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Sub 2.50 - and beyond!

24567…10

Comments

  • #52
    opus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭opus


    Mac Cormaic wrote: »
    Some very interesting points here. I'm planning to train to run a sub 2.30 marathon in Dublin this year, my pb been only 3.35. The reason is I read a thread on this forum lately that an any average runner can run a 2.30 with the right training program. My training last year never exceeded 20 - 30 miles a week, and there was no consitency. I was taking weeks off at a time (often only did 6 miles), with very little speed work. This year I plan to do a 9 month training program, and increase my mileage up to a basic 50 miles a week, with increased mileage (if I don't have races). At least I'll be able to put the theory to test, and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I only knocked 10 minutes off my times. Some will say it's probably impossible to knock that much time off a marathon in such a short period of time. I'm not sure, but sure we'll see how it goes over the next few months.

    http://samhioldanach.blogspot.com/

    Wow that certainly is a stretch goal! Best of luck with it anyway. Makes me feel like a wimp for only planning to try and knock 10 mins of my marathon time this year :o


  • #53
    john do
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭john do


    heffsarmy wrote: »
    Fair play to you John do, were did you do the marathon. Have you any plans to do another one, I think you should could be a national contendor.

    Well heffsarmy, Dublin last year, might do a marathon in the next few months if not just wait and do Dublin again.


  • #54
    heffsarmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭heffsarmy


    John do were are you based? Are you in a club?


  • #55
    woodchopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 806 ✭✭✭woodchopper


    john do wrote: »
    I,d just like to say to your man planning on doing the sub 2.30 marathon is go for it. I consider myself as a relative inexperienced runner as I only took up running less than 2 years ago and done my first and only marathon last year in a sub a sub 2.30 time on less than 70 miles average a week only going over 70 when long runs were over 20 miles. I never done speed work but tried to do plenty of races and use them as speed work.
    Average week ,
    Mon- 7miles 6.40 pace
    Tues- 12 miles one week 6 miles the next week- 5.30-5.40
    wed-7-9 miles 6.40
    Thur-5 miles 5.30-5.40
    Fri-9 miles 6.40
    Sat-7 miles 6.40
    Sun-long run 18-24 miles 6.20-6.30

    I would agree with the comment that the average runner could run a sub 2.30 marathon because thats just what I am


    Dont sell yourself short John. Any athlete with only two years of running behind them yet runs a sub 2.30 marathon is a very talented athlete. There is no reason why you wouldnt be able to run sub 2.20 in the next four years if you continue to train intelligently. Most important to your marathon training is the pace to which you run the long run ie there is no hanging around at 7.30 mile pace. The quality of the workouts is the most important factor in a marathon not the amount of miles you run although that does help.

    Remember Duncan Kibet and James Kwambai 'only' ran 85-90 miles during their Rotterdam build up yet managed to run 2.04.27. Its the quality of your marathon workouts which is off the most importance ie long fast run, marathon paced tests. half marathon pace tests and regeneration runs to recover.

    Regards
    Woodchopper


  • #56
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    I wouldn say your "an average runner" as staying injury free given your intensity of your runs and lack of years of mileage. Staying injury free is a talent in itself and i think its one that even some elites would kill to have


  • #57
    tunguska
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    jaymack75 wrote: »
    just for reference, according to the mcmillan calculator a 2:30 marathon equates to:

    a mile in 4:26
    5k in 15:23
    5mile in 25:30
    10k in 31:58
    10mile in 53:33
    half mar in 71:07

    I wouldnt put too much stock in the macmilian calculator. I know of plenty of cases where people who had relatively slow times in short races went on to knock out a great marathon. There was one lad at the dublin marathon last year who I beat in every race throughout the year, 5k, 10k, 5 mile ,10mile and half marathon. When I was doing a 77min half he did a 1:20half. I did 57mins 10mile he did 59. I did 2:42 in the marathon he did 2:35. And he's over 45.

    On another subject, I have it on good authority that the main man himself, Jack Daniels will be visiting these shores very soon. I reckon it'll be the running equivalent of Beetle-mania. Only this time 'round you can replace the hysterical teenage girls with grown men in their 30s.


  • #58
    jaymack75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭jaymack75


    tunguska wrote: »
    I wouldnt put too much stock in the macmilian calculator. I know of plenty of cases where people who had relatively slow times in short races went on to knock out a great marathon.

    Fair enough tunguska - I only really use it as a guide of equivalent performance. I know there are other methods that give different times and comparing mile times to marathons is quite a stretch. Having said that, my post was really to show out that being in shape for sub 2:30 should mean being able to race the shorter distances in some very tidy times. What do you think a fair HM time would be for someone running sub 2:30?
    tunguska wrote: »
    There was one lad at the dublin marathon last year who I beat in every race throughout the year, 5k, 10k, 5 mile ,10mile and half marathon. When I was doing a 77min half he did a 1:20half. I did 57mins 10mile he did 59. I did 2:42 in the marathon he did 2:35. And he's over 45.

    How do you know how hard the other guy was racing? If he did a 2:35 marathon with even splits, then by definition he did two halfs back to back quicker than the one you raced him in? What does that tell you? btw, mcmillan gives 76:49 as equal to a 2:42, so at least it works for your times ;)


  • #59
    woodchopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 806 ✭✭✭woodchopper


    jaymack75 wrote: »
    Fair enough tunguska - I only really use it as a guide of equivalent performance. I know there are other methods that give different times and comparing mile times to marathons is quite a stretch. Having said that, my post was really to show out that being in shape for sub 2:30 should mean being able to race the shorter distances in some very tidy times. What do you think a fair HM time would be for someone running sub 2:30?


    71-72 minute half needed to run a sub 2.30 which is 75 or under back to back. A 73 minute half is too slow to aim for a sub 2.30. Obviously if the half is all uphill then thats a whole different story as they say


  • #60
    sherdo2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭sherdo2010


    Looking for a marathon training programme for a mate of mine who's looking to do sub 2.50. is there any detailed programme out there to do this with times and training plans etc or even ones for sub 2.45...

    Any help will be appreciated!!!


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  • #61
    heffsarmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭heffsarmy


    Running any race during a marathon program is not the same as training specifically for the race. If you train specifically for the race you would run it faster.


  • #62
    seanynova
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭seanynova


    heffsarmy wrote: »
    Running any race during a marathon program is not the same as training specifically for the race. If you train specifically for the race you would run it faster.

    id agree with this....in marathon training, if you were to sacrifice a weekend LSR for a 5m, 10k, 10m or 1/2 marathon race often then your kind of missing out on a lot of key sessions. also these pre-goal-races cannot be done with the proper rest periods, before and after so not only are you not racing to the best of your ability in the race, you have to recover from it which can take from quality sessions following the race...

    for me less is more when it comes to racing in a marathon programme, and when i do plan on racing, i plan a few days rest before hand, but 1 or 'maybe' 2 races in an 18week plan would be plenty for me(depends of the race/convenence)
    i regulary use short races as tempo/PMP runs as i find these easier for the mind to handle but i do run them strictly at required pace even when there is people sprinting past me to the finish line.


  • #63
    woodchopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 806 ✭✭✭woodchopper


    seanynova wrote: »
    id agree with this....in marathon training, if you were to sacrifice a weekend LSR for a 5m, 10k, 10m or 1/2 marathon race often then your kind of missing out on a lot of key sessions. also these pre-goal-races cannot be done with the proper rest periods, before and after so not only are you not racing to the best of your ability in the race, you have to recover from it which can take from quality sessions following the race...

    for me less is more when it comes to racing in a marathon programme, and when i do plan on racing, i plan a few days rest before hand, but 1 or 'maybe' 2 races in an 18week plan would be plenty for me(depends of the race/convenence)
    i regulary use short races as tempo/PMP runs as i find these easier for the mind to handle but i do run them strictly at required pace even when there is people sprinting past me to the finish line.


    Ah now a twenty second sprint to the finish is not going to have an adverse effect on a tempo run. It would be another thing however if you ran the race 30 seconds a mile faster than targeted effort. A sprint at the end can develop running efficiency but more importantly improve ones confidence. The benefits of the tempo have been gained before the last 150 metres so really taking it easy in the run in makes no sense. Go for it unless you feel a twinge.

    Regards
    Woodchopper


  • #64
    seanynova
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭seanynova


    woodchopper wrote: »
    Ah now a twenty second sprint to the finish is not going to have an adverse effect on a tempo run. It would be another thing however if you ran the race 30 seconds a mile faster than targeted effort. A sprint at the end can develop running efficiency but more importantly improve ones confidence. The benefits of the tempo have been gained before the last 150 metres so really taking it easy in the run in makes no sense. Go for it unless you feel a twinge.

    Regards
    Woodchopper

    funny you say that, i was actually thinking i would sprint to the finish of some of those, not for pride reasons but for repitition benifits....what do you think would be the appropriate distance for a fast finish to those tempo runs/races? (bearing in mind the races would be between 4m and 10k distance)


  • #65
    woodchopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 806 ✭✭✭woodchopper


    seanynova wrote: »
    funny you say that, i was actually thinking i would sprint to the finish of some of those, not for pride reasons but for repitition benifits....what do you think would be the appropriate distance for a fast finish to those tempo runs/races? (bearing in mind the races would be between 4m and 10k distance)


    Id say about 2-3 minutes close to VO2 MAX


  • #66
    Gringo78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Gringo78


    seanynova wrote: »
    funny you say that, i was actually thinking i would sprint to the finish of some of those, not for pride reasons but for repitition benifits....what do you think would be the appropriate distance for a fast finish to those tempo runs/races? (bearing in mind the races would be between 4m and 10k distance)

    I think the benefit of ending a tempo in such a manner runs deeper in that you condition a mental automatic response of always speeding up at the end of a hard run. So at the end of a race you will naturally begin to speed up rather than fade


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  • #67
    thirstywork2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭thirstywork2


    Mc Cormaic can you give us some of your pb's for shorter distances?
    I don't think you can go 3.37 to 2.30 running a marathon each month.
    It doesnt matter what the pace is you run these marathons in wether you run them as a training run they will tax your body but if you plan on racing them you will be burnt out in no time.
    As another poster said would you not aim for sub 3hours.
    I also disagree with most posters that the average club runner can run sub 2.30 unless they have a some talent and are running in excess of 90miles per week.
    Just take a look at the marathon rankings in ireland,not too many ''club runners'' have ran sud 2.30
    11 in total in the Dublin Marathon ran sub 2.30

    My own goal is to run the marathon in sub 2.45 later in the year.Having not run one before my target is based on my shorter distance times.
    Good luck with your training but bring back that target unless there is something you arent telling us ;)


  • #68
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    Mc Cormaic can you give us some of your pb's for shorter distances?

    One is on his blog, first entry
    My fastest 5 mile race last year was 35 mins (7 min miles), though I hope to have this down to 6 min miles within the next three months.


  • #69
    Mac Cormaic
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Mac Cormaic


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    Mc Cormaic can you give us some of your pb's for shorter distances?
    I don't think you can go 3.37 to 2.30 running a marathon each month.
    It doesnt matter what the pace is you run these marathons in wether you run them as a training run they will tax your body but if you plan on racing them you will be burnt out in no time.
    As another poster said would you not aim for sub 3hours.
    I also disagree with most posters that the average club runner can run sub 2.30 unless they have a some talent and are running in excess of 90miles per week.
    Just take a look at the marathon rankings in ireland,not too many ''club runners'' have ran sud 2.30
    11 in total in the Dublin Marathon ran sub 2.30

    My own goal is to run the marathon in sub 2.45 later in the year.Having not run one before my target is based on my shorter distance times.
    Good luck with your training but bring back that target unless there is something you arent telling us ;)

    I'm merely putting the theory to the test whether an average runner can knock that much time off his marathons. My best times over the last two years would be around 6.40 min miles for 5 km and 7 min miles for 5 mile races. My fastest 10 mile was 74 mins (during Cork marathon), and my half marathon is about 1.38. While my times are slow, I attribute them to lack of training, diet and zero speed-work. Obviously my goal is to reduce my times little by little, and if a sub 3 is the best I can achieve over the 9 month training program (I'd be more than delighted), then that will be a fairly accurate summary on how fast an average runner can reduce his times. I wouldn't regard myself as an athletic person at this moment in time, 36 years of age, 13.5 stone and 5'10'', so I'd definitely fit into the category of say the average runner showing up to a 5 mile race (been neither competitive or totally out of shape).

    If anything I'm primarily setting this difficult challenge for myself to make training that be more interesting and enjoyable, and will hopefully pick up a few training techniques and hints along the way. It's interesting that there seem to be a fair amount of people who think its to big a challenge to achieve, but at the same time have that questionable doubt 'is there a slight possibility it can be'! I'll do a marathon run at the end of February somewhere, (possibly in Killarney national park as the track has already been measured before) and hopefully by then I'll be at my natural fitness of around 3.35/40. In my eyes that will be a great progression towards slowly reducing times over the next 9 months.

    Regarding burnout it's something I will have to be very careful about, that and making sure I don't get any serious injuries along the way.


  • #70
    zico10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    I'm surprised it was January when this thread was last updated. But I'll bump it up and ask my question here, as the training I'd have in mind, would have sub 2.45 territory as a target time.

    What is the optimum distance that should be covered in an interval session? And what would be considered too much? I am only referring to the hard running done during the session, so leave out the recoveries, warm up and cool down.
    I'm not looking for specific advice on number of reps that should be ran either, but feel free to advise.
    To illustrate my point, is let's say 10km, the longest total distance that should be undertaken? The session itself could be 10 x 1km, or 5 x 2km. It is the total distance I'd like people's opinions on.

    Thanks,
    Zico


  • #71
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    zico10 wrote: »
    What is the optimum distance that should be covered in an interval session? And what would be considered too much? I am only referring to the hard running done during the session, so leave out the recoveries, warm up and cool down.
    I'm not looking for specific advice on number of reps that should be ran either, but feel free to advise.
    To illustrate my point, is let's say 10km, the longest total distance that should be undertaken? The session itself could be 10 x 1km, or 5 x 2km. It is the total distance I'd like people's opinions on.

    Thanks,
    Zico

    I think Daniels has it right with this as he puts volume of sessions as a percentage of you weekly mileage. It also comes down to exactly what pace you are running

    Here are rough figures I think fit for marathon training of 80mpw which should help give you

    Rep pace (roughly mile pace) 3-5% (roughly 5k worth )
    Interval Pace (5k-10k pace) 6-8 % (Roughly 5-6 miles worth)
    Threshold pace ( HMish pace) roughly 10% (6-8 miles)
    MP pace 12-15% (10-12 miles)

    These are more starting points on which you can progress ie add extra reps as you improve fitness etc but should be a decent enough guide

    (I know Rep pace does not place too much importance in many marathon training plans but of those who do add the emphasis is on short slightly slower reps with high volume which is why it may look a little excessive to many runners when they see mile pace)


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  • #72
    dev123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭dev123


    Not sure if this thread is already included but I would nominate it as one that shouldn't slip through the cracks. I might need it in about 10 years!


  • #73
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    I wonder could we get Mac Cormaic back on here to see if he achieved his sub 2.30 marathon?? :) I'm curious now...


  • #74
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I wonder could we get Mac Cormaic back on here to see if he achieved his sub 2.30 marathon?? :) I'm curious now...

    He stopped updating his blog in February...


  • #75
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    RayCun wrote: »
    He stopped updating his blog in February...

    Last post was about the Portumna Ultra so maybe he thought sub 2.30 was too easy a target


  • #76
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Ah well that's not a good sign is it?! I suppose I was asking slightly tongue in cheek!


  • #77
    zico10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    ecoli wrote: »
    I think Daniels has it right with this as he puts volume of sessions as a percentage of you weekly mileage. It also comes down to exactly what pace you are running

    Sorry, I'm not familiar with Daniels. But let's say my pace for a 1km interval is 3.40/km, does that help? Too Fast? Too Slow?
    ecoli wrote: »
    Here are rough figures I think fit for marathon training of 80mpw which should help give you

    Rep pace (roughly mile pace) 3-5% (roughly 5k worth )
    Interval Pace (5k-10k pace) 6-8 % (Roughly 5-6 miles worth)
    Threshold pace ( HMish pace) roughly 10% (6-8 miles)
    MP pace 12-15% (10-12 miles)

    This may be a stupid request, but could you clarify the above? You'll have to explain it to me like I'm a 6 year old.
    I'm not sure I've heard of rep pace before, what is it?
    Why don't the distances add up to 80 miles? And why don't the percentages add up to 100.
    Finally can I take it that 5-6 miles, is enough of a combined distance to cover, during an interval session?


  • #78
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    zico10 wrote: »
    I'm surprised it was January when this thread was last updated. But I'll bump it up and ask my question here, as the training I'd have in mind, would have sub 2.45 territory as a target time.

    What is the optimum distance that should be covered in an interval session? And what would be considered too much? I am only referring to the hard running done during the session, so leave out the recoveries, warm up and cool down.
    I'm not looking for specific advice on number of reps that should be ran either, but feel free to advise.
    To illustrate my point, is let's say 10km, the longest total distance that should be undertaken? The session itself could be 10 x 1km, or 5 x 2km. It is the total distance I'd like people's opinions on.

    Thanks,
    Zico

    Im training for Rotterdam in Spring.

    Will be doing 10k intervals, HM Intervals, M Intervals.

    17 weeks to Rotterdam:

    Next 4 weeks: 10k sessions, XC races
    Following 6 weeks: HM pace sessions starting at 12k building up to 22-23k

    eg 10 by 2k with 2 min jog between; 7 by 3k with 3 mins jog,

    Last 7 weeks:

    Marathon pace intervals:

    18k-26k: eg

    6 by 3k at MP 1k steady in between; 6 by 4k 1k steady in between.

    As i get closer to race day i will reduce my mileage and a higher percentage will be at race specific intervals, with more easy running in between.

    These paces are current 10k, HM and M pace fitness.


  • #79
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    zico10 wrote: »
    Sorry, I'm not familiar with Daniels. But let's say my pace for a 1km interval is 3.40/km, does that help? Too Fast? Too Slow?

    I am guessing that these are hard sessions where you are running @ roughly 95% (Basically the pace you can run for say a 5k race per km) with decent recovery
    zico10 wrote: »
    I'm not sure I've heard of rep pace before, what is it?

    Rep pace is effectively the pace you will hold for a 1 mile race. This would be used if you were say running 200m or 400m reps with equal recovery
    zico10 wrote: »
    Why don't the distances add up to 80 miles? And why don't the percentages add up to 100.

    They dont come up to 100% because these only make up a small bit of your overall weekly mileage. So if you run 80 miles a week you will run 2 sessions with the volume of each session coming up to the percentages I have mentioned. The harder the intensity the less volume. I have rough paces put in the brackets and the volume in relation to an 80mile week in the second bracket depending on the emphasis of the session. The rest of the week will be made up with easy aerobic running

    If you are running 5k-10k paced session I think that with marathon runners this is a good volume provided you are running enough mileage per week. The volume of sessions should be proportional to the volume of miles per week

    So a 80 mpw runner may do 2 sessions a week of any combination of these sessions:

    Mile race pace reps: 12/24 x 200m/400m off equal recovery
    5k-10k pace reps: 5-6 miles of work with shorter recoveries
    HM pace: 6-8 miles with very short recovery (or tempo runs of 5-6)
    Marathon pace: 10-15 miles @ MP with very short/no recovery


    Hope this helps give you an idea


  • #80
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    T runner wrote: »
    Im training for Rotterdam in Spring.

    17 weeks to Rotterdam:

    Bloody hell I hadn't realised it was that close :eek:


  • #81
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    Bloody hell I hadn't realised it was that close :eek:

    Its sneaking up allright!


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  • #82
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Gonna revive this thread as looking at the Forum over the last while there are atleast double if not treble the amount of people who are in this range as there was back in the days of the Sub 3 hour thread. Been the lack of training talk recently outside of the logs so I thought this may revive a little bit of discussion

    Given that you are roughly 24 weeks out from Dublin its not a bad time to start talking training methods for people to start to work out how they are going to approach it or try have questions answered by others who have been there and done that


  • #83
    tunguska
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    ecoli wrote: »
    Gonna revive this thread as looking at the Forum over the last while there are atleast double if not treble the amount of people who are in this range as there was back in the days of the Sub 3 hour thread. Been the lack of training talk recently outside of the logs so I thought this may revive a little bit of discussion

    Given that you are roughly 24 weeks out from Dublin its not a bad time to start talking training methods for people to start to work out how they are going to approach it or try have questions answered by others who have been there and done that

    Definitely been a lot more people breaking 2:45 compared to just two years ago. Our own nike Oregon project .....The idea has been suggested a good few times but never came to fruition but it'd be great to get a group of us together to train for a marathon. I mean regular sessions, not just the odd recovery run here and there, all of us on the same training program. I think we shoot ourselves in the foot by not making more of an effort to train as a group.


  • #84
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    tunguska wrote: »
    Definitely been a lot more people breaking 2:45 compared to just two years ago. Our own nike Oregon project .....The idea has been suggested a good few times but never came to fruition but it'd be great to get a group of us together to train for a marathon. I mean regular sessions, not just the odd recovery run here and there, all of us on the same training program. I think we shoot ourselves in the foot by not making more of an effort to train as a group.

    I'm not doing Daniels :D


  • #85
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Ecoli's revived the sub 2:45, which has great training ideas in there and will hopefully be added to by the many posters who've made big gains over the last couple of years.

    I've decided to start this sub 2:50 thread because for most, I would say that 2:49 would be the logical next target after a sub-3 marathon. The vast majority of sub-3 marathoners would be capable of running the half marathon in 1:24 or under, so there is a certain amount of speed there.

    From my own personal point of view, performances have levelled out since the first sub-3 I did, primarily down to work/college life factors preventing prolonged periods of high mileage training. I did another 2:58 last Autumn, and managed a 1:22 half on a fairly tough course this March. I've maintained reasonably good shape off modest enough training since the start of the year.

    I'm in for Chicago on October 13th. It's a fast course and if weather plays ball, could give me a good chance of running a decent time. 2:50 is definitely ambitious at this moment in time, but if things go according to plan, I'll be in a position to hit the marathon-specific training phase for that target in August/September.

    My plan of action is to ramp up the mileage fairly aggressively over the next month. June/July will be primarily low intensity, high mileage conditioning. I may do one or two races during this period, but the aim is really mileage.

    In August, I'll most likely do the National Halfs in Dublin. If I can run 1.21-1.22 there off the non-specific training, I'll commit myself fully to the time target, and start the specific work with PMP set at 6:28.

    Anyone else with similar targets, be great to get sharing some thoughts.


  • #86
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    I would say it is better pool the information and camaraderie for the sake of five minutes between the two threads. If you look to the start of the thread the person who started it was actually talking of moving from 2.58 - 2.50.

    Previously on the forum the likes of KC and some of the old guard pooled together on a thread which was hugely successful even for people slightly outside of target range. the aim of the thread is to have a natural progression on from Sub 3 targets.

    Perhaps it should be renamed but ultimately I think pooling the two would be more beneficial for everyone


  • #87
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    No worries. Feel free to delete this thread, or move my post into the sub 2:45 thread. I suppose felt slightly out of my depth with the likes of some of the guys in the sub 2:45 thread, who are actually running in the 2:30 - 2:40 range, which would probably never be realistic for me personally.

    However, it does make more sense to keep it all together. Shut this one down if you want. Cheers.

    Actually, scratch that, I'll just copy it in there myself.


  • #88
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    I suppose felt slightly out of my depth with the likes of some of the guys in the sub 2:45 thread

    To this I have one response

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935733&postcount=1

    We always look to guys running faster and think its not possible but to be honest alot of the time it is just us being a few steps behind them in our training life.


  • #89
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Good point Ecoli. I'm not big into putting limitations on myself, but realistically, getting down below 2:45 would take a hell of a lot more consistency than I've had for the last couple of years. The next couple of years should allow for steadier year-round training hopefully.

    I've probably relaxed a little into a relative comfort zone in the last couple of years. There is constant improvement with PBs at all distances last year, and so far this year in the 5k and the half. But, I think I need a big of a major target to get me moving a bit. Sub 2:55 would probably be a bit soft, and not much different from the 2:58 in reality. I'd love to have been doing more consistent training since January, but I suppose I am where I am. As it stands, the 10k I did two weeks ago was the exact same time as a July 10k last year, with this year's one on a much tougher course, so I'm well ahead of where I was in May last year.

    You plan on marathoning this Autumn yourself or are you giving it another year or two?


  • #90
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,533 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    ecoli wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935733&postcount=1
    :D That's gas.


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  • #91
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    ecoli wrote: »

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935733&postcount=1

    Wow, That's one to bookmark!!


  • #92
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    It's bloody incredible to be honest how far you've come Krusty and a good kick up the arse for somebody like myself.

    In my 8 years of running marathons, my total improvement is 38 minutes, which isn't bad. The problem is that in my first 2.5 years, that figure read 36 minutes. So, the marathon PB has only improved by 2 minutes since April 2008 which just proves that I haven't put in anywhere near the work that many others have done.

    Neet to start beating myself up a bit, do the hard miles, and commit to a proper target


  • #93
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    Good point Ecoli. I'm not big into putting limitations on myself, but realistically, getting down below 2:45 would take a hell of a lot more consistency than I've had for the last couple of years. The next couple of years should allow for steadier year-round training hopefully.

    I've probably relaxed a little into a relative comfort zone in the last couple of years. There is constant improvement with PBs at all distances last year, and so far this year in the 5k and the half. But, I think I need a big of a major target to get me moving a bit. Sub 2:55 would probably be a bit soft, and not much different from the 2:58 in reality. I'd love to have been doing more consistent training since January, but I suppose I am where I am. As it stands, the 10k I did two weeks ago was the exact same time as a July 10k last year, with this year's one on a much tougher course, so I'm well ahead of where I was in May last year.

    You plan on marathoning this Autumn yourself or are you giving it another year or two?

    The fact that you are bringing down the shorter distance PBs shows you are improving so it might just take a specific marathon block and a bit of an increase in mileage and there is no reason why you can't take major chunks out of that time.

    Planning on Rotterdam myself but I know that if I am to have any chance of hitting my (albeit lofty) target, the work is gonna have to begin now.

    Have had a long term plan for roughly 18 months but to be honest I have not given it 100% so results have been fairly poor this year. The only positive is that looking at previous years I go through phases of very good training followed by nothing. The last 5 months though they have been poor have been more consistent so I am hoping that getting the training back on track the more consistent (albeit semi poor) training will have me at a better starting point.


  • #94
    blockic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    ecoli wrote: »
    To this I have one response

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935733&postcount=1

    We always look to guys running faster and think its not possible but to be honest alot of the time it is just us being a few steps behind them in our training life.

    Wow - that is some post! Just shows what one can do with determination and hard work...and a small bit of talent! ;)


  • #95
    ronnie085
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭ronnie085


    Ok going to nail my colours to the mast. Going to change approach from P&D that I used to a decent amount of success in most marathons I've done and going to give Danials an 18 week shot. The elite plan looks a bit too scary so at the moment looking at plan a to get me to sub 2:40, maybe a little more. Depending on on the next few weeks go building up I'll be hoping to max out around the 100 mile mark, previous max week was 95 miles in the build up to London this year. I need to fix a few few things as well, such as diet, flexability and core/ strength work which has all gone by the wayside this year. So being the first time really using Danials I'll be back with loads of stupid questions and maybe even looking for people to drag me around some of the tougher sessions ;)

    Will just stick a link to this thread started by ecoli a while back which could help getting a group together http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75328439


  • #96
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    You got any sort of plan of races ronnie085, I presume it's the Dublin marathon or are you venturing further overseas?

    I think I'm going to find it hard to stay away from races during the base-building phase. Even on today's 12 mile run about with a couple of the lads, I more or less talked myself into running around three races in June/July. I suppose no harm in them really, but it'll be important to keep the eye on the more important ball in October.


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  • #97
    KielyUnusual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭KielyUnusual


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    Ecoli's revived the sub 2:45, which has great training ideas in there and will hopefully be added to by the many posters who've made big gains over the last couple of years.

    I've decided to start this sub 2:50 thread because for most, I would say that 2:49 would be the logical next target after a sub-3 marathon. The vast majority of sub-3 marathoners would be capable of running the half marathon in 1:24 or under, so there is a certain amount of speed there.

    From my own personal point of view, performances have levelled out since the first sub-3 I did, primarily down to work/college life factors preventing prolonged periods of high mileage training. I did another 2:58 last Autumn, and managed a 1:22 half on a fairly tough course this March. I've maintained reasonably good shape off modest enough training since the start of the year.

    I'm in for Chicago on October 13th. It's a fast course and if weather plays ball, could give me a good chance of running a decent time. 2:50 is definitely ambitious at this moment in time, but if things go according to plan, I'll be in a position to hit the marathon-specific training phase for that target in August/September.

    My plan of action is to ramp up the mileage fairly aggressively over the next month. June/July will be primarily low intensity, high mileage conditioning. I may do one or two races during this period, but the aim is really mileage.

    In August, I'll most likely do the National Halfs in Dublin. If I can run 1.21-1.22 there off the non-specific training, I'll commit myself fully to the time target, and start the specific work with PMP set at 6:28.

    Anyone else with similar targets, be great to get sharing some thoughts.

    If you're running 1.22 in a tough half when your main focus seems to be elsewhere then you have to be thinking of sub 2.50 when you get back in to proper training. We have a very similar approach to tackling the marathon and I'd love to see you put up a proper log when you pick one to run again. I reckon there'd be good insight there for a lot of people. Are you thinking of running Dublin maybe?


  • #98
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    When that thread started I disregarded it because it was not my level, but times change and by now I'm reasonably confident that I might break 2:50 next year.

    I have been following some form of Canova training (there was a very good thread here about it last year, t-runner gave a lot of info) to get me to 2:55 on a day that didn't go too smoothly, and with a bit more improvement I do think that sub-2:50 will be achievable on a good day.


  • #99
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Yeah, I was sort of toying with the idea of a training log, just not sure it's for me really. I'll likely keep a bit of fortnightly updates of progress using this thread if it stays alive and healthy.

    No, staying away from Dublin again this year. It's all about Chicago on 13th October. Anything else is just padding. The training will probably read fairly boring for the next few weeks, just getting mileage up with the odd race to get an idea where I am.

    The 1.22 was a surprise alright, to be honest. I really didn't think I was in that shape, but its sort of given me the confidence to commit to a more agressive marathon target.

    You lining anything up for the Summer/Autumn?


  • #100
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,084 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    ronnie085 wrote: »
    Ok going to nail my colours to the mast. Going to change approach from P&D that I used to a decent amount of success in most marathons I've done and going to give Danials an 18 week shot. The elite plan looks a bit too scary so at the moment looking at plan a to get me to sub 2:40, maybe a little more. Depending on on the next few weeks go building up I'll be hoping to max out around the 100 mile mark, previous max week was 95 miles in the build up to London this year. I need to fix a few few things as well, such as diet, flexability and core/ strength work which has all gone by the wayside this year. So being the first time really using Danials I'll be back with loads of stupid questions and maybe even looking for people to drag me around some of the tougher sessions ;)

    Will just stick a link to this thread started by ecoli a while back which could help getting a group together http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75328439

    In hindsight I enjoyed Daniels and there's definitely some sessions in there that will become part of regular training the 2 x (20minE + 20minT) + 2E is a great year round session and will never leave you too far from specific training from a 10k to Marathon. I also loved the flexibility, plug in your max mileage, focus on 2 key sessions and run the rest how you feel.
    It did leave me a little whacked at times, so having the same focus on the rest, nutrition and diet will stand to you.


  • #101
    KielyUnusual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭KielyUnusual


    I'm looking at focusing on a 10 mile and possibly a 10k race over the summer. Probably run the 10 mile marathon series in the park. It would be a good one for getting in some really specific training over the summer because I run a lot in the park anyway. I'll be trying to complete out the ten round numbers too so I'll be down at a couple of the graded meets. Of course the beer mile is high on the agenda as well. I'll hopefully be getting some good race specific training this week. A bit of experimentation will have to be carried out. My current downing of drinks ability is nowhere near up to scratch. Probably pace the Dublin Marathon too if they need people. It sounds like a packed agenda when I put it all down on paper. I didn't think I had much running planned at all.


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