family home and other assets are first thrashed out. A subsequent divorce several years later, unless there has been a significant change in circumstances, is usually no more than a non contentious rubber stamping of the status quo established by the judicial separation.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 23-08-2015 08:13AM

Where there is a prenuptial agreement present these stats swing a bit. Kids if they are present are the main problem for the man after that.

fatknacker · 23-08-2015 08:21AM

As a woman, I just can't wait to find the man of my dreams, marry him and divorce him 15-20 years later.

osarusan · 23-08-2015 08:22AM

Who would have thought the serial PUA rereg would talk such nonsense, eh?

Rachiee · 23-08-2015 08:23AM

I'd of thought it is more men not wanting to "abandon" the family. Men are raised to think that they must provide for the family it's a strong value, also tree children they aren't very likely to get physical custody in the case of a divorce.

Brian? · 23-08-2015 08:25AM

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Never mind the "woman bashing"

Fact is more women ask for divorce than men

Fact is women come out a lot better in court proceedings, in terms of finances, property and what happens to the children

That's not a "fact" at all.

tritium · 23-08-2015 09:11AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would have thought one obvious explanation would be that men do more things that lead women to ask for a divorce. Violence, cheating, drinking, gambling, child abuse etc. etc.

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

23-08-2015 09:33AM

tritium wrote: »

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Wibbs · 23-08-2015 09:45AM

osarusan wrote: »

Who would have thought the serial PUA rereg would talk such nonsense, eh?

We have a few of those eejits alright, though one is in dire need of professional help. A gee hair away from coming totally unwound IMH.

Most of this crap comes from the US of A and then gets repeated verbatim as "truth" on this side of the pond. For a start divorce rates in Ireland are significantly lower than those of the US. Social safety nets are significantly lower there compared to here too. Though we're awash with their surface cultural influence, Ireland is a very different culture. Even within the US subcultures abound. There's a wide gap between Nebraska and Brooklyn. Still, American culture is hardly one to emulate. For all our faults on this damp little rock, I know which country I'd rather live/grow old/be sick/raise kids in.

As for the PUA types? The actual PUA types who actually leave their basements and actually pick up women are the tiny minority(and TBH IMH more power to them. As the reals deal types will happily admit only a minority of women go for that so it amounts to feck all in the great scheme of things). The vast majority of the PUA types are basement dwellers living vicariously and obsessively through their "gurus" and their "methods" and "adventures", while shilling their guru's businesses wherever they can. The Boards rereg is always at the latter nonsense. Amway for saddos. Serve him and his ilk better to go out and score like they claim. They won't though. They're like the majority of Men going their own way(MGTOW) types. They're avoiding life and using all sorts of excuses to do so.

Hey if you want to not get married and move to the burbs and all that, more power to your elbow, if you're doing it for the right reasons, rather than as an avoidance tactic. If the latter, women(™) ain't the problem, You are.

tritium wrote: »

Its heartening to know that whenever someone opens a generalised gender bashing thread in AH there will always be one or two posters rushing along to ensure the other gender suffers generalised gender bashing in equal measure.....

Wait, heartening wasn't the word I was looking for. Oh yeah...depressing, that was it

+1

tritium · 23-08-2015 09:49AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Well conor. As a reasonably frequent poster I think you're well aware that the points you made are at best very controversial and to a large degree probably downright wrong. Take violence- you are I think aware of the volume of data that shows violence is very much balanced between the genders in relationships. Now not everyone agrees with that I'll grant you, indeed there's a veritable industry in trying to minimise or disprove the incidence if male victims, but the data is there.....

What about cheating? Well the statistics and research there also show a pretty balanced split, which is not really surprising if you think about it

Addiction? Yep traditionally a mans problem more than a woman's. However that gap has been narrowing dramatically in recent years. There's also if I'm being honest something a bit saddening about you using addiction as an excuse for why this is happening, as though somehow that a reasonable reason to leave a marriage. I'm not saying its easy, but you'd be slow to justify someone leaving a marriage where there partner had some other illness, say breast cancer, I suspect so why is this illness so different?

So yeah, seriously!

Wibbs · 23-08-2015 09:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it really gender bashing to suggest that issues that might cause wear and tear in a marriage, drinking, gambling etc. seem to be more prevalent amongst males?

Are you really disheartened to hear someone make that observation? Seriously?

Yes, because it's a gender generalisation that doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. The gender gap for alcohol abuse has narrowed massively in the last few decades, spousal abuse is pretty much 50/50 split between the genders and women are more likely to suffer a drop in libido in marriages and long termers, another stressor there.

jester77 · 23-08-2015 10:51AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Another woman bashing thread then. When we aren't tricking men into raising another guys child, we're marrying and divorcing just to get some property and money. Sure what other reason would there be for leaving a marriage?

He forgot the mother in laws birthday

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 10:59AM

Of course women are more likely to ask for a divorce, chances are they'll also get the car the house and the kids, it's not a bad deal in fairness! :-)

Penny Tration · 23-08-2015 11:02AM

The men here saying they'll never get married because of women having the ability to screw them in court -

You're aware that after five years of cohabiting, or two if you have kids, a separation entitled the partner to some share in property/money?

Guess ye should just never have a relationship to protect yourself from us money grabbing bitches

the evasion_kid · 23-08-2015 11:17AM

For me its the point that they have that option to take you to the cleaners,while most relationships start out with the best intentions doesn't mean a few years down the line things won't go south,in all probability it will,on a side note I don't know if any of yous ever had the misfortune to deal with a woman who thinks with her emotions then acts out of spite...it ain't pretty.

Penny Tration · 23-08-2015 11:31AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

For me its the point that they have that option to take you to the cleaners,while most relationships start out with the best intentions doesn't mean a few years down the line things won't go south,in all probability it will,on a side note I don't know if any of yous ever had the misfortune to deal with a woman who thinks with her emotions then acts out of spite...it ain't pretty.

Men do it, too. As an example - my father refused to pay any maintenance for a while, leaving my mam in a situation where the Vincent de Paul had to help her with Dunnes vouchers for food.

Thankfully, he eventually came to his senses and started paying a reasonable amount of maintenance.

Playboy · 23-08-2015 11:32AM

So pointing out that Women potentially do better in terms of children and finances out of divorce than men is horribly sexist and gender bashing but no one comments on the explanation the study had for the difference?

"Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,”

Sure that explanation (no ideological basis ofc :rolleyes: ) which is published in an international magazine is fine?

The article was published on facebook and the comments on the article (of which there were many as with any click-bait article) were mainly concerned with the observation I raised initially which is why I raised it. Men do feel this way but no reference is made to a male perspective.. what we get instead is a female only perspective where once again women are victims. The only possible reason that divorce initiation rates become skewed in marriage (remember non-marital relationships are 50/50) is because as soon as men get married they don't do any housework or childcare anymore. Marriage somehow changes men so they go back in time 50 or 100 years and take on all the old bad habits that we didn't have when in non-married relationships.

As a husband with a second child on the way that does seem at least as an offensive a conclusion to come to as the conclusion that women initiate divorce more because they get a better deal out of it. Divorce for most most men is a disaster not mainly because of the extra financial burdens but because access to your children can become exponentially more difficult. Women may find it easier to leave an unhappy relationship because they don't have the same worry as they can be confident in becoming the primary caregiver.

strelok · 23-08-2015 11:35AM

Playboy wrote: »

So pointing out that Women potentially do better in terms of children and finances out of divorce than men is horribly sexist and gender bashing but no one comments on the explanation the study had for the difference?

"Wives still take their husbands’ surnames, and are sometimes pressured to do so. Husbands still expect their wives to do the bulk of the housework and the bulk of the childcare,”

Sure that explanation (no ideological basis ofc :rolleyes: ) which is published in an international magazine is fine?

The article was published on facebook and the comments on the article (of which there were many as with any click-bait article) were mainly concerned with the observation I raised initially which is why I raised it. Men do feel this way but no reference is made to a male perspective.. what we get instead is a female only perspective where once again women are victims. The only possible reason that divorce initiation rates become skewed in marriage (remember non-marital relationships are 50/50) is because as soon as men get married they don't do any housework or childcare anymore. Marriage somehow changes men so they go back in time 50 or 100 years and take on all the old bad habits that we didn't have when in non-married relationships.

As a husband with a second child on the way that does seem at least as an offensive a conclusion to come to as the conclusion that women initiate divorce more because they get a better deal out of it. Divorce for most most men is a disaster not mainly because of the extra financial burdens but because access to your children can become exponentially more difficult. Women may find it easier to leave an unhappy relationship because they don't have the same worry as they can be confident in becoming the primary caregiver.

why do you hate women, playboy?

B0jangles · 23-08-2015 11:45AM

So many hateful generalizations about women in this thread

If we're so terrible the answer is blindingly obvious; don't get married and don't have any relationships with women - your precious belongings are safe from the harridans and no women will have to put up with your paranoid hateful self!

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 12:15PM

B0jangles wrote: »

So many hateful generalizations about women in this thread

If we're so terrible the answer is blindingly obvious; don't get married and don't have any relationships with women - your precious belongings are safe from the harridans and no women will have to put up with your paranoid hateful self!

Relax chicken, listen personally I'm not a big fan of marriage, I enjoy a quiet life and I don't really like the idea of spending the rest of my life with the same person, but again that's purely my opinion, not saying I'm right.

But say if 2 people are getting a divorce would the following not be much fairer?

a) whatever each partner took into the marriage (ie land, a business, property etc etc) they retain in full after the divorce.

b) whatever the 2 of them bought or invested in together as a couple gets evenly split, with the amount invested by each party taken into consideration.

c) equal custody of the children, this is a no brainer wherever it's remotely possible, no normal parent should be denied the right to equal custody.

Do you think that would be a fair way of conducting a divorce for both men and women?

ThinkProgress · 23-08-2015 12:23PM

I think women get bored more easily in a relationship... I really think it's often that simple.

Part of the problem with this imo, is that men tend to have more going on in their social lives outside (or alongside) their relationships. Where as women often tie up far more of their happiness and fun within their relationships...

Women need more from a relationship than most men. I know it's a cliche to say that men often just want sex (and it's also somewhat over simplistic too), but it's also somewhat true!

If you hang a higher % of your life happiness and fulfillment on your marriage, then obviously it's not hard to understand why you'd be quicker to divorce when that marriage becomes slightly less fulfilling.

Many male hobbies can be the indirect cause of break-ups in my experience. Because women start to resent the man having fun that isn't directly related to their happiness. (instead of cultivating their own hobbies/interests that might give them the same enjoyment/fulfillment)

Colser · 23-08-2015 12:24PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Relax chicken, listen personally I'm not a big fan of marriage, I enjoy a quiet life and I don't really like the idea of spending the rest of my life with the same person, but again that's purely my opinion, not saying I'm right.

But say if 2 people are getting a divorce would the following not be much fairer?

a) whatever each partner took into the marriage (ie land, a business, property etc etc) they retain in full after the divorce.

b) whatever the 2 of them bought or invested in together as a couple gets evenly split, with the amount invested by each party taken into consideration.

c) equal custody of the children, this is a no brainer wherever it's remotely possible, no normal parent should be denied the right to equal custody.

Do you think that would be a fair way of conducting a divorce for both men and women?

What about women who give up work to stay at home and rear the children ect. should they walk away with nothing after a relationship breakdown? Do a lot of men really want equal custody as in 50/50?

zeffabelli · 23-08-2015 12:28PM

It's easier, not that it's ever easy mind you, to initiate divorce, when you don't have to be scared of the real possibility you will never ever live with your children again.

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 12:33PM

Colser wrote: »

What about women who give up work to stay at home and rear the children ect. should they walk away with nothing after a relationship breakdown? Do a lot of men really want equal custody as in 50/50?

Well generally speaking women choose to have children and hence often choose to give up work (not every woman does) and rear their children, it's not inflicted upon them and they get support from the state as well.

They certainly shouldn't walk away from a relationship with nothing, they should walk away with whatever they brought in plus whatever half of what they invested in as a couple.

No some men probably don't want equal custody and therefore it shouldn't be the default position, but if a man requests equal custody and there's no reason not to give it to him then he should get it.

Is what I've said not fair and equal?

ahnowbrowncow · 23-08-2015 12:36PM

B0jangles wrote: »

So many hateful generalizations about women in this thread

If we're so terrible the answer is blindingly obvious; don't get married and don't have any relationships with women - your precious belongings are safe from the harridans and no women will have to put up with your paranoid hateful self!

I would have said there's many generalszations about both genders in this thread.

I want generalisation equality.

Colser · 23-08-2015 12:38PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well generally speaking women choose to have children and hence often choose to give up work (not every woman does) and rear their children, it's not inflicted upon them and they get support from the state as well.

They certainly shouldn't walk away from a relationship with nothing, they should walk away with whatever they brought in plus whatever half of what they invested in as a couple.

No some men probably don't want equal custody and therefore it shouldn't be the default position, but if a man requests equal custody and there's no reason not to give it to him then he should get it.

Is what I've said not fair and equal?

Can you expand on the above?

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 12:42PM

Colser wrote: »

Can you expand on the above?

You don't get to ask all the questions, answer mine first please, this is a give and take.

ThinkProgress · 23-08-2015 12:45PM

Colser wrote: »

Can you expand on the above?

I don't really see what he needs to expand on. His post was quite clear and easy to understand.

Colser · 23-08-2015 12:50PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

You don't get to ask all the questions, answer mine first please, this is a give and take.

No prob:)
..Im actually for all things being equal but it may not be straightforward.For example I cut down my working hours when I had a child,it that just my loss? I could have worked on full time and we would have paid childmindingso would that not have to be reflected in a split? Also a lot of couples decide to have a child together and accidents arent just down to woman so Im still asking you to reply to my previous post.Is that fair enough?:P

Huntergonzo · 23-08-2015 01:03PM

Colser wrote: »

No prob:)
..Im actually for all things being equal but it may not be straightforward.For example I cut down my working hours when I had a child,it that just my loss? I could have worked on full time and we would have paid childmindingso would that not have to be reflected in a split? Also a lot of couples decide to have a child together and accidents arent just down to woman so Im still asking you to reply to my previous post.Is that fair enough?:P

Haha hang on now, I never said 'accidents' were just down to women, not sure where that came from.

Now if you cut down your hours then fairplay, you wanted to spend more time with your child and that's your call. I don't know your financial situation or entitlements but cutting down your hours could effect the household income, but I'm sure your child must gain from having a parent around more often.

Should this be reflected in a split, not entirely sure what you mean there but I'll answer simply like this. I think if a child has 2 normal loving parents who both want custody then the only fair way is an even split, neither the mother nor the father should get preference, I don't know if you agree with that, but it's my view of it.

Women more likely to ask for divorce

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