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A restoration tale (with pics)
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Day 24
Just getting the floor ready for a layer of glass and epoxy. Ordered new angle grinder and a few bits and bobs from Amazon so waiting for that. Also the weather is to close in again tonight so I'll shut up talking and post a couple of pics and a review video.
1. Overlap seam where port side seating was held in place. This is now redundant and I am cutting it out throughout the floor.
2. Little Aldi Dremmel and a batch of metal cutting disks that I got from Ebay for a few pence. This tool allows me to make very precise cuts without damaging the floor.
3. Using the cutter to remove the old overlap joints so that I am left with a flush floor that can be grinded back to clean grp.
4. Review video
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So a few more hull patches today, and then a sad moment. The old angle grinder I had been using was getting very hot lately and much weaker in terms of load resistance. Today, it just burnt out. A few major flashes and sparks followed by a substantial amount of smoke. The old tool was on loan from a mate. He's been made aware. Funeral mass and burial tomorrow followed by a trip to Amazon for this little beauty. Also won an Ebay auction tonight for a sweet little JCB router. It's a 1/4" model, almost new with box and accessories, €50 delivered.
RIP
I'll miss it.
But at least my router is now safe
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
Another great post
Put up a list of things you need to start finishing her, stuff you would look for if you were at a boat jumble and I will have a look and see what I have to help her get on the water.0 -
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Another great post
Put up a list of things you need to start finishing her, stuff you would look for if you were at a boat jumble and I will have a look and see what I have to help her get on the water.
Well Fergal, the plan roughly speaking is as follows.
1. Glass out the floor, fill all hull patches and fair them.
2. Add / repair stringers, need hardwood leats (1"x2" or near).
3. Repair / reinforce all topside grp damage.
4. Paint the exterior, underside and topside. I think I will go with toplac all round. Might start with a coat or two of epoxy.
5. Cable the boat, Not sure how boats are wired. I was thinking of a star/radial mix. Might create 1 or 2 light circuits and have individual switches on each light.
I need signal lights, switch panel etc (ebay).
6. Build a helm panel, I want to build a helm dash panel and mount it to the port side bulk head. This will house steering and electrics, it will be accessible from inside the cabin via a door in the bulkhead.
But before I build the panel, I need to know a bit about the steering system it will house as in dimensions etc. I have no clue as to what I will be using yet. I would like to use a single cable system so need to look into these and order one soon. I might try to reuse the old throttle cable and controls, new ones seem very expensive.
7. Build a galley on starboard and a cupboard on portside. I'll use simple builders merchants leats and WBP ply. Need to kit galley out with a stove and sink.
8. Build seating on deck. Need hardwood leats and will use marine ply.
9. Put down a floor, 18mm marine play.
10. Build a cabin door.
11. hardwood strakes, need to source and fit hardwood.
12. Gunwale fender rubber, need to source and fit. I am thinking of going with very oversized rubber here as it will create a wider toerail and make the overall appearance of the vessel a bit more substantial.
13. Need to sort out bow windows, god knows how
14. Need to sort out viser / windscreen. I an thinking of building a custom windscreen using a hardwood frame and fitted perspex, an up and over version that covers some of the deck and is suitable for my height.
15. Kit Out, if you can think of it, I probably need it. Definately need the following
- Fixtures and fittings, latches, locks etc
- Cabin interior, carpet, paint, seating foam and covers, what have you...
- SS Hinges
- SS Cleats
- SS grab rails (might go with wooden ones instead)
- SS eyes (for holding fenders)
- 12v horn
- Fenders
- Lights, port, starboard, bow, stern, interior lighting
- Fire extinguisher
- Batteries and heavy cabling
- Hooks, rope, anchor
This list is not exhaustive by any means. It's just all I can think of right now. There's still a ton of work to do.
EDIT: (knew I'd forget stuff)
Still have to sort out keels and glass them in. Don't know how I'm going to do that because it's an external repair that meets the underside gelcoat. Also I can't use matt (not with epoxy) so I need to use cloth and I'm not sure how well it wraps around tight angles.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
I have a 60's bow light and flag pole it's not 100% but looks ok if you want it
I also have two steering systems a rotary and a rack and pinion but not sure if the cable is long enough we see when the time comes.
The throttle cable you have will only fit the type of engine that was on the boat but I have some mercury ones if you need them, sometimes when you buy an engine you will get the controls and cables with it.
Lidl have some sun lounger cushions blue and white strips that might do for your seats
The carpet I use is the rubber back office carpet you can get cheep remnants from any shop.
I may also have a bow handle and cleats so hold off on buying them.
Is this the type of screen and cover your talking about.
http://roeboats.com/2011/06/02/finally-shes-ready-for-the-roadriver/0 -
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I have a 60's bow light and flag pole it's not 100% but looks ok if you want it
I also have two steering systems a rotary and a rack and pinion but not sure if the cable is long enough we see when the time comes.
The throttle cable you have will only fit the type of engine that was on the boat but I have some mercury ones if you need them, sometimes when you buy an engine you will get the controls and cables with it.
Lidl have some sun lounger cushions blue and white strips that might do for your seats The carpet I use is the rubber back office carpet you can get cheep remnants from any shop.
I may also have a bow handle and cleats so hold off on buying them.
Is this the type of screen and cover your talking about.
http://roeboats.com/2011/06/02/finally-shes-ready-for-the-roadriver/
Fergal, many many thanks for this. I am forever grateful to you for everything.
I will go with lights from Ebay cos they are so cheap and I can get a kit all in one.
re-Steering, Is there anyway I can start building the helm console without having the steering system or should I bite the bullet and buy a system now? To build the console I'll need to know sizes and ideally would need the system and the wheel in place for fitting / measuring.
Throttle cable - I'll leave until buying engine (could be years away)
Fergal, no, that screen and cover is too long. I'm only talking about a screen and cover of a foot or two, and it's merely a thought at this stage.
Flagpole bow handle and cleats might work a treat. If you come across them post a pic.0 -
Folks
Tell me, how do I go about glassing the hull timbers back into place?
I have the timbers dried out. I will cut out any rotten wood and full with epoxy or filler. I will then bolt the timbers back up to the hull underside. But then I need to glass these over. How do I do that?
I don't think woven coving will wrap around the toght corners and angles involved. If I do find a suitable cloth, Do I make the entire patch away from the job and then apply it or do I add layer by layer? Remember I will be working against gravity up under the boat.
The patch will be mated to the hull underside which is gelcoat, do I grind this away or lay the glass over it? Do I taper the patch back to the surface (how do I get it flush)?
This is the keel (two of them) that I will be working with)
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
These boats were made so they could dry out on a beach and could take a bit of a beating, you will be fine with your cloth and a few coats of resin. If you want to find out how strong it is coat a bit of scrap wood with cloth and a few coats of resin and when it's set beat it with a hammer 0 -
These boats were made so they could dry out on a beach and could take a bit of a beating, you will be fine with your cloth and a few coats of resin. If you want to find out how strong it is coat a bit of scrap wood with cloth and a few coats of resin and when it's set beat it with a hammer
Thanks F
I am a sucker for the overkill, especially when I have no experience at something. I just hope I get all the rot out of the dam timber, I don't want to seal in any more problems and I'm finding it literally impossible to get my hands on hardwood.
I have phoned a few joiners, stair makers etc and they said they would phone me back :cool:. Once that happens you can't really phone them again. Went to Brooks in Sligo, they have only large boards €200+ etc.
If anyone has any hardwood, (any scrap, off cuts, wnything) that they don't want, please let me know.0 -
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Got my hardwood sorted out. Many thanks to Ian at Hessions in Sligo (they make coffins). They have a fantastic workshop in Sligo, a fascinating place. Got a few nice pieces of oak for stringers and strakes.
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Day 25 (Stringer theory)
A box arrived from Amazon this morning with sanding belts, sanding wheels, a pack of dust masks and my new Bosch angle grinder. I got a few fine hours of weather this evening so I went out to the to try out the new toy . It's a little beast let me tell you, infact using those sanding disks on a grinder is dangerous as you have to remove the guard. I already have a 1" gouge in my finger from learning this the hard way last week. Anyhow it works great. Remember that router that I bought on Ebay last week, well that fell through as the seller turned out to be a tosser so a quick paypal resolution centre case and I got my money back. So I'm still shopping for a router.
I started to grind the boat floor tonight and along with this, I decided to do some exploration drilling of the remaining stringers. Guess what . . .they are all saturated and rotten. I am taking them all up. I am a little worried about the main centre stringer. What is the architecture of the boat in relation to it and the keel underneath it? Having taken up the centre stringer, I seem to be left with a trench with a very rough hard substance in the bottom of it, is this the top of my keel? or is there a dual floor or what? Have a look at the videos and you'll see what I mean.
1. Let me show you around
2. Stringers
(appologies for the sniffles, I think that vast quantities of grp dust was getting to me)
3. More stringers
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Day 26
Bit of a lazy day. I took the dog for a spin down to Athlone and picked me up a great little bargain - see photo #1. It's an AEG 18v cordless drill, comes as a kit with a 100pc tool set, 2 NiCad batteries and a charger all in a good carry case. €56, I kid you not. If you want one, see this thread. Bear in mind the make, AEG is a pro label, it's part of Millwaukee, really nice kit. On the way home, I stopped off at Gillooly's joinery in Roscommon as I noticed the door was open. Managed to get myself a few nice pieces of mahogany for €12. Also got some petrol in Knockcroghery for €143.9. A real thrifty day
I've been using up all my scraps over the past two evenings to make me a couple of decent chocs / stands for the boat. Up until now, I have had the boat resting on a series of cross timbers built up. That's all very well but what if you need to move them, say to access the hull underside right where the choc is? In my case I have to move about 30 pieces of timber. So a great way to use up all my scraps and offcuts was to build a couple of decent strong chocs. They work well.
I have let the central string channel dry out over the past couple of days and it has dried really well. This hints that the central keel may be good, if the keel was rotten and soaked, it would take that channel ages to dry - wouldn't it? I'm hoping I don't have to remove the dam keel.
1. Got this great bargain today, all for €54. If you want one, see this thread.
2. This is how I used to support the boat, a bitch if you had to move them.
3. Using up my scraps and off cuts to make some decent chocs to stand the boat on.
4. Works well and easy to move when you need access to the hull.
5. Stringer cavity seems to have dried out completely. I might drill a couple of holes into it to try and determine what exactly I am dealing with
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Day 27
I finished cutting out the remaining rotten stringers and decided to bite the bullet and get cracking on grinding out the floor. Is it called the floor ?
Little did I realise what I was in for, I used the angle grinder with 40 grit sanding disks. I have never seen dust like it. It was simply sick. I filled a bucket and a half during the day, god knows whats gone into my lungs despite decent breath masks. Anyhow, I got is pretty much finished. So I think I am now ready to bed down stringers and then lay a layer of glass on the floor.
Here's some questions
1. Should I stop the demolition now? Have I gone far enough? If it was your boat, what would you be doing now?
2. How shall I do the stringers? I was thinking of bedding them into the original channels with a filler, letting them set up and then glassing them over, is this ok?
3. Do I need to bolt or wedge them in while they set up?
Finally, a bit of bad news last night. My laptop finally gave up. I have been patching it together for the past two years. It has no battery and wont take one. The power cable is taped up to the back of it and keeps cutting out. Last night it just cut out so often that I had to bite the bullet. I simply can't be without a computer and had been saving a little for just this event, but it means my bank balance is now bone dry. Could mean a temporary crisis with the boat, we'll have to see.
1. You've never seen dust like this
2. First time this floor has seen daylight since it left the factory.
3. It's great to get back to the original grp and I'm glad to report it's pretty healthy.
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
looking great, I'll swap you two buckets of sawdust for one of fiberglass
1. I would check the transom I'm not sure how your boat was made but a lot of them have plywood sandwiched between the fiberglass to give it strength and this tends to rot also look for cracks at each end of the transom.
2. Sounds good
3. Just wedge them or put a heavy weights on them if they are tin enough to bend, if they are thick you might have to shape them to the hull and add weights.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
I have never used sp 106 so I can't say, I use west system and get it from MPD, as long as it's suitable for marine use you should be ok.
You could also give these guys a call for a price they do good deals.
http://www.fibreglassdirect.co.uk/ and are based in Warrenpoint.
http://www.shorebreaksurfboards.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 they are in Kerry.
http://www.marineparts.ie/paint-and-maintenance/epoxy-repair-kits/ They do large cans but it's not on there listing so might also be worth a call.
I wish lidi did epoxy . 0 -
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Day 28
This beauty arrived this morning from Amazon. I'm a big fan of Amazon, been shopping with them for years. Free delivery and great prices on selected brands such as Bosch:). Great place for hardware bits and pieces, sanding belts, disks, bits etc. If you shop there, click "items elegible for free delivery" on the left. Once your order goes over £25, delivery is free. Beat that!
Time to start with the stringers. I started out today by milling down a nice piece of oak and a couple of pieces of mahogany. With the router I rounded over the stringer tops so that glass cloth will lay over them easily. For the central stringer I chamfered the bottom of the timber so that it would sit better in the channel. The original stringers were not continuous, they stopped at the bulkhead. I decided to cut out a piece of the bulkhead and fashion one continuous stringer. As I did not have a piece of oak long enough, I dowel jointed two pieces together.
The central stringer was sitting very proud of the floor as it seems the boat floor has a natural (I hope natural) curve along its length. So to get it to sit down, I decided to countersink SS screws into it and down into the original bond filler in the stringer channel. I placed small 3mm ply shims underneath the stringer (screwing through them) to prevent the stringer for being forced completely to the floor, I want to allow room underneath for some filler to allow good bedding.
As a filler, I decided to go all out with epoxy. I mixed up epoxy resin (well). Then into that I mixed glass chopped strands, and on top of that I mixed in colloidal silica. You end up with a stiff paste that lends itself very well to filling and filleting. So fill and fillet I did. My central stringer is now one single piece of wood the length of the boat. It's bedded and SS screwed in place and filleted along it's length. Towards evening I started on side stringers, I have left these bedded in overnight with concrete blocks weighing them down.
I used to do a bit of woodworking, but only with pine. Hardwood is a different ballgame and I get it now. It's beautiful stuff to work with. It's precise, looks, feels and smells great and it's heavy. Also gotta say I love using a router. It makes me feel "professional". Just looking at a piece of wood after running a roundover bit on it makes me happy. Ever watch Norm Abram - New Yankee Workshop? I used to be glued to it on the Discovery channel.
Quick word of thanks to Slig for the use of the table say this evening on a different project altogether. He brought me down to his missus's family's eh..."compound" in Knockvicar this evening and we milled wood in a great wee workshop that I'd kill for.
1. Routing hardwood makes me happy. Nice piece of oak rounded over and chamfered.
2. You can see on the left, my longest piece of oak was too short to run the length of the boat; so why not make one long stringer out of 2 pieces of oak dowel jointed together.
3. Poxy epoxy. Epoxy with a mix of glass strands and colloidal silica makes a great filling and bedding paste. It may be a bit of overkill and an expensive way to go but at this stage I want to do things right+1.
4. Stringer SS screwed, bedded and filleted in with epoxy glass strand paste. It came out great, looks professional and I'm delighted with the results. Next job will be to glass over these stringers with 5 or 6 layers of biaxial cloth.
5. Side stringers bedded and filleted in; weighed down for the night as I do not have the option of screwing these in.
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Boat restoration recipes #1
So you are covered in dust, grinding fibreglass and sanding wood. It's 30 degrees c and you are dehydrating fast. Here's what you do......(magically float back to the day before)
Go down to Lidl, and pick up this lot (the Lime is optional). Fridge em up for a few hours nice and chilled.
Cut a slice or 2 of lemon, then cut it in half. Squeeze the bollocking be-jesus out of it into a tall glass. Throw the leftover into the glass also. Half - 2/3 fill the glass with Plein Sud, then top up with the sparkling water.
Voila!
Trust me, just do it! Best tipple I've ever had, I live on the stuff. Further restoration recipes to follow....:cool:0 -
Update
Jesus H Christ the weather, the weather!!!!
I had to go out earlier and re-tie the tarp, It's blowing away and I think it's leaking now. It's more or less a storm outside. Yesterday was just rain all day and night, today we add high winds to the continuing driving rain.
I feel like a prisoner indoors. Mad to get out and do a bit of work but there is no way. Even the dog wouldn't go out this morning. When I opened the back door and she felt that rain, she just looked up at me, wagged her tail and backed right out of there.
Anyhow, the new laptop has arrived so I can keep in touch with the thread on boards, not to mention keep on dwonloading TB's of por.......I've said too much!
1. New laptop arrives. You can see the old one with tape holding it and the power cable in place. It is also missing a battery, fasteners and some keys. I've had it on life support for years.
2. You probably can't tell from this, but its lashing rain. I am struggling to keep the tarp from blowing away. It also seems to be leaking.
3. Goddam jet stream! I'm told it's position promises more summers like this.
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Day 29
This update is all about glassing in stringers.
I struggled ahead with various gaps in the hellish weather to try and get some work done. After lunch I opened back the tarp to see a somewhat flooded floor again. So I mopped and toweled as best I could and for luck I have had a dry and windy day that has done some good drying.
I want to get the stringers sorted so I have taken the decision to try one short one, post my methods on here and see if I am doing things right. I chose the starboard galley stringer, it's dry, raised and short so it's a good place to start.
I decided to make a patch using I think 6 pieces of glass fibre varying in widths from 70mm to 120mm. The cloth was measured to overshoot the length by about 50mm each end also. I used 4 cuts of biaxial and 2 of 280g woven roving. I laided them out on the bench on a piece of polythene fertilser bag and wetted them out. I have to say that the biaxial sure is thirsty. The advantage of making this patch on the bench is that I am able to work it properly there and squeegee out surplus epoxy etc.
In the meantime, I had sanded down my stringer and surrounds with 40grit and cleaned it really well with acetone. Then I applied a coat of epoxy and let that set a little for about 20 minutes while I made the patch.
Once the patch was ready, I was able to carry it on the polythene back into the boat and rest it over the stringer. Because it was pre-wetted, it sat down pretty well and I was able to stub it in and work it down. I then decided to place a nice wide covering piece of fibre over the entire patch to tidy it up. I went with woven roving 280g and boy was I sorry. I wet it through and it just would not sit down. I eventually threw it out and went with a cut of biaxial. The difference is amazing. The biaxial immediately sits down and I was able to wet it through and stub it into place with ease. Biaxial is a different ballgame and if you have never used it for akward setup's, I'd highly recommend you give it a try.
So that's how I went about the first stringer. Now tell me, am I doing this ok? Is there a better way? Let me know what you think.
1. Making a patch. I cut several pieces of glass fibre. In this case 4 pieces of biaxial and 2 pieces of woven roving for the inside. Making the patch on the bench allows you to work it thoroughly and squeegee out all surplus epoxy.
2. The stringer and surrounding starboard floor coated with epoxy and allowed to sit for about 20 minutes - awaiting the patch.
3. The patch placed over the stringer and the polythene bag peeled away. Then I worked it in with a stubby brush and a block of wood.
4. One final layer of biaxial cloth to cover over everything and tidy up the finish. The biaxial cloth works so much better than even light woven roving in these tight angle layup situations.
5. The final layer of biaxial glass fibre wetted through and worked down onto the patch.
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Join Date:Posts: 6062
You can do it the same way as your stringers , cut your cloth width ways that should give you 1m strips and start at the transom so the overlaps will run down the boat and not trap water. For bigger jobs I buy a pack of disposable clear plastic party cups a bag of plastic knives for mixing and some foil trays, mix about 1/4 of a cup and pour it into the tray " The more surfaces area epoxy has the longer it will take to go off " this should give you a bit of time to paint it on with a disposable brush, as soon as you feel it start to gel dump it and mix a new batch.
Your doing great keep up the good work, it's giving good weather next week so back down to lidl for some more of your tipple. 0 -
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