Social welfare lied about me

Leham wrote: »

Hi can anyone please help me as I dont know what to do.

A bit of back story, im a sub tutor on the unqualified rate of pay, last year 2018 - 2019 I worked in the same school all year and from January my hours were cut to part time so social welfare put me on casual dockets, I remained on these until the Summer when I went on to full social welfare payment.

At the end of September 2019 I got a subbing job in a new school, initially it was supposed to be for one week, I told social welfare and my payment was suspended. I collected for that week and informed social welfare that I had collected my payment, it remained suspended for two weeks. I then told social welfare the employment had ended and provided a letter from the school.
After this the school contacted me intermittently over the next 4 weeks. During this I worked 1 - 10 hours a week. I always told social welfare I was working, the weeks I worked 1 or so hours, I collected my social welfare (informed them I was doing so) as I was not getting paid much, I could literally be getting a couple of euro for a week. I didnt collect money on the weeks I was working more hours, I made a point of not doing so but obviously I have no way of proving this. I wasnt working on the mid term break and collected for this week, like all non permanent school staff do.

During this time, social welfare never tried to change my payment to casual dockets, they never tried to dock the days or hours I worked from my pay and never suggested I go onto education workers. I didnt know what payments I should be on and my local social welfare were not very unhelpful


During the mid term break I went back to social welfare to try and get onto the casual dockets as I had been on the previous acedemic year. I was given forms, filled them out, had my hours and wages filled out and signed by the school and brought everything I was asked to bring to social welfare.
A few weeks past and I got a letter stating my payment dating back to May (When I finished in the previous school) has been disqualified and that I owe social welfare 1015 euro.

They said my average income was 230 a week during September/October. When I questioned this, they took the amount I had earned over that entire time and broke it down, spreading it across each week, so even though in one week I might have earned less than 50 euro, in another week I might have earned 300 (and wouldnt have collected payment for this week), they averaged all my pay it over the entire month and said I earned 230 a week.

Any money I owe to social welfare I am more than willing to pay back would not expect to claim if I was working/earning anything close to the social welfare payment but theyre saying I took out money every week which I know I didnt I just have no way of proving, I only took out money when I was really stuck and working very few or no hours and I always informed social welfare.

When I questioned this I was put in contact with the deciding officer, he contacted me and when through my pay in revenue, he was focusing on pay that I got when I wasnt claiming, I got 3 weeks full time teaching in an ETB school in November where I was earning the qualified rate, they pay monthly so I got the pay in one lumpsum, he read it out to me and said it like I was rolling in money and looking for social welfare. - they should have put me on the education workers which I later found out, from staff in my school, that I should be on this payment. Instead they stayed focused on my application for casual dockets which I only applied for at the time because I didnt think I was going to get many more hours and the work was so intermittent, I didnt want to stop taking the work but I wouldnt have been able to live off it. If I had known I was going to get further hours and even full time hours, I wouldnt have applied for casual dockets but thats how it is being a casual teacher, you are literally waiting by the phone day to day.

I went to social welfare who told me to keep having the dockets filled out by the school and to continue handing them in so this is what I did, while in with the secretary in the school, she told me to apply for the education workers as thats what she gets.

I asked about it in social welfare and was told no I am not entitled to that as my income is too high. I said I had been on it the previous year and was told the system has changed now and im no longer entitled to it at all.

I was adivsed to have my application sent for an appeal, which I requested, I was called in for an appointment with the deciding officer as I had to sign a letter which I had sent in regarding the issue, while there the deciding officer didnt want me to try and appeal, so he tried to push me into writing 'I do not want this sent for appeal' on the letter under my signature.. I said no to him and he left it at that, the appeal was sent off.

Around Jan/Feb while in the staff room in work I got speaking to another sub teacher who is contracted, on a higher pay scale than me and was working more hours, she said she was getting the education workers, she also goes to the same intreo office as me.. I said I was told I wasnt entitled to this and she said no, I am entitled. So I went back in to social welfare that afternoon and told them I should be on education workers, the woman at the desk belligerently handed me forms to get filled out by the school. I got the filled out, brought them back to social welfare, the person behind the desk - different from the previous woman, told me they wearnt the right forms and gave me the right ones, so I had to get those ones signed and handed in which I did. - I recieved no payment for mid terms as my previous claim was still suspended so I was told I couldnt get any payments until that suspension is lifted.

Yesterday I finally got my appeal back stating that it has been denied my social welfare has been stopped and I owe them 1015... the part of this that is really getting to me, apart from the fact I didnt claim for every one of those weeks I worked in Spetmeber/October, and the besides the fact social welfare repeatedly gave me wrong information and messed me around all year, on the letter I got back it says no Payslips were provided by the appellent - I did give payslips, I remember having them photocopied. It also says "It is noted that unsuccessful attempts were made by the intreo office to contact the appellant regarding her case'

I was in constant communication with the social welfare, at no point did they unnsuccessfully try to contact me or advise me in anyway. If anything, I was trying to get correct information off them for months.

This has annoyed me as I was completely honest with them and I feel this comment implies that I wasnt, it sounds like they are attempting to throw me under the bus to cover their own backs. This is either a mistake on their part or a blatant lie on their part and I have every intention of taking it further. What is the point in anyone being honest with social welfare if they will turn around and say you were dishonest when you wearnt.

I rang the appeals office but they said I need to send a letter to another department. I rang my local social welfare but the woman who answered told me theyre only dealing with Covid payments and I will have to email. I asked her if I can still get the education workers payment, she told me she doesnt know and doesnt want to give me the wrong information.

I just dont know what to do or where to turn? I do owe social welfare which I have no problem paying but I dont owe as much as theyre saying I do. I also have been messed around by them all year, I shouldnt have to find out off other staff what payment I should be on, thats the jobs of the staff in social welfare. I am fuming that they lied and said they made unsuccessful attempts to contact me.

Can anyone help? I dont know what to do?.

conndeal wrote: »

You should appeal to the ombudsman if you have exhausted all your appeals with social welfare. The union wont be able to do anything - they would only deal with issues with your employer.

Get all your facts together, all your correspondence, payslips, dates of visits to Intreo office and outcome of discussion etc. Type up a timeline and state your facts as precisely as possible for each date. Attach copies of all correspondence and send it off to the ombudsman.

Leham wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
I have been considering contacting a local TD but wanted to try and resolve it myself first. Going to a TD is last resort.

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve been working with people who have issues with DEASP for 15 years and there is no such payment as “education workers”. I’m trying to work out in my head what scheme you are referring to but it’s escaping me at the moment.

Leham wrote: »

Hi Splinter, thank you so much for the helpful reply.

In regards to 'education workers' I might be calling it by the wrong name? It could be school workers? Im unsure of the correct term. Its payment for subsitute teachers and other school workers that dont get paid for holidays. We get forms filled out and signed by the school or department of education/etb for mid terms and Summer holidays. I think it's relatively new, im open to correction but I think it only came in in the last year or two.

I definitly was over payed by them, im not denying that and have no problem paying back what I owe, I would never expect to work and recieve social welfare.
If I was entitled to 100 or so a week, why did they refuse to pay me anything and stop my social welfare completely and why are they expecting me to pay back the full 203 euro for each of those weeks? Even the weeks were I wasnt working at all?.

Also, why are they saying they unnsuccessfully tried to contact me? That is a total lie.

I just want to add, the previous year I was a casual sub in a special school, I was working full days and earning allot more than I was in Septmber just gone. That year I was permitted to sign on x's and o's and they never had a problem with me doing so. Why is it that in September when I started casually teaching for less hours and less pay was I not entitled to anything?

It's too inconsistent..

Leham wrote: »

Hi thanks for replying. Yes im aware its jobseekers but its under the name Educational sectors workers' When I asked to go back on this payment I was told no, they didnt look into my claim or ask any questions, just straight out said no. I went away thinking this wasnt available anymore. The colleague I was speaking to was on the education workers payment I should have been on, as in she was getting social welfare for mid terms etc, I wasnt, thi was nothing to do with the suspended claim, I was told I couldnt get it because it wasnt available , his words were 'everythings tightened up' and I couldnt get it.

I was eventually placed on this payment back in Jan/Feb after calling social welfare and explaining my situation, they sent out forms for me to fill out and I handed them in. I knew I wouldnt get the payments until my suspension was lifted but should have been giving the forms in anyway, which I did when I finally got the issue sorted.

I asked for a casual claim in September when I was only working a handful of hours/days a week as I had been on this from Jan the year before in a previous school. I am aware that if I work for even 1 hour a day im not entitled to any pay, thats fine, I wasnt expecting anything but I didnt know from one day to the next if I will be working. The deciding officer decided I wasnt entitled to this and instead of putting me onto the right payment, he closed my claim completely and said I owe over 1000 euro.

If anything ive learned from this, I will never take a casual subbing job again. If it means staying on social welfare and turning down work I will have to do that as I cant go through all this again. The stress it has caused over the past year is not worth it.

Leham wrote: »

Hi, yes im aware theres no special payment for teachers, its a payment for school staff that dont have work during school closure and dont get paid during these times like secretaries, bus escorts, sub sna's, sub teachers that dont get holiday pay. I had been on it previously, when I said that to the guy behind the desk he told me it wasnt available anymore because my wages were too high? Even though I was part time/causal and on the unqualified rate, for most of the year I was earning about 300 a week. It was only when I was in work I dicovered from a full time, contracted teacher who is on a higher pay than me, that she was getting social welfare during mid term breaks etc.
It was like they ust decide themselves who they give it to and who they dont give it too. Like theyre on a bit of a power trip or something.

I dont know how much I got, I didnt keep track, I thought the money thats not taken out just gets sent back and they can see it wasnt touched so I didnt think of making a note of money I didnt take out.

1015 would suggest I took money out consistently for 5 weeks. I know I didnt take money out every week, I made a point of not doing so. Also, this doesnt make any sense as the pay was suspended for 2 weeks during the 5 weeks I worked from Septmeber - October when I tried to change my claim to casual.