Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Dyr · 08-11-2017 3:03pm

L1011 wrote: »

http://pardueassociates.com/projects/cie-the-irish-transport-authority

In the past there was a lot more online about the CIE 2000 font; does appear to be what the onboard signage is in still.

Cost of replacing a few plaques isn't going to run that high anyway.

the dublin bus timetable font and design cost a fortune and it was awful

dublinman1990 · 08-11-2017 11:57pm

Dublinbuses.com has given an update to say that further Streetlites from Wrights ordered by the NTA will be with GA.

12 GTs and 48 SGs are to be removed from the current Dublin Bus fleet during 2018 by the NTA to be provided for new operator Go-Ahead. These 60 displaced buses, plus 40 older buses will be replaced by a new order of 100 SGs commencing delivery to Dublin Bus from February 2018. Further deliveries of WS type buses will be ordered by the NTA to be operated by Go-Ahead.

Are there not Dublin Bus plaques visible on the driver seat doors? Do all of the soon transferred buses currently have them?

AlekSmart · 09-11-2017 1:34am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Dublinbuses.com has given an update to say that further Streetlites from Wrights ordered by the NTA will be with GA.

Are there not Dublin Bus plaques visible on the driver seat doors? Do all of the soon transferred buses currently have them?

It should be noted that the NTA only have call on Bus Atha Cliath vehicles after 2012.

Thus,only GT and SG types are involved in the allocation to be transferred to Go-Ahead Dublin.

The older buses mentioned are those now falling outside the 14 year age limit for PSO work,but bearing in mind that the NTA may decide to extend this age limit in recognition of the capacity issues now reaching crisis levels on some corridors.

devnull · 09-11-2017 11:42pm

On the topic of Streetlites, the first one has now been delivered to Dublin Bus.

See the last three images here:
http://www.dublinbuses.com/ws/wsindex.html

punisher5112 · 09-11-2017 11:47pm

So it will be 1st time db will have anything without a Volvo plant since 1994 when they started using them.

L1011 · 09-11-2017 11:51pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

So it will be 1st time db will have anything without a Volvo plant since 1994 when they started using them.

The DTs don't have Volvo engines, and the Imps didn't either so I think they've continuously had (some) non Volvo kit.

Stephen15 · 09-11-2017 11:56pm

devnull wrote: »

On the topic of Streetlites, the first one has now been delivered to Dublin Bus.

See the last three images here:
http://www.dublinbuses.com/ws/wsindex.html

They should have middle doors IMO. Bit of weird looking bus aswell.

devnull · 09-11-2017 11:57pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

They should have middle doors IMO.

Don't think they should, they're too small to have middle doors if you ask me, they're a midi bus, not a full size single deck.

bk · 09-11-2017 11:59pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

They should have middle doors IMO.

Of course I'd normally agree and I did think it when I looked at the pics. But I assume these are only for the very quietest of local routes. They look to be almost half the size of the single deckers in Cork, so I'm not sure they'd even have enough room for a second door.

devnull · 10-11-2017 12:12am

bk wrote: »

Of course I'd normally agree and I did think it when I looked at the pics. But I assume these are only for the very quietest of local routes. They look to be almost half the size of the single deckers in Cork, so I'm not sure they'd even have enough room for a second door.

I believe the Dublin Bus Streetlites are 10.2m.

Aircoach have a Streetlite Max at the airport with two doors which is 11.5m.

The Volvo / Wright Eclipse single deckers in Cork would be 12.1m.

bk · 10-11-2017 12:17am

devnull wrote: »

I believe the Dublin Bus Streetlites are 10.2m.

Aircoach have a Streetlite Max at the airport with two doors which is 11.5m.

The Volvo / Wright Eclipse single deckers in Cork would be 12.1m.

Ah, ok, clearly not as small as it looks in the picture so. Thanks

L1011 · 10-11-2017 12:30am

bk wrote: »

Of course I'd normally agree and I did think it when I looked at the pics. But I assume these are only for the very quietest of local routes. They look to be almost half the size of the single deckers in Cork, so I'm not sure they'd even have enough room for a second door.

In DB use, they're for one specific route, the 44B which is extremely quiet.

What the rest of the order will be used for looks to be light orbital services.

devnull · 10-11-2017 12:34am

L1011 wrote: »

In DB use, they're for one specific route, the 44B which is extremely quiet.

What the rest of the order will be used for looks to be light orbital services.

They may end up going for longer versions such as the 10.8m or 11.5m for the other routes, from what I believe the 44B requires a short vehicle because of the nature of the route so might be scope for two doors on those.

dublinman1990 · 10-11-2017 1:56am

I've just seen some comparison photos here between WV52 & WS1 from Dublinbuscc on Facebook.

22366780_1264987050273498_5444293935189247394_n.jpg?oh=dbb6355b4e3e04a5d4104da36c531d93&oe=5A679490

22366780_1264987050273498_5444293935189247394_n.jpg?oh=dbb6355b4e3e04a5d4104da36c531d93&oe=5A679490

23472388_1264987053606831_3596481542527727618_n.jpg?oh=03cf1242b09b46fe578e7c6ac9721e52&oe=5AB04C35

23376618_1264987046940165_7848881228026688880_n.jpg?oh=2543c900a8fc91520e5245363a156bca&oe=5AA2AB9F

23376426_1264987123606824_4147530999161111524_n.jpg?oh=cafb199be25dfc7ec66dfac1cbc5539d&oe=5A9F928F

dfx- · 10-11-2017 2:42am

I've heard about the 'upcoming' DB fleet expansion now for several years and every year it will be included with the new batch of buses. Now buses are being redirected to someone else and still old and very good AVs are still being taken off the road.

Is the Dublin Bus fleet expansion only going to happen when we all have flying cars?

Cookie_Monster · 10-11-2017 3:04am

Seems a bit of a wasted opportunity not to deliver them in new spec NTA livery so soon before it'll be required anyway.

punisher5112 · 10-11-2017 6:40am

L1011 wrote: »

The DTs don't have Volvo engines, and the Imps didn't either so I think they've continuously had (some) non Volvo kit.

Forgot about the imps, and the daf back which in ,94 for the daf and up to 98 for the imp.

KD345 · 10-11-2017 9:01am

dfx- wrote: »

I've heard about the 'upcoming' DB fleet expansion now for several years and every year it will be included with the new batch of buses. Now buses are being redirected to someone else and still old and very good AVs are still being taken off the road.

Is the Dublin Bus fleet expansion only going to happen when we all have flying cars?

The Dublin Bus fleet has expanded by over 70 buses in the last three years alone, with a fleet size of now just over 1000 buses. There have been enhancements to routes like the 15, 39a, 145, 84x and new routes introduced such as the college services to DCU, 39x, 68x etc.

brokenarms · 10-11-2017 11:23am

If there is expansion happening. Where are they going to park them? All garages are stuffed full as far as have heard.

devnull · 10-11-2017 11:31am

dfx- wrote: »

I've heard about the 'upcoming' DB fleet expansion now for several years and every year it will be included with the new batch of buses. Now buses are being redirected to someone else and still old and very good AVs are still being taken off the road.

Is the Dublin Bus fleet expansion only going to happen when we all have flying cars?

Dublin Buses fleet was expanded this year by 30 buses. Dublin Bus are losing approx 100 buses worth of work but the fleet size is staying the same.

Net result is when Go Ahead start, Dublin Bus will have the same number of buses but less work, which means fleet can be redeployed for the routes they retained.

It means there will be at least a 100 bus increase in buses for Dublin City services.

Stevek101 · 10-11-2017 1:19pm

brokenarms wrote: »

If there is expansion happening. Where are they going to park them? All garages are stuffed full as far as have heard.

Wasn't DB fleet just over 1,200 at its peak. Still 200 more to go to reach that.

bk · 10-11-2017 1:38pm

I think we will have to shift from talking about purely the Dublin Bus fleet and start talking about the "Dublin City Bus Fleet" which will contain buses from both the DB Fleet and the GA Fleet.

As KD345 and devnull point out, there has been increases in the DB fleet, though I suspect over the next few years the DB fleet will remain relatively static and most of the growth in the "Dublin City Bus Fleet" will be in the GA fleet.

Of course from a passenger perspective, they won't care if the bus is coming from DB or GA, extra buses in the overall "Dublin City Bus Fleet" is all they will care about and it is good news for them. Similar to in London.

Having said that, there does seem to be two bits of good news for DB:

1) DB continues to get new buses, allowing them to replace old buses and keep the fleet young, rather then the alternative of all new buses just going to GA and DB's fleet getting older.

2) GA taking over the quieter routes, will mean that DB can reallocate the freed up buses to their remaining busier core routes. This will quite possibly lead to a continued growth in the number of passengers carried by DB, while the fleet remains static, due to better utilisation of buses on bust routes. That could be quiet good news for DB, making their revenue by bus and driver look better.

john boye · 10-11-2017 6:55pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

Wasn't DB fleet just over 1,200 at its peak. Still 200 more to go to reach that.

It was something like that but it's worth remembering that the fleet and the company as a whole was horribly bloated at the time. Merely bringing the fleet up those numbers again is not the answer alone.

Stephen15 · 10-11-2017 7:12pm

L1011 wrote: »

In DB use, they're for one specific route, the 44B which is extremely quiet.

What the rest of the order will be used for looks to be light orbital services.

I do sometimes wonder about that 44b route does it get any use at all for DB to go and buy 2 buses for a service that only runs a few times a day to what is effectively a tiny rural area. If you don't have a car I don't see why you'd buy a house in Glencullen tbh. Also would this service not be better fulfilled by a Local Link service rather than a CIE service.

dfx- · 10-11-2017 7:14pm

brokenarms wrote: »

If there is expansion happening. Where are they going to park them? All garages are stuffed full as far as have heard.

Donnybrook and Harristown have over 200 of the 400+ GT and SGs between them, so probably there.

Can't see much room in Conyngham Road, Ringsend and especially Summerhill.

john boye · 10-11-2017 7:29pm

HSA regulations have reduced the capacity of most garages over the years. As an example, Harristown was built with a capacity of 240 buses (or 220 with 20 artics) but I believe it's much less now.

KD345 · 10-11-2017 8:15pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I do sometimes wonder about that 44b route does it get any use at all for DB to go and buy 2 buses for a service that only runs a few times a day to what is effectively a tiny rural area. If you don't have a car I don't see why you'd buy a house in Glencullen tbh. Also would this service not be better fulfilled by a Local Link service rather than a CIE service.

You shouldn't judge a PSO service based on it's timetable. I have used the 44b occasionally and it usually carries a small handful of others - schoolchildren, hikers, workers and locals. Remember, it's not just a bus for Glencullen, it passes through Kilcross, Lambs Cross, Barnacullia. Granted, none of these are large areas, but are enough to sustain a low frequency peak service.

Routes like the 40B, 41B, 44B, 59, 185 etc are good examples of rural PSO services. They're not there to make profit or carry high loadings, but they keep small communities connected to amenities and other transport links. Personally, I think it is great to see Dublin Bus and NTA investing in two new vehicles to continue this service.

Stephen15 · 10-11-2017 11:31pm

KD345 wrote: »

You shouldn't judge a PSO service based on it's timetable. I have used the 44b occasionally and it usually carries a small handful of others - schoolchildren, hikers, workers and locals. Remember, it's not just a bus for Glencullen, it passes through Kilcross, Lambs Cross, Barnacullia. Granted, none of these are large areas, but are enough to sustain a low frequency peak service.

Routes like the 40B, 41B, 44B, 59, 185 etc are good examples of rural PSO services. They're not there to make profit or carry high loadings, but they keep small communities connected to amenities and other transport links. Personally, I think it is great to see Dublin Bus and NTA investing in two new vehicles to continue this service.

I get that yeah what I'm saying is that it seems like quite a lot of money to be spending on a specific bus type just to operate a route that doesn't get huge usage. The routes you mentioned above do not have their own special bus allocated to them. The 44b has to be operated by a smaller single decker bus as a regular DB double decker bus would not be able to fit on the roads around Glencullen, the smaller bus even struggles as is from what I believe.

It just seems like more hassle than it really is worth running a full DB bus service which has such low usage. I get the concept of a socially nessecary community service and not all DB services are profit makers but a service running with a bus that had to be specifically ordered to a very small area in the Dublin Mountains seems like a slight overkill in my opinion and I would imagine its not that viable.

I see in many rural areas of the country outside Dublin that rural transport schemes, Local Link being the best known example. Perhaps Glencullen and the rural areas that the 44b serves might be better served by a Local Link bus rather than a full DB service.

KD345 · 11-11-2017 3:21pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I get that yeah what I'm saying is that it seems like quite a lot of money to be spending on a specific bus type just to operate a route that doesn't get huge usage. The routes you mentioned above do not have their own special bus allocated to them. The 44b has to be operated by a smaller single decker bus as a regular DB double decker bus would not be able to fit on the roads around Glencullen, the smaller bus even struggles as is from what I believe.

I don’t follow your logic. There’s nothing special about these buses being assigned to the 44B, every route has a number of buses specifically assigned to them (PVR). The buses on the 44B are Wright’s single deck midi buses. The buses on the 40b, 41b, 59, 161 etc are Wright’s double deckers. Are you saying if the 44B was assigned two brand new Wrights double deckers you’d be fine with this instead? The midi buses are much cheaper to purchase/operate than a double decker. I don’t see how having a low frequency bus service to Glencullen is any different to having a low frequency service to Rivermeade, Rockbrook or Rolestown.

Stephen15 wrote: »

It just seems like more hassle than it really is worth running a full DB bus service which has such low usage. I get the concept of a socially nessecary community service and not all DB services are profit makers but a service running with a bus that had to be specifically ordered to a very small area in the Dublin Mountains seems like a slight overkill in my opinion and I would imagine its not that viable.

It is not a ‘full Dublin Bus service’. There are 5 return services per day at peak times Monday to Friday. On one hand you say you understand the necessity of having the service, but then dismiss it because there is a different type of vehicle operating it.

I don’t think Local Link is a reasonable alternative. It’s a great service but falls short of what is currently provided by a timetabled bus service.

I quite like the fact that we are putting appropriate size buses on routes. It seems like this is something the NTA are rolling out further with more single deckers apparently in order.

Stephen15 · 11-11-2017 3:35pm

KD345 wrote: »

I don’t follow your logic. There’s nothing special about these buses being assigned to the 44B, every route has a number of buses specifically assigned to them (PVR). The buses on the 44B are Wright’s single deck midi buses. The buses on the 40b, 41b, 59, 161 etc are Wright’s double deckers. Are you saying if the 44B was assigned two brand new Wrights double deckers you’d be fine with this instead? The midi buses are much cheaper to purchase/operate than a double decker. I don’t see how having a low frequency bus service to Glencullen is any different to having a low frequency service to Rivermeade, Rockbrook or Rolestown.

It is not a ‘full Dublin Bus service’. There are 5 return services per day at peak times Monday to Friday. On one hand you say you understand the necessity of having the service, but then dismiss it because there is a different type of vehicle operating it.

I don’t think Local Link is a reasonable alternative. It’s a great service but falls short of what is currently provided by a timetabled bus service.

I quite like the fact that we are putting appropriate size buses on routes. It seems like this is something the NTA are rolling out further with more single deckers apparently in order.

What I am basically saying is that no other similar local route on the DB network 59, 111, 161 etc. gets its own allocated buses. They are usually only operated by 1 or 2 buses. This may change with introduction of the WS class but the WV class currently exclusively operate the 44B only ocassionally venturing onto other routes primarily the 59, 63 and 111.

Other local routes like the ones you mention are operated by buses which over many different routes usually only high usage, high frequency routes get allocations. What I'm basically is if there was no 44b route or if regular DDs could operate it then DB would not buy any single decker buses

If we had 50+ single deckers operating over a wide range of different routes like we once had then I'd say fair enough. BTW I'm all in for smaller buses to operate local routes. I don't knoe why DB withdraw almost all its single deckers in the first tbh.

Its not a case of DB buying single deckers as the route dosen't require double deckers it's a case that DB has to buy as double deckers would be unable to operate this route a the roads are too narrow for double decker service.

At the end of the day if the route was operated by a regular double decker it would be a lot cheaper to run than presently.

dfx- · 11-11-2017 9:16pm

If there were more WVs or similar single deckers, they'd be out all over the place like they used to be. The good thing right now is there's only one of them.

One would be on the 16 probably like it used to be on the 16A and 130 in the morning, totally incompatible routes for low capacity buses at peak morning services. Or the 123 or 150, I had a nightmare journey on one on the 46A of all places. This current Network Direct system cannot operate with single deckers.

I know it's a new bus and all that, but single deckers are not missed by passengers for very good reason...

punisher5112 · 11-11-2017 9:23pm

Reason they never replaced the wv was cost and servicing as it was better to have one type rather then many different.

Look at the 123 where it was all wv and it couldn't cope.

The wv was way too big for 44b.

The new one I heard is so different and has total different set up so not like any bus they have in the fleet.

Stephen15 · 11-11-2017 9:38pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Reason they never replaced the wv was cost and servicing as it was better to have one type rather then many different.

Look at the 123 where it was all wv and it couldn't cope.

The wv was way too big for 44b.

The new one I heard is so different and has total different set up so not like any bus they have in the fleet.

Yeah it was a bit riddiculous having them on the 123. The smaller single decker are grand for lesser used local routes like the 59, 63, 111, 161 etc.

MGWR · 12-11-2017 7:56am

devnull wrote: »

GoAhead do not set the fares and they do not keep money from the fares, they are paid a set fee from the NTA and this is the model that Dublin Bus will be moving to in the near future as well.

The NTA does not make money. More tax revenue and borrowed money, then.

bk · 13-11-2017 11:14am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yeah it was a bit riddiculous having them on the 123. The smaller single decker are grand for lesser used local routes like the 59, 63, 111, 161 etc.

I'm all for the return of single deckers to routes that only need that at peak time, which I guess we will see a lot more of under BusConnects, with local feeder type services. But god I hope we don't see them back on the 123!

devnull · 20-11-2017 6:10pm

Go-Ahead have now launched their own twitter:
https://twitter.com/GoAheadDublin

Also said to be leasing office accommodation now and have recruited a number of administrative staff in the last few weeks.

Stephen15 · 20-11-2017 6:33pm

devnull wrote: »

Go-Ahead have now launched their own twitter:
https://twitter.com/GoAheadDublin

Also said to be leasing office accommodation now and have recruited a number of administrative staff in the last few weeks.

I hope thats just a promotional page and the NTA will have they're own twitter account up running for when GA start operating the routes so passengers won't be having to tweet both DB and GA for route info/complaints.

dublinman1990 · 15-12-2017 1:24am

Go-Ahead have updated their careers page of their website to include vacancies for new bus drivers.

Bus Drivers Required

We will be recruiting bus drivers from May 2018 and we are looking forward to offering people an attractive and competitive salary of up to €32,000 per annum. We will be recruiting both existing and non-licence holders, with full training being provided for anyone who does not currently hold a PSV licence.

Anyone wishing to submit an expression of interest at this time should complete the form below or email careers@go-aheaddublin.ie and we will be in touch when we start actively recruiting during 2018.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/careers/

soundman45 · 15-12-2017 11:39am

32k is ok but I doubt that would tempt any drivers to switch from dublin bus to go ahead. I would say the will struggle to get drivers from rival companies as established drivers say at aircoach or swords express for example won't move for that and may well end up training most of their new drivers and start them on 25k rising to 32k over a few years.

devnull · 15-12-2017 11:41am

It's not said what the starting wage is, but bear in mind this is likely to be the core salary, not including any premiums and extras for example that as we know are pretty commonplace in the state companies.

The fact they are offering to train up new drivers however is a good sign.

end of the road · 15-12-2017 2:48pm

soundman45 wrote: »

32k is ok but I doubt that would tempt any drivers to switch from dublin bus to go ahead. I would say the will struggle to get drivers from rival companies as established drivers say at aircoach or swords express for example won't move for that and may well end up training most of their new drivers and start them on 25k rising to 32k over a few years.

agreed, the wage itself is unlikely to get people switching to go ahead from other companies. i guess it will depend on perks and other allowences if any that are offered.
however it's possible some starting out or wanting to get in to the industry might take up with them with an aim to eventually get into other companies. go ahead would give them the experience they need to get driving jobs elsewhere.
time will tell.

IE 222 · 16-12-2017 12:08am

Have they sourced depots yet

Stephen15 · 16-12-2017 12:18am

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

end of the road · 16-12-2017 12:26am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

neither will happen. go ahead isn't historically part of the 1 company like dublin bus, bus eireann and IE are so go ahead will just be like any other of the privates as far as the union and staff are concerned.

AlekSmart · 16-12-2017 11:22am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

Why would you wonder this,Stephen 15 ?

You appear to be in battle mode,when the reality is far from that.

Some of the Go-Ahead drivers will be transferees from Bus Atha Cliath,and will be well known to them.

Some will be transferees from other current Private Sector operators,many of whom will struggle to cope with a large scale recruitment campaign,so soon after losing significant numbers to Bus Atha Cliath already.

The overall effect of the Busconnects plan,combined with the BMO proposals as currently agreed,all allow for the substantial INCREASE in Bus services,which will require substantial INCREASE in Busdriver numbers.

Quite why it is felt necessary now,when a full,legal negotiated agreement underpins the entire process,you would immediately choose to fly off into conjecture and stories of woebegone doom escapes me ?

It is perhaps a rather well regarded Irish trait,always to seek out the worst possible outcome in all things,and then beat a Lambeg Drum to alert everybody else,but,in this case there is nothing to support Stephen15's views that Dublin is preparing for an imminent re-run of the UK Miners Strike.:)

patrickbrophy18 · 16-12-2017 10:36pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I saw one operating the 59 route yesterday. They are very smart looking.

I wonder what their length is. If I were to hazard a guess, I would put them at between 9 and 10 meters in length.

dfx- · 16-12-2017 10:54pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The overall effect of the Busconnects plan,combined with the BMO proposals as currently agreed,all allow for the substantial INCREASE in Bus services,which will require substantial INCREASE in Busdriver numbers.

Do bus drivers grow on trees? Where are they going to get them? Didn't Dublin Bus exhaust the supply of D licence holders....

godtabh · 16-12-2017 10:57pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Have they sourced depots yet

check out the south dublin co co website

liger · 16-12-2017 11:29pm

godtabh wrote: »

check out the south dublin co co website

Care to share a link to a specific page?

AlekSmart · 16-12-2017 11:36pm

liger wrote: »

Care to share a link to a specific page?

http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=144&regref=SD17A/0428

Excellent Choice,the DHL compound in Ballymount,change of use and well suited to a rapid conversion.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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