Universities/colleges

Lundstram

Have heard lot of other industries been taking to task about returning some money to customers and payment moratoriums. I paid all my college fees up front out of my own pocket (mature student with full-time job) and feel colleges need to consider returning some. We have online lectures now that are riddled with poor connections, inadequate notes and lecturers who simply aren't good with this kind of technology. They'e absolutely useless and don't come close to in-class lectures.

We are now expected to do our important final exams remotely. In my particular college this involves writing it out as normal, scanning it then sending it to our lecturer. My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel. This will cause massive problems for students including myself.

We've no access to college facilities whatsoever.

Anyone other students feeling a little cheated?

McDermotX

Like all areas of life nowadays, it's all we can do.

Lundstram

You Adapt: I am trying hard to but I want some of my money back.

You Overcome: That remains to be seen but I still want some money back.

You Improvise: Irrelevant. I want my money.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel

Then they're doing the wrong major... and, it reflects a failure by the students themselves. I'm a finance major with accounting/auditing experience.

Honestly, your complaint is rather childish. Your university fees are small compared to other countries, considering the importance of a qualification for many majors, especially your own. You're going to be forking out more money later for your extra certifications..

The university is still providing a service, and your fees go towards the overall qualification. I suspect you're simply not doing enough work yourself and passing the blame on to the university. Accounting remains one of those majors where self-study can easily prepare you for exams, and the lecturers involvement isn't as necessary. If you're willing to put in the work.

Nah. I wouldn't consider your complaint to be particularly reasonable. Perhaps if you were spending close to the amounts US students are required to pay, i might show some sympathy, but you're not. Not even close.

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

Then they're doing the wrong major... and, it reflects a failure by the students themselves. I'm a finance major with accounting/auditing experience.

Honestly, your complaint is rather childish. Your university fees are small compared to other countries, considering the importance of a qualification for many majors, especially your own. You're going to be forking out more money later for your extra certifications..

The university is still providing a service, and your fees go towards the overall qualification. I suspect you're simply not doing enough work yourself and passing the blame on to the university. Accounting remains one of those majors where self-study can easily prepare you for exams, and the lecturers involvement isn't as necessary. If you're willing to put in the work.

Nah. I wouldn't consider your complaint to be particularly reasonable. Perhaps if you were spending close to the amounts US students are required to pay, i might show some sympathy, but you're not. Not even close.

I'm doing the wrong course because I'm not proficient with Excel? Strange comment. I couldn't care less what you are.

It's not a university.

This is not the USA.

What a ridiculously pointless post.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

I'm doing the wrong course because I'm not proficient with Excel? Strange comment. I couldn't care less what you are.

You spoke about students not knowing how to use excel... in an accounting course. I didn't direct my comment at you.

As for "what" I am. I lecture business management. I also have a finance degree, and have worked previously as an auditor.

Frankly, i'd say that your attitude is a greater problem than the fees.

It's not a university.

This is not the USA.

What a ridiculously pointless post.

Ahh great. You've seen the light about your post. Well done!

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

You spoke about students not knowing how to use excel... in an accounting course. I didn't direct my comment at you.

As for "what" I am. I lecture business management. I also have a finance degree, and have worked previously as an auditor.

Frankly, i'd say that your attitude is a greater problem than the fees.



Ahh great. You've seen the light about your post. Well done!

Would you expect a student of medicine to be able to use an Xray machine while in college? You see how stupid your comment is?

Again, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU ARE OR DO. You aren't a student so my OP wasn't aimed at you.

Go troll somewhere else.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Would you expect a student of medicine to be able to use an Xray machine while in college? You see how stupid your comment is?

I'd expect any student of business, finance or accounting to be able to use excel. It's generally a necessary tool for study and employment.

As for stupidity, your reaction is quite enlightening. :rolleyes:

Again, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU ARE OR DO. You aren't a student so my OP wasn't aimed at you.

Go troll somewhere else.

It's not trolling to disagree with you. If you wanted an echo chamber to rant and stroke your perceived grievances, then twitter might be more appropriate. On boards, you're going to find people who disagree and find your outrage childish.

Just as your use of caps, and response is rather indicative of your maturity.

Here's a hint. simply ignore my post. Then there won't be any cause for us to converse.

Mjolnir

You're still recieveing your lectures, while not in a traditional sense, but in a way that they can facilitate during these unprecedented circumstances. So no you are not entitled to a refund be it full or partial, nor would you have grounds in seeking such.

Also yea everyone in an accounting course, regardless of level should have a basic proficiency in excel. It's not difficult to learn go on youtube it'll take no time to pick up.

Before ya have a go I'm a mature student too, in a university where my final exams are now replaced with essays, mcq's and take home exams.
I'm a slow typer (partially to do with various hand injuries) so typing full on essays in a matter of hours is much harder for me than handwriting one. Guess what tough still have to do it. My degree also requires putting taught into the question identifying the issue, remedies and redress as well as possible issues so while theres a right answer there is varying degrees of right.

Rufeo

Or still closed due to the pandemic?

mikhail

Any delay to the Leaving may affect the start time, but I suspect the universities will continue with online teaching anyway until there's a vaccine. If we're not in a lockdown period, staff and even postgrads might be allowed (though not encouraged) onto campus.

Universities are a big melting pot - lots of people coming from all over and mingling in classrooms together. They're too high risk, and to relatively easily performed remotely, for it to make sense to fully reopen them until the pandemic is properly stomped out. They're not open in China yet, for all that most businesses are.

blanch152

Lundstram wrote: »

Have heard lot of other industries been taking to task about returning some money to customers and payment moratoriums. I paid all my college fees up front out of my own pocket (mature student with full-time job) and feel colleges need to consider returning some. We have online lectures now that are riddled with poor connections, inadequate notes and lecturers who simply aren't good with this kind of technology. They'e absolutely useless and don't come close to in-class lectures.

We are now expected to do our important final exams remotely. In my particular college this involves writing it out as normal, scanning it then sending it to our lecturer. My course is accounting and not many people are proficient enough to use Excel. This will cause massive problems for students including myself.

We've no access to college facilities whatsoever.

Anyone other students feeling a little cheated?

If you are doing an accounting course and you don’t know how to use excel...........the mind boggles.

Seriously? Should be an automatic fail.

Del2005

Don't you pay a registration charge for college not a fee for the course, its how we pretend that college is free here.

I'd echo what the others have said about Excel. If an accountant can't use it then they are in the wrong field as it's the most basic spread sheet program around.

padd b1975

Lundstram wrote: »

You Adapt: I am trying hard to but I want some of my money back.

You Overcome: That remains to be seen but I still want some money back.

You Improvise: Irrelevant. I want my money.

That's the spirit!

Mrs OBumble

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are doing an accounting course and you don’t know how to use excel...........the mind boggles.

Seriously? Should be an automatic fail.

Totally agree.

You don't go to college to learn how to read and write, you're expected to know that beforehand.

Using basic number manipulation software is the 21st century version of reading and writing.

Away With The Fairies

Are we going to see courses being done online or what is going to happen? Are they making plans for the return of students or what is happening there.

It would be great if I can do an online course.

mikhail

There are contingency plans being drawn up, but they haven't even agreed a start date yet (at least one uni has suggested January 2021), and everything hinges on how government advice evolves over the summer. The current thinking seems to run to online lectures, allowing for small group tutorials and laboratory work in well spaced and ventilated environments. Like so much else right now, it's all up in the air.

ZX7R

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Are we going to see courses being done online or what is going to happen? Are they making plans for the return of students or what is happening there.

It would be great if I can do an online course.

Collages and universities in Ireland are going to want as many students back as possible,they stand to lose to much income otherwise it will be interesting to see there plans for September/October

s1ippy

I was accepted to two colleges for Masters courses starting in September and the approach from both of them is hugely different. I thought it was interesting. I won't be able to do them now because my circumstances have changed enormously, I'd imagine many many people are in the same position as I am.

Mjolnir

ZX7R wrote: »

Collages and universities in Ireland are going to want as many students back as possible,they stand to lose to much income otherwise it will be interesting to see there plans for September/October

They'll get the money regardless of if we return to campus or not. They still get the fees because we are still getting the education. Even if it turns out we're not on campus till the new year ( holy f#ck I hope aug/Sept I struggle to concentrate at home) they'll continue voice over and video lectures.

Be more difficult on science/tech/engineering students who have mandatory lab hours.

gutenberg

I'll be curious to see what happens in Ireland. I'm a lecturer at a big UK university and our current planning is for a mixture of online and in-person teaching in the autumn. Some year groups will be prioritised in who gets in-person teaching. It's going to be an unholy mess.

c.p.w.g.w

I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

My misses, has emailed her college looking for information about next year. She got back a very vague email and didn't tell her anything...her course last year before the shut down would typically have 75 in class and that would have lecture room pretty much full.

I have heard some courses will be offering online lectures, others are going to try and limit class sizes to allow for social distancing...

Does anyone know what is actually happening?

Neighbours of my sister rent out a few houses in her estate to students...normally their houses are already booked up by April...they haven't got any calls for their houses(3 vacant properties)...apparently it's the same for other houses in the adjoining estate too...

YFlyer

Classes online. Labs attendance per space, 20% of normal. No pairing.

granturismo

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

...

One college has contingencies for a 100% return in September or a 50% occupancy mixed with online or a 40% - 10% occupancy mixed with online or provision of 100% online. It all depends on what the infection rate is between now and the proposed start of term. As one poster has already pointed out they are down millions of € already due to loss of accommodation, summer schools, etc.

Rumours are that TCD and UCD will have 10-20 million € loss each before September.

newuser99999

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there is any information around Universities for the upcoming academic year.

My misses, has emailed her college looking for information about next year. She got back a very vague email and didn't tell her anything...her course last year before the shut down would typically have 75 in class and that would have lecture room pretty much full.

I have heard some courses will be offering online lectures, others are going to try and limit class sizes to allow for social distancing...

Does anyone know what is actually happening?

Neighbours of my sister rent out a few houses in her estate to students...normally their houses are already booked up by April...they haven't got any calls for their houses(3 vacant properties)...apparently it's the same for other houses in the adjoining estate too...

Don’t think anyone knows what’s happening yet and depends on the college and the course too. I heard from a friend St Angela’s in Sligo told them they won’t be back on campus for at least the first 6 week. At the same time plenty of friends can’t find somewhere to live in Cork come September so it’s a mixed bag.

ACitizenErased

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Totally agree.

You don't go to college to learn how to read and write, you're expected to know that beforehand.

Using basic number manipulation software is the 21st century version of reading and writing.

Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.

mc25

I'd say where the universities are really going to lose money is with the drop in international student numbers.

A girl I knew doing the exact same course as me was paying triple the fees because she was non-EU

Charles Babbage

mc25 wrote: »

A girl I knew doing the exact same course as me was paying triple the fees because she was non-EU

Such students picked out their course and think it fair value, whereas the Irish students just whine about it.

LessOutragePlz

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.

This is true I did accounting modules every year of my course and I never once had to use excel but, it should be mandatory as it is the main software you use when you are working in an accounting job unless the company you work for has a different software that they use.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.

It's not a requirement for accounting but it's a basic skill. It's like saying that not knowing powerpoint is fine for someone who does presentations. Excel provides a foundational introduction to database work which is helpful when you make the break into corporate accounting where they'll be using customized software. Knowing excel in some reasonable detail helps with the understanding of how TAS books or something similar operates. Besides, many smaller businesses still use excel in addition to something like TAS with the importing/exporting of files for different systems.

Maybe University accounting has moved away from teaching such.. but it seems a foolish move. I know that Financial Management with Accounting modules still require some degree of Excel usage.

Lundstram

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Off topic but this is a ridiculous comment. If you think University Level accounting requires Excel knowledge you're truly mistaken. The majority of university accountancy is written and requires little to no excel knowledge.


On topic, I can't see any reasonable way for colleges to return. There's also no way the €3000 fee should apply to online learning. The standard of work/lectures provided since college ended has been hideous.

As it turned out, we were allowed take photos of our written exam and send them in pdf form, there was uproar when when they told us we could ony use Excel therefore they backed down. I have some experience with Excel but not enough to do a time pressured exam.

Not a hope I'll be paying fees for this online crap and many of my class said the same.

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not a requirement for accounting but it's a basic skill. It's like saying that not knowing powerpoint is fine for someone who does presentations. Excel provides a foundational introduction to database work which is helpful when you make the break into corporate accounting where they'll be using customized software. Knowing excel in some reasonable detail helps with the understanding of how TAS books or something similar operates. Besides, many smaller businesses still use excel in addition to something like TAS with the importing/exporting of files for different systems.

Maybe University accounting has moved away from teaching such.. but it seems a foolish move. I know that Financial Management with Accounting modules still require some degree of Excel usage.

Reading and writing are basic skills.

Profficiency in Excel is not. :rolleyes:

Edit: Wrong again, I did Financial Managment for Accountants this year and there was no Excel involved. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Reading and writing are basic skills.

Profficiency in Excel is not. :rolleyes:

Edit: Wrong again, I did Financial Managment for Accountants this year and there was no Excel involved. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I have a Financial Management degree with Accounting. I now lecture Business management, and speak to my colleagues who teach Accounting/CFA/etc.

Different universities have different focuses. You should know better than to assign a blanket statement to all university courses and how they operate. :rolleyes:

ACitizenErased

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not a requirement for accounting but it's a basic skill. It's like saying that not knowing powerpoint is fine for someone who does presentations. Excel provides a foundational introduction to database work which is helpful when you make the break into corporate accounting where they'll be using customized software. Knowing excel in some reasonable detail helps with the understanding of how TAS books or something similar operates. Besides, many smaller businesses still use excel in addition to something like TAS with the importing/exporting of files for different systems.

Maybe University accounting has moved away from teaching such.. but it seems a foolish move. I know that Financial Management with Accounting modules still require some degree of Excel usage.

I've done management and financial accounting modules and never once used Excel. Universities simply don't teach that way.

Lundstram

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a Financial Management degree with Accounting. I now lecture Business management, and speak to my colleagues who teach Accounting/CFA/etc.

Different universities have different focuses. You should know better than to assign a blanket statement to all university courses and how they operate. :rolleyes:

Again, I couldn't care less what you have, you're still wrong.

To say all universites use Excel for FMA is just wrong. You shouldn't assign a blanket statement to all university courses and how they operate.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Again, I couldn't care less what you have, you're still wrong.

Yup. I got that.

To say all universites use Excel for FMA is just wrong. You shouldn't assign a blanket statement to all university courses and how they operate.

Which I didn't say. Obviously. :rolleyes:

We disagree. There's a shocker.

mikhail

To answer c.p.w.g.w's question above, UCD have only decided their term dates today. The universities are still figuring out the details and biding their time for developments, but it's likely that lectures at least will be online. Labs and smaller group stuff may be in meatspace, but I expect the timetabling people are losing sleep figuring out how to do that.

mc25 wrote: »

I'd say where the universities are really going to lose money is with the drop in international student numbers.

A girl I knew doing the exact same course as me was paying triple the fees because she was non-EU

Yep. Irish fees are fixed because the government pays them. That's why the "registration fee" is about 10 x higher than 20 years ago, which is to say that 'free fees' are only about 75% off these days, even with children from the third world subsidising our education system.

That's also the biggest part of why Irish universities chase foreign students like a junkie chases a high - they're the only way to grow teaching income.

Whether this is a suitable, sensible, or moral way to run the entire 3rd level education system is debatable, but it's the consequences of governments choosing not to restore post-crash budget cuts.

gauchesnell

Yeah I work in a university and this is happening now - planning and going through the government rules.

Based on current information lectures for the new academic year will be online and so will exams. Some exceptions will be students who have to be on campus but those will be staggered.

Recruitment on international students is an issue - many dont want to travel/many cant. For many the issue is travelling to avail of an online class doesnt make sense.

Not sure if incoming LC students realise yet that their programmes will probably be online comes September

LuasSimon

Talking to a Lecturer friend and listening to another from UCC on the radio will it be the case many Lectures and Tutorial will be done remotely into the future and students may only be required on campus 1-2 days a week or less for exams and practical stuff like lab work .

This will make college far more affordable for those not living near colleges, could students from Monaghan,Wexford,Tipperary etc come to UCD one or two days a week and do the rest remotely as it appears covid has already shown this can be done. This will free up many houses and apartments in areas like Clonskeagh, etc for the housing market . Replicate this across other Dublin colleges, Cork, Galway etc can only be good news for students and housing markets near colleges.

DSN

Has it shown yet it can be done effectively though? Seems quick off the mark to be planning this. maybe for large lectures but tutorials? How do the students themselves feel about it? Be interested to hear from them.

newuser99999

LuasSimon wrote: »

Talking to a Lecturer friend and listening to another from UCC on the radio will it be the case many Lectures and Tutorial will be done remotely into the future and students may only be required on campus 1-2 days a week or less for exams and practical stuff like lab work .

This will make college far more affordable for those not living near colleges, could students from Monaghan,Wexford,Tipperary etc come to UCD one or two days a week and do the rest remotely as it appears covid has already shown this can be done. This will free up many houses and apartments in areas like Clonskeagh, etc for the housing market . Replicate this across other Dublin colleges, Cork, Galway etc can only be good news for students and housing markets near colleges.

Where do you suggest students to stay when they are up for 2 days at a time?

Jurgen Klopp

It would have its benefits and drawbacks

Places that relied on students for income could see substantial drop in income, some of the houses might be taken over by workers but I'm just thinking of the crammed student accommodation apartments

Government probably be licking their lips at it as a reason to cut the grant amounts

Would suit some the current setup doesn't and would put out those it currently does. For instance the types who got a grant and a little bit of a job might now find it harder as they might be stuck just driving there and back

However some might use it as an opportunity to try and get a more fulltime time job and work around labs , assuming the economy picks up

Id expect college fees and expenses to drop substantially but won't hold my breath. The only benefit is it might kick start easier and cheaper access to proper third level qualifications from smaller or further away based institutions who were trying to offer courses online and give some competition

LuasSimon

Could easily stay in a B and B one night a week or a hotel even would be cheaper than the cost of renting presently. If it was only one day they could travel up and down for one day . It would certainly free up the areas around college for local population and save a lot of cost on the parents if students .

newuser99999

LuasSimon wrote: »

Could easily stay in a B and B one night a week or a hotel even would be cheaper than the cost of renting presently. If it was only one day they could travel up and down for one day . It would certainly free up the areas around college for local population and save a lot of cost on the parents if students .

Yeah it would really make sense for people from Kerry going to college in Dublin to travel up and down in the same day. It would work for a very small minority.

LuasSimon

newuser99999 wrote: »

Yeah it would really make sense for people from Kerry going to college in Dublin to travel up and down in the same day. It would work for a very small minority.

Well maybe those from laois or wexford or Louth could manage it , would reduce the mad panic for anyone trying to rent a room near UCD etc

Lundstram

I'd sooner defer a year if this online stuff takes off. It works for some but not all. Don't care what anyone says, you cannot replicate in class lectures online, not even close to it.

Benimar

I’m working in the area and I’d be surprised if many Universities/IoTs aren’t online until at least Christmas.

Maybe not all, but the vast majority will be mainly online (tutorials will be on site etc)

newuser99999

Benimar wrote: »

I’m working in the area and I’d be surprised if many Universities/IoTs aren’t online until at least Christmas.

Maybe not all, but the vast majority will be mainly online (tutorials will be on site etc)

Hopefully they reduce their fees so.

challengemaster

Lundstram wrote: »

I'd sooner defer a year if this online stuff takes off. It works for some but not all. Don't care what anyone says, you cannot replicate in class lectures online, not even close to it.

I'd disagree considering a fair proportion of people wouldn't even bother attending lectures and just go on the uploaded lecture notes. Getting a video lecture alongside those notes is even better than what's been on offer previously.

Each to their own though.

newuser99999 wrote: »

Hopefully they reduce their fees so.

What fees?

newuser99999

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd disagree considering a fair proportion of people wouldn't even bother attending lectures and just go on the uploaded lecture notes. Getting a video lecture alongside those notes is even better than what's been on offer previously.

Each to their own though.



What fees?

The student contribution fee ?

Geuze

newuser99999 wrote: »

Hopefully they reduce their fees so.

The 3,000 student undergrad fee won't be reduced.