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19-01-2021, 20:16   #241
TP_CM
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Anyone have advice for solving sleep maintenance insomnia? I could go to bed at anytime after 8:30pm, and fall asleep within a few minutes. But 5 hours later I wake up, wide awake unable to get back to sleep.

More recently, I've been

- Going to bed at around 10:30pm, sleeping until 3:30am,
- Reading until 5:30am and then sleeping again
- Waking up between 7:30 and 8am (I haven't needed an alarm in the past 5+ years. I always wake up between 7:30 and 8am)

The problem I have is that sometimes, I can't get the 5am-7:30am sleep. I lie there absolutely shattered but not sleepy, if that makes sense? Almost like a jetlag.

The only idea I have is going to bed earlier, say 9:30 and sleeping until 2:30am. Which gives me more time then to get a 2 hour nap in before 7:30. I'm worried about the anti-social hours though. I mean that's over 10 hours in bed, 2-3 of which are spent reading in the middle of the night. I would much rather sleep from 10:30 to 6:30am.
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19-01-2021, 20:59   #242
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Maybe try sleep restriction, go to bed later 2 am and sleep to 7am and do that for a few weeks then slowly drag that back by lets say 30 min see how that goes for a couple of weeks. thats what a lot of the books recommend anyway.
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20-01-2021, 07:00   #243
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Why are you going to bed so early? Try going to bed maybe at 1230 every night and getting up at 730 for a week or so, don't go near your bed at any other times. This approach seems to be working for me.
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20-01-2021, 07:18   #244
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Why are you going to bed so early? Try going to bed maybe at 1230 every night and getting up at 730 for a week or so, don't go near your bed at any other times. This approach seems to be working for me.
I think I started going to bed earlier because if I went to bed at 12:30am I woke up at 5:30am. I lay awake for 2 hours and then I became really sleepy, just as I needed to get up for work at 7:30am.

I think I have been lying in bed awake too much over the past few years. Maybe the sleep restriction is the way to go. I'm just not sure whether to go to bed at 10:30pm and get up at 3:30am, or go to bed at 2:30am and get up at 7:30am as another poster suggested. I can't honestly say I've given either a proper go. How long should I try that for? 3 weeks is it?

Last edited by TP_CM; 20-01-2021 at 07:25.
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20-01-2021, 11:36   #245
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I think I started going to bed earlier because if I went to bed at 12:30am I woke up at 5:30am. I lay awake for 2 hours and then I became really sleepy, just as I needed to get up for work at 7:30am.

I think I have been lying in bed awake too much over the past few years. Maybe the sleep restriction is the way to go. I'm just not sure whether to go to bed at 10:30pm and get up at 3:30am, or go to bed at 2:30am and get up at 7:30am as another poster suggested. I can't honestly say I've given either a proper go. How long should I try that for? 3 weeks is it?
check out sleepio.com, you have to put in a UK postcode to sign up, I think I used SE7 or something.
You keep a sleep diary for 2 weeks, trying to go to bed and get up around the same times, and note how many times you woke up and for how long.
In week 3, like I'm on now, it tells you when to go to bed and when to get up.
I was getting around 4h 45m or so a night so it gave me the times of 0115 to 0630 to go to bed and get up at.
The last 3 nights of this I've been asleep nearly the whole time I've been in bed those hours, and I actually really look forward to going to bed as I can put my head down and I just knock out. This is unprecedented for me.
I have to do this till Sunday then I'll be given the next steps, maybe it will expand my hours in bed. It's a 6 week course in total but I wouldn't bother trying unless you're fully committed. I have cut out alcohol completely and made some other changes so I can do this.

Lying in bed anxious and writhing is the worst thing you can do, I've realised, as you'll associate bed with unpleasantness, you're better off being up.
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20-01-2021, 14:29   #246
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[QUOTE=

Lying in bed anxious and writhing is the worst thing you can do, I've realised, as you'll associate bed with unpleasantness, you're better off being up.[/QUOTE]

Ill second this, bed is for sleep and sex and thats it, no watching movies, leave your phone outside the room and get out of bed if you can't sleep aster 15 or 20 min. Our brains are great at making associations conscious or other and if you are lying there tortured rolling around for hours your brain will associate your bed with that torture. You need to break that association and try to stop worrying about sleep. If I cant sleep now I get up go to the living room and lie down on the couch listen to an audio book and just say to myself hey its not the end of the world, ill get through tomorrow and life goes on. I wasn't always like this id lie on the couch giving out looking at the clock and counting how many hours left I have to sleep etc. Get rid of clocks, never mind the time and try not to care if you sleep or not as worrying about sleep because you cant sleep will prevent you from sleeping.
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21-01-2021, 07:39   #247
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Excellent tips there, Tar. Ref: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...38&postcount=1
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21-01-2021, 07:59   #248
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All useful tips, although I disagree with the notion that adults need 8 hours etc and think that tip can actually cause more harm than good if people are worried if they don't aren't getting 8 hours. There have been plenty of studies and we are all different. Margaret thatcher slept for 4 hours every night for her entire working adult life, I personally feel great if I can get 6 hours. Quality of sleep is much more important than quantity. We constantly drift through different sleep cycles throughout the night and the deep sleep part of this is the most important and restorative, I have often had a bad nights sleep where I know I fell asleep and I know I was dreaming but I also feel that I didn't get any of the important deep restorative sleep. So that said we don't all need 8 hours and in fact 8 hours may be oversleeping for some.
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21-01-2021, 08:17   #249
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All useful tips, although I disagree with the notion that adults need 8 hours etc and think that tip can actually cause more harm than good if people are worried if they don't aren't getting 8 hours. There have been plenty of studies and we are all different. Margaret thatcher slept for 4 hours every night for her entire working adult life, I personally feel great if I can get 6 hours. Quality of sleep is much more important than quantity. We constantly drift through different sleep cycles throughout the night and the deep sleep part of this is the most important and restorative, I have often had a bad nights sleep where I know I fell asleep and I know I was dreaming but I also feel that I didn't get any of the important deep restorative sleep. So that said we don't all need 8 hours and in fact 8 hours may be oversleeping for some.
Hi olestoepoke. Good point. I too feel fine with 6h.
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21-01-2021, 08:34   #250
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So, strange thing last night. I was all set to get up at 3:30am after a 5 hour sleep. So I fall asleep within a few minutes at about 10:30pm but our little one wakes me up at 2am after a nightmare she's had. We get that sorted within 20 minutes and she's back to sleep. I go back to bed (about 2:30am) and after 15 minutes I'm sleeping solid until 8am. I feel like setting an alarm for 2am tonight!
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21-01-2021, 08:38   #251
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Mirtazapine is the only thing that works for me.
Stilnoct has no effect.
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21-01-2021, 08:57   #252
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Mirtazapine is the only thing that works for me.
Stilnoct has no effect.
I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.
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21-01-2021, 08:59   #253
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Originally Posted by olestoepoke View Post
I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.
Stilnoct work well for me but i usually wake up after 1 or 2 hours.
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21-01-2021, 09:05   #254
igCorcaigh
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Originally Posted by olestoepoke View Post
I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.
Unfortunately melatonin is not available from GPs. And not allowed to be sold as a supplement.

I did source it online a few years back, and found it effective.

I find it very hard to establish a stable sleep pattern.
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21-01-2021, 14:29   #255
Worztron
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Re: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...38&postcount=1

@Tar - I'd also add, expose yourself to sunlight in the early morn if possible - helps with your circadian rhythm.
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