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Universities/colleges

  • 18-04-2020 12:53pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭ Lundstram


    Have heard lot of other industries been taking to task about returning some money to customers and payment moratoriums. I paid all my college fees up front out of my own pocket (mature student with full-time job) and feel colleges need to consider returning some. We have online lectures now that are riddled with poor connections, inadequate notes and lecturers who simply aren't good with this kind of technology. They'e absolutely useless and don't come close to in-class lectures.

    We are now expected to do our important final exams remotely. In my particular college this involves writing it out as normal, scanning it then sending it to our lecturer. My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel. This will cause massive problems for students including myself.

    We've no access to college facilities whatsoever.

    Anyone other students feeling a little cheated?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,734 ✭✭✭ McDermotX


    bba809cc737676c3815f4fd83eef8c51.jpg

    Like all areas of life nowadays, it's all we can do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭ Lundstram


    You Adapt: I am trying hard to but I want some of my money back.

    You Overcome: That remains to be seen but I still want some money back.

    You Improvise: Irrelevant. I want my money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Lundstram wrote: »
    My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel

    Then they're doing the wrong major... and, it reflects a failure by the students themselves. I'm a finance major with accounting/auditing experience.

    Honestly, your complaint is rather childish. Your university fees are small compared to other countries, considering the importance of a qualification for many majors, especially your own. You're going to be forking out more money later for your extra certifications..

    The university is still providing a service, and your fees go towards the overall qualification. I suspect you're simply not doing enough work yourself and passing the blame on to the university. Accounting remains one of those majors where self-study can easily prepare you for exams, and the lecturers involvement isn't as necessary. If you're willing to put in the work.

    Nah. I wouldn't consider your complaint to be particularly reasonable. Perhaps if you were spending close to the amounts US students are required to pay, i might show some sympathy, but you're not. Not even close.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭ Lundstram


    klaz wrote: »
    Then they're doing the wrong major... and, it reflects a failure by the students themselves. I'm a finance major with accounting/auditing experience.

    Honestly, your complaint is rather childish. Your university fees are small compared to other countries, considering the importance of a qualification for many majors, especially your own. You're going to be forking out more money later for your extra certifications..

    The university is still providing a service, and your fees go towards the overall qualification. I suspect you're simply not doing enough work yourself and passing the blame on to the university. Accounting remains one of those majors where self-study can easily prepare you for exams, and the lecturers involvement isn't as necessary. If you're willing to put in the work.

    Nah. I wouldn't consider your complaint to be particularly reasonable. Perhaps if you were spending close to the amounts US students are required to pay, i might show some sympathy, but you're not. Not even close.
    I'm doing the wrong course because I'm not proficient with Excel? Strange comment. I couldn't care less what you are.

    It's not a university.

    This is not the USA.

    What a ridiculously pointless post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Lundstram wrote: »
    I'm doing the wrong course because I'm not proficient with Excel? Strange comment. I couldn't care less what you are.

    You spoke about students not knowing how to use excel... in an accounting course. I didn't direct my comment at you.

    As for "what" I am. I lecture business management. I also have a finance degree, and have worked previously as an auditor.

    Frankly, i'd say that your attitude is a greater problem than the fees.
    It's not a university.

    This is not the USA.

    What a ridiculously pointless post.

    Ahh great. You've seen the light about your post. Well done!

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭ Lundstram


    klaz wrote: »
    You spoke about students not knowing how to use excel... in an accounting course. I didn't direct my comment at you.

    As for "what" I am. I lecture business management. I also have a finance degree, and have worked previously as an auditor.

    Frankly, i'd say that your attitude is a greater problem than the fees.



    Ahh great. You've seen the light about your post. Well done!
    Would you expect a student of medicine to be able to use an Xray machine while in college? You see how stupid your comment is?

    Again, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU ARE OR DO. You aren't a student so my OP wasn't aimed at you.

    Go troll somewhere else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Would you expect a student of medicine to be able to use an Xray machine while in college? You see how stupid your comment is?

    I'd expect any student of business, finance or accounting to be able to use excel. It's generally a necessary tool for study and employment.

    As for stupidity, your reaction is quite enlightening. :rolleyes:
    Again, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU ARE OR DO. You aren't a student so my OP wasn't aimed at you.

    Go troll somewhere else.

    It's not trolling to disagree with you. If you wanted an echo chamber to rant and stroke your perceived grievances, then twitter might be more appropriate. On boards, you're going to find people who disagree and find your outrage childish.

    Just as your use of caps, and response is rather indicative of your maturity.

    Here's a hint. simply ignore my post. Then there won't be any cause for us to converse.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭ Mjolnir


    You're still recieveing your lectures, while not in a traditional sense, but in a way that they can facilitate during these unprecedented circumstances. So no you are not entitled to a refund be it full or partial, nor would you have grounds in seeking such.

    Also yea everyone in an accounting course, regardless of level should have a basic proficiency in excel. It's not difficult to learn go on youtube it'll take no time to pick up.

    Before ya have a go I'm a mature student too, in a university where my final exams are now replaced with essays, mcq's and take home exams.
    I'm a slow typer (partially to do with various hand injuries) so typing full on essays in a matter of hours is much harder for me than handwriting one. Guess what tough still have to do it. My degree also requires putting taught into the question identifying the issue, remedies and redress as well as possible issues so while theres a right answer there is varying degrees of right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭ Rufeo


    Or still closed due to the pandemic?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭ mikhail


    Any delay to the Leaving may affect the start time, but I suspect the universities will continue with online teaching anyway until there's a vaccine. If we're not in a lockdown period, staff and even postgrads might be allowed (though not encouraged) onto campus.

    Universities are a big melting pot - lots of people coming from all over and mingling in classrooms together. They're too high risk, and to relatively easily performed remotely, for it to make sense to fully reopen them until the pandemic is properly stomped out. They're not open in China yet, for all that most businesses are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Have heard lot of other industries been taking to task about returning some money to customers and payment moratoriums. I paid all my college fees up front out of my own pocket (mature student with full-time job) and feel colleges need to consider returning some. We have online lectures now that are riddled with poor connections, inadequate notes and lecturers who simply aren't good with this kind of technology. They'e absolutely useless and don't come close to in-class lectures.

    We are now expected to do our important final exams remotely. In my particular college this involves writing it out as normal, scanning it then sending it to our lecturer. My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel. This will cause massive problems for students including myself.

    We've no access to college facilities whatsoever.

    Anyone other students feeling a little cheated?


    If you are doing an accounting course and you don’t know how to use excel...........the mind boggles.

    Seriously? Should be an automatic fail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,886 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    Don't you pay a registration charge for college not a fee for the course, its how we pretend that college is free here.

    I'd echo what the others have said about Excel. If an accountant can't use it then they are in the wrong field as it's the most basic spread sheet program around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,500 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975


    Lundstram wrote: »
    You Adapt: I am trying hard to but I want some of my money back.

    You Overcome: That remains to be seen but I still want some money back.

    You Improvise: Irrelevant. I want my money.
    That's the spirit!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,722 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If you are doing an accounting course and you don’t know how to use excel...........the mind boggles.

    Seriously? Should be an automatic fail.

    Totally agree.

    You don't go to college to learn how to read and write, you're expected to know that beforehand.

    Using basic number manipulation software is the 21st century version of reading and writing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭ Away With The Fairies


    Are we going to see courses being done online or what is going to happen? Are they making plans for the return of students or what is happening there.

    It would be great if I can do an online course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭ mikhail


    There are contingency plans being drawn up, but they haven't even agreed a start date yet (at least one uni has suggested January 2021), and everything hinges on how government advice evolves over the summer. The current thinking seems to run to online lectures, allowing for small group tutorials and laboratory work in well spaced and ventilated environments. Like so much else right now, it's all up in the air.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭ ZX7R


    Are we going to see courses being done online or what is going to happen? Are they making plans for the return of students or what is happening there.

    It would be great if I can do an online course.

    Collages and universities in Ireland are going to want as many students back as possible,they stand to lose to much income otherwise it will be interesting to see there plans for September/October


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭ s1ippy


    I was accepted to two colleges for Masters courses starting in September and the approach from both of them is hugely different. I thought it was interesting. I won't be able to do them now because my circumstances have changed enormously, I'd imagine many many people are in the same position as I am.


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭ Mjolnir


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Collages and universities in Ireland are going to want as many students back as possible,they stand to lose to much income otherwise it will be interesting to see there plans for September/October

    They'll get the money regardless of if we return to campus or not. They still get the fees because we are still getting the education. Even if it turns out we're not on campus till the new year ( holy f#ck I hope aug/Sept I struggle to concentrate at home) they'll continue voice over and video lectures.

    Be more difficult on science/tech/engineering students who have mandatory lab hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭ gutenberg


    I'll be curious to see what happens in Ireland. I'm a lecturer at a big UK university and our current planning is for a mixture of online and in-person teaching in the autumn. Some year groups will be prioritised in who gets in-person teaching. It's going to be an unholy mess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,687 ✭✭✭ c.p.w.g.w


    I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

    My misses, has emailed her college looking for information about next year. She got back a very vague email and didn't tell her anything...her course last year before the shut down would typically have 75 in class and that would have lecture room pretty much full.

    I have heard some courses will be offering online lectures, others are going to try and limit class sizes to allow for social distancing...

    Does anyone know what is actually happening?

    Neighbours of my sister rent out a few houses in her estate to students...normally their houses are already booked up by April...they haven't got any calls for their houses(3 vacant properties)...apparently it's the same for other houses in the adjoining estate too...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭ YFlyer


    Classes online. Labs attendance per space, 20% of normal. No pairing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ granturismo


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

    ...

    One college has contingencies for a 100% return in September or a 50% occupancy mixed with online or a 40% - 10% occupancy mixed with online or provision of 100% online. It all depends on what the infection rate is between now and the proposed start of term. As one poster has already pointed out they are down millions of € already due to loss of accommodation, summer schools, etc.

    Rumours are that TCD and UCD will have 10-20 million € loss each before September.


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ newuser99999


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

    My misses, has emailed her college looking for information about next year. She got back a very vague email and didn't tell her anything...her course last year before the shut down would typically have 75 in class and that would have lecture room pretty much full.

    I have heard some courses will be offering online lectures, others are going to try and limit class sizes to allow for social distancing...

    Does anyone know what is actually happening?

    Neighbours of my sister rent out a few houses in her estate to students...normally their houses are already booked up by April...they haven't got any calls for their houses(3 vacant properties)...apparently it's the same for other houses in the adjoining estate too...

    Don’t think anyone knows what’s happening yet and depends on the college and the course too. I heard from a friend St Angela’s in Sligo told them they won’t be back on campus for at least the first 6 week. At the same time plenty of friends can’t find somewhere to live in Cork come September so it’s a mixed bag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,535 ✭✭✭✭ ACitizenErased


    Totally agree.

    You don't go to college to learn how to read and write, you're expected to know that beforehand.

    Using basic number manipulation software is the 21st century version of reading and writing.
    Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


    On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ mc25


    I'd say where the universities are really going to lose money is with the drop in international student numbers.

    A girl I knew doing the exact same course as me was paying triple the fees because she was non-EU


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,334 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage


    mc25 wrote: »
    A girl I knew doing the exact same course as me was paying triple the fees because she was non-EU


    Such students picked out their course and think it fair value, whereas the Irish students just whine about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ LessOutragePlz


    Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


    On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.

    This is true I did accounting modules every year of my course and I never once had to use excel but, it should be mandatory as it is the main software you use when you are working in an accounting job unless the company you work for has a different software that they use.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.

    It's not a requirement for accounting but it's a basic skill. It's like saying that not knowing powerpoint is fine for someone who does presentations. Excel provides a foundational introduction to database work which is helpful when you make the break into corporate accounting where they'll be using customized software. Knowing excel in some reasonable detail helps with the understanding of how TAS books or something similar operates. Besides, many smaller businesses still use excel in addition to something like TAS with the importing/exporting of files for different systems.

    Maybe University accounting has moved away from teaching such.. but it seems a foolish move. I know that Financial Management with Accounting modules still require some degree of Excel usage.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭ Lundstram


    Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


    On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.
    As it turned out, we were allowed take photos of our written exam and send them in pdf form, there was uproar when when they told us we could ony use Excel therefore they backed down. I have some experience with Excel but not enough to do a time pressured exam.

    Not a hope I'll be paying fees for this online crap and many of my class said the same.


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