TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

d8491prj5boyvg

https://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-moving-ahead-with-richard-dawkins-address/

Cancelled because it would make some students 'uncomfortable'. An important part of personal development during university is engaging with different ideas and learning to form your own opinion. Regardless of whether Dawkins is right or wrong, engaging with talks such as this is a valuable part of the college learning experience.

That's my view - have I missed something?

jaxxx

Typical snowflakes knee jerk reaction to anyone or anything that dares threaten their cotton wool covered lives. Pathetic.

Bellbottoms

Fatima Scarce Bin wrote: »

https://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-moving-ahead-with-richard-dawkins-address/

Cancelled because it would make some students 'uncomfortable'. An important part of personal development during university is engaging with different ideas and learning to form your own opinion. Regardless of whether Dawkins is right or wrong, engaging with talks such as this is a valuable part of the college learning experience.

That's my view - have I missed something?

I would be suprised if anyone didn't know about his views on Islam. I suspect his views on sexual assualt are more problematic. I am not aware of his views. Nor are the expanded upon in the article.

Does anyone know what they are refering to?

d8491prj5boyvg

Bellbottoms wrote: »

I would be suprised if anyone didn't know about his views on Islam. I suspect his views on sexual assualt are more problematic. I am not aware of his views. Nor are the expanded upon in the article.

Does anyone know what they are refering to?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/richard-dawkins-sexist-atheists-bad-name

He's said some objectionable things, all the more reason to challenge him.

...as we value our members comfort above all else”

The Historical society of the country's best university. Sad world we live in.

TheValeyard

Richard Dawkins is a highly intelligent fella with interesting viewpoints, but has the social niceties of a marispan dildo.

Still, that's no reason to cancel him. Cancel culture is a load of rubbish. Silencing people so they do not offend others is just stupid.

Danzy

He has always been opposed by religious fanatics.

These ones are just woke instead of theologically driven.

Same mentality.

Society is much more conformist and controlling now than even 20 years ago.

ILoveYourVibes

He thinks jews are like the most intelligent and have contributed most to science and humanity out of any group apparently.

Im like well then why doesnt he listen?

On a rare serious note though.

Its a shame to cancel him.

However I can understand why people have been offended by things he has said. And he should answer for them.

Cancelling him kind of lets him off the hook ..he can just print his views or tweet them....

Danzy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He thinks jews are like the most intelligent and have contributed most to science and humanity out of any group apparently.

A view which will tank his reputation among much of the modern left.

JohnnyFlash

Students being a shower of self-important dickheads. Some things never change.

ILoveYourVibes

Danzy wrote: »

A view which will tank among much of the modern left.

Much of the modern left is jewish and inspired by jewish thought and teaching.

Ekerot

Not the biggest fan of Dawkins, but I cringe hard when I see someone being stopped from talking because of a few complaints backstage.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

CaNceL cULtUrE dOEsN’t eXiSt.

Treppen

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Much of the modern left is jewish and inspired by jewish thought and teaching.

Have you got an example of that?

buried

I don't agree with Dawkins viewpoints, and I wouldn't be a fan of organised religion, I just don't dig his refusal to accept the possibility of a reality beyond what is perceptible to human senses in our evolving minds. No need to cancel the mans stand on anything, it should be a relished opportunity to debate with him calmly and civilly in a open arena or forum. This statement of "we value our members comfort above all else" is some real laughable craic, who are they going to book instead? Some lad dressed as Santy Claus handing out I-pads and double espresso backflapacinnos?

Brian?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Much of the modern left is jewish and inspired by jewish thought and teaching.

What do you mean by “Jewish thought and teaching”? I assume you don’t mean the Torah and the Talmud.

Many early socialist thinkers were Jewish, but their religion was irrelevant to the work they produced.

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

McGinniesta

I'm not a particular fan of the man.

However, this cancel culture nonsense has gone too far. To ban people because they may express an opinion that you dislike is beyond annoying.

This should apply to all equally.

Jimmy Twotimes

Had a look at the facebook page, it's the usual lefty crap.

So students want to be part of a debating society but don't want to encounter any people or ideas that make them 'uncomfortable'? It's all so tiresome.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

"Why would people have a different reaction to a different situation?".

McGinniesta

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

Had a look at the facebook, it's the usual lefty crap.

So students want to be part of a debating society but don't want to encounter any people or ideas that make them 'uncomfortable'? It's all so tiresome.

I cant understand it myself.

Surely the whole point to a debate is that you have to challenge someone with an opposing viewpoint.

ILoveYourVibes

Treppen wrote: »

Have you got an example of that?

Are you kidding!

YES!

71% of jews voted for hilary.

Chomsky.

Bernie Sanders.

Hannah Arendt

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jews-and-liberal-politics/

And yes the far left ..the crazy people you are thinking of..EXACTLY what you are thinking of ....left and fast accelerating...that is how left.

The_Brood

As someone who is not an atheist I disagree with Dawkins on many important matters, but the far-left that dominates academia, pop culture, and much of politics seeks to actively censor and cancel everything and anything remotely connected to science, history, and reason.

Jimmy Twotimes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Much of the modern left is jewish and inspired by jewish thought and teaching.

Oh I'm sure it 's all just a massive coincidence.

Danzy

Brian? wrote: »

Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

Many no longer differentiate between the two, understandably.

The_Brood

Brian? wrote: »

What do you mean by “Jewish thought and teaching”? I assume you don’t mean the Torah and the Talmud.

Many early socialist thinkers were Jewish, but their religion was irrelevant to the work they produced.

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

It's obvious that Dawkins' viewpoints won't endear him to any of the major faith groups. That's not surprising or the question here.

But this is not a religious group that is 'canceling' him, this is (at least once upon a time but certainly not recently) a forum that is supposed to stand for learning, researching, and discussing important matters.

Man with broke phone

Liberals going too far with censorship and fascism is the reason we have Trump and Brexit and all them things the liberals dont want.

Why cant they just be liberal?

Jimmy Twotimes

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Liberals going too far with censorship and fascism is the reason we have Trump and Brexit and all them things the liberals dont want.

Why cant they just be liberal?

Because liberalism is a mental disorder. How else can you explain it?

Deebles McBeebles

Looking forward to seeing the videos of copies of The God Delusion on someones BBQ though.

Richard Hillman

Funny thing is the Minister of Higher Education (Simon Harris) will keep quiet on what's beginning to replicate American college culture, but when he snakes his way into the FG leadership in 5-10 years, they'll consider him Right Wing or Far-Right no matter what he does.

Political in doctrine of young people cannot be allowed in state funded education systems. All points of view need to be represented. This isn't America where they are mostly private funded. You can't just make up your own fundamental rules on campus.

nthclare

They'll cancel anything that's deemed a threat to the truth, difference of opinion or makes someone have a laugh or a point that's validated.

I'm not a fan of Dawkins stance on spiritual matters etc
I like reading his theories about evolution, but the whole God delusion book is used as coaster in my sitting room.
As an agnostic I find his God stuff more of a well thought out resentment with a bit of insightful reading, but it's just the same aul shoite I see in atheist debates, they all plagerise him, as if they're reading from the holy book.

I don't see why he's been cancelled, he's entitled to say what he thinks.
I couldn't give a toss.

yuridwyer

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

Had a look at the facebook page, it's the usual lefty crap.

So students want to be part of a debating society but don't want to encounter any people or ideas that make them 'uncomfortable'? It's all so tiresome.

Read "don't want to debate with someone who would wipe the floor with them without even getting out of first gear". Boo-hoo......

jam_mac_jam

If he makes you uncomfortable don't go to the talk. What an absolute pack of babies.

ILoveYourVibes

Brian? wrote: »

What do you mean by “Jewish thought and teaching”? I assume you don’t mean the Torah and the Talmud.

Many early socialist thinkers were Jewish, but their religion was irrelevant to the work they produced.

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

I do mean the Talmud also. Tzedakah.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3250289/jewish/Is-Judaism-Socialist-or-Capitalist.htm

The roots of socialism are firmly grounded in a Torah institution

Obligatory charity.


There are mitzvot that agree with a socialist mentality property return during yovel.

The mishna in particular is concerned with social justice.

Halacha demands charity ..and collects it by force if necessary.


Halacha limits the free market. You can't pay one sixth less or more than an items worth. Even if both parties agree.

Capital crimes in halacha are only against people not against property.

And the two great crimes from the prophets ..Idolatry and oppression of the poor. Only oppression of the poor is equal to idolatry.

Halacha also limits free market competition.

The Torah requires that the sale of all real estate (except houses in walled cities) be in the form of a leasing arrangement ; all such property returns to the original owner in the fiftieth - Jubilee - year (Leviticus 25 :8ff). This is called the "land sabbatical." In addition, the Torah commands that we cancel, at the end of each seventh year, all outstanding debts which were due before then (Deuteronomy 15:1-3). This is called the "money sabbatical."These sabbaticals are limits which the

Torah imposes upon our right to property in order to benefit the needy. The land sabbatical protected the people of Israel from deteriorating into a majority of tenant farmers working land owned by a small elite.

JohnnyFlash

Brian? wrote: »

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

Maybe both should be 'attacked' for this nonsense? They both act pretty much the same way anyway.

ILoveYourVibes

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Maybe both should be 'attacked' for this nonsense? They both act pretty much the same way anyway.

This can be true.

Quantum Erasure

'Woke-ism' of the day thread
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ohnonotgmail

It was the Hist that cancelled dawkins not Trinity.

Montage of Feck

How can you be a liberal and oppose free speech? How can you be a socialist and oppose scientific reasoning? How can you be far left and oppose atheism?
Political debate is increasingly making no sense in the old left/right sense while student politics is just plain bonkers.

ILoveYourVibes

socialism is in my very blood!

the purple tin

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Funny thing is the Minister of Higher Education (Simon Harris) will keep quiet on what's beginning to replicate American college culture, but when he snakes his way into the FG leadership in 5-10 years, they'll consider him Right Wing or Far-Right no matter what he does.

Political in doctrine of young people cannot be allowed in state funded education systems. All points of view need to be represented. This isn't America where they are mostly private funded. You can't just make up your own fundamental rules on campus.

American students are pretty much running their colleges now.
They have the staff bricking it because even one complaint now can get you sacked and probably end your career. The deans are too scared to back up their staff anymore and always side with the students no matter how ridiculous the complaint is.

Jimmy Twotimes

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Liberals going too far with censorship and fascism is the reason we have Trump and Brexit and all them things the liberals dont want.

Why cant they just be liberal?

They make me think of hardcore protestant types who want to create utopia on Earth (which is hell for normal people) Calvinists and Lutherans and such like.

They want to 'improve' you by making you conform to their nutty beliefs:

White men are evil
Borders are racist
There 7000 genders
We must worship the LGBTQXYZDFTRSAGTRD people

The Taliban of progressives.

ILoveYourVibes

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was the Hist that cancelled dawkins not Trinity.

Its dawkins that cancelled trinity!;)

I can understand how muslims (of which there are many studying in trinity partic sciences ) might feel hurt.

Jimmy Twotimes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its dawkins that cancelled trinity!;)

I can understand how muslims (of which there are many studying in trinity partic sciences ) might feel hurt.

So what if they feel hurt?

ILoveYourVibes

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

So what if they feel hurt?

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

Jimmy Twotimes

the purple tin wrote: »

American students are pretty much running their colleges now.
They have the staff bricking it because even one complaint now can get you sacked and probably end your career. The deans are too scared to back up their staff anymore and always side with the students no matter who ridiculous the complaint is.

And yet for all their big talk about racism and oppression and blah blah blah, they'll never say a bad word about China because they need to suckle in the Chinese teat.

Bellbottoms

McGinniesta wrote: »

I cant understand it myself.

Surely the whole point to a debate is that you have to challenge someone with an opposing viewpoint.

Not necessarily. Dawkins is renowned for not debating creationist, this might of changed. But his arguement is that by debating them. You are giving them a legitimatcy.

I don't know the full facts here. I don't know what Dawkins said about sexual assaults that people are having a problem with. And I cannot saying if I agree with him being invited or not.

And unless you know what he said. You shouldn't be defending him or supporting the decision either.

The pigeon man

It's sad to see that people worry more about comfort than freedom of speech.

During my time in college I have been challenged, brought out of my comfort zone to learn new things that are you use to me during my working life.

If there is a disagreement with a lecturer you should engage in a coherent, reasoned debate to address the issue, not shut down the speaker.

Jimmy Twotimes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

But you don't feel hurt if the Christian students are offended.

ILoveYourVibes

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

But you don't feel hurt if the Christian students are offended.

I do not. I feel hurt if they are HURT. Not offended.

These are very different things.

Damaged ..hurt ...either endangered or physically or emotionally hurt.

Something can breach a view (offense) you hold without hurting you.

Christians are less vulnerable. Partic in Ireland.

Jimmy Twotimes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I do not. I feel hurt if they are HURT. Not offended.

These are very different things.

Damaged ..hurt ...either endangered or physically or emotionally hurt.

Something can breach a view (offense) you hold without hurting you.

Whatever. Not my problem if Muslims are so fragile they get 'hurt' by Dawkins.

Perhaps they should have a debate over it?

is_that_so

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

The likes of Dawkins stimulate the mind to question and explore. He may not be to everyone's liking, mine included, but he does produce some provocative positions worth examining.