Wales v Ireland match thread

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

I see Gatland has been saying he fancies the Welsh chances in the world cup as they'll be 1 of the fittest sides there...I seem to remember him quoted as saying the same thing after the Ireland game.....
Is he alluding to the fact that the Irish side isn't fit enough in his own sly way?

I wouldn't read too much into it. Ireland are one of the fittest teams around as well. But they're all ultra fit now (except France). You have to be. You're only getting an extra 1-2% at most these days.

Warren ball has already demanded an inhuman fitness and workrate of its players.

Gatland made interesting comments about the psyche and character of the different nationalities he has coached - Ireland, Wasps and Wales and then the Lions of course.

He mentioned how the English players had a natural confidence/cockiness, how the Irish players always spoke up and needed their voice/input to be heard whereas the Welsh players just do what they are told and respond very well to it and would run through a brick wall if asked to do it.

He also mentioned how the army/naval services in the UK have a high Welsh takeup, so it was an interesting take on things.

Wales have always been super fit under Gatland. He took them out to Poland for camps.

I don't think fitness is Ireland's problem though. Playing that possession/rucking game requires a high fitness level. Our backline is just not producing. Having seen Aki at 12 I don't think he is the answer. He isn't a good enough passer.

It is a shame Sexton wasn't tried at 12 with Carberry at 10. It would give us a lot more playmaking options. I don't think we have any other 12 in that mould except maybe Rory Scannell. Robbie Henshaw should be capable of it but is used more often as a battering ram.

The British Eggchasers podcast were of the view that Ireland were very unlucky with the ref and he was quite inconsistent when penalising Ireland. However, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game and Wales were deserved winners. That was my impression of the game when watching in the pub so interesting that a mostly neutral crowd thought the same.

tbm wrote: »

The funniest bit of overreaction I've read the last few days is that our problem is that we beat New Zealand in November....

The best analysis of our current position I've listened to has come from Fiona Steed and BOD, both on on OTB.

I like Steed but she's VERY one eyed.

Sangre wrote: »

The British Eggchasers podcast were of the view that Ireland were very unlucky with the ref and he was quite inconsistent when penalising Ireland. However, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game and Wales were deserved winners. That was my impression of the game when watching in the pub so interesting that a mostly neutral crowd thought the same.

Would like to post my perspective from sitting in the stands. I haven’t watched the game back & prob never will.
Most of what im saying is my gut feeling and some might call it emotional guff.
You have been warned!

What really hit home was the reaction of the Welsh fans around us in the stadium and in the pubs, during and after the game. They we’re embarrassed for us.
I could honestly sense their discomfort at our discomfort! When Sexton duffed that restart one of the Welsh lads put a hand on my shoulder. A few others at different times looked around and gave us the sad eyes! Some of them couldn’t even look us in the eyes.
No triumphalism at our expense. No Banter. Just pity.

This game out of all the losses under Joe is primarily on the players.
Irelands performance just wasn’t acceptable. & the abuse of the officials was a disgrace. Thats never acceptable & the ref is not the reason Ireland lost.

This is Ireland’s 9th loss under Joe in 6N & RWC matches.
Each time I dwell on these defeats I arrive to same old conclusion - when we’re not at our aggressive best from the off and the opposition get an early try, we lack the rugby skills and smarts to regroup. We practically capitulate under this pressure.

I’m not trying to be negative for the sake of it. Im trying to put some reason to the malaise. I hope that performance to be the catalyst for change with Staff and Players. Unfortunately for Joe and Ireland, he has run out road and he is culpable in that.

My feeling is that Ireland now finds itself back in a similar hole to 2013 and 2007. It had reached it’s glorious peak in 2018 and is now in free fall.

Without Toner in the saddle and a good start in a QF, Ireland are in for another humbling. The crisis of confidence has gotten so bad I feel like Scotland and even Japan will fancy doing a number on us. Score a try early and Ireland will crumble like burnt toast.

Will try to post up some coherent stats on the previous losses. Will use them as a reference point to curb my hopes I had 4 short/long months ago.

Will finish this negative assessment with an acknowledgement of the U20’s success. Hopefully, some of those guys make it to the senior side and have the talent and mental strength to forge another Grand Slam side with Furlong, Ryan, Larmour, Leavey, Carbery and Stockdale.

I do think the ref was pretty bad. That gets lost when you lose by 18 points.
Wales did well in keeping the scoreboard ticking over with the penalties.
Did they threaten our line again after the try they scored?
I don't remember much last gasp defending by Ireland, just concession of lots of kickable penalties.

The scrum penalty at the end of the first half was a classic example of a ref being biased against you.
He gave the penalty after the ball had left the scrum with both packs still up and not collapsed.
Think it was given for wheeling. Vast majority of refs wouldn't have given that decision.
There are refs who tell teams to use the ball when both packs are collapsed!

Wales were the better team on the day but the ref certainly helped them.
Combine that with them being very good at defending and they won easily.

vetinari wrote: »

I do think the ref was pretty bad. That gets lost when you lose by 18 points.
Wales did well in keeping the scoreboard ticking over with the penalties.
Did they threaten our line again after the try they scored?
I don't remember much last gasp defending by Ireland, just concession of lots of kickable penalties.

The scrum penalty at the end of the first half was a classic example of a ref being biased against you.
He gave the penalty after the ball had left the scrum with both packs still up and not collapsed.
Think it was given for wheeling. Vast majority of refs wouldn't have given that decision.
There are refs who tell teams to use the ball when both packs are collapsed!

Wales were the better team on the day but the ref certainly helped them.
Combine that with them being very good at defending and they won easily.

Very wrong to say ref was biased against Ireland. Extremely unfair.
Many refs at pro level do say use ball when scrum has collapsed because that is procedure allowed in professional rugby to speed up the game unless there is injury risk/need to stop game to penalise a player/talk to player.
Wales didnt need to threaten the irish line again. They had no need to

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Very wrong to say ref was biased against Ireland. Extremely unfair.
Many refs at pro level do say use ball when scrum has collapsed because that is procedure allowed in professional rugby to speed up the game unless there is injury risk/need to stop game to penalise a player/talk to player.
Wales didnt need to threaten the irish line again. They had no need to

I have no issue with a ref saying use ball if the scrum have collapses.
My issue is with the ref calling a penalty when the scrum hasn't collapsed and the ball has come out of the scrum. At that point, it looks like favoritism.
Getting 18 points from penalties is definitely on the high side for a game.
Ireland would still probably have lost but it would have been a closer game without some of the easy penalties the ref gave Wales.

Nobody stepped up, to say to the players " relax, let's get the ball and do our thing". Massive leadership void against England and Wales. Even against Italy.
I think there was no cool heads to temper the team and the emotions.
I thought they were shell shocked against England and rudderless against Wales.
The level of experience in our side and yet they panicked.
England kicked into space, won collisions and played on their terms.
We didn't really have much of a breakthrough until Cronin darted straight up from a ruck and put Cooney over. There was no variation to our play. It was like banging your head against a wall over and over.
Against Wales, we chased the game and they were happy to sit back and absorb us. They starved us of momentum and played on their terms. We were unable to switch up and put them into uncomfortable positions.
Going into the rwc, it would probably be foolish not to adjust things and keep the opposition guessing.
When the opposition knows what's coming, it easier to deal with.