Man, 65, convicted of purchasing sex in landmark prostitution case

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 22-01-2019 5:34pm

professore wrote: »

I'm not the one proposing this theory, it's the third wave feminists. I agree it's ridiculous.

Okay so at least you’ve clarified that it underpins third wave feminist theory, not all feminist theory. Even so, I’d stuggle to believe that every woman who calls herself a feminist today subscribes to the oppressor/victim idea of relationships in relation to any relationship they know of.

professore · 22-01-2019 5:38pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Okay so at least you’ve clarified that it underpins third wave feminist theory, not all feminist theory. Even so, I’d stuggle to believe that every woman who calls herself a feminist today subscribes to the oppressor/victim idea of relationships in relation to any relationship they know of.

Well if she understands the theory that's what she should believe. It's not a cherrypicking belief system. Control or be controlled.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 22-01-2019 5:40pm

professore wrote: »

Well if she understands the theory that's what she should believe. It's not a cherrypicking belief system.

Or she could be subscribing to another strand of feminist theory. Earlier feminism, maybe. We’ve clarified that not all feminist theory holds that viewpoint, right?

James Brown · 22-01-2019 5:46pm

KevinCavan wrote: »

Was it some beauty fresh out of Templemore in a short and fishnets that snared him?;-)

south-park-s13e09c04-sting-operation-16x9.jpg?quality=0.8

LeBash · 22-01-2019 6:25pm

I'd say we would legalise it if it went to referendum. I don't get the problem at all, he wanted to blow a load, she wanted money and was happy enough to allow him do it for the money.

Is there anything more sickening than people trying to force their morals on others? If you have a problem with prostitutes, then just don't visit them. Those people are so organised though that they get sh1t done regardless of it not being the will of the majority and I think half of it is immature politicians not willing to debate it in case they are painted as perverts in public.

Yamanoto · 22-01-2019 7:27pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I answered your hypothetical question. You can infer what you like from my answer.

You quite evidently did not.

As per usual, obfuscation and evasiveness are all you appear to offer. It's always marked you out as one of the most disingenuous contributors in this neck of the woods.

One eyed Jack · 22-01-2019 8:01pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

You quite evidently did not.

As per usual, obfuscation and evasiveness are all you appear to offer. It's always marked you out as one of the most disingenuous contributors in this neck of the woods.

It’s a hypothetical question posing a hypothetical scenario. I can’t give you the definitive answer you appear to be looking for as reality just isn’t so simple that the “yes/no” answer you’re looking for. I can’t give you a simple answer to your question because I have nothing to base it on given that in the real world circumstances are far more complex and my opinion would vary depending upon the circumstances of each and every individual case.

The law however, does not have the luxury of appreciating the nuance in each and every individual case, nor does the law have the luxury of individual and subjective morality. It has to be objective and as broad as possible to account for all circumstances. It would depend upon those circumstances what laws do, or do not apply.

You may as I said interpret my answer as being disingenuous, but I’m giving you my honest answer. I’m not going to be upset, nor will I have any sympathy for anyone who falls foul of this law, as they are aware of the law, and they are entirely responsible for their own actions, attitudes and behaviour should they find themselves being convicted of an offence under the law.

Rezident · 22-01-2019 8:02pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ruhama and prudes in govt have it all arseways. The demand will always be there.
The choice is either bring the industry into the light and legitimise it or drive it further underground where it can't be monitored at all.

The demand for heroin will always be there but that does not mean you should legalize it, as that will certainly increase the problem.

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

If prostitution was ok then people would be ok with their mother or sister or daughter being a prostitute. Vegans going mad at the meat industry, have you any idea how women are abused in the prostitution "industry" or are you wilfully blind to that? You cannot have one side of it without the other.

whisky_galore · 22-01-2019 8:18pm

Rezident wrote: »

The demand for heroin will always be there but that does not mean you should legalize it, as that will certainly increase the problem.

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

If prostitution was ok then people would be ok with their mother or sister or daughter being a prostitute. Vegans going mad at the meat industry, have you any idea how women are abused in the prostitution "industry" or are you wilfully blind to that? You cannot have one side of it without the other.

Apples and oranges.
Properly organised, no one needs to suffer or die, unlike heroin.

What was it Mark Twain said, nothing so needs reforming more than other people's habits. It's the world's oldest profession and it isn't going anywhere and neither police nor government or you in your nice little life can stop it.

One eyed Jack · 22-01-2019 8:39pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Apples and oranges.
Properly organised, no one needs to suffer or die, unlike heroin.

What was it Mark Twain said, nothing so needs reforming more than other people's habits. It's the world's oldest profession and it isn't going anywhere and neither police nor government or you in your nice little life can stop it.

It couldn’t be the worlds oldest profession, because it isn’t a profession in the first place -

any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.

Cambridge Dictionary

Tailoring, would appear to be the worlds oldest profession.

In saying that, I do of course understand the context in which the phrase is generally intended, but all too often people appear to interpret it literally as if to lend prostitution some form of legitimate occupation or social recognition it doesn’t deserve and certainly doesn’t possess, such as the idea of referring to it euphemistically as “sex work”.

whisky_galore · 22-01-2019 8:42pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It couldn’t be the worlds oldest profession, because it isn’t a profession in the first place -

any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.

Cambridge Dictionary

Tailoring, would appear to be the worlds oldest profession.

In saying that, I do of course understand the context in which the phrase is generally intended, but all too often people appear to interpret it literally as if to lend prostitution some form of legitimate occupation or social recognition it doesn’t deserve and certainly doesn’t possess, such as the idea of referring to it euphemistically as “sex work”.

It's a well known turn of phrase, you nitpicking doofus.

One eyed Jack · 22-01-2019 8:43pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's a well known turn of phrase, you nitpicking doofus.

You seem tense :pac:

Johnny Red Cab · 22-01-2019 9:08pm

Loads of Catholic fundamentalists about these days.

Austria! · 22-01-2019 9:18pm

Rezident wrote: »

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

People working min wage are not in an ideal situation either.
In fact I'm sure there's women who were in that situation and gave it up to pursue sex work.

Galwayguy35 · 22-01-2019 9:36pm

It should be made legal like in other countries, it makes it safer for the hookers and the lads who want to pay for sex.

Although I can remember when it was illegal to buy Playboy so I can't see our spineless politicians moving on this any time soon.

Berserker · 22-01-2019 9:44pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It should be made legal like in other countries, it makes it safer for the hookers and the lads who want to pay for sex.

It doesn't make is safer for either. The RLD in Amsterdam is well know for social issues after dark.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Amsterdam is a disgrace as a result of their laws in that regard. Beautiful city ruined.

Spent a lot of time in Amsterdam down through the years for work and I've been to the RLD once, in the afternoon, with my OH, to see what it was all about. Amsterdam is an amazing city, the RLD is a very small part of the city. Don't let it or the coffee shops put you off going to there.

LeBash wrote: »

I'd say we would legalise it if it went to referendum. I don't get the problem at all, he wanted to blow a load, she wanted money and was happy enough to allow him do it for the money.

Is there anything more sickening than people trying to force their morals on others?

Hmm, just like you want to force your morals on everyone else and legalise it? Also, I disagree with you about a referendum. No major political party would promote legalising it.

Church on Tuesday · 22-01-2019 9:47pm

lbc2019 wrote: »

Ronan Mullen pushed for this law, ergo, I'm against it.

Him and those fecking nuns!

The atypical do gooder.

Lads like him creep me out

paw patrol · 22-01-2019 10:05pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It couldn’t be the worlds oldest profession, because it isn’t a profession in the first place -

any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.

I think you are wrong.

being a good hooker requires all this. Just as there are good and bad plumbers , there are good and bad hookers. It's a profession.

One eyed Jack · 22-01-2019 10:26pm

paw patrol wrote: »

I think you are wrong.

being a good hooker requires all this. Just as there are good and bad plumbers , there are good and bad hookers. It's a profession.

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

McCrack · 22-01-2019 10:47pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

Arguable

22-01-2019 11:09pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

I'd have to disagree Jack, you'd need to be an excellent actress and have a stomach of steel imo if you're looking for for repeat custom.

Pythagorean · 22-01-2019 11:13pm

LeBash wrote: »

I'd say we would legalise it if it went to referendum. I don't get the problem at all, he wanted to blow a load, she wanted money and was happy enough to allow him do it for the money.

Is there anything more sickening than people trying to force their morals on others? If you have a problem with prostitutes, then just don't visit them. Those people are so organised though that they get sh1t done regardless of it not being the will of the majority and I think half of it is immature politicians not willing to debate it in case they are painted as perverts in public.

There seems to be a growing tendency to pass very harsh laws in this country, which seek to clamp down on fairly low level offences, eg 1 pint and you're off the road type of thing. I suspect that pressure groups are getting their way by exploiting the precarious situation of the Government and as a result legislation reflects some groups view of what is "the right thing to do", rather than legislation which is for the common good, and deals with real crimes, rather than moral infringements.

Sonic Youth · 22-01-2019 11:19pm

What is to stop me going on a certain website and paying a woman to spend a half hour with me? If we end up having sex, well great, but I'm just paying her to hang out with me.

paleoperson · 22-01-2019 11:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing I have thought of doing a few times but never got the finger out - is to create and host a consumer site similar to Escort Ireland. So rather than a site for the escorts to advertise themselves and their wares - the consumer advertises themselves and their desires and any details they want to share.

Who knows how many escorts would actually use such a site but I think it worthy of the attempt in that _done right_ anything that allows a sex worker to be more selective in choosing clients - is going to improve the environment of their work.

No, because they would just pick all the good-looking guys, who you acknowledge are the ones more likely to be cheating on someone. That's nothing to do with rights, that's just picking and choosing. It would be encouraging prostitutes to reject clients for superficial traits such as being ugly, old, lacking muscles, short, disabled (to a greater or lesser extent) and so on. Where's your "soft spot in my heart" for those people? It goes against the whole idea of prostitution, who wants "Chad" to get laid again?

Your website idea is laughable because I don't know how you expect thousands of clients to go on an internet site showing their profiles and advertising themselves to pay for sex, that's absurd.

greencap · 22-01-2019 11:35pm

McCrack wrote: »

Arguable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOmqNKAuYdM

from 01:50

Depends on the number of punters.

jimmycrackcorm · 22-01-2019 11:43pm

Berserker wrote:

It doesn't make is safer for either. The RLD in Amsterdam is well know for social issues after dark.

Which are similar to any other area that draws people in.
Dudbridge Temple Bar have its own issues that day Grafton street doesn't?

Feisar · 22-01-2019 11:45pm

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Berserker · 22-01-2019 11:54pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Which are similar to any other area that draws people in.
Dudbridge Temple Bar have its own issues that day Grafton street doesn't?

Not really. Dam square, which is very close to the RLD, draws people in and it is safe after dark. I'd happily stroll around there after dark. Ditto for the likes of Prinsengracht (Anne Frank house).

Sonic Youth · 22-01-2019 11:56pm

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

Feisar · 23-01-2019 12:02am

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

hey, equality!

son/brother/father!!!!

Austria! · 23-01-2019 1:22am

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Do you mean because of the stigma or because they're in a precarious situation thanks to all their customers being criminals?

Anyway, if I loved her and thought she loved me, then yeah, I would.

Guy:Incognito · 23-01-2019 1:31am

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

I wouldnt want my daughter/sister/mother to have to do backbreaking labour on a building site to earn a living but at the end of the day it's not my choice what they do.

A few years back we decided itd be nice to let the wimmin folk make up their own minds. We let them vote and all now you know.

Sonic Youth · 23-01-2019 1:36am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I wouldnt want my daughter/sister/mother to have to do backbreaking labour on a building site to earn a living but at the end of the day it's not my choice what they do.

A few years back we decided itd be nice to let the wimmin folk make up their own minds. We let them vote and all now you know.

You really think young women from Romania and Lativa are flying to Ireland to pursue their dream of having sex with fat pasty Irishmen? Haha.

Andrew00 · 23-01-2019 1:38am

65 year old grandfather goes out riding a dirty hooker dirty some alleyway

Guy:Incognito · 23-01-2019 1:49am

Sonic Youth wrote: »

You really think young women from Romania and Lativa are flying to Ireland to pursue their dream of having sex with fat pasty Irishmen? Haha.

I suppose they could stay in Romania and Latvia and ride fat Romanians and Latvians for a fraction of the amount.

Unless you think only Male models in Romania and Latvia use prostitutes.

I'm sure there are arses to be wiped in old folks homes and hosputals in the Philippines but for some reason healthcare staff seem to like coming over to wipe Irish arses.........

Sonic Youth · 23-01-2019 1:51am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I suppose they could stay in Romania and Latvia and ride fat Romanians and Latvians for a fraction of the amount.

Unless you think only Male models in Romania and Latvia use prostitutes.

I'm sure there are arses to be wiped in old folks homes and hosputals in the Philippines but for some reason healthcare staff seem to like coming over to wipe Irish arses.........

Comparing nurses to prostitute...ok. Pretty sure the pimps force them over here to work. You sound like a very naive person.

Guy:Incognito · 23-01-2019 2:08am

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Comparing nurses to prostitute...ok. Pretty sure the pimps force them over here to work. You sound like a very naive person.

Comparing one job to another. Why would anyone come here to work in your opinion? Money maybe?

As for trafficking, that's illegal and a matter for the authorities. Arresting the man in the story isnt going to stop that.

Providing legal , safe brothels can only reduce the amount of people looking to use dodgy illegal ones.

23-01-2019 8:43am

paleoperson wrote: »

No, because they would just pick all the good-looking guys, who you acknowledge are the ones more likely to be cheating on someone.

That is a value judgement that has nothing to do with the intent of such a site however. The intent of the site would be to allow sex workers to choose their clients _if_ they so wished. Value judgements about who they then pick or why - well not my concern or problem. Nor should it be.

That said though I do not think it an automatic given that such a site would include pictures in the first place - due to privacy concerns - nor do I think it a given they would automatically pick the "good looking guys" at all. They might see the less than good looking guys as being a greater potential for higher income and repeat business for example.

paleoperson wrote: »

That's nothing to do with rights, that's just picking and choosing.

Interesting though I never suggested such a site would be anything to do with rights in the first place. What I did say was that I thought it an interesting idea to improve the environment in which sex workers work by giving them the ability to choose their clients in an atmosphere where currently sites like Escort Ireland only give the clients the ability to choose the service provider.

I never suggest this improves rights or that anyone has the right to such a site or any of that. I simply wondered out loud if their working environment might be improved by such a site. I think it might. Especially as it's use would be optional not compulsory.

paleoperson wrote: »

It would be encouraging prostitutes to reject clients for superficial traits such as being ugly, old, lacking muscles, short, disabled

Which they are more than welcome to do. I see nothing wrong with that. And in fact a quick look over Escort Ireland last time this subject came up on boards and I was perusing the site (research doncha know) I noticed that in fact a few escorts specifically mentioned they tailor for disabled people specifically.

You see I do not care about your personal "idea of prostitution". I care about people in sex work and how best to improve their working conditions. Just like I care about anyone in any kind of work and how we might improve their working conditions.

paleoperson wrote: »

Your website idea is laughable because I don't know how you expect thousands of clients to go on an internet site showing their profiles and advertising themselves to pay for sex, that's absurd.

I appreciate the feedback as it is the first time I floated the idea out loud. But I do not "expect" that at all. So the foundation of your finding it absurd is one that does not exist in what I proposed. Which is itself quite absurd. So right back atcha kid.

No I see it as an _option_ to augment already existing structures. Not one to replace anything at all. I would expect if I did such a site that 98% of people would still chose their sex worker through sites like Escort Ireland. But sites like Escort Ireland also do not appear to make it easy to contact sex workers with specific requests for specific times or services or questions. At best they appear to have something in their software that _attempts_ to tell you how often or quickly an escort responds to messages. Nothing more.

So anyone with specific requests or time restrictions could potentially _also_ use a site like the one I proposed to say what they want specifically, when they are available in general, and so forth. And an escort siting around with no current client lined up could peruse such a site to augment the sources of sex work he or she already has and say "Actually I can provide that service" or "Actually I have no work lined up at that time" and then contact the client.

Nothing laughable or absurd about any of that that I can see. Enlighten me as to where you see the problem. Especially as the "expectations" you seem to feel it creates - are simply not there.

23-01-2019 8:47am

Rezident wrote: »

The demand for heroin will always be there but that does not mean you should legalize it, as that will certainly increase the problem.

I am not sure that is "certain" at all. But I would take it on a drug by drug basis. Certainly one of the advantages of a legal regulated product or service - be it a drug or sex work - is that in theory at least we have can have an industry standard regulated product that is not cut with any old byproduct the dealer has lying around to maximize his profits. And we can work on researching less addictive alternatives and so forth.

Of course I say "in theory" because it is different on a drug by drug basis, but also because we have seen what alcohol has done to many in our society and meanwhile the Cigarette industry have not exactly been free of accusations of cutting materials into the base product specifically to make it more addictive.

Rezident wrote: »

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

Can the same not be said about anyone being hired into minimum wage jobs, or jobs with a rolling non-permanent contract, and more? Many people are not in ideal situations and they take up work and options they would not otherwise move towards. And many people are happy to take advantage of their needs. It is not ideal that we live in a world where that happens and we should do our best to combat it in general. Not by singling out one particular industry or product or service from all the rest and act like they are the culprits.

Take the people I mentioned before from the next town over from me. Polish people imported en masse to do mundane warehouse work and food production work in manufacturing for the lowest wage possible. Was their situation ideal? Were Musgraves and Leaf taking advantage? Probably. So why single out sex work for this when others are doing it all the time?

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

Rezident wrote: »

If prostitution was ok then people would be ok with their mother or sister or daughter being a prostitute.

And in theory I absolutely am. My daugther is currently 8. If she came to me at 18 and told me she planned to enter sex work then I would make sure she was fully informed of the issues that work has, had thought all her options through, and if she still was intent this was the chosen career path for her then I would absolutely support her and be ok with that. And guess what? I would do all the same things if she came to me saying she wanted to be a nurse a doctor or a police officer or just about everything else too.

I do not see my job as a parent to control what careers my children do or do not enter or to "be ok" or not "be ok" with whatever their choices are. I see my job as a parent to ensure I spent the first 18 years of their life equipping them with the tools and education and personal traits with which to make those decisions for themselves - and to then support them fully in making and following their own choices.

There is a certain hubris though in the idea of "wanting" your daughter or sister to work at X. As if - ultimately - it is any of our business really or what we "want" is at all relevant. But if it comes to "wants" then sure there are certain careers that I would personally like to see my sister or daughter enter into over others. Sex work is by far not the end of the list. There are many things below it. I would prefer - as one random example - they were earning their money in a bed in a hotel room having sex than I would have them taking fire in the front lines of a war zone as part of a career in the military. I would prefer they earn work sexually and be happy with their career choice than spent 35 years flipping burgers in McDonalds if they find themselves contemplating suicide every day.

My primary concern in other words is with _their_ well being and happiness. Not what career they happen to find it in. I would prefer them to be happy in sex work - than miserable as a top paid medical doctor. I do not think our role is to protect women from their own choices. They fought hard for the right to work and the right to vote. Leave them at it to make their own choices.

Sonic Youth · 23-01-2019 9:16am

TaxAH, I do not believe for one second you'd be happy with your daughter being a hooker, getting fcuked by 20 men a day.

23-01-2019 9:47am

You are not required to believe it - it remains true none the less.

I repeat however for the sake of it - my concern as a parent is that my children grow up to choose a career that makes them happy. What that career actually turns out to be - once it meets that criteria - I truly care not.

The whole "20 men a day" thing however I have never really bought into. I have no idea what the statistics are about average clientelle to be honest. But at the rates they charge they would not require more than 5 men in a week for one hour to have a take home pay equivalent to my own. A girl I went to college with and still keep in contact with subsidised her education quite well by having one sex client for 2 years whom she met twice a week. And it basically paid all her costs and expenses as a student.

sbsquarepants · 23-01-2019 9:49am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Plumbers, mechanics and electricians aren’t in short supply, and while their industries are enormously profitable (I feel like I’m being shafted by the electrician and the plumber and the painters I have in to do work recently, not even so much as a courtesy reach around :pac:), they aren’t nearly as profitable as the sexual exploitation industry which is more akin to modern day slavery. It’s profitable because it operates in a black market economy, and would still operate in a black market economy if it were legalised and regulated. Any prostitutes I know don’t want it legalised and regulated because this hurts their bottom line - it’s not as profitable any more and they are now on the hook to pay tax..

A: A reach around is standard, you're being robbed!

B: I'm not sure about mechanics, but plumbers and electricians are very much in short supply. A lot of them also don't like paying tax (I'm not overly fond myself but as a PAYE slave I find it hard to avoid)
There is very much an "underground" plumbing scene, operating in the black (grey?) economy and hiding from the tax man, it just involves less nudity and more copper piping!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Women’s right to be a prostitute isn’t one I’m familiar with, and so the existence of a small number of women who voluntarily sell themselves is akin to the number of gay men who voted against marriage equality. There’s always a small handful who claim to represent the majority, when in reality the only people they represent are themselves..

Do you think a woman has the right to have sex with whoever she wants?

Let's leave aside the coercion end of it, lets assume this woman is happy to sell sex, do you think she should be allowed or not?

I personally can not understand how it can be legal to give something away, but illegal to sell it, unless you attribute some magical quality to sex - which I just don't. It's a physical act like any other.

You can charge someone to rub their shoulders, why can you not charge them to rub their dick?
People get paid to fight all the time and that's fine, but they can't get paid to fúck....cos that would be wrong. How's that make sense?

Make love not war and all that Jack!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Knee trembler with some 6 toothed brass monkey under a canal bridge does appear to be by far the more popular option as opposed to the local girls in your area who want to meet you advertised online, or the mega-brothels in other countries. Let’s be real - Wayne Rooney could have had his pick of the bunch, and he went for... well, she was no looker :pac:.

Rooney is bell end, that's all you can really take from that!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Twas Candie who mentioned the feminist nuns, I don’t think she was serious either. But you’re quite right in pointing out that there isn’t simply one particular movement opposed to prostitution, there are many, whereas the lobby groups publicly campaigning against prostitution laws, are very few, and scratch beneath the surface of any of those organisations too and you don’t be long uncovering corruption and the shady fcuks profiting from the exploitation of women.

But there is one particular movement - the one which feels it's wrong or dirty to sell your body and that the act of sex is somehow special, as if only a tramp would profit off her vagina but there's nobility in being paid to remove skid marks from a corporate jacks!
The vast majority of us get paid to do something we'd rather not, from mild inconvenience down to downright hatred of the job we're at. We do it for money - it's the human condition.
I don't "want" to be here now, I'm here cos they are paying me to be!

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well they travel here to work as nurses while irish people are describing it as horrifically low paid and akin to slave labour.?

That's different!

Don't ask me how though:D

Nobody grows up in the backstreets of Riga dreaming of getting their big break to come to Ireland and sit behind a till in Lidl. Very few people love their jobs, I certainly have never met anyone who genuinely did, they do it for the money and we all accept that that's just how it is.

Take the nurses for example - it's a vocation, a calling, we all love it - then shut the fúck up and do it, stop demanding more money for it. You're doing it for the money - and that's fine, best of luck to you. I'm doing the same!

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are you implying that every prostitute in the world is forced to do it?

Look at the porn industry - same argument was offered there, these are broken women being exploited (some no doubt were) but then the tube sites came along and were inundated with millions of people, men and women, perfectly happy to produce it just for the craic!

They aren't being exploited, they can't ALL be broken. What gives?

It's almost as if some people just have different views to others!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

Hookers aren't my thing at all - but every clown knows that some can charge far more than others. There must be something to differentiate them!

Sonic Youth · 23-01-2019 9:52am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You are not required to believe it - it remains true none the less.

I repeat however for the sake of it - my concern as a parent is that my children grow up to choose a career that makes them happy. What that career actually turns out to be - once it meets that criteria - I truly care not.

The whole "20 men a day" thing however I have never really bought into. I have no idea what the statistics are about average clientelle to be honest. But at the rates they charge they would not require more than 5 men in a week for one hour to have a take home pay equivalent to my own. A girl I went to college with and still keep in contact with subsidised her education quite well by having one sex client for 2 years whom she met twice a week. And it basically paid all her costs and expenses as a student.

The pimp decides how many men they have to fcuk.

If you'd be happy with daughter being a hooker then I'd consider you a pretty crap parent.

23-01-2019 9:56am

Sonic Youth wrote: »

The pimp decides how many men they have to fcuk.

Have you details on this? I am not sure if the Pimp dynamic is all that relevant or prevalent in Ireland at all. How many are free lance? How many have a "pimp" or other agent? I simply do not have the statistics. Do you? Certainly looking around the _hundreds_ of sex workers on Escort Ireland I see no evidence of that dynamic in play. So the evidence for it must be elsewhere.

Sonic Youth wrote: »

If you'd be happy with daughter being a hooker then I'd consider you a pretty crap parent.

Then it is lucky that your value judgements are not at all relevant to me. I personally think crap parenting is expecting my children to fit moulds of my design and expectation as if they are somehow not individuals in their own right.

However it is always curious that the majority of people who go on internet forums making value judgements of parents - are themselves not parents and likely have not the first flying f*k of a clue what they are on about.

Again my standard of measure of my parenting is that my child is happy and grows up to make decisions that make them happy.

_What_ those decisions are is not my concern nor do I see any reason why it should be.

facehugger99 · 23-01-2019 10:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

And in theory I absolutely am. My daugther is currently 8. If she came to me at 18 and told me she planned to enter sex work then I would make sure she was fully informed of the issues that work has, had thought all her options through, and if she still was intent this was the chosen career path for her then I would absolutely support her and be ok with that. And guess what? I would do all the same things if she came to me saying she wanted to be a nurse a doctor or a police officer or just about everything else too.

:rolleyes:

People will say anything to 'win' an internet argument.

Sonic Youth · 23-01-2019 10:03am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then it is lucky that your value judgements are not at all relevant to me. I personally think crap parenting is expecting my children to fit moulds of my design and expectation as if they are somehow not individuals in their own right.

However it is always curious that the majority of people who go on internet forums making value judgements of parents - are themselves not parents and likely have not the first flying f*k of a clue what they are on about.

Again my standard of measure of my parenting is that my child is happy and grows up to make decisions that make them happy.

_What_ those decisions are is not my concern nor do I see any reason why it should be.

You seem incrediably naive about the world. You think young eastern European girls who are hot enough to be models really want to come to Ireland to suck off losers who can't get the ride like the rest of us? Or gross old guys who have a thing for young girls?

Man, wake up.

sbsquarepants · 23-01-2019 10:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

Again my standard of measure of my parenting is that my child is happy and grows up to make decisions that make them happy.

_What_ those decisions are is not my concern nor do I see any reason why it should be.

I have 4 daughters. 1 adult and 3 young kids. I would absolutely hate for any of them to go into that line of work....but at the end of the day I would rather that they be happy themselves, than make themselves unhappy for my sake.
It's their lives after all!

Very little about life is black and white.

23-01-2019 10:11am

facehugger99 wrote: »

People will say anything to 'win' an internet argument.

If you say so but I am genuine in that my goal as a parent personally is that my child be happy. Micromanaging what choices they make to get to that point is not my role. Giving them the tools to do it themselves however, is.

Sonic Youth wrote: »

You seem incrediably naive about the world. You think young eastern European girls who are hot enough to be models really want to come to Ireland to suck off losers who can't get the ride like the rest of us? Or gross old guys who have a thing for young girls?

Man, wake up.

Childish and unwarranted petty personal insults aside I am not sure what you are replying to as nothing you just wrote here appears relevant to anything in the post you are actually replying to. You have just run off on a complete tangent seemingly.

But no - I have made no comment at all about the thing you just told me I think. So perhaps putting your words in my mouth is not the correct move here?

What I do think however is that there is a lot of assumption in your post there too. For example "losers who cant get the ride" is your value judgement and assumption. There is no reason to think it true and in fact I would suspect a significant proportion of their client base is from men and women already in relationships "like the rest of us". So the naivety here appears to be yours and you are merely projecting it my way. And I doubt you have any more evidence for it than the statistics on pimps you just failed to produce when asked either.

Further I would not suspect _anyone_ came here for work really wanted to do so without asking them first. The many polish people working in the next town over from me for the last 15 years getting minimum wage doing mundane awful work in warehousing and food production for Leaf Candy - I doubt they really wanted it either. Certainly the ones I spoke to did not. Nor did the Syrian Lady I met in Germany who was cleaning toilets after fleeing her country where she was a doctor. So what is your point exactly? Economic migrants and refugees deserve our sympathy and compassion. Sex work is not unique in this.

Berserker · 23-01-2019 10:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

A girl I went to college with and still keep in contact with subsidised her education quite well by having one sex client for 2 years whom she met twice a week. And it basically paid all her costs and expenses as a student.

I'd love to get an idea how many students do this kind of thing? A girl I roomed with in university was the guaranteed date for a dating agency. Was a tidy bit of cash for her every week or so.

23-01-2019 10:15am

Berserker wrote: »

I'd love to get an idea how many students do this kind of thing?

As would I actually. And if it is a lot of people then it might serve to have such statistics public. As it would go a long way to de-stigmatizing sex work if it turned out a substantial proportion of people being judgemental about it were themselves at it.

I think my entirely subjective _feeling_ on it is that if anyone did do a study that gave us the figures - it would be a clear tiny minority but still high enough to be surprising.

Certainly the Escort who did an AMA on this site some time ago seemed to claim that pretty much all her friends, family and contact were entirely unaware of her work.

Man, 65, convicted of purchasing sex in landmark prostitution case

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