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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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12357…328

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    #122
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    yawhat? wrote: »
    Another live one.
    It’s to dampen down the geographical spread of the virus.
    It’s not saying a person from 2km away is less risk than a person from 7km away.
    The logic is pretty simple. To say there is no logic is pretty stupid. If you can’t see the logic, then you are pretty simple.
    You might not agree with the measure, but that’s a different argument.

    You seem to have great insight into the distance restriction.

    Without the ability to test you have no way to know if the "Geographical spread" is actually happening or not, it's guess work.

    Confining people into these 2k, 5k circles as a blanket measure, is a blunt tool, someone who lives in a 5k radius which within in could have a population of 100,000+ with many more social contacts from just walking down the street, going to the supermarket, doesn't make sense when you apply it to someone who lives in Leitrim with a population of around 32,000 people and an area of 1,590 km2, they can walk 10k and not meet anyone...

    So basically, these 2k/5k limits are pointless.


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    #123
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    polesheep wrote: »
    So anyone who criticises the government and its advisors is "pampered and self-entitled fools who are lashing out blindly. They're usually the perfect fodder for political manipulation. Useful idiots." That still makes no sense to any intelligent person.

    This is kind of boring now. You should try to read the whole post properly. Or maybe you're deliberately misquoting. Read it again in the context of "...and dismiss their pressure and stress..."


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    #124
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    And who also was responsible for founding the HSE the organisation that has come under fire for many reasons a lot of them justifiable in fairness.

    The European union


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    #125
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    This is kind of boring now. You should try to read the whole post properly. Or maybe you're deliberately misquoting. Read it again in the context of "...and dismiss their pressure and stress..."

    I understand that you hero worship the government and its advisors, but they faced no more stress than any other government, many of which handled things much better and they knew that it comes with the job when they took it. I also think that you will find that there has been considerably more pressure and stress felt by those responsible for handling the major fu*k up that your heroes caused in the nursing/care homes.


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    #126
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    faceman wrote: »
    Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

    Its been clearly explained many times by Tony H, the exact figures to be achieved before the restrictions are lifted are similar for R value, hospitalisation numbers and new cases numbers.

    Those numbers need to be "as low as possible".


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    #127
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    faceman wrote: »
    Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

    The aim appears to be from the HSE to keep the R0 rate at 0.5 and less until a Vaccine is discovered, tested, manufactured, distributed globally to billions..

    So perhaps by late Spring 2021 at the earliest, we may have a vaccine.

    What's clear now is that by Ireland following the Lockdown it cannot be dismantled overnight it cannot be brought forward to any degree of significance, the shutdown of the economy and society and the implementation of restrictive laws now have to be gradually reduced as they are being now. Those in power know that stepping back won't work either, even the best in the world at fighting this, South Korea know this too...though they live in a much more compliant/disciplined society.


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    #128
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Its been clearly explained many times by Tony H, the exact figures to be achieved before the restrictions are lifted are similar for R value, hospitalisation numbers and new cases numbers.
    Those numbers need to be "as low as possible".

    They are "as low as possible"

    Unless you completely close the borders to NI/UK/Europe, test and trace spikes in infections, re-introduce further and more restrictive lockdowns.

    Using the R0 rate as a way to measure success without mass testing to see who has Covid and who has had it is also another blunt tool.


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    #129
    Jackman25
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Jackman25


    yawhat? wrote: »
    Another live one.

    It’s to dampen down the geographical spread of the virus.

    It’s not saying a person from 2km away is less risk than a person from 7km away.

    The logic is pretty simple. To say there is no logic is pretty stupid. If you can’t see the logic, then you are pretty simple.

    You might not agree with the measure, but that’s a different argument.

    You can lose the attitude. It makes you look like a twat.

    I cannot see the logic of people not being able to visit family with suitable social distancing outside 20KM for 5 months.
    With social distancing or even remaining outside for the duration of the visit, the chances of it being passed on are absolutely miniscule if not non-existent.

    Even in the extremely unlikely event of it being passed on, the continued observance of social distancing should keep it contained and make for very easy contact tracing.



    Contact tracing should be very straightforward. Social distancing should keep it from spreading even with the miniscule chance of it being passed to said family.


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    #130
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    polesheep wrote: »
    I understand that you hero worship the government and its advisors, but they faced no more stress than any other government, many of which handled things much better and they knew that it comes with the job when they took it. I also think that you will find that there has been considerably more pressure and stress felt by those responsible for handling the major fu*k up that your heroes caused in the nursing/care homes.

    So, because I have sympathy for Vradakar, Harris and Holohan in having to make life and death decisions, they are my "heroes". That's rather shallow and binary thinking isn't it?


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    #131
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    To be honest i don’t agree with it being called a Mickey Mouse virus. For most people it probably will be but in my situation i have to be cautious..

    Both my parents are in their 70’s. They are quite fit and active but both have heart conditions. Even with their conditions they still could get another good 10 years.

    If they got this virus tomorrow it could take those potential 10 years away in a blink of an eye. As we all know 10 years in a short lifetime is a nice chunk out of anyone’s lifespan. You can do lots in 10 years.

    However I’m all for easing restrictions in correlation to how bad it is. If it keeps improving the way it has been some phases should definitely be brought forward.

    yeah, I meant to clarify this earlier and got distracted. My parents and and one brother, are cocooning. They obviously go out for grocery shopping, drive, one goes in to do the shopping. I was speaking to my mum yesterday and we were just having a general chat, I just told her I couldnt care less if I caught it. But obviously I was telling her to make sure to be as reasonably safe as possible , likewise the bro and dad. When I say the mickey mouse virus, I mean to the vast majority of us. I am just so frustrated with the over the top lockdown and I absolutely knew this was coming the moment this hit, its such an appalling run country, devoid of leadership and loves nothing but talking, talking and more talking...

    I dont like being told what to do, at the start, the approach taken was the right one, but I wont even give them credit for that, of course a hyper conservative government and media, were always going to do for that route. The blatant cost of that, is now, they shut up shop pretty quickly, but look at what this type of governance does now. I can see a few months and years down the road, the payback this will likely have! Many will change their minds then on this "lock it all down mentality"..,


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    #132
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    They are "as low as possible"

    Unless you completely close the borders to NI/UK/Europe, test and trace spikes in infections, re-introduce further and more restrictive lockdowns.

    Using the R0 rate as a way to measure success without mass testing to see who has Covid and who has had it is also another blunt tool.

    I read somewhere recently, can't find it right now, that it is estimated that less than 5% of Ireland's population has been infected.


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    #133
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,095 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Its been clearly explained many times by Tony H, the exact figures to be achieved before the restrictions are lifted are similar for R value, hospitalisation numbers and new cases numbers.

    Those numbers need to be "as low as possible".

    As low as possible is not at all clear .It is only so they can move the goalposts as they see fit
    Technically as low as possible means zero


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    #134
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    I cannot post a link but there is a story in the Cork Examiner on what Holohan said at the presser yesterday.

    - in respect to easing the lockdown he said we are different than other countries in Europe in terms of our peak - is this the case particularly if we exclude nursing home deaths? (the blame lies with Tony and Simon on that one).
    - he does not foresee air travel in the short term and people should not make plans (who TF made this guy the Government).

    The Government from next week needs to stop these press conferences and make them politician led. Michael O’Leary and Michael Smurfit are right - this man is dangerous.

    Edit - I think this situation is dangerous on many levels. Advisors advise and Ministers decide.


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    #135
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    As low as possible is not at all clear .It is only so they can move the goalposts as they see fit
    Technically as low as possible means zero

    Perhaps zero is not enough if they perceive the risk to remain.


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    #136
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    faceman wrote: »
    Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

    Lockdown forever and patronise the entire population every 3/4 days


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    #137
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    I cannot post a link but there is a story in the Cork Examiner on what Holohan said at the presser yesterday.

    - in respect to easing the lockdown he said we are different than other countries in Europe in terms of our peak - is this the case particularly if we exclude nursing home deaths? (the blame lies with Tony and Simon on that one).
    - he does not foresee air travel in the short term and people should not make plans (who TF made this guy the Government).

    The Government from next week needs to stop these press conferences and make them politician led. Michael O’Leary and Michael Smurfit are right - this man is dangerous.

    Oh uh, i am looking at Ryanair website now to book return tickets Dublin to Berlin for 100 euros roundtrip and see a 4 star city centre 9/10 rated hotel for 3 nights with breakfast and free cancellation 268 euros.

    What do i do?

    These low prices are hypnotising


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    #138
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    So basically, these 2k/5k limits are pointless.
    They work in the sense that most people will comply with them so you do have a form of control of movement.


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    #139
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I read somewhere recently, can't find it right now, that it is estimated that less than 5% of Ireland's population has been infected.

    An estimate, based on a mathematical model, could be 50%, again we don't know without mass-Immunological testing...


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    #140
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Oh uh, i am looking at Ryanair website now to book return tickets Dublin to Berlin for 100 euros roundtrip and see a 4 star city centre 9/10 rated hotel for 3 nights with breakfast and free cancellation 268 euros.

    What do i do?

    These low prices are hypnotising

    Book it. I have booked trips also. Essential travel for my mental health.


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    #141
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Oh uh, i am looking at Ryanair website now to book return tickets Dublin to Berlin for 100 euros roundtrip and see a 4 star city centre 9/10 rated hotel for 3 nights with breakfast and free cancellation 268 euros.

    What do i do?

    These low prices are hypnotising

    If you think you'll be safe and you aren't infectious, you should go.


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    #142
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Oh uh, i am looking at Ryanair website now to book return tickets Dublin to Berlin for 100 euros roundtrip and see a 4 star city centre 9/10 rated hotel for 3 nights with breakfast and free cancellation 268 euros.

    What do i do?

    These low prices are hypnotising

    Wouldn't risk it - posted earlier where it was reported about a flight to lanzorote where passenger tested positive in the air - the whole 140 passengers are now in quarantine and he is facing prosecution.


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    #143
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    faceman wrote: »
    Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?
    Currently to finish Phase 1 while keeping an eye on how other countries are getting on. The full roadmap document talks about flexibility about the easing of measures.


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    #144
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They work in the sense that most people will comply with them so you do have a form of control of movement.

    Of course, from surveys it seems that the majority of people are in compliance, how that figure changes in the next 2 to 3 months will be interesting...


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    #145
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    nickkinneg wrote: »
    Wouldn't risk it - posted earlier where it was reported about a flight to lanzorote where passenger tested positive in the air - the whole 140 passengers are now in quarantine and he is facing prosecution.

    Did the cabin crew perform a Covid test during the flight or before this passenger got on board?


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    #146
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    An estimate, based on a mathematical model, could be 50%, again we don't know without mass-Immunological testing...
    We will be doing sampling of 5000 initially. Range in other countries is from about 5% to 12%.


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    #147
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They work in the sense that most people will comply with them so you do have a form of control of movement.

    We can look forward to 20km for the next six weeks after the 8th

    Full travel on 20th July

    Meanwhile in the North, UK, Italy and many more countries you can go as far as you like

    You would think our experience is far worse than any other with the glacial pace of easing restrictions


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    #148
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Of course, from surveys it seems that the majority of people are in compliance, how that figure changes in the next 2 to 3 months will be interesting...
    Well I think we are out to 20km from June 8. I'm also inclined to think that easing will ultimately move faster than the roadmap plan.


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    #149
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    I cannot post a link but there is a story in the Cork Examiner on what Holohan said at the presser yesterday.

    - in respect to easing the lockdown he said we are different than other countries in Europe in terms of our peak - is this the case particularly if we exclude nursing home deaths? (the blame lies with Tony and Simon on that one).
    - he does not foresee air travel in the short term and people should not make plans (who TF made this guy the Government).

    The Government from next week needs to stop these press conferences and make them politician led. Michael O’Leary and Michael Smurfit are right - this man is dangerous.

    Article in the the Irish Times (I think) this morning showed Dublin peaked April 10th and the rest of the country a week later on April 17th

    Six weeks ago


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    #150
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Did the cabin crew perform a Covid test during the flight or before this passenger got on board?
    "Reports say the passenger took a COVID-19 test before he travelled because he had been in contact with someone who had died from the virus and had attended the funeral.

    However, he left before the result came in and it was only revealed he was positive when the aircraft was in mid-air"


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    #151
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    If you think you'll be safe and you aren't infectious, you should go.

    I have an infectious smile and careless attitude and want to live life to the fullest. ;)


This discussion has been closed.
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