General gaming discussion

Markitron · 08-02-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600465#Comment_118600465

I love Dark Souls but IMO the lore is amateur dark fantasy nonsense and it's delivery leaves a lot to be desired. I don't actually have a problem with this as it is more than adequate to set up the great atmosphere of the series. There is a reason they got outside help to set up the lore of Elden Ring.

pixelburp · 08-02-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600185#Comment_118600185

Mass Effect would be the one to come to mind immediately; but it had the benefit of being a trilogy, while its 4th entry was more a side-story that intentionally sidestepped the "main plot" by moving to a whole different galaxy. Either way, there was an attempt to craft something structurally consistent, the Star Wars/Trek inspirations clearly forming that rigidity.

Half Life, maybe? The writing on Half Life 2 onwards doesn't get enough credit; its world-building subtle and backgounded enough to let the player fill the gaps in themselves - as well as clever use of environmental design to help them do that. It also understood the value of keeping some things mysterious and unknowable, helping maintain that sense of Gordon Freeman / Alyx merely being pawns in ... something larger. While its characters had a good sense of grounding.

Overall though, I'd agree. Most game "lore" is deadweight at best, and indulgent garbage at worst. But TBH, good writing in gaming is rare enough across the board, let alone writing that informs a world or myth cycle.

awec · 08-02-2022 3:47pm

The Last of Us 2 is a game I tried to push through to complete just for the story but I had to give up. I got to the point where you switch characters and that was it for me, couldn't take any more.

If a game doesn't grab me within the first few hours I'm likely to just give up.

Retr0gamer · 08-02-2022 3:58pm

Sorry but Mass Effect lore is nonsense. The whole premise is the same ancient horror coming back to destroy the world and nobody listening and Bioware have been cribbing that storyline ever since one of them read Game of Thrones and decided it was a good idea to steal. The lore codex is full of badly written nonsense and the best way to play the game is to totally ignore it as reading all the entries actively slows the game down and makes it less interesting when you realise that it's just recycled sci-fi and fantasy tropes.

08-02-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600185#Comment_118600185

I think The Elder Scrolls lore is class, though I don't think the games do a great job of explaining it, it's more stored in books which only a few turbo nerds read.

But when summarised the lore is fun to dive into. I like how it's told through the unreliable narrator, which is exactly how ancient history in real life works.

The YouTube channel Shoddycast does a fairly extensive lore series, for those interested.

Penn · 08-02-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600503#Comment_118600503

The Dark Souls lore consists of watching 6 VaatiVidya videos where he explains how the markings on each of the individual bosses' clothes means they're a tragic figure for (reasons) and you should feel bad for killing them.

Retr0gamer · 08-02-2022 4:10pm

I do think a good lore bible during game development is really useful and can flavour the game unconsciously. However I think developers need to get over their habit of trying to shove that lore bible down players throats because they are so in love with it. They need to leave the ego at the door and realise show don't tell is much better.

Dark Souls is probably a good medium. You really don't need to read it to enjoy the games but if you really want to be a lore turbo nerd, it's all there for you to immerse yourself in. I actually think playing the games blind is much better than knowing the story as most From games are about the player being manipulated by greater powers who try to keep the truth from them so they will carry out their objectives.

Markitron · 08-02-2022 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600745#Comment_118600745

Yup. Bloodborne was the most annoying, that actually had a decent backstory. Well I think it did, for all I know Vaati could have made it all up.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 08-02-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600764#Comment_118600764

Agreed, there needs to be a distinction with how lore is handled. As mentioned, Mass Effect, and I'd say to a degree, the likes of Halo / Destiny are in the same category, in that the lore is great, IF you go to the bother of looking at an internal codex or to external sources to read walls of text or exposition dumps on a youtube video - destiny in particular has an amazing backstory, but you cant experience any of it in game, so it may as well exist as a separate property altogether.

With The From Software games, the lore is woven into things like item descriptions, where its up to you to figure out the purpose of each individual item, while learning a bit of background on the way. Granted - a lot of people just head straight to a wiki page to look this up, but you can see that there was a bit of thought involved in having it the way it is.

Witcher 3 has loads of in game books, and letters that really add colour to the world, but I would think are largely ignored as they're optional, and likely not engaged with by the majority of the player base.

Retr0gamer · 08-02-2022 5:03pm

I remember my first few hours of mass effect and hating how slow it was. I choose to ignore all the codex entries and that's yeh exact point the game clicked with me and I started to enjoy it.

08-02-2022 10:42pm

Does anybody else with a SNES-mini find the following two issues irritating as well, (a) the controller wire length, and (b) the flap that opens up at the front to insert controllers? The miniature design is neat, though the opening at the front detracts from it. The controller wires should have been minimum 10 feet with the option for wireless controllers instead of having to rely on third party manufacturers such as 8bitdo etc.

The SNES means a lot to me as it was my first console- I still have fond memories of unwrapping the All-Stars Super Nintendo bundle on Christmas Day 1993. While I think I'll be playing SNES games for the rest of my life, Nintendo as a company really pisses me off. The Switch has amazing and beautifully designed games, yet the console's hardware is substandard and gimmicky. Why can't Nintendo create quality products like it once did? I also consider the "Nintendo does things differently and isn't out to compete with Microsoft and Sony etc." to be a cop out. They have more than enough resources to create quality hardware, or at least somewhat decent. The mentality within modern Nintendo just smacks of greed and laziness.

08-02-2022 10:47pm

Late to the party here but I'm enjoying Halo Infinite. Its just good fun, nothing more to say than that.

I heard there is a lull in the game, I think I'm there where its forcing me to traverse across the map. Nothing I can't get through, bit slightly annoying trying to find.a vehicle (that I haven't already destroyed!)

Grumpypants · 08-02-2022 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600619#Comment_118600619

You stopped right as it got good. They should have cut all the Ellie and Joel stuff and just went with the far better character of Abby. Would have been a way better game.

08-02-2022 11:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603243#Comment_118603243

Honestly, I thought the story was dreadful.

Retr0gamer · 09-02-2022 9:01am

The Abby section was better but better but still wasnt great. It's another game I wished I'd given up on as it wasn't great. I actually enjoyed the combat a bit but the writing was some pretty amateur melodrama.

recyclops · 09-02-2022 9:11am

If it was multi platform it would have been long forgotten

pixelburp · 09-02-2022 9:22am

The Last of Us 2. Hoo-boy. For one hot second that was the biggest, worst, most toxic/heated/animated/etc. debate going round. Now it's arguably a relic & utterly forgotten. Funny how quickly the wheel turns now.

petes · 09-02-2022 10:34am

I still have TLOU2 installed, will give it another play through at 60fps at some stage, I really enjoyed it bit the gameplay and the story, couldn't give a fork about the debate on it.

McFly85 · 09-02-2022 10:36am

That was the only game in recent memory that I saw through to the end while getting pretty much zero enjoyment out of it. I had played the remastered first game in preparation and I don’t recall it really adding anything gameplay wise.

It weirdly hinted at the start that you’d have more freedom before snapping you back into increasingly contrived walk from a to b quests. I only finished it because I kept thinking I was near the end on multiple occasions.

Mr.Saturn · 09-02-2022 10:57am

I think it’s cause I played pretty much back to back in 2020, but so much of the TLOU2 feel like it’s desperately trying to ape the highs of the first one and doesn’t know how to get there beyond just inflating the scale without really knowing why and remixing set pieces from the first, such as the sniper sequence or the stalker sequence. They’re not new, they’re not any more nail-biting, they’re just a lot longer and I found myself just tired by the end of it.

The Rat King fight was an absolute banger, though.

The Raging Bile Duct · 09-02-2022 11:12am

The Rat King boss fight had a real bang of Resident Evil off it. Really enjoyed that.

Also, the part in the subway where I threw a brick and that was enough to set the clickers on the gang coming after me was great.

The game is too long though. I might play it again on the PS5 for the 60fps gameplay but it would very much be an hour here or there like I'm doing with the Uncharted 4 remaster rather than ploughing through it again.

Retr0gamer · 09-02-2022 11:17am

I actually thought the gameplay was a step up in TLOU 2. The remote mines that Ellie had were hilariously brutal.

It's the narrative and pacing I had issues with. It said so little by saying so much. It retcons the first game to shoehorn in a sequel. Ellie's arc is by far the worst. It's like Joel's camp produced a squad of batmen that are zipping around Abby's camp taking out an army of people. It's flat out ridiculous. And Ellie is like the worst horror film heroine. You're screaming at her to just walk away and she just keeps making bad decisions so much so that she becomes a cartoon caricature dumb dumb.

At least with Abby's story she has actual agency even if all the characters are unlikeable and annoying. And that's not to say it ever even verges into good as her entire plot is a 'save the dog' trope told for way too long.

09-02-2022 11:35am

The pacing of the story was all over the place.

Mr.Saturn · 09-02-2022 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604423#Comment_118604423

It really is a game crying out for a really disciplined editor. So much of TLOU2 feels like it’s there because someone said ‘**** it, throw it in, can’t hurt.’ You could hack, at least, a third off the game and have it be a superior experience.

johnny_ultimate · 09-02-2022 11:44am

There was a brief sweet spot in the late 00s / early 10s where AAA games were just the right length to tell their story properly without getting really bogged down. Uncharted 2 is a perfect example: no fuss, just a good old rollicking adventure story that doesn't overstay its welcome. Maybe there was an unnecessary multiplayer mode tagged on here and there, but it was mostly ignorable.

Alas, games have become so bloated almost as a rule now. Uncharted 4 and TLOU2 are perfect examples: their sheer length undermines the good stuff they do (although they were flawed in many other ways too, especially TLOU2). At least The Lost Legacy was a proper throwback to Uncharted 2 - tight, focused and fun. Most crucially, it was over before you could start zoning out.

I know it's never going to happen, but Left Behind and Lost Legacy to me show Naughty Dog would almost be better focusing on smaller, lower-budget games released more regularly rather than the big numbered sequels. Alas, it's an impossible dream - especially since Druckmann is Naughty Dog's number one creative now and probably the worst offender for over-extending the stories he's trying to tell.

awec · 09-02-2022 11:56am

I thought the original Last of Us was far too long as well. I enjoyed the story but definitely there were quite a few hours at the end where I wish it would just finish, and I just kept playing cause I thought I must surely be about to complete it. It was sunk-cost at that stage.

The game is all about being slow and methodical, which doesn't help either. It makes a long game feel even longer. The tense nature of it too cause me some issues, constantly feeling on edge, like after playing for a while you'd have to pause it and walk around the house or something to try feel less stressed! Maybe that was just me, but I struggled.

TitianGerm · 09-02-2022 12:01pm

I still haven't played TLOU2 and probably won't for a while yet.

I did enjoy the first one but the QTE kinda takes me out of the story. They're fine in something like Spiderman but not in a story game like TLOU.

Sony do love putting QTE into their games though.

09-02-2022 12:09pm

The complete absence of player agency is laid bare when that fight happens in the middle and many streamers died on purpose.

I don't want to spoil things so I'm being vague.

SomeSayKos · 09-02-2022 3:58pm

I thought TLOU2 was a better game than the first one overall. The gameplay was a lot more fun and I mostly preferred the story to the first game. I dont think there needs to be a third game though and I'd like to see Naughty Dog do something completely new.

Benzino · 09-02-2022 8:46pm

I guess I'm one of the few that enjoyed TLOU2 🙂 Hope there is a sequel or at least another game in the same universe.

But more importantly, I hope they add MP to TLOU2. The MP in the original was superb.

Zero-Cool · 09-02-2022 9:09pm

I loved TLOU 2 but i was drained after finishing it. Went straight into another playthrough though for the platinum and realised then how much better out would have been if they took out a bunch of the encounters. I got the plat about 70% through the 2nd playthrough and couldn't even finish it, haven't touched it since and I've cleared TLOU1 about 7 times, just didn't have that same replayability for me.

Saying that, i wished they'd announce Factions 2 already, absolutely incredible multiplayer.

Retr0gamer · 10-02-2022 12:15am

In a better world we would all be getting excited about the Klonoa 1 and 2 remaster that was just announced.

Potential-Monke · 10-02-2022 1:03am

Dark Souls has great lore/story... sure it does! Shur fans only ever talk about the lore/story! [rolleyes emoji]

Legacy of Kain would be my pick. If you can slightly ignore Blood Omen 2 that is, which isn't bad, but is the worst of them. But (imo) excellently written story of destiny and history, with gothic vampiric stories interwoven, and still the best voice cast and performance of any game ever. But like everything, it's all down to the person. I love fantastical, non-realistic stories (I consume entertainment to get away from the realities of life, not remind me of them, think it's why I'm finding it hard to feel anything for any of the characters in DL2, but the gameplay is fun!). I loved the lore and world of Mass Effect and thought they did an amazing job, old tropes or not (which were still fresh enough at release). I also enjoyed the light, tongue in cheek approach Immortals Fenyx Rising did.

I couldn't bring myself through TLOU again, only played it on launch and not since. I don't think I like those types of games anymore as any interest I had in a sequel waned years ago, and while it looks stunning, the feedback from 2 actively puts me off playing it. I want to go back to the days of games being fun to play, not a slog. To me, it's entertainment, shouldn't be work or remind me of life. It's an escape, and everyone likes to escape to something different.

J Mysterio · 10-02-2022 2:17am

I also found the TLOU2 quite draining at times. It did suffer from poor pacing, and I'm not sure there was any discernable beginning, middle, or end.

That said, I did enjoy the Santa Barbara part with Abby near the end - felt bright and fresh and more of an adventure after a fairly dreary slog beforehand.

Was dissapointed both in how Ellie's character evolved into a pretty bitter and twisted individual, and in how Joel died so brutally.

I felt a real attachment for Joel and Ellie following the original game. I enjoyed the natural history museum set piece. 💔

Not sure if there is much value in continuing the story as pretty much have had enough of the remaining characters now.

The game was nonetheless clever insofar as how they played with peoples perception, preconceptions and propensity to judge etc.

Zero-Cool · 11-02-2022 5:25pm

Road 96 is coming to PlayStation in April. Anyone play it worst on switch or pc and recommend it? Sounds interesting.

Grumpypants · 12-02-2022 12:49am

I always felt with TLOU2 if they kept Joel and Ellie out of it and just went with Abby and crew from the start they had a much better opportunity to do something interesting with killing Joel.

If you remember the sniper section where Tommy was taking shots at Abby, it was so frustrating that by the time you got to him you just wanted to kill him.

If they had worked up to a point where the "enemy" was just some unknown that they had built you up to hate. Then there was a boss fight, you kill the boss, feel great for doing it, roll them over, and bam it's Joel.

Then hard cut to the Ellie's revenge part.

At that point you are invested in Abby and there is a conflict.

But it also shows how silly it is to consider Joel and Ellie to be heroes, or anyone in a game that murders hundreds of people without a second thought, to be a hero just because you control them.

J Mysterio · 12-02-2022 1:06pm

Hadn't heard of this - Vigor. Looks pretty good, and free to play on console.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ijiKB00P6no

Zero-Cool · 12-02-2022 1:12pm

It's actually pretty solid, played it ages back when it first released, like a lite survival game but with good graphics and mechanics. I went onto something else fairly quickly but I'd say it would be a laugh with a group on.

wotzgoingon · 12-02-2022 10:20pm

Wow started Halo Infinite and it's amazing. Glad they held back the release date to have a more polished game. I am just after playing from the first up to Halo 4 and this is a major step up. Only one not fresh in my memory is Halo 5. I played 5 around release but forget it already. I know they introduced the climb up a edge in 5 which still made it into Infinite. The grapple hook is cool. I love grabbing onto someone and flying into them.

12-02-2022 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622937#Comment_118622937

I'm enjoying it too. Only thing that bugs me and its the same with all Halo games, there are no NPC's. Everything you come across is an enemy. What's the point in these Halos if nobody lives on them? It gives a very empty feel at times, it needs villages bustling with people going about their business. Random aliens passing by on the road etc.

wotzgoingon · 12-02-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623091#Comment_118623091

The only thing bugging me is the collectibles. Like an eejit running around trying to find them. I'm not that far into the game but spent ages in the first open world part looking for them. Manged to get the upgrade one which is probably the most important one.

12-02-2022 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623128#Comment_118623128

I don't hunt them, just whatever I pick up along the way.

J. Marston · 14-02-2022 6:59pm

Any recommendations for a good budget TV for a PS5? Want to get both the console and the telly for under a grand. So the telly somewhere between 300-400, if possible?

TitianGerm · 14-02-2022 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630926#Comment_118630926

You'll be scaping the bottom of the barrel for a decent TV at that price. You won't get a decent size, it won't get bright enough and won't do 4K120.

I'd suggest making do with your current TV and putting a few bob away for a few months and getting something good.

DeSelby83 · 14-02-2022 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623128#Comment_118623128

The Spartan cores and few other bits show up on the map once you claim the FOB in that location. Only found that out close to the end.

Grumpypants · 14-02-2022 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630926#Comment_118630926

Hisense or the latest TLC (not the older cheaper panels). I've the Hisense, full back lit panel for local dimming. Check out a few reviews. You are in the lower end but still can get something half decent.

Markitron · 15-02-2022 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630926#Comment_118630926

With that budget, you would be best going for a 43" LG 4K TV. The picture quality won't blow you away but they are fairly solid and feature complete. If you need something larger then you are going to have to spend more.

Retr0gamer · 17-02-2022 11:27am

X-Com 2 is not conductive to lowering stress levels and getting to sleep before 2 AM.

Markitron · 17-02-2022 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645445#Comment_118645445

Loved the first one but the constant stress of the second was too much for me, they took it a bit too far.

Retr0gamer · 17-02-2022 1:44pm

I actually much prefer the second game. I was initially wary about the time limits but really they give you enough time to complete the objective. It's a psychological hurdle to get over.

Time limits, Permadeath and randomness for me are the three mechanics that turn people off games but make for really interesting game experiences. I'm guilty of holding off playing games because of them as well. And XCOM 2 has all three in spades.

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