Social welfare lied about me

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

Can I obtain copies of these?

Yes certainly they’ll be more then happy to let you see copies of all the receipts you signed in the PO.

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

Oh lord. Casual workers is just a version of jobseekers. This is exhausting. You don’t want any advice you just want someone to tell you that you are right and SW are wrong. Right now you’ve no SW income and that’s just the way it’s going to stay until you either get a full time job or stop talking and start listening to what your being told.

So are you saying that I wasnt entitled to claim anything? I wasnt entitled to casual workers in September/October and I wasnt entitled to job seekers during mid terms like all other school staff not getting wages during school closure?

Sinus pain

When you say take out money- is that at the post office or are you paid into your bank account?

Leham

Sinus pain wrote: »

When you say take out money- is that at the post office or are you paid into your bank account?

The post office

maneno

On initial application, what did you apply for? What does the letter approving your dole say? You seem not to be answering these questions

Leham

maneno wrote: »

On initial application, what did you apply for? What does the letter approving your dole say? You seem not to be answering these questions

Apologies, I didnt see those questions.

I applied for casual workers. My dole wasnt approved, I havnt been recieving any payments.

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

So are you saying that I wasnt entitled to claim anything? I wasnt entitled to casual workers in September/October and I wasnt entitled to job seekers during mid terms like all other school staff not getting wages during school closure?

I’m saying you have a very poor grasp of the concept of applying for a SW payment when you’re not in full time work.
You have preconceived ideas but how these things are processed which couldn’t be any further from the actuality of things.
You clearly aren’t open to being told by SW that you are wrong and you need to listen.
So right now you’re without a payment and that’s the way it will be until you stop arguing with them and telling them how to do their job and start listening and co operating.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

I want to accept the work but can you not see how social welfare have made this very difficult? Why is it that last year I was able to claim casual dockets while on more money and more hours but this year I wasnt? Im not looking for anything im not entitled to. I dont want full social welfare when im working, thats not what im looking for.

You said social welfare supplement wages, I know this, this is what I tried to claim but was told no. I have my calander from Septmeber, some weeks that I worked within those 5 weeks, I worked no more that 1 or 2 hours a week. Its not like I was working everyday or even 4 days a week some weeks. That was clearly stated on the form I filled out which was signed and stamped by the school.

Did you exhaust your benefits from last year and need to go on Jobseeker's Allowance?

Everyone's circumstances are different your colleague may have been claiming her stamps, being on a casual claim or be on a one parent family payment or claiming working family payment.

You said you picked up full social welfare payments for weeks you worked at least one day? Why did you pick them up if you knew you were not entitled to them then.

I find it hard to see how both the deciding officer and appeals officer made a decision against you if you were in fact entitled to a payment as you have stated if they had all the relevant facts. Especially if the DO had made an error on your first decision they would review it rather than go through the appeals process for nothing.

dartboardio

SW haven't lied about you..

They averaged your wage over a YTD figure and just because you aren't entitled to it now, but you were before, is irrelevant

Most government bodies do this.. So its not much of a surprise

Maybe if you were to actually research and know your own entitlements by looking into these things properly beforehand and asking questions at these meetings with the DO, then you wouldn't be so confused

Leham

Ive already been informed by a different person in the intreo that I am entitled to the school workers pay. The first guy told me I wasnt without even looking into anything, I asked and he said no, its not available anymore.

They did lie as they said I didnt hand in payslips, I did. They also said they made unnsuccessful attempts to contact me - they didnt. I never once ignored them and was trying to find out for months what pay I should be on.

I did ask quetions, repeatedly, but each time they would give me contradicting information depending on who I was speaking to. Eg of that is the first guy telling me the school workers isnt available anymore, then to be told by someone else it is available and sent me forms. Is it not their job to know wheter this payment is available or not? All school staff that dont get paid for holidays/mid term breaks are entitled to it, unless they have other income.

As mentioned I took the money out because I wasnt getting much from the job, the weeks I worked an hour I could literally get 25 euro for the week in wages. Thankfully my hours increased as the year went on but starting out in September for the first month, this is the way it was.

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m saying you have a very poor grasp of the concept of applying for a SW payment when you’re not in full time work.
You have preconceived ideas but how these things are processed which couldn’t be any further from the actuality of things.
You clearly aren’t open to being told by SW that you are wrong and you need to listen.
So right now you’re without a payment and that’s the way it will be until you stop arguing with them and telling them how to do their job and start listening and co operating.

I just want to make a point, earlier you said if I was earning 230 a week, social welfare would top up those wages by 100 euro. As I said I got nothing, despite earning nothing some weeks to as little as 25 euro other weeks. Yet at the same time your telling me I dont know what im talking about and have a poor grasp of social welfare.
Seems a bit contradictory.

Im not arguing with them just trying to get to the bottom of this as its been hanging over me since September. I dont have to co operate if I know that something isnt right. What is the point in being honest with them when they can turn around and say that I lied by not givin payslips and not engaging with them?

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

I just want to make a point, earlier you said if I was earning 230 a week, social welfare would top up those wages by 100 euro. As I said I got nothing, despite earning nothing some weeks to as little as 25 euro other weeks. Yet at the same time your telling me I dont know what im talking about and have a poor grasp of social welfare.
Seems a bit contradictory.

Im not arguing with them just trying to get to the bottom of this as its been hanging over me since September. I dont have to co operate if I know that something isnt right. What is the point in being honest with them when they can turn around and say that I lied by not givin payslips and not engaging with them?

You’re absolutely correct here. You don’t have to co operate with your Intreo Centre at all. You can walk right out the door and go home and provide for yourself.
Edited to add: in order to qualify for the €100 then you were only allowed to work 3 days out of 7 that week. If you worked any more then 3 then you were entitled to nothing.
But you knew that already because you said you understand the scheme perfectly.

BohsCeltic

Leham wrote: »

I just want to make a point, earlier you said if I was earning 230 a week, social welfare would top up those wages by 100 euro. As I said I got nothing, despite earning nothing some weeks to as little as 25 euro other weeks. Yet at the same time your telling me I dont know what im talking about and have a poor grasp of social welfare.
Seems a bit contradictory.

Im not arguing with them just trying to get to the bottom of this as its been hanging over me since September. I dont have to co operate if I know that something isnt right. What is the point in being honest with them when they can turn around and say that I lied by not givin payslips and not engaging with them?

I understand your pain and frustration. Just like me being honest and very little help offered. It seems if you make a song and dance about it, they will fix it quicker.
That's from my experience anyway.

Before i was made redundant from my old job in 2010 i was on a 3 day week. I had to apply for the extra 2 days from welfare. The woman behind the counter was so rude, basically told me i should be happy i was getting something. Sure isn't that what PRSI is for. You would have thought it was coming out of her own pocket.

Then i got a letter to ask me why i wasn't looking for work despite being employed, this was when the recession had kicked in.
The mind boggles.

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

You’re absolutely correct here. You don’t have to co operate with your Intreo Centre at all. You can walk right out the door and go home and provide for yourself.
Edited to add: in order to qualify for the €100 then you were only allowed to work 3 days out of 7 that week. If you worked any more then 3 then you were entitled to nothing.
But you knew that already because you said you understand the scheme perfectly.

I didnt say I understood the scheme perfectly at all, I went to them to find out about it but instead of helping me they took an attitude and gave me wrong information and generally just wouldnt listen to me.

splinter65 wrote: »

You can walk right out the door and go home and provide for yourself.

This is really what it all comes down to, the general contempt and unhelpful attitude by most staff working in the intreo, they look down on anyone looking to sign on wheter we're working or not.
I do provide for myself, I have a job, im a teacher, I educate your kids. When your childs teacher is sick or on leave I come in to make sure your child doesnt miss out on any part of their education. Like all teachers starting out we dont walk into full time permanent jobs, we sub day to day, building experience and earning very little money until we eventually get a contract. That is why social welfare services are in place for school workers that dont get paid for holidays and subs who work minimal hours. Imagine if we all quit to get full time jobs in other areas, the education system would literally fall apart. Schools are full of subs. Rediculous, contemptious comment. If you dont like your job, and want to make life hard for others, do something else.

Leham

BohsCeltic wrote: »

I understand your pain and frustration. Just like me being honest and very little help offered. It seems if you make a song and dance about it, they will fix it quicker.
That's from my experience anyway.

Before i was made redundant from my old job in 2010 i was on a 3 day week. I had to apply for the extra 2 days from welfare. The woman behind the counter was so rude, basically told me i should be happy i was getting something. Sure isn't that what PRSI is for. You would have thought it was coming out of her own pocket.

Then i got a letter to ask me why i wasn't looking for work despite being employed, this was when the recession had kicked in.
The mind boggles.

This is exactly it, you would swear the money is coming out of their own pocket. They question you like your lying to them and treat you like the scum of the earth. I dont think anyone actually likes having to collect social welfare, we all want to earn our own money. They really have a way of kicking you when youre down and the worse part is, they have the power to stop and start your pay as they please and give misinformation to send you running round in circles. Where do intreo centers find these people? Are they trained to treat people like dirt or are they selected because theyre miserable bullies?

BohsCeltic

Leham wrote: »

This is exactly it, you would swear the money is coming out of their own pocket. They question you like your lying to them and treat you like the scum of the earth. I dont think anyone actually likes having to collect social welfare, we all want to earn our own money. They really have a way of kicking you when youre down and the worse part is, they have the power to stop and start your pay as they please and give misinformation to send you running round in circles. Where do intreo centers find these people? Are they trained to treat people like dirt or are they selected because theyre miserable bullies?

I have found some of them nice and helpfull but you get many on a power trip. I have seen many people walk out crying.
There is no way i could ever do a job like that, your playing cards with peoples lives and it's sad to see some people get a buzz out of doing that.

If it wasn't for my family and friends i probably would have been homeless now. I dread to think about what people go through who have no one to turn to. It's depressing even thinking about it.

I hope you get everything sorted soon. I am supposed to get a call from them tomorrow. Hopefully good news so i can get back on my feet and repay everyone i had to borrow from to keep myself afloat.

Just have to have hope and never give up.

Leham

BohsCeltic wrote: »

I have found some of them nice and helpfull but you get many on a power trip. I have seen many people walk out crying.
There is no way i could ever do a job like that, your playing cards with peoples lives and it's sad to see some people get a buzz out of doing that.

If it wasn't for my family and friends i probably would have been homeless now. I dread to think about what people go through who have no one to turn to. It's depressing even thinking about it.

I hope you get everything sorted soon. I am supposed to get a call from them tomorrow. Hopefully good news so i can get back on my feet and repay everyone i had to borrow from to keep myself afloat.

Just have to have hope and never give up.

There are some lovely people in social welfare but theyre often few and far between unfortunatly. It's crazy how they genuinly get a buzz out of it. I remember going in one time looking for a docket last year after id misplaced one and needed a new sheet, the guy behind the desk (the same guy who told me this time that school workers payments where no more) - refused to give me a new docket, thought he was the big man telling me no.

Thanks and fingers crossed for you that everything goes well.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

As mentioned I took the money out because I wasnt getting much from the job, the weeks I worked an hour I could literally get 25 euro for the week in wages. Thankfully my hours increased as the year went on but starting out in September for the first month, this is the way it was.

That's not how the system works. Obviously there was going to be an overpayment if you were working and signing. They usually assess the full period from the date you started work if you kept picking up your payments while working.

Leham

square ball wrote: »

That's not how the system works. Obviously there was going to be an overpayment if you were working and signing. They usually assess the full period from the date you started work if you kept picking up your payments while working.

Yes I know theres an over payment, as mentioned I expected there to be and will pay it back no problem.

The issues im having are :

1. They gave false information to the appeals section, they told them I did not provide pay slips - I did. They told them they tried to contact me unsuccesfully this is a lie, they never tried to contact me, I was contacting them myself repeatedly during this time trying to get appropriate information.

2. I was repeatedly given misinformation regarding social welfare payments for months.

3. The over payment is more than what I recieved in welfare payments.

ToddDameron

Leham wrote: »

Yes I know theres an over payment, as mentioned I expected there to be and will pay it back no problem.

The issues im having are :

1. They gave false information to the appeals section, they told them I did not provide pay slips - I did. They told them they tried to contact me unsuccesfully this is a lie, they never tried to contact me, I was contacting them myself repeatedly during this time trying to get appropriate information.

2. I was repeatedly given misinformation regarding social welfare payments for months.

3. The over payment is more than what I recieved in welfare payments.

They are incompetent at the best of times, let alone now when all this is going on. Depending on who is on the phone, and how arsed they are doing their job, you'll get a different answer.

Leham

ToddDameron wrote: »

They are incompetent at the best of times, let alone now when all this is going on. Depending on who is on the phone, and how arsed they are doing their job, you'll get a different answer.

This all happened before the pandemic. Ive been getting different answers and different advise and different forms all depending on who I speak to in the office. Its crazy and then they treat you with such contempt like youre a criminal when you ask a question. Its just a nightmare.

Cushie Butterfield

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

BohsCeltic

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

What a crappy thing to say. She knows she has to pay back but is being told different things everytime.
Hope you feel proud hiding behind that keyboard or that screen in the welfare office.
Maybe one day you might find yourself in a similar situation and realise how hard it is to do things right by being honest about everything and getting treated like scum.

Leham

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

Sorry but who is it that you think youre speaking too?
Im not paying what I do not owe. It was not fraud, when I collected the payment I informed them I had done so. I will happily pay back what I owe.

I do not consider myself lucky at all. I think its an absolute disgrace that a government body that is designed to protect the most vulnerable in this country can be used to intimidate and manipulate average working people in this way. All the while politicians and mulit international companies get away with paying no taxes and giving themselves massive bonuses.

I will not, under any circumstances allow myself to be bullied by the low lives behind the social welfare desks. It is horrific that they can get away with this sort of treatment. Sad little bully boys is all they are.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

Yes I know theres an over payment, as mentioned I expected there to be and will pay it back no problem.

The issues im having are :

1. They gave false information to the appeals section, they told them I did not provide pay slips - I did. They told them they tried to contact me unsuccesfully this is a lie, they never tried to contact me, I was contacting them myself repeatedly during this time trying to get appropriate information.

2. I was repeatedly given misinformation regarding social welfare payments for months.

3. The over payment is more than what I recieved in welfare payments.

How could the overpayment be higher than what you received?

You would have been given an opportunity to submit any additional information and presenting your argument in writing when you submitted your appeal. Why didn't you present all this as part of your appeal?

If what you are saying is true contact the manager of the Intreo centre and send them a letter/email outlining the full facts of your case including dates you worked, contacted the office and all copies of all the paperwork you sent in.

Leham

square ball wrote: »

How could the overpayment be higher than what you received?

You would have been given an opportunity to submit any additional information and presenting your argument in writing when you submitted your appeal. Why didn't you present all this as part of your appeal?

If what you are saying is true contact the manager of the Intreo centre and send them a letter/email outlining the full facts of your case including dates you worked, contacted the office and all copies of all the paperwork you sent in.

I did this. I first sent a letter stating my case to the manager of the deciding officer, I specifically asked that it was to be looked over by the manager and not the deciding officer, this was at the advice of the lady on the desk. The letter was given to the deciding officer and not the manager despite my request.

The deciding officer stuck with his decision, I was told by someone else in social welfare that I could send the letter to the appeals. The deciding officer tried to stop me from doing this. He wanted me to sign the letter and told me to write 'I do not want this to go to the appeals office' at the bottom of the letter, I refused to write this and told him I did want to appeal it.

I was told to send the letter and nothing else, if documentation is needed, they will contact me. They never contacted me. All payslips and requested documents had been given to the intreo office when I applied for casual dockets at the end of October/Early November.

When I finally got the appeal decision back, on Friday just gone, the letter indicates that the intreo office or deciding officer told the appeals that I did not provide any pay slips and that they tried to communicate with me unnsuccessfully. Neither of these statements are true.

This leads me to think that the intreo office or deciding officer either mistakenly gave them false information or purposly did so for what ever reason, I dont know what that reason is, make of it what you will.

lughildanach

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve been working with people who have issues with DEASP for 15 years and there is no such payment as “education workers”. I’m trying to work out in my head what scheme you are referring to but it’s escaping me at the moment.
What’s happened to you here is that right back at the very start one of two things happened.
1. When you applied for Jobseekers the deciding officer didn’t explain the rules to you at all
OR
2. The rules were explained and you didn’t understand them. That’s understandable as there’s lots of rules and when your working some and claiming some it’s quite complicated, and some DOs aren’t great at explaining.
However, at the end of the day your understanding of your entitlement and the conditions for Jobseekers is quite quite wrong in many ways and you were overpaid by them and that money has to go back in to the pot.
They are absolutely entitled to go back over your employment income for months and months to get an average per week income. Those are the rules. If you income was €230 per week then you would only have been entitled to €100 per week Jobseekers. If you got more then that over that whole period then the amount you got too much will have to be repaid.

If the error is on the Departmental side of things, no money should be going back into the pot. Although social welfare will often ask for money to be repaid even if it is their fault, but Appeals Office/Ombudsman will often reverse those decisions.

lughildanach

Sounds like what has happened here is that you have tried to appeal the overpayment demand rather than the underlying social welfare decision. Overpayment demands are not appealable.

What is actually appealable is the revised decision regarding the Jobseekers entitlement. What makes things even more complicated in some cases is that the original revised decision is never actually communicated to the claimant. This would mean that no overpayment legally exists. But it won't stop them chasing you for it.

If a revised decision has been issued, this needs to be appealed. Even if the decision is correct (and by the sounds of it, it is not), if the error is on the part of the Department, the Appeals Officer can decide to give effect to the decision from a current date instead of backdating the decision. This would have the effect of cancelling any overpayment.

The area is quite technical. You should seek professional assistance.

Mind if I ask something. I’m assuming that you sign on x and os where x is a day you didn’t have any work at all. It it possible that you put x for a day you taught one class only?

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

Mind if I ask something. I’m assuming that you sign on x and os where x is a day you didn’t have any work at all. It it possible that you put x for a day you taught one class only?

Hi, sorry I think you have misread my post.
I wasnt signing on x's and o's. I tried to claim casual workers back in October but was denied and told I owe 1015 euro. I have not been recieving any social welfare payments.