The West Wing Spoilers

Agent Smith · 20-06-2011 10:48pm

the west wing wrote: »

The West Wing?? I'm pretty indifferent towards it

I Watched at the pleasure of President Bartlet...

Ellian · 20-06-2011 10:55pm

WesternNight wrote: »

Toby is my favourite character

Mine to although

I was spitting nails at what they did with his character. It was like the writers had no idea who Toby Ziegler was - even the crappy attempt to justify it with the sub plot about the brother didn't sell it for me. Toby would never in a million years have done what he did. I read somewhere that Richard Schiff had to tell himself that Toby was taking the fall for someone else.

WesternNight · 20-06-2011 11:26pm

Ellian wrote: »

Mine to although
I was spitting nails at what they did with his character. It was like the writers had no idea who Toby Ziegler was - even the crappy attempt to justify it with the sub plot about the brother didn't sell it for me. Toby would never in a million years have done what he did. I read somewhere that Richard Schiff had to tell himself that Toby was taking the fall for someone else.

Absolutely. Which was another reason I could have finished watching before it actually ended.

Plus,

I also had an issue with the way Leo was portrayed in Season 7. They turned him into a bumbling liability, and when John Spencer died, I felt it didn't have the impact it should have had when Leo died.

G_R · 21-06-2011 12:28am

The West Wing, is in my opinion, the best show ever made for television.

You get to know the characters so, so well and when

they leave or die, weather in the story or in real life

I was actually upset. That is the kind of effect the series had on me.

After reading this thread and watching those clips, I'm going to start watching it again from scratch. This will be my third time. The Season two finale is nothing short of amazing. I don't know how anyone who was watching it on TV in America was able to wait the 7 or 8 months until the next season was out. The series mastered the art of suspense.

As others have said, seasons 1-4 are without a doubt the best. But 5-7 are still very watchable. The whole series is ridiculously addictive. I remember I was in TY when I first started watching the Series and I spent my entire Easter break watching it. I resented having to go to work.

Make sure you watch it and stick with it, even if you dont like the first couple of episodes. What follows is nothing short of amazing.

VinLieger · 21-06-2011 12:53am

amacachi wrote: »

3 episodes in and I have to admit I'm not very impressed so far. Way top predictable and cheesy for my liking.

I was the same, thought it was silly, but then somewhere around episode 5-6 it hit me that iI was watching something truly unique and brilliant.

There is really only one problem i have with the series and that is that i can never watch it for the first time again but that wont stop me from watching it over and over start to finish or simply watching the season 2 finale due to its shear epicness.
I dont currently own the boxset but due to a certain crackdown of a couple of streaming sites in the past few weeks im deffinitely gonna buy it soon.

Biggins · 21-06-2011 1:05am

VinLieger wrote: »

I was the same, thought it was silly, but then somewhere around episode 5-6 it hit me that iI was watching something truly unique and brilliant..

Couldn't agree more.
You have to keep with it till some complexities become clearer and characters have had a chance to show their full range of quirks and sides to them.
Any new viewers out there just starting to watch it? Trust me, its worth it.
(Try looking up the masses of awards the show got over the years!)

VinLieger wrote: »

...There is really only one problem i have with the series and that is that i can never watch it for the first time again ...

Same here.
The power of surprise and awe sometimes is always best the first time around.
That said, on the second or third viewing I caught some other stuff I missed the first time (too busy enjoying it and laughing at times (one character in fishing gear in their office!) LOL) - so it was still great and I appreciated it even more so.

VinLieger wrote: »

...that wont stop me from watching it over and over start to finish or simply watching the season 2 finale due to its shear epicness.

Same here.
Jeasus, I couldn't get disk one of season three in the drive quick enough!

amacachi · 21-06-2011 1:18am

I just couldn't believe how silly episodes 2 and 3 of the first season are though.
Episode 2,

yer man who gets shot down, the only way they could've made that more obvious would be to mention that he was 2 days away from retirement.

Episode 3,

the "these bullets are called cop-killers so we'll ban them" thing.

Ugh.

JonathanAnon · 21-06-2011 1:25am

it's a very good series, but it has certain persistant irritants that really bugged me.. Those scenes where the staff walk through the White House with needlessly rapid dialogue are more about the scriptwriters trying to be clever rather than contributing to the show.. really annoying.. Also couldnt stand that Bradley Whitford guy.. and they way that every week one or more of the characters was saying the phrase "oh x-character can be here, he has a THING" and this would be repeated throughout that episode, and we would be expected to find this hilarious..

Mr E · 21-06-2011 7:18am

I haven't read any spoilers or series synopses, but I'm friggin' DYING to see what this Two Cathedrals episode is all about (and why its so highly rated).

No spoilers. I'll get there.

Beruthiel · 21-06-2011 8:20am

A friend gave me all the seasons, I decided to watch the first one on a Friday evening. That was my weekend gone. Just couldn't stop watching, 2.5 days gone.
I'm waiting for the memory of it to fade just so I can watch it again!

Biggins · 21-06-2011 8:32am

Beruthiel wrote: »

A friend gave me all the seasons, I decided to watch the first one on a Friday evening. That was my weekend gone. Just couldn't stop watching, 2.5 days gone.
I'm waiting for the memory of it to fade just so I can watch it again!

LOL Been there too so many times! :pac:
I know what you mean.

Ellian · 21-06-2011 9:00am

Just personal opinion but there was a special episode they did after 9-11 - it was thrown together in haste and is out of the timeline sequence. It's truly, truly terrible, bordering on offensive. I think it is at the start of Season 3, but I would beg you to skip over it. You are not missing a thing.

Otacon · 21-06-2011 9:05am

Ellian wrote: »

Just personal opinion but there was a special episode they did after 9-11 - it was thrown together in haste and is out of the timeline sequence. It's truly, truly terrible, bordering on offensive. I think it is at the start of Season 3, but I would beg you to skip over it. You are not missing a thing.

'Isaac and Ishmael'? What was terrible about it?

cjmcork · 21-06-2011 9:11am

OP, if you don't LOVE it by the time Celestial Navigation is on, I'll eat someone's hat, you'll never hear 'root canal' the same way again! and what about that

secret plan to fight inflation!!!!

Ellian · 21-06-2011 9:12am

Otacon wrote: »

'Isaac and Ishmael'? What was terrible about it?

Erm. Things like Leo saying to the Muslim guy "that's just the price you pay.." A price that presumably an Italian American or Irish American does not have to pay. Mrs. Bartlet saying that the tension in the Middle East goes back to the Isaac and Ishmael of the title. Sam Seaborn stating that terrorism has never achieved anything - not exactly an accurate statement. "Keep accepting more than one idea???". It was a smug, partronising civics lesson, given from a point of view of ignorance and IMO besmirched the rep of an otherwise fine TV show

Biggins · 21-06-2011 10:27am

Ellian wrote: »

Just personal opinion but there was a special episode they did after 9-11 - it was thrown together in haste and is out of the timeline sequence. It's truly, truly terrible, bordering on offensive. I think it is at the start of Season 3, but I would beg you to skip over it. You are not missing a thing.

Ellian wrote: »

Erm. Things like Leo saying to the Muslim guy "that's just the price you pay.." A price that presumably an Italian American or Irish American does not have to pay. Mrs. Bartlet saying that the tension in the Middle East goes back to the Isaac and Ishmael of the title. Sam Seaborn stating that terrorism has never achieved anything - not exactly an accurate statement. "Keep accepting more than one idea???". It was a smug, partronising civics lesson, given from a point of view of ignorance and IMO besmirched the rep of an otherwise fine TV show

Its was an indication and record of the time of that period felt by a certain number of people.
We might not agree with some of the ideas but it still stands as views and attitudes held by others elsewhere.
I have to disagree though as well in that I WOULD watch it. It was an eye opener as to how with the use of slightest of slights, we often allow sub-consiously ourselves to fall into not good patterns of behaviour and attitudes towards others we normally associate with or fall across in life.

Ellian · 21-06-2011 10:35am

it occured to me after I had written the above that you should never tell someone not to read or watch something - because you just come accross as patronising. But I believe that if you do watch it, it will damage to some extent your enjoyment of some of the characters in future (especially Leo for me)

While I can accept that there are many different responses to 9-11, and one that was written so close to the event might be more emotional, but I still think it obfuscated and was deliberately naieve, in that it did nothing to examine or discuss ides

like US foreign policy, blowback etc

Just my opinion though.

Biggins · 21-06-2011 10:55am

Ellian wrote: »

...While I can accept that there are many different responses to 9-11, and one that was written so close to the event might be more emotional, but I still think it obfuscated and was deliberately naieve, in that it did nothing to examine or discuss ides
like US foreign policy, blowback etc
Just my opinion though.

Given the program had only less than an hour to express the feelings of the time, of course not everything could be examinied in detail. Only some matter could be reference pointed/raised and left it up for the viewer towards further discussion and thought.
It was what it was, for the time that it went out and that should be taken into account in later times.
As such it stands as a record of feelings of the past.

The use of Leo I assume was deliberate.
(They had to use someone in all honestly)
Leo was of the old guard type/thinking era. He was a person that was grappling with the ways of a new world where fighting a war to him previously involved trenches, military vehicles and a clearer defined enemy.
His character use had many levels to it and also helped to possibly highlight/raise other complexities of the situation at the time.

Ellian · 21-06-2011 11:50am

Biggins wrote: »

His character use had many levels to it and also helped to possibly highlight/raise other complexities of the situation at the time.

I actually think it did exactly the opposite. As did the whole episode.

For example to even think of explaining away the complexities of Middle East tensions and why US involvement in the region may result in terrorist attachks with the answer "Isaac and Ishmael" - i.e. that it is a conflict that goes all the way back to Abraham and the patricarchs and has nothing at all to do with anything that happened in the region post 1919 was extremely lazy at best and deliberately obfuscating at worst.

At the end of the day it's just a hastily written episode for a TV show, so not big deal, I am merely observing that I thought it was badly written and that it took a small amount of the lustre away from previously extremely enjoyable characters. I did keep watching though - for another 5 seasons.

Biggins · 21-06-2011 12:03pm

Ellian wrote: »

I actually think it did exactly the opposite. As did the whole episode.
For example to even think of explaining away the complexities of Middle East tensions and why US involvement in the region may result in terrorist attacks with the answer "Isaac and Ishmael" - i.e. that it is a conflict that goes all the way back to Abraham and the patricarchs and has nothing at all to do with anything that happened in the region post 1919 was extremely lazy at best and deliberately obfuscating at worst.
At the end of the day it's just a hastily written episode for a TV show, so not big deal, I am merely observing that I thought it was badly written and that it took a small amount of the lustre away from previously extremely enjoyable characters. I did keep watching though - for another 5 seasons.

Well its just one episode and even then, if the we differ over the matter, the acting was still great and was based around views of the time. I though it was good written at least from the point that it helped explain why some have the Americanised views, they might have.
The main point of the episode I think was to get across that people that supposedly look the same or come from supposedly the same cultural background, are not actually the same and/or have the same views as those that would do wrong (what we consider to be wrong) at times - and that all should not be held accountable or responsible for the actions of a few that have gone astray.
(...But thats a whole big discussion in itself)

Glad to see you stuck with it too the end. It was a hell of a ride.
I'm glad that it ended when it did - though I miss it.
I would have hate to have seen it fizzle out in a long lingering death.

LightningBolt · 21-06-2011 12:22pm

OP, watch and enjoy. I'm currently half way through season 5. I started watching in April! Got to love paid time off work. It's very addictive so limit yourself to 2 episodes a night max. That way you'll enjoy it more although I must confess that I now watch the last two episodes of the season along with the first two

Agree with everyone here, seasons one to four are superb. There is a noticable difference in season five however although I'm told it picks up again.

Favourite characters:

Martin Sheen
Bradley Whitford
Rob Lowe
Mary Louise Parker

VinLieger · 21-06-2011 2:58pm

Feck it theres no good tv going on atm worth watching, im starting again

Pepe LeFrits · 21-06-2011 8:31pm

My favourite TV show ever.

Unlike others I love seasons 6 and 7 - they can be a bit patchy but some of the campaign trail episodes are just brilliant.

cjmcork · 21-06-2011 10:31pm

Dagnamit - I'm going to have to re-watch it now all over again (with all this talk of it) - I'm trying to find something new to watch, but at the moment, I'm not even finding House as good.............in the words of Mr. President........'What's next?'............

(throws jacket on in awkward way and leaves........)

Ellian · 21-06-2011 10:35pm

Love the way Bartlet puts on a jacket - someone told me once that Sheen has an a shoulder injury and can't raise his arm above a certain point - hence the weird but strangely compelling jacket move

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 10:39pm

Issac and Ishmael is a weird, weird episode. It's certainly a bit iffy compared to the rest of the series, but I also admire their intention to do something different with a very short amount of time. The fact that they focused on Islamophobia so soon after the attacks is definitely an interesting thing to pick up on. It is pretty naff, but hey I've seen worse 'very special episodes' (My So Called Life, I'm looking at you!). Make sure to watch it after the proper two part season opening of three though - it's more than a little jarring otherwise. TBH, my least favourite part was at the start where all the characters address the camera directly to talk about charity and season three 'proper', and Donna just goes 'And I get a boyfriend'. Sums up her character pretty well :pac:

magic roundabou · 21-06-2011 10:41pm

I have to join the people who love this program -I have the box set and am on my 4th run through and while I do fast forward or sxip bits I still love it and all I can say about two catharls is WOW still makes me cry each and every time

cjmcork · 21-06-2011 10:44pm

Ellian wrote: »

Love the way Bartlet puts on a jacket - someone told me once that Sheen has an a shoulder injury and can't raise his arm above a certain point - hence the weird but strangely compelling jacket move

iirc when he was born his shoulder was damaged and the arm ended up limited lateral movement so it's the only way he can put it on.........table quiz question there for ya!

Biggins · 21-06-2011 10:46pm

magic roundabou wrote: »

...I still love it and all I can say about two catharls is WOW still makes me cry each and every time

...Having viewed the lead up to it, being able to understand its full endemicity, it hits you right in the heart each time.
Simply powerful stuff. You couldn't get better writing or acting. Every time I hear that Brothers In Arms tune now on the radio, thats what the music reminds me of.
I'm getting even dafter and more sentimental in me old age!

cjmcork · 21-06-2011 10:47pm

there's actually only 1 episode I don't watch (though I do forward through most of Mandy's scenes....), but I don't generally watch The Long Goodbye

re CJ's father

- just don't really see the point of it, I know it develops the character more.............. buuuuutttttttttttttt.........

The West Wing *Spoilers*

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The West Wing Spoilers