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TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

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    #92
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    When was a cry in the Irish language ever linked to suicide bombings? Would be interested to read about that.

    Hypothetically.

    And in NI the language is seen forever by SOME protestants as being linked to SF and the IRA.


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    #93
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    Horrible. Sounds more like murder though.

    Much as i dislike militant islam, there have been studies done, particularly by the Israelis on suicide bombers, and a lot (not all by any means), seemed to have been backed into a corner/blackmailed into their attacks. The european origin islamist suicide attacker seem to be completely voluntary


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    #94
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    How can you be a liberal and oppose free speech? How can you be a socialist and oppose scientific reasoning? How can you be far left and oppose atheism?.

    The answer to all of them is: you can’t and still be a reasonable person.

    No reasonable person opposes free speech, scientific reasoning and freedom or religion/lack of religion.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #95
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,977 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Brian? wrote: »
    What do you mean by “Jewish thought and teaching”? I assume you don’t mean the Torah and the Talmud.

    Many early socialist thinkers were Jewish, but their religion was irrelevant to the work they produced.

    Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

    Because the Pavlovian response is always "dE LeFt..."


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    #96
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    On his views about sexual assault and alcohol.

    Shoddy ethics. Philosophy was never his strong point.

    But his rhetoric its bar stool level at best.

    He can't pass everything he says off as academic intellectual pursuit if its sub par.

    A lot of what he says is purely from an emotive place and not a positive one. He's going to end up very lonely.


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    #97
    Bellbottoms
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Bellbottoms


    Errashareesh wrote: »
    buut on the other hand, refusing to give them a space where their hatefulness can be challenged, is just gonna help entrench them even deeper in that hatefulness.

    Challenging there views dosent work. Don't believe me. Just look at the anti vaxx movement. All that has happened is the has movement gained some legitimatcy and became more popular as a result.


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    #98
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    On his views about sexual assault and alcohol.

    Shoddy ethics. Philosophy was never his strong point.

    But his rhetoric its bar stool level at best.

    He can't pass everything he says off as academic intellectual pursuit if its sub par.

    A lot of what he says is purely from an emotive place and not a positive one. He's going to end up very lonely.
    Pity he cannot be grilled at the Hist to allow him to prove or disprove your allegations


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    #99
    ToddDameron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Hypothetically.

    And in NI the language is seen forever by SOME protestants as being linked to SF and the IRA.

    So there's exactly zero instances of the Irish language been uttered before a suicide bombing and many instances of the Islamic equivalent. Not seeing how they "exactly the same" to be honest.

    I've nothing no dog in this race, but if someone screamed Allahu Akbar in a crowded place I'd probably be worried. If someone screamed Tiocfaidh Ar La I'd tell them to shut up.


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    #100
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    Pity he cannot be grilled at the Hist to allow him to prove or disprove your allegations
    Firstly he admits himself philosophy is not his strong point. Its a little more solid than an allegation.

    Secondly i have been saying all the way through the thread that I don't think he should be cancelled there.

    But for some reason people keep shooting that interjection at me.


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    #101
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    McGinniesta wrote: »
    I cant understand it myself.

    Surely the whole point to a debate is that you have to challenge someone with an opposing viewpoint.

    Unfortunately the answer seems to be intolerance ie someone has a different opinion = cancel them.

    It's not much to expect a hell of a lot better from a group of highly educated individuals.


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    #102
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    So there's exactly zero instances of the Irish language been uttered before a suicide bombing and many instances of the Islamic equivalent. Not seeing how they "exactly the same" to be honest.
    A lot of protestants in the north don't see it your way.

    And several IRA members on being released from prison did interviews etc in Irish or wanted it to be known they had learnt irish in prison.

    Sinn Fein have always been associated with the language.

    Perhaps the IRA and SF and the North etc are not so black and white but grey ...but there is an association for some. Erroneously as it may be from our point of view.

    Those people of course ..are not moderates in the north ...they are the like of Curry my yoghurt guy ...but some of the things That Dawkins says are not moderate and are no better than curry my yoghurt.

    I mean his comments on the muslim call to prayer and allah akbar were VERY 'Curry My Yoghurt'.

    The Curry My Yoghurt guy ...ah iconic.

    Let him forever be known as the Curry My Yoghurt Guy. And nothing more.


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    #103
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    I'd say he draws the usual protests wherever he goes. Unfortunately this time there seems to be some moron in charge of the bookings who's lived under a rock her entire life, can't read a wiki page and got spooked by a few complaints.

    It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.


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    #104
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    If someone screamed Tiocfaidh Ar La I'd tell them to shut up.
    If you were a protestant in the North you would be worried. Probably if you were English in Dublin you would be too.

    Just like if I saw a union jack and someone shouted no surrender at me in the north I would be worried.


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    #105
    ToddDameron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    A lot of protestants in the north don't see it your way.

    And several IRA members on being released from prison did interviews etc in Irish or wanted it to be known they had learnt irish in prison.

    Sinn Fein have always been associated with the language.

    Perhaps the IRA and SF and the North etc are not so black and white but grey ...but there is an association for some. Erroneously as it may be from our point of view.

    Those people of course ..are not moderates in the north ...they are the like of Curry my yoghurt guy ...but some of the things That Dawkins says are not moderate and are no better than curry my yoghurt.
    You're talking about something different now. Irish being associated with terrorist activity in the North is one thing. There's no Irish equivalent to the phrase "Allahu Akbar" in the context of suicide bombings.

    Dawkins said it's a phrase that's heard before suicide bombings, there is evidence to back that claim. There is no Irish equivalent to that scenario.


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    #106
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    You're talking about something different now. Irish being associated with terrorist activity in the North is one thing. There's no Irish equivalent to the phrase "Allahu Akbar" in the context of suicide bombings.

    Dawkins said it's a phrase that's heard before suicide bombings, there is evidence to back that claim. There is no Irish equivalent to that scenario.


    You don't really think he fears hearing Allah Akbar do you?

    He just had an itch to say a nasty thing.

    Kinda petty.

    He is just angry.


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    #107
    ToddDameron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    If you were a protestant in the North you would be worried. Probably if you were English in Dublin you would be too.

    Just like if I saw a union jack and someone shouted no surrender at me in the north I would be worried.

    So you're saying what Dawkins said about Allahu Akbar being worrisome is a fair statement then?


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    #108
    Bellbottoms
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Bellbottoms


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.

    It is not the faculty it is a student society. That arranges talks for its members. The members decided they were not happy with him speaking so he was cancelled.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,505 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The pigeon man wrote: »
    It's sad to see that people worry more about comfort than freedom of speech.

    During my time in college I have been challenged, brought out of my comfort zone to learn new things that are you use to me during my working life.

    If there is a disagreement with a lecturer you should engage in a coherent, reasoned debate to address the issue, not shut down the speaker.

    I think it's important to point out here that this was not a talk organised by the college as some sort of debate, as quite a few posters seem to have implied.

    My understanding anyway, is that it was a one-sided address organised by a student-run society for its members. Leadership of the society received complaints based on the members' knowledge of the speaker. If the paying members are already aware of what he thinks, and don't agree with supporting the man in any way, then I think that's fair enough. It's a very different situation to a bunch of snowflakes not wanting to be challenged - they've already engaged with his opinions and have no interest in paying him to pontificate to them.


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    #110
    Absoluvely
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Absoluvely


    Another TCD student society, 'The Phil', invited him and had him speak there in 2013, as their flagship event of the year. Times have changed.

    The Phil Inaugural - "Darwin's Five Bridges" with Richard Dawkins
    Ticketed at 10am Wednesday March 20th, Phil Conversation Room, GMB.

    The Phil's flagship event of the year, the Inaugural, will this year feature Richard Dawkins, the ethologist, evolutionary biologist and author. The President of the Phil will make a speech, followed by an address by Prof. Dawkins entitled "Darwin's Five Bridges", and a Q&A with the audience. He will then receive the Gold Medal of Honorary Patronage of the society. The dress is black tie for all in attendance.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/550007878373466/


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    #111
    yuridwyer
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭yuridwyer


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    I'd say he draws the usual protests wherever he goes. Unfortunately this time there seems to be some moron in charge of the bookings who's lived under a rock her entire life, can't read a wiki page and got spooked by a few complaints.

    It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.

    I don't agree with Trinity for cancelling Dawkins, but it's not a long term issue.

    I don't agree with Dawkins on everything he says (but agree on most of what he says). I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.

    Truth is, everything, LITERALLY everything, goes in cycles - while there is cancel culture now, suppressing the likes of Dawkins, in 5 years there will be the opposite where you'll have the crazies on the other side of the line spouting their hateful opinions, and Trinity will be lining them up to speak.....


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    #112
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    So you're saying what Dawkins said about Allahu Akbar being worrisome is a fair statement then?
    I didn't mean to imply this.


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    #113
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    yuridwyer wrote: »
    I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.


    :mad:


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    #114
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    yuridwyer wrote: »
    I don't agree with Trinity for cancelling Dawkins, but it's not a long term issue.

    I don't agree with Dawkins on everything he says (but agree on most of what he says). I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.

    Truth is, everything, LITERALLY everything, goes in cycles - while there is cancel culture now, suppressing the likes of Dawkins, in 5 years there will be the opposite where you'll have the crazies on the other side of the line spouting their hateful opinions, and Trinity will be lining them up to speak.....

    I seriously don't know what's going on in society, with the cancel culture.

    Hopefully it's a phase, and we're in rinse cycle and there will be less dirty laundry when it's gone through the cycle.


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    #115
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,690 ✭✭✭buried


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    The european origin islamist suicide attacker seem to be completely voluntary

    A vast majority of these Islamist attackers were inspired by Abu Musab Al Suri, a former cadre and rival of Osama Bin Laden, whose writings in the previous 5 years before the major European attacks said to his followers to attack the middle classes, not organised hierarchies such as politicians, military or landmarks. His twisted viewpoint, at odds with Bin laden, was that if terrorists attack those targets, military, political institutions etc, the Islamists get bombed to $hit. Which is what happened. Al Suri said to attack the middle class people, attack them in the bars, shops, cafe's, gigs, sporting events, because he said "they believe in nothing, so you can frighten them".

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #116
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Permission to express myself artistically!
    No? Ok thanks.

    The role of the moon is not to shine light to get rid of the darkness ...its to illuminate not eliminate. Its to help us understand.There is a Russian film called Burnt by the Sun. Its about purges in Russia in the name of helping people.Trying to achieve perfection on earth leads to purges. We are not meant to get rid of imperfect people. We are meant to try to understand them. The darkness cannot understand the light. The blind cannot see. Dawkins can't understand muslims. And he never will be able to. But we can understand him. The light in us can. through our empathy ...we can understand him. Our job isn't to get rid of him or change him. But to understand him. Sometimes people feel to do the right thing is to change or get rid of the imperfect or morally blind. It isn't .


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    #117
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    nthclare wrote: »
    I seriously don't know what's going on in society, with the cancel culture.

    Hopefully it's a phase, and we're in rinse cycle and there will be less dirty laundry when it's gone through the cycle.
    You have to wear those pants again though!


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    #118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The trouble is, when you're a public figure and speak as often as Dawkins does, you're going to say some stupid stuff. I've been a big fan of his for a long time and have read all his books but have found myself tutting to things he says more often in recent times. On the alcohol/rape thing, I get what he was trying to say, but for a fella with a beautiful way with words in his books, he made that particular point abysmally.


    All in all, he should 100% be speaking.


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    #119
    ToddDameron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I didn't mean to imply this.

    Not being funny but I'm struggling to understand your viewpoint. You said you would be worried if you heard a protestant say"no surrender." But simultaneously criticise Dawkins for his opinion on "allahu akbar." Sounds like you are both on the same page.


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    #120
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    You have to wear those pants again though!

    I'll wear it with pride without the prejudice :)


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    #121
    Zookey123
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    This really is a low point for TCD. Huge Dawkins fan and I don't agree with 100% of what he says but complaining about him and ruining it for everyone else is so annoying. People need to learn how to have a discussion and not just stick your head in the sand when you hear a differing opinion.


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