Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

False rape accusation...who would you believe?

1181921232436

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    This happened because a Democrat was president, Biden has vowed to reverse due process for young men....

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/biden-vows-a-quick-end-to-devos-sexual-misconduct-rule-241715

    Whatever you think of Trump, the Democrats are a joke...trying to keep the angry feminists on board by continuing to deny young men in college due process (something that is costing the colleges in class action suits) and simultaneously ignoring the serious accusations that Biden himself is facing....there is a good chance that Biden is so medicated he has no recollection that he is actually running in a presidential race!!

    i dont even know where to begin with this..

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    (US)


    https://news.yahoo.com/devos-announces-title-ix-cementing-212227203.html

    I'm no expert on US politics, but get the impression this might not have happened if a Democrat was president. Many I think would have run away from the idea of getting involved in support of the accused.
    I wasn't aware of the following when I posted:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/496518-biden-says-hell-reverse-devos-rule-to-bolster-protections-for-those-accused
    Former Vice President Joe Biden said Wednesday that if he’s elected president, he will reverse a rule issued by Education Secretary Betsy DeVos aimed at bolstering protections for students who are accused of sexual assault on university campuses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Veteran comedian Sil Fox cleared of sexually assaulting woman at Dublin bar
    The woman made a specific allegations that Fox had put his left on her groin and tickled her vagina for 30 seconds as the photo was taken.
    The CCTV evidence was shown to her and she still maintained that he had sexually assaulted her. She had accepted the footage showed his hand on the table the entire time it took for the photo to be taken.

    The only time his hand was not visible was for three seconds after the photo was taken, not 30 seconds.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/sil-fox-sexual-assault-cleared-courts-5109092-May2020/
    After the decision was delivered, Fox, who was brought to court by his son Cyril, told reporters he has been through “months of hell”.

    “My health, physically and mentally, has deteriorated and I have endured countless nights with little or no sleep,” he said.

    All his shows were cancelled because of the case but he is now looking forward to getting back to work, the entertainer said.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    iptba wrote: »

    How did that make it to a court?

    How was she not charged?

    The poor man was in his 80s!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    How did that make it to a court?

    How was she not charged?

    The poor man was in his 80s!!!!

    I hope she has to pay her own legal expenses at least


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    LillySV wrote: »
    I hope she has to pay her own legal expenses at least

    The DPP took the case, she didn't she is treated as a witness in the case so she had no expenses.

    Cases like this one were easy to dismiss, it wasn't even a he said she said scenario, it was a she said and CCTV footage completely exposed her nonsense scenario.

    The poor man at that age of his life!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    The DPP took the case, she didn't she is treated as a witness in the case so she had no expenses.

    Cases like this one were easy to dismiss, it wasn't even a he said she said scenario, it was a she said and CCTV footage completely exposed her nonsense scenario.

    The poor man at that age of his life!!!

    Disgraceful.... That person shouldn’t get away with it ... and neither should Dpp.. should be made pay damages to him for taking such a ridiculous case


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    LillySV wrote: »
    Disgraceful.... That person shouldn’t get away with it ... and neither should Dpp.. should be made pay damages to him for taking such a ridiculous case

    The media take on Sil Fox:

    - If he had died of COVID-19, he would be a national treasure, front page eulogies.

    - If he had been convicted in this case, he would be the devil incarnate,

    - as he is acquitted, he will be forgotten.

    The nightmare he has endured at the hands of the DPP is what awaits anyone accused of a sexual offence, regardless of the evidence.

    But for that CCTV, he would have died in jail as the lowest of the low.

    Meanwhile, violent criminals lead the Gardai a merry dance

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-with-more-than-170-convictions-brought-garda%C3%AD-on-high-speed-chase-1.4262324


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    The problem is Gung ho gardai who make up their minds that someone is guilty and skew all evidence to that.

    Far too many inexperienced gardai out there with little to no oversight by properly trained professionals.

    Even at the start of this case it was obvious to most people that there was no case to answer.

    The woman's story did not add up and witnesses that were in her group did not corroborate her story.

    I hope Sil Fox takes a case for malicious prosecution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Caquas wrote: »
    The media take on Sil Fox:

    - If he had died of COVID-19, he would be a national treasure, front page eulogies.

    - If he had been convicted in this case, he would be the devil incarnate,

    - as he is acquitted, he will be forgotten.

    The nightmare he has endured at the hands of the DPP is what awaits anyone accused of a sexual offence, regardless of the evidence.

    But for that CCTV, he would have died in jail as the lowest of the low.

    Meanwhile, violent criminals lead the Gardai a merry dance

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-with-more-than-170-convictions-brought-garda%C3%AD-on-high-speed-chase-1.4262324

    Exactly, anybody especially a man is vulnerable to this type of accusation now even if behaviour, proper evidence completely contradicts it. This is not the first case of this kind and wont be the last in this country unfortunately, the DPP, gards have scant regard for the turmoil one has to go through awaiting a trial like this.

    And as for going after them, you can forget about it, I dont know anyone with balls big enough to take on the DPP and the gards(detectives) are protected.

    Its political and fashionable nowadays, this ****


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Darc19 wrote: »
    The problem is Gung ho gardai who make up their minds that someone is guilty and skew all evidence to that.

    Far too many inexperienced gardai out there with little to no oversight by properly trained professionals.

    Even at the start of this case it was obvious to most people that there was no case to answer.

    The woman's story did not add up and witnesses that were in her group did not corroborate her story.

    I hope Sil Fox takes a case for malicious prosecution.

    Malicious prosecution cases are rarely taken in this country but this needs to change. Too many nutters out there more than happy to ruin a mans life.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Malicious prosecution cases are rarely taken in this country but this needs to change. Too many nutters out there more than happy to ruin a mans life.

    There's really not "that" many, however, even one is too many. Which is why such a response should be encouraged due to the seriousness, and consequences of such accusations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    As I predicted, this outrageous prosecution is being ignored by the media. Even the Sunday papers seem to have dodged it.

    The only commentary I have seen is Jennifer O'Connell in yesterday's IT. At first, I thought it was going to be an attempt to re-assess #MeToo But see how brazenly she dismisses his suffering:
    It’s no surprise he would feel like that, but does he have a point?

    And not a word of criticism for the DPP, Claire Loftus.

    Then I realised why she was even talking about this case: Joe Biden

    Now that there’s an allegation that he assaulted a former staff assistant, Tara Reade, in 1993, he has had to clarify that what he meant was that we should take “the woman’s claim seriously when she steps forward. Then you have to look at the circumstances and facts."

    So don't #BelieveHer when she is accusing the Democratic Party putative nominee.

    Then she says a 2019 Law Reform Commission (LRC) report
    concluded that “false allegations of rape occur, but they are rare”, and that jurors and the public tend to overestimate the prevalence of false allegations.

    Don't look at paragraph 1.34 of the report if you value the Law Reform Commission. It makes an assertion on slender evidence which, above all, shows the LRC's indifference to this problem. Imagine if 6% of those convicted of murder in this country were actually innocent? When it comes to sexual crimes, the LRC has forgotten the noble principle that
    it is better 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer"

    https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/Reports/LRC%20122-2019%20Knowledge%20or%20Belief%20Concerning%20Consent%20in%20Rape%20Law.pdf




    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jennifer-o-connell-sil-fox-has-a-point-about-metoo-and-hashtag-justice-1.4265871


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Caquas wrote: »
    As I predicted, this outrageous prosecution is being ignored by the media. Even the Sunday papers seem to have dodged it.

    The only commentary I have seen is Jennifer O'Connell in yesterday's IT. At first, I thought it was going to be an attempt to re-assess #MeToo But see how brazenly she dismisses his suffering:


    And not a word of criticism for the DPP, Claire Loftus.

    Then I realised why she was even talking about this case: Joe Biden

    So don't #BelieveHer when she is accusing the Democratic Party putative nominee.

    Then she says a 2019 Law Reform Commission (LRC) report

    Don't look at paragraph 1.34 of the report if you value the Law Reform Commission. It makes an assertion on slender evidence which, above all, shows the LRC's indifference to this problem. Imagine if 6% of those convicted of murder in this country were actually innocent? When it comes to sexual crimes, the LRC has forgotten the noble principle that



    https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/Reports/LRC%20122-2019%20Knowledge%20or%20Belief%20Concerning%20Consent%20in%20Rape%20Law.pdf




    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jennifer-o-connell-sil-fox-has-a-point-about-metoo-and-hashtag-justice-1.4265871

    Is it really that surprising its being ignored by the media. This is the media who championed the metoo movement and feminism at the expense of basic male human rights. Making us second class citizens in effect in issues surrounding these type of matters.

    The possibility that a woman could use the current circumstances and political appetite to make up a malicious claim doesn't occur to them at all until they are on the receiving end of it or a family member. That's when it really hits home what is going wrong in this society.

    Above all else, the DPP and the gards have a duty to protect all citizens of this country, not just does making dubious allegations. The lack of proper investigation, the tunnel vision, the lack of concern for a mans mental health and reputational damage before sending him to court is all there for everyone to see but its being completely ignored and this is nothing short of a disgrace.

    This Claire Loftus (DPP) hasnt been in her position that long but she is already making quite a name for herself. Its clear the position she takes on allegations of this type, believe the woman at all costs even though the evidence contradicts it. When you see who has appointed her in the first place, it all starts to make sense. I wonder does the fact she has never been a barrister herself have anything to do with it, the first in the history of the state.

    Definitely, more cases of malicious prosecution need to be taken in this country and I hope this poor man does.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    It's not entirely true that the media are totally ignoring this. Brenda Power wrote a very hard hitting article in the Sunday Times on this. It's behind a paywall but I'll quote parts from the article.
    After all of the accused men were acquitted following the Belfast rape trial in 2018, a movement began across social media platforms and several news sites under the slogan #IBelieveHer. The premise was that the men’s celebrity had helped them, and the young complainant should be believed even though her accusations ranging from sexual assault to rape — a crime equated with murder in terms of gravity on our statute books — were dismissed by a jury.

    The campaign to reverse the presumption of innocence, and treat all accused men as guilty until they could prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt, quickly spread beyond the Belfast case. The social justice warriors’ argument was that a sexual crime is so intrusive and stressful to report that no victim would ever get it wrong.

    I didn’t see any great resurgence of the #IBelieveHer campaign last week when a middle-aged woman had her accusations of sexual assault against a prominent man thrown out of a Dublin court. Nobody stormed the District Court with placards, nobody waved knickers about, nobody piled on to social media demanding a retrial and lamenting the poor “victim’s” trauma. Even though the case was a high-profile one and the accused man was a public figure, there was a deafening silence from the mob. That’s probably because the complainant posed something of a challenge to the insistence that such women must be believed. Her evidence was found to be totally inconsistent.

    .
    .
    .
    It’s at this point that you’ve got to wonder whether the law has, in fact, been changed to the “I Believe Her” model— that the presumption of innocence has been reversed for sexual offences, and nobody’s thought to tell us. Fox was charged with sexual assault, one of the categories of sexual crime which does not afford anonymity to the accused. For 18 months, the 87-year-old, his wife and his family have lived with the appalling stigma of a sexual assault accusation. He has been out of work, his reputation has been trashed, and he has been forced to reveal humiliating details about the collapse of his libido following medical problems 11 years ago.

    Until the case came to court last week, though, it seems there was little forensic examination of the extensive CCTV footage of the alleged incident. The woman claimed Fox put his hand on her groin for 30 seconds during the taking of the photograph. He had then “skulked away”, leaving her distressed. But the CCTV showed Fox’s two hands in view the entire time, apart from a three-second period after the picture had been taken. The two had apparently parted on pleasant terms, with the woman touching him in a friendly gesture. There was no evidence of anything untoward, the court held, and no sign the woman was upset. Far from “skulking away”, Fox had ambled back to his friends at a leisurely pace.
    .
    .
    .
    Sexual assault “victims” are just as capable of getting it wrong — in this case badly wrong — as any other class of accuser, and given the life-wrecking nature of the charge, their claims have to be treated with the same legal scepticism as any other. This does not appear to have happened in Fox’s case, and he was prosecuted on the word of an untruthful witness. Small wonder the social justice warriors ran for cover this time. #IBelieveHim.

    Fair play to Brenda Power for writing this. As for Claire Loftus maybe she'd do well to look at what happened to Alison Saunders across the water. She was effectively sacked as DPP* because of her handling of a number of sexual assault cases that collapsed and should never have gone to trial because of lack of evidence.

    *Her contract wasn't renewed, which was easier than sacking her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    It's not entirely true that the media are totally ignoring this. Brenda Power wrote a very hard hitting article in the Sunday Times on this. It's behind a paywall but I'll quote parts from the article.


    Fair play to Brenda Power. As for Claire Loftus maybe she'd do well to look at what happened to Alison Saunders across the water. She was effectively sacked as DPP* because of her handling of a number of sexual assault cases that collapsed and should never have gone to trial because of lack of evidence.

    *Her contract wasn't renewed, which was easier than sacking her.

    Credit to Brenda indeed, she has often stood up to the SJWs.

    And she points to the key issue: but for the CCTV, Sil Fox would either be spending the rest of his days in jail or he would be convicted by the mob.

    Sadly, despite a couple of media comments, this scandal will sink without trace within a week. The Sunday Indo gave him a Quote of the Week but couldn’t find space to tell their readers what happened at his trial. Sil Fox won’t be on the Late Late or Prime Time or even Joe Duffy Funny Fridays. No questions will be asked in the Dail. No one will hold the DPP to account. How could she launch a prosecution which destroyed this man’s life when CCTV plainly exonerated him?

    Remember when we were told #MeToo would bring a flood of sexual harassment trials? Nothing happened, except Michael Colgan who was never charged with any crime but his reputation was destroyed by a report from the theatre he had managed for decades. Shakespearean!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/college-consent-crisis-students-forced-or-threatened-into-sex-39303926.html
    College consent crisis: students forced or threatened into sex

    Almost one in three female students has been subjected to sex involving force or incapacitation due to alcohol or drugs.

    It seems to me that advising people to be careful about their alcohol and/or drug usage could be useful if they wish to reduce the chances of unwanted sexual contact.
    Findings include:

    52pc of female, 49pc of non-binary, and 27pc of male students experienced unwanted touching, completed or attempted penetration.
    36pc of females, 32pc of non-binary, and 12pc of males experienced non-consensual completed penetration.
    29pc of females, 28pc of non-binary students, and 10pc of males described at least one experience involving tactics of incapacitation or force.
    49pc of males, 35pc of females, and 25pc of non-binary students who experienced non-consensual penetration through force or while incapacitated did not disclose the incident to anyone, many because they thought it was not serious enough.
    35pc of males, 29pc of females, and 29pc of non-binary students who experienced non-consensual penetration by tactics of incapacitation or force said the perpetrator was a student at their college.
    About 75pc of male or female students knew the perpetrator, while a higher proportion (38pc) of non-binary students reported the perpetrator was a stranger.
    Edit to add:
    I misread this: I thought it said
    Almost one in three female students has been subjected to sex involving force due to alcohol or drugs.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    It seems to me that advising people to be careful about their alcohol and/or drug usage could be useful if they wish to reduce the chances of unwanted sexual contact.

    Or maybe advising people not to take advantage of others that are under the influence?
    That could also be useful


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Or maybe advising people not to take advantage of others that are under the influence?
    That could also be useful
    Yes indeed both could be useful. But solely relying on people not to commit crimes is not how we deal with other things in society, yet some people seem to want that approach applied here.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Yes indeed both could be useful. But solely relying on people not to commit crimes is not how we deal with other things in society, yet some people seem to want that approach applied here.

    Blaming the victim seems to be a very popular way if dealing with crimes in this country.
    Edit, sexual crimes


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Blaming the victim seems to be a very popular way if dealing with crimes in this country.
    Advice for people to lock their doors, use alarms, etc. and other crime-prevention measures is accepted in other areas of life. But make suggestions about reducing some other types of crime, and you risk being attacked personally, making people nervous about doing it, particularly in non-anonymous situations.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Advice for people to lock their doors, use alarms, etc. and other crime-prevention measures is accepted in other areas of life. But make suggestions about reducing some other types of crime, and you risk being attacked personally, making people nervous about doing it, particularly in non-anonymous situations.

    Bit the fact that society seems to think your are going to be sexually assaulted because you're intoxicated? That means there is a problem with the society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    If I left my wallet stuffed with notes and credit cards on display lying on a bar counter while I went to the mens toilets for 5 mins, there is a strong possibility that it would attract the wrong sort of person who would take advantage of that situation.

    Likewise, I would not walk down a dark alleyway on my own at 3am in the morning passed a group of people on the off chance my safety would be jeopardised.

    If I do the above I have to take some responsibility for my actions despite not deserving my wallet stolen or been physically assaulted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Society thinks you're more likely to be hit as a pedestrian, when you are intoxicated. And you are more likely to end up in A&E with physical injuries from things like falls, if you're intoxicated. Society recognises that being intoxicated is a risk factor for many adverse outcomes.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    py2006 wrote: »
    If I do the above I have to take some responsibility for my actions despite not deserving my wallet stolen or been physically assaulted.

    You are a victim, you are not responsible. You Do not have to take any responsibility.
    I lived in another country where handbags were regularly left on tables in bars & no-one would go near them. If anyone ever tried, everyone else around would stop them.
    That's the problem with our society.
    The victim is never to blame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You are a victim, you are not responsible. You Do not have to take any responsibility.
    I lived in another country where handbags were regularly left on tables in bars & no-one would go near them. If anyone ever tried, everyone else around would stop them.
    That's the problem with our society.
    The victim is never to blame.

    why would you ever leave that country, sounds great


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Society thinks you're more likely to be hit as a pedestrian, when you are intoxicated. And you are more likely to end up in A&E with physical injuries from things like falls, if you're intoxicated. Society recognises that being intoxicated is a risk factor for many adverse outcomes.

    That's completely different. That's an intoxicated person falling out into traffic, that's not a victim.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You are a victim, you are not responsible. You Do not have to take any responsibility.
    I lived in another country where handbags were regularly left on tables in bars & no-one would go near them. If anyone ever tried, everyone else around would stop them.
    That's the problem with our society.
    The victim is never to blame.

    I don't mean in the sense as in the person deserves it but in this big bad world we need accountability for our own actions and responsibility for what we do.

    In an ideal world there would be no crime but unfortunately we aren't in that world.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    why would you ever leave that country, sounds great

    Merely on secondment from work, no choice :)


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    py2006 wrote: »
    accountability for our own actions and responsibility for what we do.
    .

    Exactly.
    The offender is the person responsible.
    The victim does not do anything but be a victim.


Advertisement