The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

irishguitarlad · 16-10-2019 10:29pm

Just back from seeing this, I loved It. Outstanding performances, great cinematography, music choice. I also liked the messages on wealth distribution and mental health. Fantastic.

Lesalare · 16-10-2019 11:29pm

Edit.

17-10-2019 12:06am

SNL's one good joke of the decade

shamrock55 · 17-10-2019 1:17am

I actually found the laughing thing really annoying

Fingers Mcginty · 17-10-2019 10:22am

That bathroom scene post train incident was so poignant. What an amazing piece and with the cello brooding away in the background. Goodbye Arthur hello Joker.

17-10-2019 10:27am

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

That bathroom scene post train incident was so poignant. What an amazing piece and with the cello brooding away in the background. Goodbye Arthur hello Joker.

Remind me. What happened in that scene?

yourdeadwright · 17-10-2019 10:31am

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

That bathroom scene post train incident was so poignant. What an amazing piece and with the cello brooding away in the background. Goodbye Arthur hello Joker.

I seen a very interesting video on youtube and it showed loads of the outtakes that never made the movie and spoke about scene's that changed from the originally script,

That was one scene that changed and i'm glad it did as it was brilliant originally he was going to try and shoot himself in the bathroom ,

Also some other major differences ,

tylercheribini · 17-10-2019 10:34am

So when Joker attacks "Bankers" in self-defence it is unacceptable but when the women in Hustlers drug and rob "Bankers" it's empowering?

SJW Lover · 17-10-2019 12:18pm

Masterpiece in my opinion. Best film i have seen in years.

Regarding the rioting - throughout the first part of the film there was references to garbage piling up and disquiet amongst the "have nots" as to how the city was being run. Wayne was shown on tv saying that he was the only candidate that could save the city. So, the city needed saving and was in bad nick with public services being pulled. Arthur's medication was defunded. So i dont think that it is entirely unbelievable that the murder on a train of 3 young yuppies who worked for the Wayne company by a murderous clown would not be the light needed for the touchpaper.

The final scene with the psychiatrist in Arkham was my favourite. When Arthur tells the shrink that she wouldnt get the joke he was thinking of, i took that as Arthur talking to us, the audience. If you're unquestioningly plugged into the mainstream how would you get anything he finds funny?

That's my hot take on it. Probably needs a second viewing to be honest. But a long time since i have left the cinema as impressed.

pixelburp · 17-10-2019 12:32pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

So when Joker attacks "Bankers" in self-defence it is unacceptable but when the women in Hustlers drug and rob "Bankers" it's empowering?

Whataboutery, but I haven't seen any consensus that attacking the bankers was unacceptable?

IMO bad writing as a spark towards class riots, and the characters were straight out of the cupboard marked "80s yuppy clichés", but not seeing any great swell of outrage in its own right TBH.

lola85 · 17-10-2019 2:25pm

Did Randall initially give him the gun for the right reasons?

Fingers Mcginty · 17-10-2019 10:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Remind me. What happened in that scene?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kshsj-gyXq0

Pineapple1 · 17-10-2019 10:15pm

I see gary glitters song in the movie is at No.2 in the Irish Spotify chart (viral)

peteeeed · 17-10-2019 10:22pm

Stories out today that glitter had sold all his rights to the song quite some time ago so won't get any royalties

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-10-11/joker-gary-glitter-rock-and-roll-part-2

tylercheribini · 17-10-2019 10:54pm

peteeeed wrote: »

Stories out today that glitter had sold all his rights to the song quite some time ago so won't get any royalties

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-10-11/joker-gary-glitter-rock-and-roll-part-2

A masterstroke including song,generating lots of extra contrived controversy, feels very orchestrated.

HighLine · 17-10-2019 11:34pm

peteeeed wrote: »

Stories out today that glitter had sold all his rights to the song quite some time ago so won't get any royalties

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-10-11/joker-gary-glitter-rock-and-roll-part-2

Hopefully that will put all the snowflakes and easily offended at ease.

peteeeed · 18-10-2019 9:02am

HighLine wrote: »

Hopefully that will put all the snowflakes and easily offended at ease.

don't know about that , people didn't want the P*ick getting any money and rightly so (to me a snowflake is when piers morgan cried for a month on twitter about a vegan sausage )
the song fits the scene so well so i'm glad its all sorted

blinding · 18-10-2019 9:23am

tylercheribini wrote: »

So when Joker attacks "Bankers" in self-defence it is unacceptable but when the women in Hustlers drug and rob "Bankers" it's empowering?

Come on now . You know how it works these days .

Women can do as they please and men do as they are told .

peteeeed · 18-10-2019 9:38am

blinding wrote: »

Come on now . You know how it works these days .

Women can do as they please and men do as they are told .

yes we men have it so hard , poor us

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 9:48am

We just inventing outrage to be outraged about now? Haven't read any serious consensus that suggests the Bankers scene was beyond the pale 🤷

blinding · 18-10-2019 11:08am

peteeeed wrote: »

yes we men have it so hard , poor us

You sound like a woman .

peteeeed · 18-10-2019 12:31pm

blinding wrote: »

You sound like a woman .

haha its just all the man babies moaning all the time, the right wing media has managed to convince white straight men that they are the ones who are oppressed , even the director of this movie had a bit of a cry but that's a discussion for another thread

anyway i loved this movie , best I've seen all year

18-10-2019 12:40pm

peteeeed wrote: »

haha its just all the man babies moaning all the time, the right wing media has managed to convince white straight men that they are the ones who are oppressed , even the director of this movie had a bit of a cry but that's a discussion for another thread

Ha. How reductionist. I suppose that's what happens when the left mainstream media convince anyone who isn't a straight white male, that they have less privilege and should expect straight white men to apologise for things that are out of their control.

The film was great. The selfish part of me wants a sequel but deep down I know it would more than likely dilute the impact this had.

Chris_Heilong · 18-10-2019 4:59pm

peteeeed wrote: »

haha its just all the man babies moaning all the time, the right wing media has managed to convince white straight men that they are the ones who are oppressed , even the director of this movie had a bit of a cry but that's a discussion for another thread

anyway i loved this movie , best I've seen all year

And just look at the reaction this film received from the idiot critics who seem to have no integrity and give a film a low score due to their own politics rather than if the film is actually good or not. In the past left/Right and everyone in-between used to be able to enjoy things together, what the hell happened.

BTW the Joker did not even deal with politics at all IMO and I think most of the hate was down to the Directer pointing out how outrage culture has ruined comedy.

Foxtrol · 18-10-2019 5:37pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

And just look at the reaction this film received from the idiot critics who seem to have no integrity and give a film a low score due to their own politics rather than if the film is actually good or not. In the past left/Right and everyone in-between used to be able to enjoy things together, what the hell happened.

BTW the Joker did not even deal with politics at all IMO and I think most of the hate was down to the Directer pointing out how outrage culture has ruined comedy.

I don't go out of my way to read many critics but the majority of the ones posters specifically moaned about on this thread had understandable issues with the movie. This movie has many flaws that have absolutely nothing to do with politics.

Chris_Heilong · 18-10-2019 5:47pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't go out of my way to read many critics but the majority of the ones posters specifically moaned about on this thread had understandable issues with the movie. This movie has many flaws that have absolutely nothing to do with politics.

Pull the other leg, Film critics at least the modern day incarnation of what used to be called a film critic is filled with politically motivate ideologues, Just looking at the disparity of Critic vs Audience score on some thing like Rotten tomatoes shows how out of touch and misguided these people are.

The White Wolf · 18-10-2019 5:56pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Pull the other leg, Film critics at least the modern day incarnation of what used to be called a film critic is filled with politically motivate ideologues, Just looking at the disparity of Critic vs Audience score on some thing like Rotten tomatoes shows how out of touch and misguided these people are.

I think there has always been a disparity between critic and audience on certain films, but I absolutely agree political ideologues have invaded the art of film criticism.

The problem is that RT added hundreds of critics as part of a diversity drive. There are critics now under their umbrella who openly admit that they score films based on how PC they are, I **** you not.

Foxtrol · 18-10-2019 6:01pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Pull the other leg, Film critics at least the modern day incarnation of what used to be called a film critic is filled with politically motivate ideologues, Just looking at the disparity of Critic vs Audience score on some thing like Rotten tomatoes shows how out of touch and misguided these people are.

For someone who claims to want everyone to hold hands and watch movies together in peace you have some very aggressive opinions about people who disagree with you.

Plenty of posters far more eloquent than I have gone into detail of numerous issues they have with the movie, I presume you throw them into the same bucket as the critics.

I try not to stress about critic or audience scores, most of the time they're both incredibly flawed. It is however very easy to just point to them as some sort of proof rather than try to discuss the deeper issues raised.

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 6:55pm

Here's a mad idea, how about we stick to discussing the film, instead of this tired, inevitable "why I hate critics etc etc" every damn thread descends into, coupled with phantom whataboutery for good measure. Read more whinging about agendas than the agendas themselves.

Kinda ironic to complain about critics not just reviewing the film, when that's what this thread has become :rolleyes:

The White Wolf · 18-10-2019 7:41pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Kinda ironic to complain about critics not just reviewing the film, when that's what this thread has become :rolleyes:

As I pointed out earlier, there are sites specifically dedicated to rating films based on how PC they are.

What's your opinion on that? It's a new enough craze as I can only imagine how The Dark Knight would have been received in this day and age.

Ironicname · 18-10-2019 7:49pm

The White Wolf wrote:

What's your opinion on that? It's a new enough craze as I can only imagine how The Dark Knight would have been received in this day and age.

Ha. Imagine blazing saddles

pixelburp · 18-10-2019 7:57pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

As I pointed out earlier, there are sites specifically dedicated to rating films based on how PC they are.

What's your opinion on that? It's a new enough craze as I can only imagine how The Dark Knight would have been received in this day and age.

Start a thread and find out

but there's a site or sub reddit out there for every walk of life so not sure what some random niche movie site proves. At least they're up front about their agenda, previous posts were just the usual shotgun "f*ck critics" ranting that's in every second thread now. Like I said I read more whinging about pc agendas than actual pc agendas. There's loads of Christian movie review sites out there, , does that mean film criticism is awash with God botherers? Of course not. But when folks share reviews from the Guardian (or similar) that - surprise - prints an editorialised review, then IMO people are just seeking reasons for a whinge

johnny_ultimate · 18-10-2019 9:30pm

The levels of ‘anti-woke’ Internet whinging surpassed the actual levels of critical wokeness a long time ago.

ziedth · 18-10-2019 11:24pm

I saw it tonight, I thought it was excellent. Somebody earlier mentioned Gangs of New York and Daniel Day Lewis and while Joker is a considerably better film I think it's very similar in that the acting just raises it up a level.

Cinema I went to was packed and I can tell you for Waterford a film in its second week doesn't get packed.

A win all around in my opinion and I hope they leave it at that.

TherapyBoy · 19-10-2019 12:30am

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

ETA: Should add that the only thing I hated was the end in a certain alley with a certain family after a certain movie. In fact, it was kind of spoiled for me beforehand but I think I wasn't prepared for how bad it would be in context. So forced. So unnecessary.
I hate it when the hero's origin and the villain's origin are changed to be connected.

Completely agree! It was so unecessary, didn’t add anything to or fit properly with the film. They could honestly have left the entire

Wayne family

part out of the movie altogether & it would have lost nothing.

Pineapple1 · 19-10-2019 12:33am

Seen it for the second time tonight, just as gripping the first time. Loved the little bits of comedy here and there throughout ie "dont forget to smile!" scribbled out to say "dont smile"! And of course walking into the exit door at the hospital. JPs performance at the end when Joker was on the Murray show was brilliant. Whats peoples theory though on the bloody footprints in the final scene? Did he kill the social worker/counsellor? Also, why was the "girlfriends" death not shown whereas every other death was, was there any significance to that?

19-10-2019 2:05am

pixelburp wrote: »

Here's a mad idea, how about we stick to discussing the film, instead of this tired, inevitable "why I hate critics etc etc" every damn thread descends into, coupled with phantom whataboutery for good measure. Read more whinging about agendas than the agendas themselves.

Kinda ironic to complain about critics not just reviewing the film, when that's what this thread has become :rolleyes:

I don't hate critics, I just think it's a joke of a profession barring the very rare exception, especially in this day and age.

'Phantom whataboutery'...'anti-wokeness'...Jesus actually wept.

peteeeed · 19-10-2019 7:56am

I'm not much of a comic book reader but I'm interested to know has Thomas Wayne ever been portrayed in this way before? In Most of the batman movies he's been very much for the people and someone Bruce looked up to

lola85 · 19-10-2019 12:36pm

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

^^^^^
He totally killed the therapist at the end, no question. The reason I suspect it wasn't explicitly shown is for the same reason why they didn't show his love interest and her daughter's death: the film was too timid to show the murder of people who didn't deserve it. Literally, every person Joker killed kind of had it coming. The film does want us to sympathise with Arthur and you can't really do that when he's killing the "good" people.

Did he kill her though?

henryporter · 19-10-2019 12:40pm

lola85 wrote: »

Did he kill her though?

Definitely

tigger123 · 19-10-2019 1:40pm

lola85 wrote: »

Did he kill her though?

I didn't see any evidence of it. And am kind of baffled by the idea at all.

xboxdad · 19-10-2019 2:30pm

Is this movie shocking for a 14 year old who watched all Breaking Bad episodes and loved it?

pixelburp · 19-10-2019 2:31pm

xboxdad wrote: »

Is this movie shocking for a 14 year old who watched all Breaking Bad episodes and loved it?

Probably, given what you're saying but whether he gets in is another matter. Some cinemas are applying a very strict 16+ only policy, so he may not get in.

Necro · 19-10-2019 2:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't hate critics, I just think it's a joke of a profession barring the very rare exception, especially in this day and age.

'Phantom whataboutery'...'anti-wokeness'...Jesus actually wept.

I have the same opinion tbh re: critics. Far more interested in being PC than actually doing some critical analysis.

Rotten Tomatoes in particular has lost all credibility for me in the past 3-4 years.

xboxdad · 19-10-2019 2:33pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Probably, given what you're saying but whether he gets in is another matter. Some cinemas are applying a very strict 16+ only policy, so he may not get in.

Apart from the cinema issue, you meant "probably not" or? Thank you.

Sad Professor · 19-10-2019 2:36pm

Film should be 18s imo and probably would have been had there been anything sexual in it.

xboxdad · 19-10-2019 2:41pm

According to BBFC both BB and Joker are 15+.
That's why I'm trying to get a feel of how much "worse" Joker can be.

Weltsmertz · 19-10-2019 3:41pm

xboxdad wrote: »

According to BBFC both BB and Joker are 15+.
That's why I'm trying to get a feel of how much "worse" Joker can be.

It's not so much that it's worse. And kids these days are exposed to so much screen violence that that would not be an issue.
But Joker has adult themes about alienation and disconnection and is a movie made for adults.
Don't think a 14 year old would get it. He would be bored. Possibly slightly disturbed as well.

Weltsmertz · 19-10-2019 3:46pm

lola85 wrote: »

Did he kill her though?

henryporter wrote: »

Definitely

tigger123 wrote: »

I didn't see any evidence of it. And am kind of baffled by the idea at all.

It is left deliberately open to interpretation. I think he did and it would be true to the character to do so. He only killed those that hurt him and she definitely did albeit unintentionally.
However showing him killing Sophie would have lost him a lot of sympathy with some members of the audience.
So. My interpretation. He did but the director or studio decided not to explicitly show it.

Sad Professor · 19-10-2019 3:53pm

xboxdad wrote: »

According to BBFC both BB and Joker are 15+.
That's why I'm trying to get a feel of how much "worse" Joker can be.

It's not like Breaking Bad, which was basically a morality play with cartoonish violence.

The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

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