TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

jam_mac_jam · 28-09-2020 9:23pm

If he makes you uncomfortable don't go to the talk. What an absolute pack of babies.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:26pm

Brian? wrote: »

What do you mean by “Jewish thought and teaching”? I assume you don’t mean the Torah and the Talmud.

Many early socialist thinkers were Jewish, but their religion was irrelevant to the work they produced.

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

I do mean the Talmud also. Tzedakah.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3250289/jewish/Is-Judaism-Socialist-or-Capitalist.htm

The roots of socialism are firmly grounded in a Torah institution

Obligatory charity.

There are mitzvot that agree with a socialist mentality property return during yovel.

The mishna in particular is concerned with social justice.

Halacha demands charity ..and collects it by force if necessary.

Halacha limits the free market. You can't pay one sixth less or more than an items worth. Even if both parties agree.

Capital crimes in halacha are only against people not against property.

And the two great crimes from the prophets ..Idolatry and oppression of the poor. Only oppression of the poor is equal to idolatry.

Halacha also limits free market competition.

The Torah requires that the sale of all real estate (except houses in walled cities) be in the form of a leasing arrangement ; all such property returns to the original owner in the fiftieth - Jubilee - year (Leviticus 25 :8ff). This is called the "land sabbatical." In addition, the Torah commands that we cancel, at the end of each seventh year, all outstanding debts which were due before then (Deuteronomy 15:1-3). This is called the "money sabbatical."These sabbaticals are limits which the

Torah imposes upon our right to property in order to benefit the needy. The land sabbatical protected the people of Israel from deteriorating into a majority of tenant farmers working land owned by a small elite.

JohnnyFlash · 28-09-2020 9:26pm

Brian? wrote: »

Re: Dawkins being cancelled. Dawkins has been attacked for many years by the religious right. Why are people having a go now at the left ?

Maybe both should be 'attacked' for this nonsense? They both act pretty much the same way anyway.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:27pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Maybe both should be 'attacked' for this nonsense? They both act pretty much the same way anyway.

This can be true.

Quantum Erasure · 28-09-2020 9:27pm

'Woke-ism' of the day thread
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ohnonotgmail · 28-09-2020 9:29pm

It was the Hist that cancelled dawkins not Trinity.

Montage of Feck · 28-09-2020 9:31pm

How can you be a liberal and oppose free speech? How can you be a socialist and oppose scientific reasoning? How can you be far left and oppose atheism?
Political debate is increasingly making no sense in the old left/right sense while student politics is just plain bonkers.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:31pm

socialism is in my very blood!

the purple tin · 28-09-2020 9:31pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Funny thing is the Minister of Higher Education (Simon Harris) will keep quiet on what's beginning to replicate American college culture, but when he snakes his way into the FG leadership in 5-10 years, they'll consider him Right Wing or Far-Right no matter what he does.

Political in doctrine of young people cannot be allowed in state funded education systems. All points of view need to be represented. This isn't America where they are mostly private funded. You can't just make up your own fundamental rules on campus.

American students are pretty much running their colleges now.
They have the staff bricking it because even one complaint now can get you sacked and probably end your career. The deans are too scared to back up their staff anymore and always side with the students no matter how ridiculous the complaint is.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:32pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Liberals going too far with censorship and fascism is the reason we have Trump and Brexit and all them things the liberals dont want.

Why cant they just be liberal?

They make me think of hardcore protestant types who want to create utopia on Earth (which is hell for normal people) Calvinists and Lutherans and such like.

They want to 'improve' you by making you conform to their nutty beliefs:

White men are evil
Borders are racist
There 7000 genders
We must worship the LGBTQXYZDFTRSAGTRD people

The Taliban of progressives.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:33pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was the Hist that cancelled dawkins not Trinity.

Its dawkins that cancelled trinity!;)

I can understand how muslims (of which there are many studying in trinity partic sciences ) might feel hurt.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:33pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its dawkins that cancelled trinity!;)

I can understand how muslims (of which there are many studying in trinity partic sciences ) might feel hurt.

So what if they feel hurt?

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:34pm

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

So what if they feel hurt?

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:35pm

the purple tin wrote: »

American students are pretty much running their colleges now.
They have the staff bricking it because even one complaint now can get you sacked and probably end your career. The deans are too scared to back up their staff anymore and always side with the students no matter who ridiculous the complaint is.

And yet for all their big talk about racism and oppression and blah blah blah, they'll never say a bad word about China because they need to suckle in the Chinese teat.

Bellbottoms · 28-09-2020 9:36pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

I cant understand it myself.

Surely the whole point to a debate is that you have to challenge someone with an opposing viewpoint.

Not necessarily. Dawkins is renowned for not debating creationist, this might of changed. But his arguement is that by debating them. You are giving them a legitimatcy.

I don't know the full facts here. I don't know what Dawkins said about sexual assaults that people are having a problem with. And I cannot saying if I agree with him being invited or not.

And unless you know what he said. You shouldn't be defending him or supporting the decision either.

The pigeon man · 28-09-2020 9:36pm

It's sad to see that people worry more about comfort than freedom of speech.

During my time in college I have been challenged, brought out of my comfort zone to learn new things that are you use to me during my working life.

If there is a disagreement with a lecturer you should engage in a coherent, reasoned debate to address the issue, not shut down the speaker.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:37pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

But you don't feel hurt if the Christian students are offended.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:39pm

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

But you don't feel hurt if the Christian students are offended.

I do not. I feel hurt if they are HURT. Not offended.

These are very different things.

Damaged ..hurt ...either endangered or physically or emotionally hurt.

Something can breach a view (offense) you hold without hurting you.

Christians are less vulnerable. Partic in Ireland.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:41pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I do not. I feel hurt if they are HURT. Not offended.

These are very different things.

Damaged ..hurt ...either endangered or physically or emotionally hurt.

Something can breach a view (offense) you hold without hurting you.

Whatever. Not my problem if Muslims are so fragile they get 'hurt' by Dawkins.

Perhaps they should have a debate over it?

is_that_so · 28-09-2020 9:41pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

I think the right comes off more invulnerable. Harder ....but perhaps this is not the case.

The likes of Dawkins stimulate the mind to question and explore. He may not be to everyone's liking, mine included, but he does produce some provocative positions worth examining.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:42pm

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

Whatever. Not my problem if Muslims are so fragile they get 'hurt' by Dawkins.

Perhaps they should have a debate over it?

Perhaps you should get over him being cancelled?

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:45pm

is_that_so wrote: »

The likes of Dawkins stimulate the mind to question and explore. He may not be to everyone's liking, mine included, but he does produce some provocative positions worth exploring.

He isn't the likes of Katie Hopkins. But seems to veer towards her accidentally.

He's not very conscious of what he says for an intelligent man.

Most of these positions can be dismantled easily.

In person he usually apologizes on tv eg for what he has said a lot. I think he lacks rhetorical skill.

Quantum Erasure · 28-09-2020 9:46pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

Not necessarily. Dawkins is renowned for not debating creationist, this might of changed. But his arguement is that by debating them. You are giving them a legitimatcy.

I don't know the full facts here. I don't know what Dawkins said about sexual assaults that people are having a problem with. And I cannot saying if I agree with him being invited or not.

And unless you know what he said. You shouldn't be defending him or supporting the decision either.

Article here from a few years ago,

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/richard-dawkins-sexist-atheists-bad-name
And this tweet
https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/510656024169447424

tabby aspreme · 28-09-2020 9:47pm

How is it, that having spent years removing the power, from one group of religious fundamentalists, this country treats another group,with even more radical tendiencys with kid gloves

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:48pm

Dawkins.

“Listening to the lovely bells of Winchester, one of our great mediaeval cathedrals. So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding ‘Allahu Akhbar.’ Or is that just my cultural upbringing?”

Of late he seems to praise christianity. He is a changed man from what he used to be. Not as atheist as he seems.

When asked to clarify his comments, Mr Dawkins told The Independent the call to prayer could be “very beautiful… but also, ‘Allahu Akhbar’ is the last thing you hear before the suicide bomb goes off”.

I mean who says that to a news paper?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/richard-dawkins-allahu-akhbar-church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html

he hardly seems atheist anymore. He is always banging on about christianity and loving it. Fine.

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1018933359978909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1019116690062397441%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-39273969182070427910.ampproject.net%2F2009112034002%2Fframe.html

WHY GO THERE?

Why do you have to say allah akbar is the last thing you here before the sucide bomb goes off?

Just do your mass church bell thing and enjoy it.

is_that_so · 28-09-2020 9:50pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He isn't the likes of Katie Hopkins. But seems to veer towards her accidentally.

He's not very conscious of what he says for an intelligent man.

Most of these positions can be dismantled easily.

In person he usually apologizes on tv eg for what he has said a lot. I think he lacks rhetorical skill.

And yet not enough for him to be deemed persona non grata. I'm no great fan but there is an increasing tendency to imagine that denying someone a platform somehow mutes their perspective. If you really want your mind to be challenged it needs to be open to all things not just things that don't play havoc with your aura.

Jimmy Twotimes · 28-09-2020 9:51pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Perhaps you should get over him being cancelled?

Yeah maybe I should. And maybe Muslims need to start living in the 21st century and accept not everyone belives in Allah.

nthclare · 28-09-2020 9:54pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How can you be a liberal and oppose free speech? How can you be a socialist and oppose scientific reasoning? How can you be far left and oppose atheism?
Political debate is increasingly making no sense in the old left/right sense while student politics is just plain bonkers.

You see there's no more chemtrails to control the npc's so they're all malfunctioning.

The last person I thought I'd see the left cancel would be good old Dicky Dawkins.

Although Hitchens warned us about the left getting too much control, and there you go he was spot on.

Ironically a lot of Atheists are leftys so this has thrown a monumental spanner in the works..

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 9:54pm

Jimmy Twotimes wrote: »

Whatever. Not my problem if Muslims are so fragile they get 'hurt' by Dawkins.

Perhaps they should have a debate over it?

Well saying the muslim call to prayer is agressive and that allah akbar is the last thing you hear before the suicide bomb goes off...its a little much.

Still not saying they should not let him speak.

BUT.

I mean would you say this?

And yes he said that.

yuridwyer · 28-09-2020 9:54pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Dawkins.

Of late he seems to praise christianity. He is a changed man from what he used to be. Not as atheist as he seems.

I mean who says that to a news paper?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/richard-dawkins-allahu-akhbar-church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html

he hardly seems atheist anymore. He is always banging on about christianity and loving it. Fine.

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1018933359978909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1019116690062397441%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-39273969182070427910.ampproject.net%2F2009112034002%2Fframe.html

WHY GO THERE?

Why do you have to say allah akbar is the last thing you here before the sucide bomb goes off?

Just do your mass church bell thing and enjoy it.

I'm atheist. I like seeing the contentment religion brings to my mother. I'd love to believe what she believes. I'm still an atheist though.

TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

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