Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Recommend me a great 9/11 online documentary. What is the very best 9/11 documentary?

Options
13567…11

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It doesn't "make sense" to you. Personally. That's fine, that's your opinion.

    Then tell us what really happened with credible evidence

    Failing that, then I will obviously have to go with the findings of multiple investigations on the issue, as well as the consensus of experts over that of one incredulous person on the internet

    I can't.

    That's why I don't necessarily believe the official story. The evidence doesn't support that story either. Holes can be punched in that story too.

    I don't pretend to know all of the answers but the very idea that the official story can be questioned, reasonably, is enough for me.


  • Options
    #63
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    On their accounting software.

    Do you have access to their software?


  • Options
    #64
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    I didnt mention any of this stuff.

    You did.

    So what's your alternative?
    Do you believe that all of those conspiracy explanations are false?
    Why is yours different?


  • Options
    #65
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    Do you have access to their software?

    No need to be pedantic thanks

    Conspiracy theorists try to play the story as the DoD (or Pentagon) "losing" or "hiding" money.

    The reality is that the DoD has apparently had accounting and reconciliation issues for decades due to shiatty practices, a myriad of old software and having an enormous bureaucracy

    When they mentioned 2.3 trillion, it doesn't mean it "disppeared" into the ether, they are claiming it can't be accounted for properly, up to their auditing standards


  • Options
    #66
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No need to be pedantic thanks

    Conspiracy theorists try to play the story as the DoD (or Pentagon) "losing" or "hiding" money.

    The reality is that the DoD has apparently had accounting and reconciliation issues for decades due to shiatty practices, a myriad of old software and having an enormous bureaucracy

    When they mentioned 2.3 trillion, it doesn't mean it "disppeared" into the ether, they are claiming it can't be accounted for properly, up to their auditing standards

    Whats the difference?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No need to be pedantic thanks

    Conspiracy theorists try to play the story as the DoD (or Pentagon) "losing" or "hiding" money.

    The reality is that the DoD has apparently had accounting and reconciliation issues for decades due to shiatty practices, a myriad of old software and having an enormous bureaucracy

    When they mentioned 2.3 trillion, it doesn't mean it "disppeared" into the ether, they are claiming it can't be accounted for properly, up to their auditing standards

    You started it.


  • Options
    #68
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    Whats the difference?

    Can you account for every bit of cash you spent or received in the last 10 years

    If you can't, does that mean all your money was stolen?

    No. It means you don't have all the correct bills/receipts/accounting done.


  • Options
    #69
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Ya get a lot of abuse in the 9/11 threads if you don’t believe the official story


  • Options
    #70
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Although not completely focused on 9/11, I found 'The Power of Nightmares' by Adam Curtis an excellent watch.


  • Options
    #71
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    I can't.

    That's why I don't necessarily believe the official story. The evidence doesn't support that story either. Holes can be punched in that story too.

    I don't pretend to know all of the answers but the very idea that the official story can be questioned, reasonably, is enough for me.

    How do you know the facts don't support the event when you admit to not knowing much about it?

    Do you automatically believe 7/7, the Madrid bombings, Sandy Hook, Boston bombing, Charlie Hebdo, Paris 2015 were all inside jobs because "holes" were punched in those stories?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Can you account for every bit of cash you spent or received in the last 10 years

    If you can't, does that mean all your money was stolen?

    No. It means you don't have all the correct bills/receipts/accounting done.

    No. Because I dont have to. I would have been able to If I had to prepare accounts.

    The accounting staff at the pentagon do have to prepare accounts. $ 2.3 trillion that was unaccounted for should have set serious alarm bells ringing even if 9\11 had never happened.


  • Options
    #73
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Ya get a lot of abuse in the 9/11 threads if you don’t believe the official story

    Care to point out an example of this?

    Or is being asked difficult questions "abuse"?


  • Options
    #74
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Ya get a lot of abuse in the 9/11 threads if you don’t believe the official story

    If you join any forum claiming 911 or Sandy Hook or the Holocaust was an inside job with no credible evidence you'll find people will challenge you. Likewise if you don't "buy the official story on the world being round".

    Calling someone out on a complete lack of logic or reason is not abuse.


  • Options
    #75
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    The accounting staff at the pentagon do have to prepare accounts.

    Correct and it wasn't done up to auditing standards. Hence the issue.

    2.3 trillion unaccounted for (spent and received but not accounted for correctly) is very different from 2.3 stolen/disappeared

    The latter would have a very serious impact on the economy

    Conspiracy theorists try to distort the story to appear as if all the money has been nefariously stolen, which is incorrect


  • Options
    #76
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    How do you know the facts don't support the event when you admit to not knowing much about it?

    Do you automatically believe 7/7, the Madrid bombings, Sandy Hook, Boston bombing, Charlie Hebdo, Paris 2015 were all inside jobs because "holes" were punched in those stories?

    You dont necesarily have to be a expert to have concerns about 9\11.


  • Options
    #77
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    You dont necesarily have to be a expert to have concerns about 9\11.
    Mad thought, but maybe if you don't know all the facts, maybe your assumptions might be incorrect?
    And maybe your "doubts" and "concerns" are the result of incorrect information or deliberate misinformation from conspiracy theorists?


  • Options
    #78
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Hector Bellend wrote: »
    But the 19 hijackers with box cutters story is perfectly believable.

    My bad.

    Why not? As far as the pilots were concerned, it was just a regular hijacking. Gives us money and release members of the campaign to fre galilee.
    Now we have convergent conspiracies to bring down wtc 7 for whatever reason and the teon towers


  • Options
    #79
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I watched a bit of that woman's 2hr documentary about "Where did the Towers go".

    Well, I flicked through it.

    So what was the answer? Where did they go? Physically I never thought about that myself before. Did she provide an answer?


  • Options
    #80
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    skallywag wrote: »
    Although not completely focused on 9/11, I found 'The Power of Nightmares' by Adam Curtis an excellent watch.

    It is. Not much to do with conspiracies, though.


  • Options
    #81
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    I cannot imagine dedicating that much of my life to trying to debunk what actually happened that day, fair play to you Cheerful Spring. Dedication to the cause, no doubt, however misguided it may be.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No different from anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers and so on. Some people may see conspiracies as a harmless novelty "hobby". Disinformation is disinformation, can have consequences. I certainly wouldn't be applauding it


  • Options
    #83
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Ipso wrote: »
    It is. Not much to do with conspiracies, though.

    Well, I wouldn't exactly agree with that. The underlying tone is that the overall threat is much exaggerated on purpose by those in power, in order to facilitate their own gains.


  • Options
    #84
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    skallywag wrote: »
    Well, I wouldn't exactly agree with that. The underlying tone is that the overall threat is much exaggerated on purpose by those in power, in order to facilitate their own gains.

    How is the threat exaggerated? (I believe the UK saw 4 attacks in one year)


  • Options
    #85
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No different from anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers and so on. Some people may see conspiracies as a harmless novelty "hobby". Disinformation is disinformation, can have consequences. I certainly wouldn't be applauding it

    I was being sarcastic, surely the poster I mentioned could dedicate all this time to a real cause. Or maybe do an evening course or something.


  • Options
    #86
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ah, not used to sarcasm round these parts

    I mean it's understandable that people get worked up/vent about real issues, plastic in the oceans, corruption, bin charges, whatever

    But to witness people getting all wound up about an imagined issue is always surreal


  • Options
    #87
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    skallywag wrote: »
    Well, I wouldn't exactly agree with that. The underlying tone is that the overall threat is much exaggerated on purpose by those in power, in order to facilitate their own gains.

    Jason Burke appeared on that show and has a very good book on Al Qaeda, his idea is that the nature of Al Qaeda was mis-represented, it's not a massive monolithical structured organization where the orders come from the top down.
    It's more of a banner or something to rally behind, local nut jobs come up with attack idea and then turn to the leadership for resources etc


  • Options
    #88
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    How is the threat exaggerated? (I believe the UK saw 4 attacks in one year)

    He goes into this in detail over the three episodes, in fact the complete title for the series is 'The Power of Nightmares : The Rise of the Politics of Fear'. It covers subject matter from the 60s to recent times (was made in 2004).

    Well worth a watch, some thought provoking content, although I would question myself some of his conclusions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares


  • Options
    #89
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    skallywag wrote: »
    He goes into this in detail over the three episodes, in fact the complete title for the series is 'The Power of Nightmares : The Rise of the Politics of Fear'. It covers subject matter from the 60s to recent times (was made in 2004).

    Well worth a watch, some thought provoking content, although I would question myself some of his conclusions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares

    Thanks, I watched it when it came out. It's a bit redundant in recent times because of the increases in terrorist incidents and attacks.

    After 911 the public mood was dark, some politicians and officials (e.g. Giuliani) took advantage of that. However fear was never really a doctrine, it was more a common sense approach taken by most countries to combat terrorism without going overboard (a delicate balancing act)

    Ironically conspiracy theorists latch onto an extreme version of this whereby every major terrorist attack is a neat "inside job" to scare the public into some sort of unspecified dystopian future (which never happens). Ironically the conspiracy community use fear-mongering and disinformation to an extreme to get to this narrative


  • Options
    #90
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    I cannot imagine dedicating that much of my life to trying to debunk what actually happened that day, fair play to you Cheerful Spring. Dedication to the cause, no doubt, however misguided it may be.

    It's important we find out what happened on 9/11. That event has changed the Middle East and people lives have been ruined.

    What I never will understand is why 9/11 Skeptics support the NIST study? I still amazed to this day this study is supported when it been established beyond all doubt now the girder at column 79 had 30 shear studs, a web plate stiffener, and fasteners. It changes everything about what NIST stated occurred. I fully convinced people like Dohnjoe has no idea what that even significant?

    Then there another issue. Just take NIST on its word here as there very little else to support their version of events.

    This is stage 1 how the collapse began according to NIST

    The girder came off its seat at column 79 on floor 13, 5 or 6 floors beneath floor 13 collapsed then. Then Floor 14 and floors above it began collapsing and then the Penthouse fell in and finally the rest of the floors in the middle of the building started to fall down. Remember always this event occurred in NIST model because the girder was unsupported. The shear studs and web plate and fasteners provide stability and stiffness they stop steel girders from moving off the seat.

    Then we have the added problem, the NIST model shows a time of 20+ seconds for all the floors to break and collapse down, then the west corner wall started descending (this was after the East Penthouse left the roof ) It did not happen this way you can view the actual collapse video and when the East penthouse left the roof it took only 6 to 7 seconds for the west corner wall to start moving. That literally means NIST progressive collapse is junk science. The actual video of the collapse shows the floors and columns came down much faster then NIST states. With Freefall present the implications are obvious it was done by controlled demolition.

    Then we have NIST lying about Eyewitnesses seeing molten liquid of Iron and Steel. Did they just conveniently forget the photographic and video evidence of this and FEMA finding a liquid made of Iron? They also denied WTC7 noise. And sure finding WTC7 steel flange melted by high temp isn't worth investigating? FEMA even states temp need for this to occur where higher than was even achievable in an office fire.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Ipso wrote: »
    Why not? As far as the pilots were concerned, it was just a regular hijacking. Gives us money and release members of the campaign to fre galilee.
    Now we have convergent conspiracies to bring down wtc 7 for whatever reason and the teon towers

    Even the most recognised 9/11 Skeptics are open that Saudi Arabia was involved in planning and funding of this event. I was shocked when I read a post from Oystein a well-known Skeptic on the JREF forum. He too thinks there is good evidence that Prince Bandar was involved. We made some progress I believe between the two sides.

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331859

    Oystein probably never goes as far truthers on this but it obvious if Prince Bandar was involved you can't rule out a rogue element in the US also was involved in too.


Advertisement