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Is this technically assault? No??

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13

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sallyanne12 wrote: »
    Well I certainly would never have considered it rape. But I know i could be wrong. When I think of rape I don't picture a couple in bed. I know they say rape is legally "sleeping with someone when they are sleeping" but it doesn't mention that person being your spouse... perhaps it isn't rape as such in the context of spouses. Also if she's lying there so afraid of him to say no, what the hell is she doing living with him and married to him?
    On the other hand, after reading through some posts, I agree it could be upsetting waking up to it without knowing, especially if you had no choice with regards contraception. That would be more serious, like if he wasn't using any as could result in an unwanted baby... I can see both sides but I just don't think it's in the same line as a man grabbing a random woman off the street and forcefully having sex with her...

    Are you like 13?
    Jesus Christ I can't believe anyone thinks like this


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    actually it doesn't seem that clear. me and my wife may have raped or sexually assaulted each other hundreds of times according to the law.

    let's see some actual cases as thin as this that were prosecuted and convicted please.

    Really?
    Do you have sex with your wife when she is asleep? Not expecting her to wake up or participate?
    I doubt very much you or your wife have raped or sexually assaulted each other.

    In this case, he had sex with his wife, whom he thought was asleep. He didn't know or was reckless to whether she consented or not.
    He then apologised to her afterwards.
    Why are you trying to defend his behavior?


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    #64
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    sallyanne12 wrote: »
    I wouldn't call a husband sleeping with his wife rape..

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sligo-man-49-jailed-for-six-years-for-raping-wife-1.770026?mode=amp


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    #65
    Gonad
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Gonad


    Your Local TD wrote: »
    Maybe it is rape but sexsomnia is also real. I once woke up to find myself fingering my sleeping gf. It was not something I had control over.

    Sorry this made me laugh ...


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    #66
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Really?
    Do you have sex with your wife when she is asleep? Not expecting her to wake up or participate?
    I doubt very much you or your wife have raped or sexually assaulted each other.

    In this case, he had sex with his wife, whom he thought was asleep. He didn't know or was reckless to whether she consented or not.
    He then apologised to her afterwards.
    Why are you trying to defend his behavior?

    because i don't think it's a big deal between a married couple.

    the real issue here is what was going on in the relationship before this and I'd say hitting her and cheating on her are worse crimes. she can just leave him if she wants but she accepted him back already after hitting her. maybe it suits her financially to stay with him - can't think of any other reason why she is still there.


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    because i don't think it's a big deal between a married couple.

    You don't think a man raping his wife is a big deal?
    Jesus Christ


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    #68
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    because i don't think it's a big deal between a married couple.

    the real issue here is what was going on in the relationship before this and I'd say hitting her and cheating on her are worse crimes. she can just leave him if she wants but she accepted him back already after hitting her. maybe it suits her financially to stay with him - can't think of any other reason why she is still there.

    Right well law and society in general has come to the conclusion that it is a big deal, so again your own personal view does not matter. It won’t matter to a judge if your partner ever decides they’re actually not okay with this and speaks up about it either, then you’ll be welcome to think the same thing while alone in prison...which is where we send people (who we refer to as ‘rapists’) who act on your opinion.


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    #69
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    because i don't think it's a big deal between a married couple.

    the real issue here is what was going on in the relationship before this and I'd say hitting her and cheating on her are worse crimes. she can just leave him if she wants but she accepted him back already after hitting her. maybe it suits her financially to stay with him - can't think of any other reason why she is still there.

    You think a marriage certificate makes it OK for a man to have sex without consent?

    The OPs issues aside, even in a happy marriage it is never OK for one party to force themselves on another. Rape is rape and marital rape has been a crime for 30 years.

    I am gobsmacked at the attitudes of some people on this thread, no wonder rape is still so under reported.


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    #70
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    because i don't think it's a big deal between a married couple.

    the real issue here is what was going on in the relationship before this and I'd say hitting her and cheating on her are worse crimes. she can just leave him if she wants but she accepted him back already after hitting her. maybe it suits her financially to stay with him - can't think of any other reason why she is still there.

    Where exactly does a vulnerable woman go? How does she fund a new home without a decent income? The most dangerous time for a women in a violent relationship is when she leaves, it might not seem logical to you but women like the OP have to manage the situation they are in and sometimes staying is the safer option in the short term.


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    #71
    mistress_gi
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭mistress_gi


    Hi OP. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Whatever way you want to frame it this was assault. I ask you this:
    If this happened to your mother/daughter/niece, or equivalent, what would you say?
    Talk to someone, clear your head and then decide what way you would like to proceed.
    Virtual hugs hun...


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    #72
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    actually it doesn't seem that clear. me and my wife may have raped or sexually assaulted each other hundreds of times according to the law.

    let's see some actual cases as thin as this that were prosecuted and convicted please.


    The difference is that you and your wife have done this hundreds of times.


    In situations where it is demonstrated that consent was not granted, the defence of 'honest belief' that consent had been gained still exists.



    If you did it tonight, and your wife said it was assault/rape, and it went to court, you would be able to argue 'honest belief' that consent had been gained due to the fact that it has happened hundreds of times before.


    There is nothing in the OP's case to suggest that their partner had any reason to have 'honest belief' that consent had been gained.


    You are (deliberately, I'd guess) not comparing like with like.


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    #73
    sallyanne12
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭sallyanne12


    I was never stating 100% it's not rape. I was simply honestly saying I never would have thought it would be rape. And yes I always would have thought a man forcefully raping his wife was rape. I think it is clearly rape when She says no but she never said no. But I do think what he did was disgusting and wrong and he's a horrible man- I'm not defending him, was only looking at it in comparison to others. And as I said I wouldn't be surprised if its rape when I delve deep into it and if it happened to me I'd be livid but initially wouldn't have thought so. No need for mean words against me :(


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    #74
    Whymeme
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Whymeme


    Hello to all. I have been reading very carefully all your responses, some have surprised me, but thanks to everyone regardless.

    Having a bit of a tough time this week as he is home 24/7 as work has closed, and things are not going great.

    I'm trying to keep myself to myself as much is possible, but will respond a bit more later on when I have time.

    Thanks everyone x


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    #75
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Mind yourself x


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    #76
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    Some responses on this thread shows why we need to educate people on rape.


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    #77
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    if you've been raped you need to call the gardai and seek support from a rape crisis centre


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    #78
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,790 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Mod Note

    All posters are reminded this is an advice forum, rather than a discussion forum. You can, of course, disagree with another person but please do so in the context of advising the OP. This is their thread which they posted searching for advice. Please respect that and speak to them. Not to others.


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    #79
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    You let your husband have sex with you while pretending to be asleep. That’s not rape.


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    #80
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    leggo wrote: »
    Right well law and society in general has come to the conclusion that it is a big deal, so again your own personal view does not matter. It won’t matter to a judge if your partner ever decides they’re actually not okay with this and speaks up about it either, then you’ll be welcome to think the same thing while alone in prison...which is where we send people (who we refer to as ‘rapists’) who act on your opinion.

    are there any examples where Irish law has convicted a case like this?


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    #81
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You don't think a man raping his wife is a big deal?
    Jesus Christ

    i don't agree that it is rape.


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    #82
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You think a marriage certificate makes it OK for a man to have sex without consent?

    The OPs issues aside, even in a happy marriage it is never OK for one party to force themselves on another. Rape is rape and marital rape has been a crime for 30 years.

    I am gobsmacked at the attitudes of some people on this thread, no wonder rape is still so under reported.

    I think a marriage certificate is consent unless he was threatening or physically abusive during the act or she said no for whatever reason.

    however i wouldn't condone his behaviour because of the circumstances of what was happening prior in the relationship. i wouldn't go to the extreme of calling it rape.


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    #83
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    I think a marriage certificate is consent unless he was threatening or physically abusive during the act or she said no for whatever reason.
    ...

    Did you mean to say you don't think a marriage certificate is consent? Because a marriage certificate isn't consent. It isn't consent by law or by any other measure.

    It's interesting to know there are people out there with this view, but it's pretty important that the OP knows it's wrong and shouldn't base any decisions on that advice.


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    #84
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,790 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    kowloonkev and El_Duderino 09,

    You have both posted directly below a mod warning to cut out the general discussion and offer advice to the OP who asked for it. If you cannot offer anything to the OP by way of advice then please do not post in the thread again


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    #85
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    OP, I hope you know that a marriage certificate is not consent. If anyone tells you a marriage certificate is consent be sure to know it is Incorrect information.


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    #86
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 13,790 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Off topic post deleted. Please read Mod warnings on thread. Cards will be issued from this point.


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    #87
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    People with their selfish agendas are missing the point. The OP needs to GET OUT of that situation straight away. Seek help from family/friends/womens aid. You dont need to be treated like this, there is a better life ahead if you pluck up the courage to leave


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    #88
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    The chan chan man wrote: »
    You let your husband have sex with you while pretending to be asleep. That’s not rape.
    moving away from the is it/isnt it question, OP - if you are in a relationship in which you are awake and your husband starts having sex with you and then rather than telling him to get off you, you pretend to be asleep or unconscious...that's extremely dysfunctional and messed up. let this be the trigger to you getting out of there.


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    #89
    Whymeme
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Whymeme


    I did not pretend to be asleep or unconscious.

    I was neither completely awake, nor in a deep sleep. I was in that sort of half and half state.

    The story makes sense to me! Because that's what happened.

    I was vaguely aware of him masturbating. I ignored it But I heard it and felt movement beside me.

    He didn't touch me, caress me, nor say a word. I felt my knickers go down, at this point I still wasn't completely awake. Then he proceeded to have sex with me,in total silence, at which point yes I did fully wake up.

    I realised immediately what was happening. I was aware that he had drunk a little more than usual, but at no point did I think he was drunk to the point he didn't know wear he was doing.

    Yes, I did not say a thing I was totally shocked, couldn't really react. It was about 3.30 am. I wanted to say /yell what the f are you doing? But couldn't! He would have really reacted badly, sort of for fs sake why didn't you say then?

    Whatever. Maybe I should have said something at the time, regardless of how I know he would have reacted to it.

    I'm annoyed with myself for not telling him to f of there and then, but I couldn't. At no point have I called it rape. I have no idea what to call it, except that I feel violated, and his cursory sorry does not cut it. As I said, my plan is to get out, when I can.

    As a side note, I am not physically disabled, but I do have many chronic health conditions that prevent me from being totally financially independent, and completely mobile, rheumatoid arthritis being just one.

    Thank you all. Very interesting to hear people's opinions.


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    #90
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    You’ve done absolutely nothing wrong OP. You should be able sleep beside your partner without being violated. Everyone has a right to say no before someone has sex with them. The thoughts you’re feeling right now are totally normal for a victim, if you get a chance give the Rape Crisis Centre a call and they’ll reassure you and be able to talk you through what you’re feeling. You don’t have to take any actions, you’re not reporting him and don’t have to leave your home unless you’re ready to. It’s just free support.

    Ignore opinions here that are confusing you. Sadly there are others like your husband who will tie themselves up in logical knots to try convince themselves they’re not rapists.


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    #91
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭Tork


    Ringing the Rape Crisis Centre is good advice. Even if you don't think it's rape, telling somebody out loud what happened can only help.

    You didn't got into any details as to why you let your husband back into the house after he assaulted you. You don't have to explain or justify it to us because you had your reasons. The one thing to take from this latest incident is that your husband has crossed another line. He was violent to you in the past and now he's treating you like some sort of sex doll. I can't even begin to imagine what life is like with him in the house all the time now. He shouldn't be there because he assaulted you previously. Did you ever go to the guards or get any sort of barring order against him? Is there any way at all that you can live apart from him? I get the feeling that a lot of your thinking is shaped by being financially dependent on him.


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