Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub · 27-11-2020 1:08am

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It occurs to me that everyone Trump has pardoned, or will pardon, probably has serious dirt on him. So Ghislaine Maxwell could well be next.

But if they do , they can be compelled to answer questions after a pardon. AS they can no longer incriminate themselves they can't hide behind the 5th.

It's why Stone got a commutation and not a pardon - It's so he can't be forced to talk.

Same thing will happen with Manafort - Commutation not Pardon..

Flynn doesn't know anything so he isn't a risk , but if he gives a Pardon/Get out of jail free card to the kids or anyone else they can be forced to spill the beans.

astrofool · 27-11-2020 1:18pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But if they do , they can be compelled to answer questions after a pardon. AS they can no longer incriminate themselves they can't hide behind the 5th.

It's why Stone got a commutation and not a pardon - It's so he can't be forced to talk.

Same thing will happen with Manafort - Commutation not Pardon..

Flynn doesn't know anything so he isn't a risk , but if he gives a Pardon/Get out of jail free card to the kids or anyone else they can be forced to spill the beans.

What would happen if Biden pardoned Stone? Would he then be compelled to talk?

Quin_Dub · 27-11-2020 1:26pm

astrofool wrote: »

What would happen if Biden pardoned Stone? Would he then be compelled to talk?

Interesting thought , but not sure of the legal view on that.

But Stone was absolutely categorically given a Commutation instead of a Pardon specifically to keep him quiet.

I expect Manafort will get the same treatment.

martingriff · 27-11-2020 3:32pm

I have not seen his interview but did Trump actually say he will leave the White House once the Electoral College meet?

1. Does he actually believe they will go against the result?

2. Does that mean he is just leaving or quitting in December (that is when they meet right?)?

3. Will pense actually get his wish and be Presedient for a bit?

Quin_Dub · 27-11-2020 3:42pm

martingriff wrote: »

I have not seen his interview but did Trump actually say he will leave the White House once the Electoral College meet?

1. Does he actually believe they will go against the result?

2. Does that mean he is just leaving or quitting in December (that is when they meet right?)?

3. Will pense actually get his wish and be Presedient for a bit?

1 - No , he doesn't and never did, it's part narcissism and part Grift.

2 - Bit of both I suspect - He will almost certainly bail-out of the Washington and head for Mar-a-Lago within days of the EC vote (December 12th) and likely never return.

3 - I really can't see Pence going for it , He fancies his chances at the big chair in the future. Doing a shuffle with Trump just to give him a pardon would destroy his already slim chances . He would be utterly toxic to Democrat and Independent voters after that (even more than he already is).

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-11-2020 3:44pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

1 - No , he doesn't and never did, it's part narcissism and part Grift.

2 - Bit of both I suspect - He will almost certainly bail-out of the Washington and head for Mar-a-Lago within days of the EC vote (December 12th) and likely never return.

3 - I really can't see Pence going for it , He fancies his chances at the big chair in the future. Doing a shuffle with Trump just to give him a pardon would destroy his already slim chances . He would be utterly toxic to Democrat and Independent voters after that (even more than he already is).

On the 3rd point, if Trump were to just quit then Pence would have no choice and have to become president?

Saying that if he were to run in the future he could slate Trump from on high and tell the world Trump was terrible but his hands were tied?

Quin_Dub · 27-11-2020 4:14pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

On the 3rd point, if Trump were to just quit then Pence would have no choice and have to become president?

Saying that if he were to run in the future he could slate Trump from on high and tell the world Trump was terrible but his hands were tied?

Yes ,he does , but he doesn't have to give him the pardon that Trump might have thought was part of the deal.

robinph · 27-11-2020 4:36pm

martingriff wrote: »

I have not seen his interview but did Trump actually say he will leave the White House once the Electoral College meet?

1. Does he actually believe they will go against the result?

2. Does that mean he is just leaving or quitting in December (that is when they meet right?)?

3. Will pense actually get his wish and be Presedient for a bit?

He said he'd leave the White House, once the EC have made their vote, but there was nothing specified in the answer about if that was in December or January and there was nothing implied in the question about that either... Just that he'd accept the results of the EC vote.

He separately was asked if he'd attend the inauguration and said that he'd already decided what he was going to do, but didn't give any indication as to if that was rant on Twitter, play golf, sulk in Florida or be a civilised human being and act like a president is expected to for the first time in his life.

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 5:22pm

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332352538855747584

This must be one his worst tweets in his long line of bad tweets.

He's making the accusations of fraud so the burden of proof is with him not President Elect Biden.

Really unreal what's happening.

Zubeneschamali · 27-11-2020 5:33pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Really unreal what's happening.

Whats happening is Trump lost and is now humiliating himself, not at all surprising.

The system doesn't care if Trump concedes, yells a lot or Tweets about fraud. The transition has started, and Trump is out in January, Biden is in no matter what Trump says or does.

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 5:39pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Whats happening is Trump lost and is now humiliating himself, not at all surprising.

The system doesn't care if Trump concedes, yells a lot or Tweets about fraud. The transition has started, and Trump is out in January, Biden is in no matter what Trump says or does.

I know there's nothing he can do and he's gone but I really am amazed at his behaviour.

It seems to be getting worse and his press outing yesterday was a disgrace.

froog · 27-11-2020 6:03pm

secret US, saudi and israel meetings last week and now;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/mohsen-fakhrizadeh-iranian-nuclear-scientist-reportedly-shot-dead-near-tehran

An Iranian nuclear scientist described as the guru of Iran’s nuclear programme has been gunned down in the street in a town near Tehran.

Mohsen Fakhrizadeh was ambushed in the town of Absard, about 40 miles east of Tehran. Four assailants opened fire after witnesses heard an explosion. Efforts to resuscitate Fakhrizadeh failed. His bodyguard was wounded.

aloyisious · 27-11-2020 6:15pm

RTE radio news ran a short audio clip today of Trump losing it with [I presume] a reporter for asking him a question reminding the reporter "I'm the president, how dare you ask me that, I'm the president" or words to that effect. I googled for info and found the last time Trump lost it with a reporter was back in April. Did anyone see a clip of Trump losing his temper with a questioner at an event yesterday?

Roanmore · 27-11-2020 6:25pm

aloyisious wrote: »

RTE radio news ran a short audio clip today of Trump losing it with [I presume] a reporter for asking him a question reminding the reporter "I'm the president, how dare you ask me that, I'm the president" or words to that effect. I googled for info and found the last time Trump lost it with a reporter was back in April. Did anyone see a clip of Trump losing his temper with a questioner at an event yesterday?

Yeah, Virgin Media News and CNN both showed it. He then went on to the next question which was about leaving the White House.

looksee · 27-11-2020 6:26pm

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/11/26/trump-thanksgiving-inauguration-biden-question-vpx.cnn

just more of the usual childish stuff, appropriately sitting behind that tiny desk in the tiny chair!

Carfacemandog · 27-11-2020 6:31pm

robinph wrote: »

He said he'd leave the White House, once the EC have made their vote, but there was nothing specified in the answer about if that was in December or January and there was nothing implied in the question about that either... Just that he'd accept the results of the EC vote.

I'm amazed how people are just accepting this for perhaps the most predictable man in the face of the planet. Here's a spoiler: he won't.

Brussels Sprout · 27-11-2020 6:36pm

murpho999 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332352538855747584

This must be one his worst tweets in his long line of bad tweets.

He's making the accusations of fraud so the burden of proof is with him not President Elect Biden.

Really unreal what's happening.

Notice the dog whistle too in singling out those 4 cities

Frank Bullitt · 27-11-2020 8:07pm

He looks like he is sitting an exam.

pixelburp · 27-11-2020 9:51pm

I don't understand why this wasn't done at the Resolute desk? Seems curiously half assed for a man who likes to project big gestures of power at the White House ( the executive order signings, talking on front of the running helicopter etc)

looksee · 27-11-2020 10:14pm

Apparently the Oval Office is not suitable for press briefings, there isn't really suitable space, but he could have been in the press briefing room? Who knows.

Sonics2k · 27-11-2020 11:12pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't understand why this wasn't done at the Resolute desk? Seems curiously half assed for a man who likes to project big gestures of power at the White House ( the executive order signings, talking on front of the running helicopter etc)

He probably thinks that sitting at a smaller desk makes him look bigger.

kowloon · 27-11-2020 11:23pm

Too busy shredding documents in the other rooms.

Windmill100000 · 27-11-2020 11:40pm

He is such a bad loser. No proof at all of fraid, but uses every opportunity to say he has loads of it. How can anyone support this pos I will never know.

28-11-2020 12:01am

Gintonious wrote: »

He looks like he is sitting an exam.

Going by the interview he failed it.

Have an image in my head of them trying to get the copper wire, pipes and anything not nailed down out of the Whitehouse before the end of January.

Christy42 · 28-11-2020 2:02am

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I'm amazed how people are just accepting this for perhaps the most predictable man in the face of the planet. Here's a spoiler: he won't.

He said himself he won't accept the EC vote when they go for Biden. He will leave the white House though. Presumably because he doesn't want to be taken by security.

Igotadose · 28-11-2020 11:03am

Windmill100000 wrote: »

He is such a bad loser. No proof at all of fraid, but uses every opportunity to say he has loads of it. How can anyone support this pos I will never know.

It's the Birtherism playbook to a T. Falling back on old strategies.

Tell me how · 28-11-2020 12:44pm

Gintonious wrote: »

He looks like he is sitting an exam.

Would love to know who managed that press appearance. The tiny table and chair, the visible microphone stand, the absence of anyone else in the shot.

Either someone was making a point, or it's a similar fiasco in presentation to the press conference from a landscaping companies parking lot.

Leroy42 · 28-11-2020 1:37pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Would love to know who managed that press appearance. The tiny table and chair, the visible microphone stand, the absence of anyone else in the shot.

Either someone was making a point, or it's a similar fiasco in presentation to the press conference from a landscaping companies parking lot.

Because any actual professionals have long since departed. All that is left as sciophants, yes men, willing to agree with Trump. Either through a real belief in Trump or a fear or getting fired.

He fires anyone that disagrees with him, so it is no surprise that only those willing to accept anything are left. No serious professional would last in such an environment.

The only message being sent is that this is a completely incompetent administration, as has been evident from pretty much Day 1

amandstu · 28-11-2020 2:25pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Would love to know who managed that press appearance. The tiny table and chair, the visible microphone stand, the absence of anyone else in the shot.

Either someone was making a point, or it's a similar fiasco in presentation to the press conference from a landscaping companies parking lot.

Talking about the parking lot presentation ,there is an amusing skit on the BBC about what really happened behind the scenes.
It was just a case of tangled wires , mixed metaphors and misheard exhortations after all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000p8yf

15 minutes but good fun.

Agree with Leroy regarding the hollowing out of common sense and professionalism- it is a nice representative picture.

Windmill100000 · 28-11-2020 2:26pm

The chair and desk. Is that some joke and he didn't realise it?

amandstu · 28-11-2020 2:29pm

Windmill100000 wrote: »

The chair and desk. Is that some joke and he didn't realise it?

Maybe it was the Ice Queen Melania . She is a wizz at interior design .

looksee · 28-11-2020 4:04pm

You'd almost begin to think there was a bit of subversion, even sabotage going on. Or a bit of revenge. Or maybe there is just no one left in the White House with even a mite of cop-on.

amandstu · 28-11-2020 4:10pm

looksee wrote: »

You'd almost begin to think there was a bit of subversion, even sabotage going on. Or a bit of revenge. Or maybe there is just no one left in the White House with even a mite of cop-on.

Or is it just fortuitous and hilarious optics?

https://twitter.com/rudetuesday/status/1332214274454818816

He seemingly did the same in 2017

Gunmonkey · 28-11-2020 5:24pm

Could almost use the two pictures as a comparison:

-Donald Trump and all his supporters in the White House in 2017

-Donald Trump and all his supporters in the White House in 2020

Frank Bullitt · 28-11-2020 9:03pm

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332773351018942465

Fully turned on Fox now. Burning bridges as quick as possible.

EltonJohn69 · 28-11-2020 9:18pm

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332773351018942465

Fully turned on Fox now. Burning bridges as quick as possible.

His love affair with the Fox and friends morning show was one of the great love affairs.

banie01 · 28-11-2020 9:32pm

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332773351018942465

Fully turned on Fox now. Burning bridges as quick as possible.

Trumpist's and other right wingers are abandoning Fox and even Twitter for alternative safe spaces

It's mad, Democrats, leftists and most same people were laughed at for their outrage at Trump's lunacy and actions.
Trumpist's boast about tasting libtard tears, but when they lose?
When votes go against them?
When the courts flow the votes?
When a return to American values and hegemony is presented?

Rather than debate? It's screaming confrontation!
Rather than engage on policy, politics or practice? It's screaming denial!
When Facts and Truth are required by media outlets, and narratives questioned looking for proof?

They run off to Parler, to OANN and other right wing propaganda channels.
Moving to an echo chamber and completely excluding other views rather than actually refuting them.

Absolute powder keg of misanthropic, racist, fascist hate.
That is given credence by "Presidential" support!
Obama referred to white men being giving victim status by the GOP...
It's far worse, they are being portrayed as exploited, and abandoned...
Yet their Saviour?
Is the party responsible for much of that in the 1st place...?

Absolutely mental!

Cody montana · 28-11-2020 9:37pm

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332773351018942465

Fully turned on Fox now. Burning bridges as quick as possible.

Hating on Fox?
Trump is a liberal.

pixelburp · 28-11-2020 10:22pm

Time and time again, evidence points to how American conservatives and right wingers are more easily "triggered" and resistant to ideological pushback than the "liberal" contingent they so relish putting the boot into. Reading a Trump tweet spitting at Fox for having the gall to even question Dear Leader, rather than indulge in armchair authoritarianism, is as perverse as it is amusing.

abff · 28-11-2020 11:22pm

I think I’ve kind of figured it out. If you want to know what’s the latest scam thought up by Trump and his acolytes, just listen to what they are accusing their opponents of doing. Can it really be that simple?

Capt'n Midnight · 28-11-2020 11:46pm

abff wrote: »

I think I’ve kind of figured it out. If you want to know what’s the latest scam thought up by Trump and his acolytes, just listen to what they are accusing their opponents of doing. Can it really be that simple?

Yes. It means they can try whataboutery as a 'defence'.

Every accusation is an admission.

What.Now · 29-11-2020 12:11am

abff wrote: »

I think I’ve kind of figured it out. If you want to know what’s the latest scam thought up by Trump and his acolytes, just listen to what they are accusing their opponents of doing. Can it really be that simple?

It is that simple. Right from the start of the previous election. Oh look over there Crooked Hillary

aloyisious · 29-11-2020 12:28am

Gotta admit this, for attention grabbing, Trump's latest stunt will probably get an encore from his fan base. "Biden must prove he got 80 Million votes before entering the White House".

I'd like the USSC to tell his legal people they must provide witness statements from at least 5,000 of the 28,000 voters they claim sent in fraudulent postal votes before mid-day on Tuesday next to support their claim before the court hears their latest case against the vote result.

StringerBell · 29-11-2020 1:03am

Fox are now firmly his competition in his future career. They are the largest MSM organisation out there, useful to him while in office but when he is going up against them for ratings in the near future it's only obvious to him to tear them apart now.

Tell me how · 29-11-2020 6:11am

StringerBell wrote: »

Fox are now firmly his competition in his future career. They are the largest MSM organisation out there, useful to him while in office but when he is going up against them for ratings in the near future it's only obvious to him to tear them apart now.

The district attorneys of New York, Maryland and Washington would beg to differ.

ancapailldorcha · 29-11-2020 12:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Time and time again, evidence points to how American conservatives and right wingers are more easily "triggered" and resistant to ideological pushback than the "liberal" contingent they so relish putting the boot into. Reading a Trump tweet spitting at Fox for having the gall to even question Dear Leader, rather than indulge in armchair authoritarianism, is as perverse as it is amusing.

The thing is that Conservatives tend to judge people as people whereas liberals* judge people by and large by their actions. Of course there are exceptions to this general rule but by and large it holds true.

It's why the American right who fulminated against Bill Clinton for his adultery are happy to fawn over Trump in spite of, or even because of his licentious activity. Same for Christians. They worship a deity who was notoriously kind to children and they're delighted that their champion is caging them. Trump is one of them so they don't care what he does. To them, he is "good".

It's the standard "Us" and "Them" dichotomy. Conservatism exists to preserve and concentrate power in the hands of a chosen few and is therefore an anti-democratic ideology. The one cardinal sin that Conservatives cannot abide or tolerate is the questioning of the ordained order or, even worse, advocating change. Conservatism has had to give ground over the centuries to trade unions for workers' rights and to liberals for the vote. They cannot remove the vote so they pervert the voting process as much as they can. In Europe, one might use the terms "Aristocracy" and the "Proletariat". The former despise the latter.

This begs the question why the latter therefore vote for the former. The answer is the same dichotomy played out with different labels, ie people hating immigrants, those who claim welfare, trade unionists, liberals, etc. The only line that Trump can't cross is to question the natural order as laid out by Conservatism. Since he is of the elite, he simply won't do this. Bill Gates operates numerous philanthropic enterprises so he is an acceptable target for vitriol. The poor are poor because they deserve it while the rich are the best, the brightest and the most hard working. The ultimate refutation of this maxim is someone like AOC who worked her way up without an old boys' network, inherited wealth or handouts. A portion of the white working class cannot bear to see someone like her get ahead while the party they vote for has been stripping them of their wealth, opportunities and dignity for generations.

Goodness knows the Democrats are a long, long way off being perfect but at least they somewhat resemble their namesake. The Republican party hasn't the merest modicum of Republicanism about it. It has more in common with a third world despotic dictator's entourage than a modern political party.

*Used here in the English sense as opposed to the odd American definition which equates to not being on the far right.

Igotadose · 29-11-2020 1:41pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

<snip good thoughts>

This begs the question why the latter therefore vote for the former. The answer is the same dichotomy played out with different labels, ie people hating immigrants, those who claim welfare, trade unionists, liberals, etc. The only line that Trump can't cross is to question the natural order as laid out by Conservatism. Since he is of the elite, he simply won't do this. Bill Gates operates numerous philanthropic enterprises so he is an acceptable target for vitriol.

<snip more good thoughts}

And yet, Bill Gates is the ultimate conservative ideal. Modest upbringing (father a lawyer). College dropout working out of his dorm room. Mega-successful predatory capitalist. Genius-level intellect. And widely hated by Conservatives. Wouldn't they want their children to grow up like him?

Funny, not that long ago the Left hated Gates for his business practices, remember the MS antitrust suits? Now he's more of a hero due to his philanthropy, sourced from the benefits of long-term predatory capitalism and anti-free market behavior.

FD: ex-MS employee of +10 years experience. Fan of BillG since he left the company and is using his wealth for good. A lot of that I attribute to the influence of Melinda Gates, Bill was a tech bro before that was a thing.

prawnsambo · 29-11-2020 1:48pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's the standard "Us" and "Them" dichotomy. Conservatism exists to preserve and concentrate power in the hands of a chosen few and is therefore an anti-democratic ideology. The one cardinal sin that Conservatives cannot abide or tolerate is the questioning of the ordained order or, even worse, advocating change. Conservatism has had to give ground over the centuries to trade unions for workers' rights and to liberals for the vote. They cannot remove the vote so they pervert the voting process as much as they can. In Europe, one might use the terms "Aristocracy" and the "Proletariat". The former despise the latter.

And just to illustrate your point, along comes Jacob Rees-Mogg with this pearl of wisdom wherein he takes the mantle of monarch upon himself and the rest of the Tory government.

To be fair, he's being ratioed to death in the replies.

ancapailldorcha · 29-11-2020 2:06pm

Igotadose wrote: »

And yet, Bill Gates is the ultimate conservative ideal. Modest upbringing (father a lawyer). College dropout working out of his dorm room. Mega-successful predatory capitalist. Genius-level intellect. And widely hated by Conservatives. Wouldn't they want their children to grow up like him?

Funny, not that long ago the Left hated Gates for his business practices, remember the MS antitrust suits? Now he's more of a hero due to his philanthropy, sourced from the benefits of long-term predatory capitalism and anti-free market behavior.

FD: ex-MS employee of +10 years experience. Fan of BillG since he left the company and is using his wealth for good. A lot of that I attribute to the influence of Melinda Gates, Bill was a tech bro before that was a thing.

I disagree. He might have been had he kept himself and his wealth to himself and his family but he's been vocal about global issues like climate change and the importance of philanthropy. Climate change by its nature demands change which is what Conservatives abhor most. Any sort of giving money, especially to non-white people abroad is a huge no-no for many Conservatives.

Gates is no angel but the fact that he built himself a global name, company and fortune from nothing and now carries a lot of influence around the world. The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" line is intended to justify the elite's current position as it implies that that's the reason for their wealth. It's fine for a working class person to start a business and make some money as long as they go nowhere near the 1% club.

There's a reason why Trump and the American right despise Gates and this is likely it.

duploelabs · 29-11-2020 3:00pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I disagree. He might have been had he kept himself and his wealth to himself and his family but he's been vocal about global issues like climate change and the importance of philanthropy. Climate change by its nature demands change which is what Conservatives abhor most. Any sort of giving money, especially to non-white people abroad is a huge no-no for many Conservatives.

Gates is no angel but the fact that he built himself a global name, company and fortune from nothing and now carries a lot of influence around the world. The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" line is intended to justify the elite's current position as it implies that that's the reason for their wealth. It's fine for a working class person to start a business and make some money as long as they go nowhere near the 1% club.

There's a reason why Trump and the American right despise Gates and this is likely it.

To a lesser extent, AOC would fit into this catagory

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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