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Insomnia?/Tips for good sleep

12346

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Mirtazapine is the only thing that works for me.
    Stilnoct has no effect.

    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭HBC08


    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.

    Stilnoct work well for me but i usually wake up after 1 or 2 hours.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.

    Unfortunately melatonin is not available from GPs. And not allowed to be sold as a supplement.

    I did source it online a few years back, and found it effective.

    I find it very hard to establish a stable sleep pattern.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Re: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51810738&postcount=1

    @Tar - I'd also add, expose yourself to sunlight in the early morn if possible - helps with your circadian rhythm.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Fathom wrote: »
    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.

    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.
    Something else occurs when reading this thread. Individual differences. We are not all the same. Sleep patterns may vary. What works for most of us, may not work for all of us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Something else occurs when reading this thread. Individual differences. We are not all the same. Sleep patterns may vary. What works for most of us, may not work for all of us.

    Thats exactly right, you need to find what works best for you. That said there are general changes you can make that will certainly help. Eat healthy, exercise more and establish a routine and stick to it. I get out of bed every morning at 7 no matter what happens, If I have a rough night and get to sleep at 4 am I still get up at 7am. Watched an interesting Ted Talk recently by a sleep specialist where he said you should be cool in bed, the coolest our body temp drops is when we sleep and we need to facilitate this not by freezing but it should be comfortably cool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MuIMqhT8DM

    He highlights how detrimental to your health it can be when you suffer from long term sleep problems.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Thats exactly right, you need to find what works best for you.
    Anecdotal, but my best friend would agree. She sleeps when needed. If wakes up in wee hours. Does not fight it. Gets up and does something. Lids get heavy. Goes back to sleep. Feels OK mornings.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Anecdotal, but my best friend would agree. She sleeps when needed. If wakes up in wee hours. Does not fight it. Gets up and does something. Lids get heavy. Goes back to sleep. Feels OK mornings.

    As opposed to clock watching and worrying about not sleeping and not being able to sleep because you're worrying about sleep. I trained and prepared for almost 2 years to run the NYC marathon a few years ago. Not one seconds sleep did I get the night before min what they call 'event insomnia'. lay there telling myself I must sleep , I need to sleep, its a big day tomorrow etc. No good, the attitude your friend has is what anyone with insomnia should strive for. Who cares if I dont sleep, ill get through tomorrow anyway. And I did, I finished the marathon after zero sleep the night before, albeit slightly above my target time.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    'event insomnia'
    I can identify. Used to be in a competitive sport. Nights before playoffs. Sleep difficult to achieve. No matter what coach said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Fathom wrote: »
    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.

    +1

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Hi Tar. I'd also mention reducing exposure to blue light in the hour before bed and using BL filters.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.

    You get zero sleep some nights? As in no sleep at all?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Worztron wrote: »
    You get zero sleep some nights? As in no sleep at all?

    I once went 3 nights with zero sleep when my problem was at its worse. Often have nights now with zero sleep.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    I once went 3 nights with zero sleep when my problem was at its worse. Often have nights now with zero sleep.
    Yo olestoepoke. The next time you see your GP. Would this be something you should bring up?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Yo olestoepoke. The next time you see your GP. Would this be something you should bring up?

    What would be the point? He would prescribe medication. I know what the problem was, stress. We had a death in the family and I was taking part in professional exams so my stress levels were through the roof. I've made several changes and am sleeping a lot better now most of the time.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    I know what the problem was, stress. We had a death in the family and I was taking part in professional exams so my stress levels were through the roof.
    Understandable. Apologies. My mistake.


    I've made several changes and am sleeping a lot better now most of the time.
    Good to hear.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Worztron wrote: »
    Hi Tar. I'd also mention reducing exposure to blue light in the hour before bed and using BL filters.

    I have a paperwhite Kindle, does that mess with melatonin levels does anyone know?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Fathom wrote: »
    Anecdotal, but my best friend would agree. She sleeps when needed. If wakes up in wee hours. Does not fight it. Gets up and does something. Lids get heavy. Goes back to sleep. Feels OK mornings.

    The thing is - to get up and do something would require putting a light on - surely that would further reduce someones change of getting back to sleep. 🤔

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Worztron wrote: »
    The thing is - to get up and do something would require putting a light on - surely that would further reduce someones change of getting back to sleep. 🤔

    Thats a good point and in a lot of the books on sleep problems they recommend you use a small flashlight to make your way around. It's a small issue really as the main thing is that you get up and do not stay there tormented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MuIMqhT8DM

    He highlights how detrimental to your health it can be when you suffer from long term sleep problems.

    Matt Walker: [on sleep] "Regularity is king."

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Thats a good point and in a lot of the books on sleep problems they recommend you use a small flashlight to make your way around. It's a small issue really as the main thing is that you get up and do not stay there tormented.

    A torch sounds like just the ticket.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    TP_CM wrote: »
    I have a paperwhite Kindle, does that mess with melatonin levels does anyone know?

    I would think so, yes.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    I once went 3 nights with zero sleep when my problem was at its worse. Often have nights now with zero sleep.

    I just cannot imagine getting zero sleep at all for a night. At least your sleep pattern is good now.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MuIMqhT8DM

    He highlights how detrimental to your health it can be when you suffer from long term sleep problems.

    I've seen many of Matt Walkers videos. Very educational and a likeable guy to boot.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Worztron wrote: »
    I just cannot imagine getting zero sleep at all for a night. At least your sleep pattern is good now.

    How is this possible in an insomnia thread?! :o
    haha really only kidding, but honestly - that's me at least twice a month, no sleep at all for two or almost three days at a time.

    It's really really bad for us, sleep is so essential for brain health, and of course mental health in general.
    Grand for the first 24, almost get a buzz from the second wind of awakeness, but it leaves me floored for a week after.

    Obviously doesn't help the circadian rhythm, at all. I do the same as other posters, I'll get up and do something, can't lie in bed or I spiral massively into "I'll never sleep again" thinking :P



    On the torch thing, you know those headlamps for walking/working?

    They often have a red light on the back of them. This is a good option for nighttime wakers who don't want the brightness of lamps (especially blue LEDs which mimic daylight so well.
    Red light will affect your circadian rhythm less, by not affecting melatonin production as much as 'bluer' lights afaik


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    lucalux wrote: »
    How is this possible in an insomnia thread?! :o
    haha really only kidding, but honestly - that's me at least twice a month, no sleep at all for two or almost three days at a time.

    It's really really bad for us, sleep is so essential for brain health, and of course mental health in general.
    Grand for the first 24, almost get a buzz from the second wind of awakeness, but it leaves me floored for a week after.

    Obviously doesn't help the circadian rhythm, at all. I do the same as other posters, I'll get up and do something, can't lie in bed or I spiral massively into "I'll never sleep again" thinking :P

    On the torch thing, you know those headlamps for walking/working?

    They often have a red light on the back of them. This is a good option for nighttime wakers who don't want the brightness of lamps (especially blue LEDs which mimic daylight so well.
    Red light will affect your circadian rhythm less, by not affecting melatonin production as much as 'bluer' lights afaik

    Hi lucalux. Good tip there re light colors. Sleep is even more vital for our bodies.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    The light from screen of a smart phone is sufficient to get about. We also keep Salt lamps on in hall and kitchen so can move about/make tea without putting on main lights.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    lucalux wrote: »
    How is this possible in an insomnia thread?! :o
    haha really only kidding, but honestly - that's me at least twice a month, no sleep at all for two or almost three days at a time.

    It's really really bad for us, sleep is so essential for brain health, and of course mental health in general.
    Grand for the first 24, almost get a buzz from the second wind of awakeness, but it leaves me floored for a week after.

    Obviously doesn't help the circadian rhythm, at all. I do the same as other posters, I'll get up and do something, can't lie in bed or I spiral massively into "I'll never sleep again" thinking :P



    On the torch thing, you know those headlamps for walking/working?

    They often have a red light on the back of them. This is a good option for nighttime wakers who don't want the brightness of lamps (especially blue LEDs which mimic daylight so well.
    Red light will affect your circadian rhythm less, by not affecting melatonin production as much as 'bluer' lights afaik

    It's difficult to explain to someone that has never experienced what it its like after 2 or 3 days without sleep. For me its a state of confusion, cant string thoughts together in my mind. Every sound is amplified and annoys you, your mood is terrible and everyone is annoying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭lucalux


    It's difficult to explain to someone that has never experienced what it its like after 2 or 3 days without sleep. For me its a state of confusion, cant string thoughts together in my mind. Every sound is amplified and annoys you, your mood is terrible and everyone is annoying.

    Agreed, it's debilitating in a very real way. I get about 60 points stupider on the IQ scale I'd guess.

    Affects mood, relationships, work, and tbh personality, if it goes on long enough too.
    Irritable people are not themselves at all at all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,494 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    I bought melatonin (abroad) but it didn’t help at all. I use valerian-from a herbalist. I find it fantastic. Stress is my biggest trigger for disturbed sleep. I try to walk everyday and write stuff down about what’s stressing me out.

    Can melatonin be bought in Ireland OTC?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,020 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Can melatonin be bought in Ireland OTC?

    No unfortunately ou need a prescription from your Doctor here for it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    lucalux wrote: »
    Affects mood, relationships, work, and tbh personality, if it goes on long enough too.
    Irritable people are not themselves at all at all
    Several sleep deprivation studies suggest problems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    What are some ideas for reading material/puzzles if someone has to get up after waking and not being able to get back asleep for about 30 minutes? I know it's suggested to go to another room and read in a dim light - I'm not sure about what to read though? Also - would word search puzzles be good? They're not too stimulating so may be alright?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,135 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Worztron wrote: »
    What are some ideas for reading material/puzzles if someone has to get up after waking and not being able to get back asleep for about 30 minutes? I know it's suggested to go to another room and read in a dim light - I'm not sure about what to read though? Also - would word search puzzles be good? They're not too stimulating so may be alright?

    Does it have to be reading based? Listening to a short chapter of an audiobook or bbc sounds book of the week episode or a podcast might be less stimulating but work as a relax reset.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭Worztron


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Does it have to be reading based? Listening to a short chapter of an audiobook or bbc sounds book of the week episode or a podcast might be less stimulating but work as a relax reset.

    Good point there, odyssey06.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Does it have to be reading based? Listening to a short chapter of an audiobook or bbc sounds book of the week episode or a podcast might be less stimulating but work as a relax reset.

    I like audio books personally and YouTube is full of them. Richard Dawkins has a great voice that usually puts me to sleep. Cant sleep, get out of bed after 20 or so min then I go to the couch downstairs and put on an audiobook.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    Watch Ireland play?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,135 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I like audio books personally and YouTube is full of them. Richard Dawkins has a great voice that usually puts me to sleep. Cant sleep, get out of bed after 20 or so min then I go to the couch downstairs and put on an audiobook.

    Yeah you need to find a calm and composed voice that works for you.
    Carl Sagan is very good too.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    I think having a time when phones, tablets etc are switched off is very important. And get them out of your bedroom!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Does it have to be reading based? Listening to a short chapter of an audiobook or bbc sounds book of the week episode or a podcast might be less stimulating but work as a relax reset.

    I love listening to podcasts or audio lectures as I go to sleep.
    Music seems to stimulate me more, even if it's "relaxing" music (does not work for me).

    Most podcasts though, particularly the American ones, can be very annoying, and people laugh way too much.
    BBC In Our Time is OK.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Yeah you need to find a calm and composed voice that works for you.
    Carl Sagan is very good too.

    Martin Rees is lovely to listen to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭bassy


    Watch Ireland play?

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Has anyone tried the 45 minute sleepcasts on Headspace? I'm absolutely loving those at the moment when I wake up at night.


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    TP_CM wrote: »
    Has anyone tried the 45 minute sleepcasts on Headspace? I'm absolutely loving those at the moment when I wake up at night.
    Sleep podcasts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Fathom wrote: »
    Sleep podcasts?

    Yes here is their description
    Headspace wrote:
    Similar to bedtime stories, sleepcasts take you on an audio-guided tour of a dreamy environment, whether that’s a Californian desert at night or a beautifully tranquil lakeside lodge.

    Sleepcasts vary in length, from 45-55 minutes. Each one begins with a “wind down,” which could be a meditation exercise, or even a simple breathing technique, followed by a narrated tour of a sleepy landscape, complete with a soundtrack that evokes that place, to create a soothing, immersive experience.

    Unique to Headspace’s sleepcasts, these night-time journeys are remixed each night, meaning that experience is slightly different each time you listen. That way, you can’t memorize the narrative, and use it to track the passage of time, something we found could cause anxiety for restless sleepers. Whatever bedtime story appeals, the blend of sound and visualization helps to create the ideal conditions for healthy, restful sleep.

    One thing I like about them is that you can select how loud you want the ambiance to be in relation to the narrator. So I turn up the sounds of, say, the beach, or the lagoon, or the forest, or whatever environment they're walking me through so that the voice is audible but doesn't keep me awake.

    The problem I have recently when I wake at 4am is that my brain goes 100 mile an hour thinking about different things I have going on. I begin to over-analyse everything. These sleepcasts stop my brain from doing any thinking really, and also stops me thinking about time passing.

    There was one about a train ride which was great. I started to dream about taking a train across Europe. It was a nice dream to have during level 5 restrictions.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    TP_CM wrote: »
    One thing I like about them is that you can select how loud you want the ambiance to be in relation to the narrator. So I turn up the sounds of, say, the beach, or the lagoon, or the forest, or whatever environment they're walking me through so that the voice is audible but doesn't keep me awake.
    Choices. Useful.


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