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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • #5252
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    pwurple wrote: »
    State of you is right.

    Ah you're too kind :D


  • #5253
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Coronavirus: 310 more cases as school detections rise by 60% (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-310-more-cases-as-school-detections-rise-by-60-1.4432849

    Heres some bedtime reading for you all.


  • #5254
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    I see the boys school in Claremorris was advised today by the public health team to remain open despite a fair few positive cases in the school and a text to that effect was sent to parents this afternoon. Parents told by principal that is they decide to keep their kids at home that they have their full support.

    Emergency board meeting this evening and parents informed that school will be closed with immediate effect until January the 6th due to the deteriorating covid situation in the school.


  • #5255
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I see the boys school in Claremorris was advised today by the public health team to remain open despite a fair few positive cases in the school and a text to that effect was sent to parents this afternoon. Parents told by principal that is they decide to keep their kids at home that they have their full support.

    Emergency board meeting this evening and parents informed that school will be closed with immediate effect until January the 6th due to the deteriorating covid situation in the school.

    Good swift action taken by the school.

    Weldone.


  • #5256
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    Boggles wrote: »
    Jaysus even Sweden has buckled.

    This is the same measure they took in March - schools closed for those aged over 15. And their infection rate is at least 9 times our infection rate.


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  • #5257
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Good swift action taken by the school.

    Weldone.

    Be interesting to see what blowback there is from the DES.

    The Kerry school at Halloween comes to mind as the DES don't like to be challenged. Also for a school to be so publicly going against and ignoring the public health team screams of a lack of confidence in what they have been informed and told.


  • #5258
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Be interesting to see what blowback there is from the DES.

    The Kerry school at Halloween comes to mind as the DES don't like to be challenged. Also for a school to be so publicly going against and ignoring the public health team screams of a lack of confidence in what they have been informed and told.

    any link to this story ? It’ll be interesting to see des reaction / media presentation of the story.


  • #5259
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    selectamatic wrote: »
    It has been outlined on this very thread that this interpretation of "unforseen school closures" is wrong. And to you in particular Lillyfae.

    This circular is in relation to things such as snow days, no electricity, no running water, flooded schools etc.

    It is not for use in rearranging department set school holidays.

    It has been made pertinently clear over the last few months that the dept will not tolerate individual principals making public health decisions even if there is a live outbreak in their school.

    So they're hardly going to say shur belt ahead and close there if ye want to on health grounds just make the days up whenever ye can.

    You'll forgive me if I choose to ignore people on the internet telling me how they "interpret" a document when it's there in black and white that it can be done, without interpretation. Especially this year. Unless you are talking about just getting extra days off, which I am not. Here it is AGAIN, there is clearly flexibility in it. That's not an interpretation, that is what it says: https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0005_2020.pdf
    In cases where a school has been affected by extensive or prolonged
    school closures (e.g. due to weather, etc.) and where the school authority
    considers that the above measures will not adequately address the loss in
    tuition involved, the school authority may, having established what
    arrangements for school transport may or may not be feasible if other
    schools are remaining closed, decide to implement either or both of the
    following contingency arrangements:

    Weather is AN EXAMPLE. It's not the only reason a school may need/want to close.

    Was also a very weird choice to stop on Tuesday the 22nd and go back on Wednesday the 6th. Stop on a Friday and go back on a Monday, makes way more sense.


  • #5260
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    You'll forgive me if I choose to ignore people on the internet telling me how they "interpret" a document when it's there in black and white that it can be done, without interpretation. Especially this year. Unless you are talking about just getting extra days off, which I am not. Here it is AGAIN, there is clearly flexibility in it. That's not an interpretation, that is what it says: https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0005_2020.pdf



    Weather is AN EXAMPLE. It's not the only reason a school may need/want to close.

    Was also a very weird choice to stop on Tuesday the 22nd and go back on Wednesday the 6th. Stop on a Friday and go back on a Monday, makes way more sense.

    Principals do not have the autonomy that you appear to think they have.


  • #5261
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    History Queen wrote: »
    Principals do not have the autonomy that you appear to think they have.

    I am sure she has discussed this indepth with the teachers in her family, strange they didnt tell her this.


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  • #5262
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    History Queen wrote: »
    Principals do not have the autonomy that you appear to think they have.

    I think at this stage it’s best to leave it be it has been explained a number of times to the poster in question who refuses to acknowledge that she doesn't know what she is talking about in this instant.
    However a clearer example of someone who does not work in the Irish education system but KNOWS exactly the finer details of how it’s run ( those pesky teachers who actually work there haven’t a clue ) and is well able to state opinion as facts I’ve never seen. It reminds me of Walkgate - of how walking the entire school around the locality in the pissing rain equates to education.


  • #5263
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    I sincerely believe that if you all spent less time "interpreting" circulars with your colleagues and principals, your unions would be far more effective.


  • #5264
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    I sincerely believe that if you all spent less time "interpreting" circulars with your colleagues and principals, your unions would be far more effective.

    Oh, and you're not spending your time interpreting something and that's nothing got to do with you? Seriously, who are you to judge what others do in a profession you've never worked in and know nothing about on any real level, in a country you're not living in and in a system that's nothing to do with your kids. Many would love to have your confidence, if that's what you call it.


  • #5265
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    I sincerely believe that if you all spent less time "interpreting" circulars with your colleagues and principals, your unions would be far more effective.

    I don't understand why you are so defensive. It's a fact that principals don't have the autonomy that you think they have and your interpretation of the circular is wrong. No big deal, but you are incorrect about this.


  • #5266
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    If you're a public sector employee then all of the information about employment and employer is freely available. As are the numbers of infections in teachers now.

    Schools are relatively safe. No need to close, although I'm sure we'll be here again before midterm break.


  • #5267
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    It takes a delusionally self-assured type of mindset for a lay person to argue with professionals in their field of expertise, and refuse to listen to the decades of knowledge and experience of the qualified insiders. To claim to interpret a formal document better than thousands of professionals have done in the real world is really something else.


  • #5268
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    If you're a public sector employee then all of the information about employment and employer is freely available. As are the numbers of infections in teachers now.

    Schools are relatively safe. No need to close, although I'm sure we'll be here again before midterm break.

    It is interesting that you are incorrect on your interpretation of the circulars but wont accept that from the experts who work in the area. Not the first time you are incorrect and havent addressed it and probably not the last.


  • #5269
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    History Queen wrote: »
    I don't understand why you are so defensive. It's a fact that principals don't have the autonomy that you think they have and your interpretation of the circular is wrong. No big deal, but you are incorrect about this.

    Nothing defensive. Again, I'm not interpreting it- I'm reading it. I've posted it here for everyone else to read, for transparency. Are you saying it doesn't say what is written there?

    My guess is that principals copy pasted the calendar directly into their own school planning for the year and didn't even question it.


  • #5270
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Nothing defensive. Again, I'm not interpreting it- I'm reading it. I've posted it here for everyone else to read, for transparency. Are you saying it doesn't say what is written there?

    My guess is that principals copy pasted the calendar directly into their own school planning for the year and didn't even question it.

    This is priceless, now principals are mindless bots.


  • #5271
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    khalessi wrote: »
    This is priceless, now principals are mindless bots.

    I'm convinced this is a windup at this stage.

    Isn't it? :eek:


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  • #5272
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    khalessi wrote: »
    It is interesting that you are incorrect on your interpretation of the circulars but wont accept that from the experts who work in the area. Not the first time you are incorrect and havent addressed it and probably not the last.

    It’s mind boggling ! it has been made perfectly clear to principals since Sep that no unilateral action on behalf of schools will be allowed. The role of PH in determining the covid response in each school and the limits of what the school can and can not do has been made abundantly clear -yet a circular which was issued pre pre covid and has not been updated since covid which is abundantly clear , to those WORKING in the field, as to what it relates to is being used to justify an opinion which is incorrect. It might be better if the poster spent less time interpreting the circular and accepted that it does not cover the present situation.


  • #5273
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Nothing defensive. Again, I'm not interpreting it- I'm reading it. I've posted it here for everyone else to read, for transparency. Are you saying it doesn't say what is written there?

    My guess is that principals copy pasted the calendar directly into their own school planning for the year and didn't even question it.

    The act of reading a text involves comprehending and interpretation. I'm saying you are wrong. I don't know why you are choosing this rock to perish on. The school calandar is standardised and published every three years with a little wiggle room around croke park hours/starting a day or two early to 'bank' those days for later in the year (i think primary have a bit more flexibility around summer term midterms but I'm not sure).

    The circular you are referring to, specifically around school closures does not apply to covid as proven by the school in Kerry.

    I don't know why you can't won't accept this.


  • #5274
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    History Queen wrote: »
    The school calandar is standardised and published every three years with a little wiggle room around croke park hours/starting a day or two early to 'bank' those days for later in the year (i think primary have a bit more flexibility around summer term midterms but I'm not sure).

    But this is exactly what I'm referring to :confused:


  • #5275
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    I sincerely believe that if you all spent less time "interpreting" circulars with your colleagues and principals, your unions would be far more effective.
    I'm beginning to believe we've been had by a troll for months now if this is really your answer.


  • #5276
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Blondini wrote: »
    It takes a delusionally self-assured type of mindset for a lay person to argue with professionals in their field of expertise, and refuse to listen to the decades of knowledge and experience of the qualified insiders.

    That is a really interesting statement and one I agree with. But have teachers on here not suggested over and over how NPHET should do their job?


  • #5277
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    It is interesting that you are incorrect on your interpretation of the circulars but wont accept that from the experts who work in the area. Not the first time you are incorrect and havent addressed it and probably not the last.

    Since we all agree that we should listen to experts this debate is unnecessary. Health experts think school year should be as planned so lets listen to them.


  • #5278
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    That is a really interesting statement and one I agree with. But have teachers on here not suggested over and over how NPHET should do their job?

    Nphet have made recommendations, govt have ignored them. Who have made recommendations, govt has ignored them. That's the issue.


  • #5279
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Nphet have made recommendations, govt have ignored them. Who have made recommendations, govt has ignored them. That's the issue.

    NPHET have not made any recommendations about schools that the government have gone against that I am aware of. The recent discussion is about whether schools should shut early, look at what Germany is doing etc. Our own experts have not made a recommendation about closing early.


  • #5280
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    NPHET have not made any recommendations about schools that the government have gone against that I am aware of. The recent discussion is about whether schools should shut early, look at what Germany is doing etc. Our own experts have not made a recommendation about closing early.

    Yes but ours are not the right type of experts...


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  • #5281
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Since we all agree that we should listen to experts this debate is unnecessary. Health experts think school year should be as planned so lets listen to them.

    Thank you, for your interpretation of my statement which refered to teachers and the circulars but sure you are welcome not to post any more based on the above.


This discussion has been closed.
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