Is this technically assault? No??

Whymeme

Long time member, different account as family knows my name.....

I'm fking fked off and stomping around. I slept on the sofa last night. I'm tired didn't sleep. I can't really talk to my friend right now because I will cry and then ill lose my Sht completely.

Last night my husband had SEX WITH ME WHEN HE THOUGHT I WAS ASLEEP.

I was so shocked I let him do it.total silence throughout. Didn't attempt to speak to me, or touch me for me. I'm still shocked. I got up went to bathroom and got back into bed. He got up, all this in total SILENCE came to my side of the bed and had a drink of water, and then said sorry I got carried away. I literally couldn't speak. I got up, he asks where I was going, and I said downstairs for coffee.

This morning he asked, in front of our DAUGHTER why I slept on sofa. Well really.

I have said today, after a whole day of him not speaking to me AT ALL that I'm just gobsmacked that he thinks a sorry won't happen again is sufficient, and now he's annoyed that I've mentioned it more than twice thereby going on and on. He said sorry and that's that.


He asked why I didn't say anything at the time. Well there is history, and I was really shocked, couldn't believe that I felt actually that I was having a sort of out of body experience.!! Was not going to get him pissed off by reacting how I really wanted to react. Which would have been to say what the effing hell do you think you're doing. So I just lay there rigid.

I have been waiting all day for him to approach me and actually say omg, what the hell, sorry, and I mean a proper sorry. Like he means sorry. Nothing, not a bloody word.

This has never ever happened before. He said OH dear had too much to drink. I dont give a toss.

Just asked him right now whether he thought I was asleep or awake. Awake! Asleep! Don't know!

Not quite sure what to do next.

Chocolate fiend

I am so sorry this happened to you. He raped you, you need to know that, there is no excuse and no sorry for that. He is a rapist.

Talk to someone in real life if you can.

Also, it was not your fault you didn't say anything, he was 100% in the wrong.

As for what to do next, you do know but it will be hard.

Kidchameleon

But you were awake? Perhaps he knew? Why not just say no? The story makes no sense OP

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

But you were awake? Perhaps he knew? Why not just say no? The story makes no sense OP

Did you read the post? She was so shocked she couldn't react, a very typical reaction when someone you know well and trust does something like this.

OP I'm very sorry this happened to you. I would recommend contacting the Rape Crisis Centre. I know people will say its not rape probably because its your husband but if you were in that situation with anyone else it would be very clear. Being in a relationship doesn't make it OK.

Hannibal_Smith

What do you mean there is history?

Kidchameleon

There is a condition called "sexomnia". It is a real condition and your husbands confusion the morning after could be a symptom. Worth looking into if he has history

kowloonkev

Honestly trying to get my head around this. How distant a relationship does it have to be for something like this to happen. Maybe the husband thinks they're a lot closer than the wife. Maybe he thinks when we marry we give ourselves to our partners. Maybe he thinks we won't be so appalled and shocked by a husband's sexual advance in bed that we'll be able to say 'no'.


There is obviously something very wrong in a relationship where the wife would rather pretend to be sleeping rather than speak openly, and where the husband will carry on regardless.

Do I think it is assault? No
Do I think it is rape? No

whiskeyman

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There is a condition called "sexomnia". It is a real condition and your husbands confusion the morning after could be a symptom. Worth looking into if he has history

She said he had a lot of drink taken so I doubt it's this.

Jesus OP this is just awful for you.
His actions now are so important and it looks like you're seeing nothing to help your frame of mind or situation.

I wonder if now that's he's sober he realises the severity of what he did.
In sure he wishes it didn't happen and hopes by not mentioning it it'll go away.
You do mention history - did such happen before?

I think you need to call trained support like the rape crisis centre. Not many here can give you proper advice..
Take care.

El_Duderino 09

OP, what you've described is a rape. Sex needs consent and if you try to have sex with someone who is unconscious then you've raped them because you're not even giving them the opportunity to consent or not.

But probably the most important thing is the breach of trust. Some of the questions you'll need to ask in the near future will include whether or not you can trust him again. And what's the story with him doing that?

You really do need to find someone to talk to about this. Whether it's the rape crisis people, another professional trained to deal with sexual assault or a friend who can give some kind of expert advice on what to do next.

Idle Passerby

He raped you! It's horrible that so many people seem to think this is no big deal. You have every right to be shocked and upset by this. Your husband's total lack of understanding of the severity of what he did is not acceptable.

El_Duderino 09

Idle Passerby wrote: »

He raped you! It's horrible that so many people seem to think this is no big deal. You have every right to be shocked and upset by this. Your husband's total lack of understanding of the severity of what he did is not acceptable.

As you can see from the posts above, some people have a very relaxed view of what and isn't rape. If you read the threads about rape you find out that some people really wouldn't consider the OP's experience to be a rape.

This isn’t the place to discuss those different understandings of rape. The point I'm getting at is that some people really don't get it and the OP's partner might be one of those people who thinks it's not a big deal. So there’s little point waiting for him to understand the severity of the situation. That’s why the OP really needs some professional support to understand the situation and decide what to do next.

dinky earnshaw

Agree with above poster this is not the place to get advice on what happened. Unfortunately despite what others will tell you it may not be a black and white situation. Nobody knows how your or anyone else's relationship works but the people involved .Talk to someone OP and mind yourself.

zapper55

I'm so sorry OP. Such a horrible break of trust. I would ring the Rape Crisis Centre just to be able to talk to someone about it.

For those of you nitpicking, freezing during an assault is common, especially if it brings back previous memories of abuse (her reference to history) . Also his admission that he got carried away, to put it mildly, says it all.

He's trying to put it back on you by asking why you didnt say anything. A sleeping/frozen partner isnt consent so that's just him trying to deflect.

bitofabind

I'm so sorry you had to go through this OP. Of course your feelings are all over the place right now. Please try to go easy on yourself and talk to someone. Take the good advice here and call the Rape Crisis Centre. And try to create some distance between you and your husband while you process this (I know that's difficult in these challenging times). Tell him to sleep in the spare room or on the sofa.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

But you were awake? Perhaps he knew? Why not just say no? The story makes no sense OP

And please ignore this. A sadly common response to rape and sexual assault is to throw it back on the person who has been abused.

By legal definition, rape is 'penetration with a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person without their consent'. Your husband believed you were asleep. A sleeping person cannot give consent. Your froze in shock / fear / disbelief - a very common reaction when someone is being violated in this way. Consent can sometimes be implicit in your body language, engagement, foreplay - none of these signs were there. He went ahead and had sex with you without any involvement or consensual engagement from you. This is an incredible, astronomical violation of trust and respect and it is a trauma.

Please call someone and create some space between you and your husband for the next few days.

Whymeme

Thank you all for your replies.
To be clear, when I say history I don't mean this has happened before.
History of him cheating, lying, being violent, and gambling issues.

We had a separation last year after I confronted him and he assaulted me, and he has been back since October. I have posted about him before, different account.

I know what I need to do, and I'm planning slowly, difficult as I'm not working and on disability.

He says he's annoyed with himself. But is shouting at me!

For those who have asked why I didn't react....... I actually was shocked. Then I sort of figured I had better just not say anything, he's volatile, it was very late, just easier to put up and shut up. Like I seem to be doing all the time anyway.

I do know I need to GET OUT and I'm trying to figure things out, except its taking sooo long.

ILoveYourVibes

I think he crossed a line. I think its rape.

I mean if you want to have an agreement with your husband yeah you can have sex with me when i am sleeping etc. Fine. If you want to have the option of having sex with your wife while she sleeps. Why not talk about that with her? Hey can i do this? If she says no ..you know you can't.


I think waking up to him already IN YOU etc and not having arranged this prior ..would be very upsetting.

I don't know if this helps

https://www.thejournal.ie/rape-consent-3203379-Jan2017/



Call the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre 1800 778 888

His history etc. It makes me think he doesn't see you as a person. That he thinks he can behave anyway.

Im really sorry OP.

He sounds like a monster.

eviltwin

Whymeme wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.
To be clear, when I say history I don't mean this has happened before.
History of him cheating, lying, being violent, and gambling issues.

We had a separation last year after I confronted him and he assaulted me, and he has been back since October. I have posted about him before, different account.

I know what I need to do, and I'm planning slowly, difficult as I'm not working and on disability.

He says he's annoyed with himself. But is shouting at me!

For those who have asked why I didn't react....... I actually was shocked. Then I sort of figured I had better just not say anything, he's volatile, it was very late, just easier to put up and shut up. Like I seem to be doing all the time anyway.

I do know I need to GET OUT and I'm trying to figure things out, except its taking sooo long.

It's good you recognise this for what it is and have a plan. Rape and domestic violence often go hand in hand as does the inevitable gaslighting to minimise what he did. Please contact women's aid or RCC.

ILoveYourVibes

He says he's annoyed with himself. But is shouting at me!

He is just barking at you to get you to submit and go back to normal.


Ring around the various organizations. Collect yourself. Make sure you are safe though. Then make a plan.

I hope you are ok OP.

Neyite

The concern now is that he may be potentially volatile. And is brazening it out so that you'd begin to doubt yourself and wonder if you are making too much of it. Gaslighting at it's best.



You should probably contact your local Womens Aid branch if you can do so safely and chat to them about what steps you can put in place to protect you in your exit strategy.



I'm sorry this happened to you. It is assault and it is abusive behaviour. It may take time to process what's just happened and there's no 'right' reaction when you are in shock. But there's no doubt he crossed a massive line, and once a line has been crossed the first time, it's easier for the perpetrator to cross it again. Is there another room you can sleep in with a lock?

Hannibal_Smith

Whymeme wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.
To be clear, when I say history I don't mean this has happened before.
History of him cheating, lying, being violent, and gambling issues.

We had a separation last year after I confronted him and he assaulted me, and he has been back since October. I have posted about him before, different account.

I know what I need to do, and I'm planning slowly, difficult as I'm not working and on disability.

He says he's annoyed with himself. But is shouting at me!

For those who have asked why I didn't react....... I actually was shocked. Then I sort of figured I had better just not say anything, he's volatile, it was very late, just easier to put up and shut up. Like I seem to be doing all the time anyway.

I do know I need to GET OUT and I'm trying to figure things out, except its taking sooo long.

You did nothing wrong. The history is not a good one and you're right. You do need to get out. That's it. Have you family that you can stay with?

Emme

Whymeme wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.
To be clear, when I say history I don't mean this has happened before.
History of him cheating, lying, being violent, and gambling issues.

We had a separation last year after I confronted him and he assaulted me, and he has been back since October. I have posted about him before, different account.

I know what I need to do, and I'm planning slowly, difficult as I'm not working and on disability.

He says he's annoyed with himself. But is shouting at me!

For those who have asked why I didn't react....... I actually was shocked. Then I sort of figured I had better just not say anything, he's volatile, it was very late, just easier to put up and shut up. Like I seem to be doing all the time anyway.

I do know I need to GET OUT and I'm trying to figure things out, except its taking sooo long.

OP the first thing I thought that you both had a bit to drink, these are strange times and maybe he thought you were awake. Even if that was the case he would have been in the wrong.

From what you say above it's a different story. Lying there afraid to say anything because he's volatile. As you know there is such a thing as rape inside marriage. Call the Rape Crisis Centre for advice.

Good luck.

kowloonkev

In light of the OP resonse I can now understand why she didn't say 'no' if there has been violence towards her in the past.

While I still don't think it is rape, I do think she should seek help of other family around her and end a relationship in which she feels scared.

leggo

kowloonkev wrote: »

In light of the OP resonse I can now understand why she didn't say 'no' if there has been violence towards her in the past.

While I still don't think it is rape, I do think she should seek help of other family around her and end a relationship in which she feels scared.

It is rape. It’s legally rape: people have been charged and imprisoned over near identical cases, the law is very clear on this. It’s not a matter of opinion or up for debate, it’s a fact. Your ‘opinion’ on this isn’t helpful and doesn’t actually matter.

El_Duderino 09

kowloonkev wrote: »

In light of the OP resonse I can now understand why she didn't say 'no' if there has been violence towards her in the past.

While I still don't think it is rape, I do think she should seek help of other family around her and end a relationship in which she feels scared.

What the OP has described is a rape. But lots of posters (and presumably lots of people in reality) don't consider it a rape. This is an interesting phenomenon and it becomes clear on threads about rape.

Legally it's rape and it's pretty unhelpful to tell the OP that it's not rape in your opinion because your opinion isn't really relevant. But it does give an interesting insight into some people's thought process. Some people think this kind of rape, isn't rape at all. The OP's partner might think like these people and might have committed a rape without knowing it was a rape.

It seems obvious the OP's partner knew what he was doing was wrong as he apologised (even if he was subsequently unpleasant about it).

I hope the OP contacts some kind of professional service to get an expert opinion and gets support to make the decisions she needs to make next

ShaShaBear

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What the OP has described is a rape. But lots of posters (and presumably lots of people in reality) don't consider it a rape. This is an interesting phenomenon and it becomes clear on threads about rape.

Legally it's rape and it's pretty unhelpful to tell the OP that it's not rape in your opinion because your opinion isn't really relevant. But it does give an interesting insight into some people's thought process. Some people think this kind of rape, isn't rape at all. The OP's partner might think like these people and might have committed a rape without knowing it was a rape.

It seems obvious the OP's partner knew what he was doing was wrong as he apologised (even if he was subsequently unpleasant about it).

I hope the OP contacts some kind of professional service to get an expert opinion and gets support to make the decisions she needs to make next

I've always defined any potential case of rape based on the victim's feelings on the subject. However, I think what many posters here were getting at BEFORE the OP told us that her partner is abusive in many other ways and that she is afraid of him as a result, is that perhaps the partner himself didn't know it was rape.
For example - my husband would regularly get into bed after me, and I have often been woken up by him "getting interested" and it's fun, I enjoy it and am happy to let him. So obviously it's consensual and neither of us consider it rape. However, if I simply once decided I did not want it and proceeded to lie there and let him do it without voicing a "no", my husband would likely not realise that its now rape - at least not straight away.
I say that because I'm sure every person here thoroughly believes it is absolutely rape if the victim of the assault didn't want it to occur, regardless what he or she said or didn't say at the time. Obviously after the OP updated us, we were all in agreement that the partner likely knew full well what he was doing, whereas before they were simply stating that he may not have been aware the silence was a "no".

eviltwin

kowloonkev wrote: »

In light of the OP resonse I can now understand why she didn't say 'no' if there has been violence towards her in the past.

While I still don't think it is rape, I do think she should seek help of other family around her and end a relationship in which she feels scared.

Why not? Because they're married? Because she didn't say stop? Because he didn't have to hold her down?

You might not think it's rape but the law does. Its quite worrying to think there are people who don't see his actions as non consentual sex

osarusan

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I've always defined any potential case of rape based on the victim's feelings on the subject. However, I think what many posters here were getting at BEFORE the OP told us that her partner is abusive in many other ways and that she is afraid of him as a result, is that perhaps the partner himself didn't know it was rape.
For example - my husband would regularly get into bed after me, and I have often been woken up by him "getting interested" and it's fun, I enjoy it and am happy to let him. So obviously it's consensual and neither of us consider it rape. However, if I simply once decided I did not want it and proceeded to lie there and let him do it without voicing a "no", my husband would likely not realise that its now rape - at least not straight away.
I say that because I'm sure every person here thoroughly believes it is absolutely rape if the victim of the assault didn't want it to occur, regardless what he or she said or didn't say at the time. Obviously after the OP updated us, we were all in agreement that the partner likely knew full well what he was doing, whereas before they were simply stating that he may not have been aware the silence was a "no".

Fully agree with this post, the information the OP followed up with makes it pretty clear that there was no 'history' that might have given the OP's partner the idea that what they did was going to be enthusiastically welcomed.

Gonad

Out of curiosity is this something he usually does , as in would he try instigate sex like this and would you usually go with it and join in or would you usually tell him to stop that you were not in the mood ?

Or is this the first time he has ever tried to instigate sex In this way ?

I only ask because I know sometimes I would try to instigate like this late at night and miss Gonad sometimes will wake and sex would take place or sometimes she would tell me to F off and i would get out back in my place and sulk for a little while , then other times I have literally woke up while we were having sex and i would not even know how it started and nor would she . Then on other occasions it would be her trying to instigate and I would wake up and either go with it or tell her to F off if I was not in the mood .

I have often woke while she is trying to have sex and I had been asleep for probably a few minutes but I would never accuse her of anything other than trying to relieve some stress .

Not trying to downplay what happened but more so that everyone will probably have a different view of the situation as every relationship is different .

El_Duderino 09

Gonad wrote: »

Out of curiosity is this something he usually does , as in would he try instigate sex like this and would you usually go with it and join in or would you usually tell him to stop that you were not in the mood ?

Or is this the first time he has ever tried to instigate sex In this way ?

OP has said how they feel about what happened. That should really be enough information.

As you say, all relationships are different and it seems that initiating sex while asleep is fine in your relationship. But that's something that has to be established. If you haven't chatted about it or made some kind of agreement, then the first time you try it you're on very shaky ground. And actually going through with it when you think your partner is asleep, as per the OP, then that's just rape.

Tork

History of him cheating, lying, being violent, and gambling issues.

We had a separation last year after I confronted him and he assaulted me, and he has been back since October. I have posted about him before, different account.

I know what I need to do, and I'm planning slowly, difficult as I'm not working and on disability.

This sounds like an escalation of the previous abuse in your marriage and should be read as the flashing neon sign that it is. You refer to him as "been back since October" which sounds like he was gone from the house for a while. Why did you take him back? Did you think things would be better? Did he promise to behave himself?

It looks like you're very dependent on him because of your disability. Could you survive financially if he was to leave? Is he working? What about your family? You mentioned a daughter. Have you anybody who could help you here? You seem to have decided you've got to leave but are being held back for certain reasons.

Even if you don't think this is rape (I do, now that I've read your update), I think you need to be very careful about him. Especially if he is confined to home and can't move around freely. Coronavirus is going to make a lot of unhappy homes even worse if abusive partners are confined to barracks.

TheBoyConor

OP you really need to get out of that horrible, toxic marriage. Talk to the rape crisis centre and then go to the Gardai and report it.
Don't mind any of his excuses, it is what it is.
The fact that you are in fear of violence and now this has happened puts you in a very very stong position to get a protection and barring order if you bring the accusation against him. You really need to do this and hopefully he will be convicted and put on the offenders register.

Gonad wrote: »

Out of curiosity is this something he usually does , as in would he try instigate sex like this and would you usually go with it and join in or would you usually tell him to stop that you were not in the mood ?

Or is this the first time he has ever tried to instigate sex In this way ?

I only ask because I know sometimes I would try to instigate like this late at night and miss Gonad sometimes will wake and sex would take place or sometimes she would tell me to F off and i would get out back in my place and sulk for a little while , then other times I have literally woke up while we were having sex and i would not even know how it started and nor would she . Then on other occasions it would be her trying to instigate and I would wake up and either go with it or tell her to F off if I was not in the mood .

I have often woke while she is trying to have sex and I had been asleep for probably a few minutes but I would never accuse her of anything other than trying to relieve some stress .

Not trying to downplay what happened but more so that everyone will probably have a different view of the situation as every relationship is different .

I find that to be a truly frightening set up. The potential there for misunderstandings and allegations and accusations being brought is huge. You are dicing with danger my friend.