Universities/colleges

mikhail · 30-05-2020 2:46pm

Vital Transformation wrote: »

Why are colleges shutting down so much compared to the schools?

Not only are schools returning earlier, it seems like they'll be taking far more of a "business as usual" approach. At least compared to colleges, where it looks like in person lectures are going to be either outright cancelled or the capacity reduced by 90%.

Universities seem to be better able to operate remotely, with students mature enough not to require constant supervision. Letting schools resume frees up parents to return to work too. University students mix much more between classes too - often taking modules with entirely different groups around the university during the day (e.g. engineering students taking maths, physics, programming classes in different departments), whereas schoolkids are either in a single class, or have limited mixing within a year at second level.

mikhail · 30-05-2020 2:49pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Just to add to this in a way probably most people wouldn't expect.

The hygiene standards of some people in Universities / Colleges can be truly appalling. I've worked in a research building where almost everyone was educated to doctoral level or enrolled in a doctoral degree. In that very same building, signs had to be put up in the bathrooms and emails sent around telling people that it is not okay to shít all over the toilet seat and floor and walk away afterwards, leaving it for other people or cleaning staff to deal with.

Trusting people to be responsible about washing their hands really isn't a given.

Oh, many an office has had a phantom pooper. That's seems to be a failure mode of humanity, not just university students.

gauchesnell · 30-05-2020 6:47pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Often these diseases are confined to those involved in certain activities, which can be avoided, or are confined to the offspring of anti-vaxers.

true measles can be vaccinated against I think...gnorrhoea not so much.

the contagious disease outbreak we had before lockdown I had never come across before though.

Many bathrooms in my workplace have had to be locked due to phantom poopers.

So yeah universities/colleges are like multinationals towns with phantom poopers and contagious diseases.

mc25 · 30-05-2020 9:53pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Just to add to this in a way probably most people wouldn't expect.

The hygiene standards of some people in Universities / Colleges can be truly appalling. I've worked in a research building where almost everyone was educated to doctoral level or enrolled in a doctoral degree. In that very same building, signs had to be put up in the bathrooms and emails sent around telling people that it is not okay to shít all over the toilet seat and floor and walk away afterwards, leaving it for other people or cleaning staff to deal with.

Trusting people to be responsible about washing their hands really isn't a given.

I had the same signs in my building!

And frequent emails from the health department about outbreaks of mumps, so yeah people can't be trusted with proper hygiene 100% of the time

Mjolnir · 30-05-2020 11:53pm

We've had an unofficial well there'll be blended learning email. The aul tutorials and labs will take place I.e I ain't driving 2 hours to sit in a 1 hour tutorial sound lads a year without travel so. Well I hope.

On the point of mixing, theres a lot of degrees mix in class subjects, plus you actually have to go out of your way not to walk in to the mindless crowds on my campus. They will literally stand blocking main doors to buildings. I'm not being mean but the lack of common sense and manners in school leavers now is insanely low, I personally wouldn't trust them to obey any form of distancing if we were all on campus at staggered times.

gauchesnell · 31-05-2020 12:00am

well Id say crowds will be gone for while. Groups always do seem to gather at entrances etc.

Logistics like that will have to be worked out by colleges and will be the responsibility of colleges to enforce. Questions like that have already been raised by staff in my workplace..i.e. one way corridors and enforcement and all that.

No mindless crowds hopefully for a while. Blended learning congrats.

Smegging hell · 27-08-2020 5:26pm

Several universities in the US revert to online teaching as outbreaks take place: https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-19-us-colleges-luke-oneill-1066961

gauchesnell · 28-08-2020 1:13am

Waterford seems to be the first fully online

https://waterford-news.ie/2020/08/27/wit-goes-off-campus-for-coming-academic-year/#.X0hLnshKjIU

This may be the same as my university - students on campus maybe one day every 3 weeks.

SleetAndSnow · 28-08-2020 11:08am

Have been told by UCC I'll be in college maximum 2hrs a week with everything else online. They are working out tutorials and that may give an extra 30 mins a week or so but they will most likely be online also.

theballz · 15-09-2020 6:07pm

My partner is due to return for her final semester in university next month in Dublin (university shall not be named.)

The university did release guidelines but they are beyond fluffy. The guidelines do not provide any sort of indication as to how students will remain socially distant within the classroom, the rooms are tiny with little or no ventilation. The guidelines basically explain one way systems, hand santization and how the canteen will work.

As this is adult education, the average age in the class is mid-late 40's (at a guess.) The university are not willing to enter any sort of discussion with her when she flagged this concern.

She simply asked "what are you doing to ensure student remain socially distant in class?" and they revert to a book of guidelines that doesn't explain it. It is simply not safe, we have family who are cocooning and I am shocked at the lack of transparency around this.

Is anyone else having similar issues?

byhookorbycrook · 15-09-2020 6:23pm

theballz wrote: »

My partner is due to return for her final semester in university next month in Dublin (university shall not be named.)

The university did release guidelines but they are beyond fluffy. The guidelines do not provide any sort of indication as to how students will remain socially distant within the classroom, the rooms are tiny with little or no ventilation. The guidelines basically explain one way systems, hand santization and how the canteen will work.

As this is adult education, the average age in the class is mid-late 40's (at a guess.) The university are not willing to enter any sort of discussion with her when she flagged this concern.

She simply asked "what are you doing to ensure student remain socially distant in class?" and they revert to a book of guidelines that doesn't explain it. It is simply not safe, we have family who are cocooning and I am shocked at the lack of transparency around this.

Is anyone else having similar issues?

Govt are on record as sayings schools and colleges must stay open “ at all costs .” This is one of those “ costs .”

Smegging hell · 15-09-2020 8:55pm

I agree with you theballz and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a volte-face on face to face teaching as cases appear on campuses. The government's plan to keep higher and adult education open even in a stage five scenario is utterly bonkers - thousands of students commuting from around the country into colleges even in the 'worst-case' situation in which everyone bar essential workers works from home. I teach a number of classes in an MA course and am relieved it will be moving online, but it seems to be an outlier in my university.

Beasty · 15-09-2020 9:52pm

Threads merged

peckerhead · 15-09-2020 11:26pm

My hunch is that the colleges will continue to remain vague about arrangements because they still don't know –

(a) how they will cope with the restrictions governing on-campus presence. There's bedlam every year with timetables and room allocations even without the current problems.

(b) how they will cope with the loss of fee income from international students, They're going to have to slash part-time staff costs, research funds, anything not immediately essential to the continued short-term functioning of the institution.

Theyre under the cosh but they'll continue to sing from the "everything under control here" hymnsheet until students have taken up their places and enrolled, so that capitation fees are locked in. Then in a few weeks' time, there'll be an outbreak, one campus will shut down again and go full online, and the others will follow suit. Their "hands will be tied"....

As someone said, it's gonna be an interesting year - for lecturing staff as well as students.

gauchesnell · 15-09-2020 11:33pm

christ what nonsense. Timetables have already been released - well for my university they have and Im staff. International students are down but still arriving cos they have to as most programmes are not 100% online.

Some programmes are already fully online and that doesnt impact on fees. Again it varies per college but ours are nearly all online except for those required to be on campus.

gauchesnell · 15-09-2020 11:38pm

As to the original question it doesnt state how many of her classes are on campus. Classes are also being split into smaller groups when rooms are smaller - again just speaking for my own college.

Also its not clear if your partner is concerned about going back or cant go back - not all students can remember that. Maybe find out what are the backup plans for students who cant go back

theballz wrote: »

My partner is due to return for her final semester in university next month in Dublin (university shall not be named.)

The university did release guidelines but they are beyond fluffy. The guidelines do not provide any sort of indication as to how students will remain socially distant within the classroom, the rooms are tiny with little or no ventilation. The guidelines basically explain one way systems, hand santization and how the canteen will work.

As this is adult education, the average age in the class is mid-late 40's (at a guess.) The university are not willing to enter any sort of discussion with her when she flagged this concern.

She simply asked "what are you doing to ensure student remain socially distant in class?" and they revert to a book of guidelines that doesn't explain it. It is simply not safe, we have family who are cocooning and I am shocked at the lack of transparency around this.

Is anyone else having similar issues?

peckerhead · 15-09-2020 11:45pm

In my case, the vast majority of teaching took place on-campus before the lockdown (and suffered from the logistical issues I mention. There are class groups of 250/300 students involved). We're due to resume classes on Sept. 28th and there's still no timetable, bar the rotational on/off-campus schedules for the various programmes.

Obviously if courses were mostly online to begin with, that's a different matter. But the bulk of undergraduate students were attending college the old-fashioned way, and their experience is going to be hugely altered.

gauchesnell · 15-09-2020 11:46pm

my god

are you saying the bulk of UG students will be on campus

peckerhead wrote: »

In my case, the vast majority of teaching took place on-campus before the lockdown (and suffered from the logistical issues I mention. There are class groups of 250/300 students involved). We're due to resume classes on Sept. 28th and there's still no timetable, bar the rotational on/off-campus schedules for the various programmes.

Obviously if courses were mostly online to begin with, that's a different matter. But the bulk of undergraduate students were attending college the old-fashioned way, and their experience is going to be hugely altered.

peckerhead · 16-09-2020 9:19am

gauchesnell wrote: »

my god

are you saying the bulk of UG students will be on campus

No.

theballz · 16-09-2020 9:47am

gauchesnell wrote: »

As to the original question it doesnt state how many of her classes are on campus. Classes are also being split into smaller groups when rooms are smaller - again just speaking for my own college.

Also its not clear if your partner is concerned about going back or cant go back - not all students can remember that. Maybe find out what are the backup plans for students who cant go back

Thank you for your feedback.

The text in Bold is exactly the issue. The Univsersity is not providing any of this information despite a number of students asking the question, it's either because they have not defined the plan (never mind a backup) or they simply don't know - either way, some clarity would be welcomed.

The frustration is they are unwilling to share by any means.

Mrs OBumble · 16-09-2020 11:57am

gauchesnell wrote: »

Maybe find out what are the backup plans for students who cant go back

Why should there be one?

Its a 3rd level course, you either get with the programme (online, offline, blended, whatever it is) or you don't do the programme. You don't get a personalised version.

Smegging hell · 17-09-2020 4:19pm

Looks like planned face to face teaching will be cut back even before campuses reopen. https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1306560993703661570

Smegging hell · 17-09-2020 4:32pm

Meanwhile, NUIG expects postgrads to come back to campus to work without pay. https://twitter.com/pgwanuig/status/1306225286309122050

deckie66 · 18-09-2020 11:21am

With the increased measures being proposed for Dublin should the four Dublin universities and indeed maynooth as well, due to its proximity, keep their campuses close and deliver all lectures online?

All four are due to open for the academic year in the next fortnight, some such as UCD as soon as next Monday.

While there is no doubt that distancing can be applied in lecture halls, the bigger issue is the sheer volume of students descending on Dublin in the next fortnight.

Once any level of campus activity is occurring then students will congregate and socialise near to campuses , in student accommodation etc?

Unlike schools, the higher education has the technology to move efficiently online - they did in March and indeed to carry out assessment and examining remotely.

The four Dublin universities have almost 100,000 students between them, not to mention staff.

Surely the government needs to ere on the side of caution and instruct the higher education sector to have online delivery only until the situation improves?

ShineOn7 · 18-09-2020 1:42pm

Absolutely not. It's 2020 ffs, there's broadband and all students have a laptop or a PC or access to either (failing that, Chromebooks are now very affordable)

Dublin is fúcked as it is and this is before the colleges are back

mikhail · 18-09-2020 2:25pm

UCD just sent an email to all students to say next week's classes are probably all online. (And I think they're just hedging their bets on the probably.)

Government advice is to close the campus at level 4. Government is moving Dublin to level 3, so this is the university being conservative.

vid36 · 18-09-2020 2:53pm

mikhail wrote: »

UCD just sent an email to all students to say next week's classes are probably all online. (And I think they're just hedging their bets on the probably.)

Government advice is to close the campus at level 4. Government is moving Dublin to level 3, so this is the university being conservative.

From the leaks, its clear that level 4 restrictions will apply to third level as well as pubs and restaurants.

eviltwin · 18-09-2020 3:02pm

I'm back in college since last week. I'm doing a course that can be delivered completely online - and was, quite successfully, during March and April - but the powers that be have requested we have two days of classes per week in house.

Why this is I'm not sure. We have courses that require a practical element that need to be there more than we do but we are all being brought back. The rooms can be socially distanced fair enough but not so much the corridors. Bathrooms will be a huge issue as will smoking areas, library access etc.

LessOutragePlz · 18-09-2020 3:05pm

Yes they should all reopen I think attending lectures in person is more conducive to learning others may disagree but I always felt I got more out of attending lectures in person versus viewing them online.

ednwireland · 18-09-2020 3:08pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's 2020 ffs, there's broadband and all students have a laptop or a PC or access to either (failing that, Chromebooks are now very affordable)

you really think that ? i think you are out of touch with the student population , plenty don't have access to decent broadband, laptops, or even a decent smartphone .

18-09-2020 3:09pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Yes they should all reopen I think attending lectures in person is more conducive to learning others may disagree but I always felt I got more out of attending lectures in person versus viewing them online.

I did too but there's no way campuses should be reopening given we're already heading back to the ha'penny place.

CRI0ST0IR · 18-09-2020 3:11pm

No they should not.

As this virus is still growing at a rapid rate, and large clusters the colleges shouldnt be allowed to open. Every college student most likely has a laptop or computer of some sort. With the colleges reopening also means more house parties and more clusters.

deckie66 · 18-09-2020 3:23pm

Apparently UCD has announced that it is going fully online

Scuid Mhór · 18-09-2020 3:26pm

deckie66 wrote: »

Apparently UCD has announced that it is going fully online

Source?

Smegging hell · 18-09-2020 3:29pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Why this is I'm not sure. We have courses that require a practical element that need to be there more than we do but we are all being brought back. The rooms can be socially distanced fair enough but not so much the corridors. Bathrooms will be a huge issue as will smoking areas, library access etc.

In a word: money. Had a conversation with a university lecturer about this recently. He said 3rd level dependence on fees especially from students outside the EU is a major factor with the decision to at least be seen to go ahead with face to face teaching in some capacity.

However, I think it's inevitable universities across the state will follow UCD in moving to online teaching as case numbers rise. There are too many variables which will allow cases to spread on campuses and in wider communities when students go home on the weekends or go to work in part-time jobs etc.

Smegging hell · 18-09-2020 3:33pm

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Source?

Email sent to UCD staff today. Moving online except for labs and similar practical subjects.

https://twitter.com/AidanOSulliva15/status/1306938832953249795

https://twitter.com/WhelanKarl/status/1306952252020723718

https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty/status/1306953385229398019

Away With The Fairies · 18-09-2020 4:00pm

Colleges in Dublin shouldn't open. Students travelling up to Dublin for class and going home at the weekend. What can possibly go wrong?

stephenjmcd · 18-09-2020 4:03pm

Not sure what the point is here, the vast majority had already announced 90% of the courses were going online for semester 1 at least.

My own brother in DIT is in campus once every 3 weeks and the rest is online

ShooterSF · 18-09-2020 4:05pm

I'm a little disappointed as I'm in ucd as a mature student and I found last semester very difficult learning from home even though it saves me 3 hours of a commute each day. But it is totally understandable given the way the numbers are going that precautions have to be taken and it probably further underlines the problem with primary and secondary education being used by our society as a daycare more than a place of education as it is the reason I feel they are keeping them open no matter level we end up at.

Open the Pubs · 18-09-2020 4:07pm

I'd be deferring the year or not attending this year if I was still a student. Full fees for online learning and loss of all the social aspects and making friends at college. Not worth it.

deckie66 · 18-09-2020 4:26pm

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I'd be deferring the year or not attending this year if I was still a student. Full fees for online learning and loss of all the social aspects and making friends at college. Not worth it.

Interesting that when the deadline for CAO acceptances closed on wednesday, only 75% of Level 8 offers had been accepted

TCDStudent1 · 18-09-2020 4:37pm

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I'd be deferring the year or not attending this year if I was still a student. Full fees for online learning and loss of all the social aspects and making friends at college. Not worth it.

I think I would advise Leaving Cert students from 2020 to do that too, or people at that age.

If you were a final year student, it might suit as allows you to focus on study rather than social life. Thats what I should have done in my last year of college!

:)

I think they are right to move lectures online.

ShineOn7 · 18-09-2020 4:48pm

ednwireland wrote: »

you really think that ? i think you are out of touch with the student population , plenty don't have access to decent broadband, laptops, or even a decent smartphone .

I think you're out of touch with reality if you don't think that Online Learning shouldn't be at least an option to students

Let the minority who don't have broadband go into the classes if they wish. It'll keep the numbers way down in colleges, which is needed in 2020

A secondhand Chromebook is about 100 euros. A student would spend that on two weekends partying pre Covid

deckie66 · 26-09-2020 5:24pm

So the first two weeks will be online but its hard to see anything other than the whole term up to christmas being online.

They really need to get the students to stay at home. No pint in stopping lectures if students still show up and socialise at their accommodation

ShineOn7 · 26-09-2020 7:03pm

ednwireland wrote: »

you really think that ? i think you are out of touch with the student population , plenty don't have access to decent broadband, laptops, or even a decent smartphone .

Are they living in Outer Mongolia? There's 14 year olds walking around with iPhone 11s ffs

As for broadband that's good enough for online learning; you don't need a lot of broadband juice to learn online. We're not talking about uploading 50Gbs a day here

Ll31 · 26-09-2020 7:16pm

If it's entirely online how can colleges justify not reducing fees- quality of learning experience is definitely reduced, access to libraries etc reduced, tutorials poorer in terms of discussions etc. College experience itself non existent.

I genuinely feel sorry for current 3rd level students-think they are losing out hugely.

Gradius · 26-09-2020 7:30pm

Universities and colleges everywhere are going to face a really difficult value proposition.

All those potential fees for a better structured series of glorified youtube videos? A few guidelines and exams?

Yeah, big questions incoming sooner or later, fair or not.

Also, no, they should not be opening. Catch 22 and good luck

Beasty · 26-09-2020 8:44pm

Threads merged

Vital Transformation · 26-09-2020 9:02pm

"The Irish Universities Association has said the move is about trying to limit the cross-country movement of students, and avoiding the congregation of large groups on campus."

If this is the rationale behind the restrictions, how does moving things back two weeks change anything? I have a suspicion this is just to slowly ease in permanent restrictions in a fortnight. This would cause much annoyance with many students having already paid for accommodation.

I think Maynooths original approach was adequate, less than half of the usual classes on campus, a less crowded college. Ideally you would supplement this with allowing any student to stay at home and do everything online; allow others to make their own decisions and attend class if they wish.

Oranage2 · 27-09-2020 2:15pm

I don't see why the government just say that universities can't open, 2 weeks here 3 weeks there isn't going to help anyone.

Universities/colleges

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