Wales v Ireland match thread

Deaf student

Thought Ireland played their worst performance today since when?. Think it was some 15 or years ago. Hope it is a temporary blip but it doesn't look like it because last two games that Ireland weren't up to par.

Well done to Wales as they played very well. No excuses really despite referee strange decisions.

Ryan played well today despite outside of him going badly. Though he was the only player that stood out. Others like Stockdale, Earls were average and also other players such as Murray played quite badly, Sexton too, Healy gave away lot of pens as he wasn't subbed at all until late. Any respecting coach sees any player giving away penalties as they take that player off soon as they can. But Schmidt didn't do that until late.The problem was Ireland forward pack played badly as a whole pack as they were falling apart except for Ryan. Beirne not up to international standard yet, POM exposed today more like a limited player than i thought.He is good at lineout and turnovers but he isn't a proper ball carrier that we need to carry out an attack.

Murray shouldn't have played today game at all if some sort of injury hindering him as that is my suspicion although no tangible proof yet. He looked very ponderous and slow re delivery of ball and his pace was off. Marmion came on as it had improved with more urgency and pace..

SOB/Furlong played too many games including the lions & played badly. But some of the Welsh players were on the lions too and played well today. So no excuses really.

Noticed Ireland players inability to think outside of the box as that was down to structured system that Joe built with no room for creativity when it arises say a gap or out of nowhere or gap appeared somewhere than they thought. The players looked more like robotic cos of the structured system. Joe is very conservative & predictable in his selections.Also he is not willing to take more risk or any risk that would expose Ireland system that could fall apart like today.

Once you or any player unlock their system them it's like hanging on the house of cards with no room for maneuver or creative spark.

Noticed Wales were more fitter than Ireland today as they were able to last the whole game including their defence which had gotten more ruthless in tackling which spoke volumes of their mentality and determination as well.

TBH, i don't think it doesn't bode well for Ireland in the coming world cup unless im wrong. Im glad that Ireland's problems had arisen now than at the RWC to enable to fix or plug in the problem.

I do think it's high time to use & experiment some unused players now rather than Schmidt's favoritism and loyalty to his players might backfire , his favorite players flopped like today.

Joe was a great coach as he did tremendously well for Ireland. So he owes us nothing as we are grateful. However it's now time for him to leave perhaps he has outlived his usefulness or gone stale cos it looked to me that other teams have exposed the key to Ireland weakness for all to see and exploit it. Ireland has become more predictable to other teams now.

Favoritism and loyalty has to stop now as it is not giving other new or unused players a chance to prove themselves. It's was like deja vu re Eddie O Sullivan and his loyalty to players all over again. For instance, I like Ruddock but why is he not playing, Cronin etc. Conan did well today as he looked better as a ball carrier rather than a jackal. It was through injuries that Conan proved himself well today. Imagine if it wasn't injuries for sake of an argument,( Joe remained loyal to his players). Ireland wouldn't have gotten a try last week if Conan wasn't selected.

Hope Ireland sort out their problems in the next six months with 4 warm up's games to iron out teething problems to whatever it throws up.

bobbyss

Just drop sexton and anyone else who has been playing poorly. What about all this endless talk of strength in depth? If Wales were fitter than Ireland, well that's inexcusable. Who is responsible for that side of things?

Mike Oxlong

I tried not to post yesterday and look at the match again...I think we have some issues in the side...some players underperforming...some looking jaded...some the game passed by.... but to me throughout... it looked as if we were totally out thought.
We were pressurised ... certain players targeted...the ball kept clear of others...we were the hunters for the past few seasons...we adapted and caught those ahead of us
Trouble is....we haven't stayed there...other side's have adapted... overhauled us...and shown how to beat us... comfortably..... Joe is going to need some proper team gatherings between now and the WC to fix this mess... defensively we were at sea... offensively...we were toothless...he's got 6 months to adapt...else we go home at the QF stage again

Dubinusa

Poorest game from Healy that I can recall!
Beirne should get a run at 6?
POM not at the races at all.
Murray should be dropped. Sexton too.
Carty should have been fielded at half time. Murray should have been replaced a month ago.
This next 8 months will be a last hurrah for a lot of these lads. Farrell should make his mark and impose his style. That would mean a drawing down of a lot of these lads. Post world cup I think we'll see a new look squad within a year.
Schmidt is persistently stubborn and sticks with lads who are underperforming.
He's also limited this side with his playing style. There's no heads up rugby, and when the **** hits the fan, we are lost.

jr86

Talk of us going through a blip and stuff...if anything last year was the outlier year for us. People quickly forget that since RWC 15 last year was the only year we won more than 3 matches. Have we simply just returned to our usual level?

mr_edge_to_you

I was watching Sexton again yesterday. I'm sick of the tantrums and strops he's throwing when things aren't going well. I don't think that's leadership! And I do wonder is there truth in Tony Wards recent article about the impact it's having on the wider squad? His reaction during his substitution against Italy with a young guy making his debut was appalling.

This campaign has been a disappointment, performances have not been where they need to be. It's not just public opinion, you can be damn sure the squad themselves are not happy. There will be genuine concern about the WC and the reality is if Ireland don't make a semi-formal it will take the gloss off Joe's largely successful stint as Ireland head couch. This is a massive KPI for the IRFU!

Finally, you really do have to commend Warren Garland. He has done a phenomenal job with Wales and the Lions. He makes big and bold decisions when he feels he has to. The man handed out 5 debuts in a 6N game in 2000 - Shane Horgan, Ronan O’Gara, John Hayes, Simon Easterby and Peter Stringer. He dropped BOD in Australia.

Burkie1203

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I was watching Sexton again yesterday. I'm sick of the tantrums and strops he's throwing when things aren't going well. I don't think that's leadership!

The famed "leaders" in this squad have been anything but in this 6n.

V Italy we won Pens a few times and players like POM just stood there hands on hips, big grumpy head on him, no communication, no reaction.

Sexton and (especially) Murray's form has been crap which impacts in their abilities to drag the team forward.

That's terrible from those 3 in particular.

Mike Oxlong

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The famed "leaders" in this squad have been anything but in this 6n.

V Italy we won Pens a few times and players like POM just stood there hands on hips, big grumpy head on him, no communication, no reaction.

Sexton and (especially) Murray's form has been crap which impacts in their abilities to drag the team forward.

That's terrible from those 3 in particular.

So POM standing in a way that offends you is a big concern...ah that's fair enough

Deaf student

[

QUOTE=mr_edge_to_you;109703335]I was watching Sexton again yesterday. I'm sick of the tantrums and strops he's throwing when things aren't going well. I don't think that's leadership! And I do wonder is there truth in Tony Wards recent article about the impact it's having on the wider squad? His reaction during his substitution against Italy with a young guy making his debut was appalling.

Sexton has no divine right to play even with his poor form. Same can be said for Murray as well.

What did Ward say? If it does impact on the wider squad,if it does affect the morale or the atmosphere of the squad? Then its better off drop him completely for the sake of the whole squad.

Finally, you really do have to commend Warren Garland. He has done a phenomenal job with Wales and the Lions. He makes big and bold decisions when he feels he has to. The man handed out 5 debuts in a 6N game in 2000 - Shane Horgan, Ronan O’Gara, John Hayes, Simon Easterby and Peter Stringer. He dropped BOD in Australia.

Found Gatland to be a shrewd coach as he take risks with some players more than Schmidt does.

Buer

Tony Ward is a running joke. He has absolutely no insight or knowledge of the Irish camp.

Interested Observer

Buer wrote: »

Tony Ward is a running joke. He has absolutely no insight or knowledge of the Irish camp.

He has also been known to still piss and moan a few decades later about being dropped for Campbell. He's one to talk.

Sheep breeder

Maybe this 6 nations is the wake up call that the players need and the management need. Some players past it and some running on fumes and a rest is needed and time to reflect on style of play.
The biggest disappointment was not enough game time was given young players to see how they perform and fit in to the system and the win at all cost against the building for the World Cup.
SoB is gone past and when he stated he was off to England next year, he should have got the same treatment that Zebo got and out to the wilderness. Joe has shown blind loyalty and can not be good in the camp.

tritriagain

Still played international rugby. I think that gives him a certain qualification to talk sh**e. Most fellas on here are doing it without playing rugby at all.

Burkie1203

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Maybe this 6 nations is the wake up call that the players need and the management need. Some players past it and some running on fumes and a rest is needed and time to reflect on style of play.
The biggest disappointment was not enough game time was given young players to see how they perform and fit in to the system and the win at all cost against the building for the World Cup.
SoB is gone past and when he stated he was off to England next year, he should have got the same treatment that Zebo got and out to the wilderness. Joe has shown blind loyalty and can not be good in the camp.

None of these players are running on fumes or even close to that.

SOB treated exactly the same as POC 4 years ago. That's the correct comparison. Cannot compare to Zebo.

Interested Observer

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Maybe this 6 nations is the wake up call that the players need and the management need. Some players past it and some running on fumes and a rest is needed and time to reflect on style of play.
The biggest disappointment was not enough game time was given young players to see how they perform and fit in to the system and the win at all cost against the building for the World Cup.
SoB is gone past and when he stated he was off to England next year, he should have got the same treatment that Zebo got and out to the wilderness. Joe has shown blind loyalty and can not be good in the camp.

SOB played because VdF and Leavy were unavailable yesterday. Who else do you think should have played?

Buer

tritriagain wrote: »

Still played international rugby. I think that gives him a certain qualification to talk sh**e. Most fellas on here are doing it without playing rugby at all.

No it doesn't. He has embarrassed himself repeatedly. One of his best known ones in recent years was calling for Billy Dardis to be brought into the 6N squad by Schmidt. The lad couldn't even get a provincial contract.

Ward hasn't played in 30 years. His knowledge of the pro game is on a par with George Hook...who at least coached at the top level.

Idbatterim

Bookies have nz evens for wc. England 5.5/1. Ireland 7/1. Wales 9-1 for what ifs worth. The principality stadium is a fortress for them... it will be very interesting to see what wales do in six nations without gatland next year ...

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nah, that is just you being hyperbolic.

I’m not sure he is, there are plenty of seagulls posting on here at the moment that would give that impression. If you don’t post a lot here you’d be forgiven for thinking they were the majority.

jr86

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Maybe this 6 nations is the wake up call that the players need and the management need.

Were the England and Italy games not enough of a wake up call in themselves?

In truth we played one good half of rugby, against a side who were charmed to beat Italy yesterday

A game or two could be seen as "blips" or "wake up calls". A full tournament is bordering calamity point

Squatter

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Yes, a coach is going to say that in a post-match interview.

Why not ?- I've heard coaches admit that they made a balls of things before - and many listeners give them credit for it. But you're right - he didn't need to; the dogs in the street knew it. Far better to waffle about a mystery bug and insinuate that the ref was biased.

Shefwedfan

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I was watching Sexton again yesterday. I'm sick of the tantrums and strops he's throwing when things aren't going well. I don't think that's leadership! And I do wonder is there truth in Tony Wards recent article about the impact it's having on the wider squad? His reaction during his substitution against Italy with a young guy making his debut was xxxxx.

Tony Ward hasn’t a clue and just writes c**p because he has burnt bridges with everyone

You don’t think it’s leadership? Well it’s funny because he is the exact same as he always is, saying it is great one season and then complaining the next about the exact same thing doesn’t make sense to me

Have you heard any single player complain about Sexton? Past or present? They might be a better judge than Tony Ward

Give over with the young player getting a new cap, it was nothing to do with that and that’s just a stick to beat him with....

Squatter

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Finally, you really do have to commend Warren Garland. He has done a phenomenal job with Wales and the Lions. He makes big and bold decisions when he feels he has to. The man handed out 5 debuts in a 6N game in 2000 - Shane Horgan, Ronan O’Gara, John Hayes, Simon Easterby and Peter Stringer. He dropped BOD in Australia.

He "controversially" dropped POM in New Zealand too. And the Lions managed to win/draw the two subsequent tests - go figure!

awec

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tony Ward hasn’t a clue and just writes c**p because he has burnt bridges with everyone

You don’t think it’s leadership? Well it’s funny because he is the exact same as he always is, saying it is great one season and then complaining the next about the exact same thing doesn’t make sense to me

Have you heard any single player complain about Sexton? Past or present? They might be a better judge than Tony Ward

Give over with the young player getting a new cap, it was nothing to do with that and that’s just a stick to beat him with....

Nah he isn't.


His performances and his strops have been noticeably worse of late.

OldRio

The senior pros and leaders have disappointed this campaign.

There also seems a lethargy in our play. Slow, tired even ponderous. Passing to static players. No line breaks. Very narrow in attack. A lack of heads up rugby.

We were awful. Dreadful. Absolutely no excuses. The coaches have a lot of work to do because that display with those players was inexcusable.

As a side note. I hope we never see that ref again on a pitch again with Ireland.

Squatter

awec wrote: »

Nah he isn't.


His performances and his strops have been noticeably worse of late.

Yep; his stroppy performance in Thomond Park should have got him cited for bringing hissy fits into disrepute. And fair dues once again to Frank Murphy for not being bullied by the Leinster Diva.

MojoMaker

Please God the management team come to their senses and reach out to Simon Zebo.

tritriagain

Buer wrote: »

No it doesn't. He has embarrassed himself repeatedly. One of his best known ones in recent years was calling for Billy Dardis to be brought into the 6N squad by Schmidt. The lad couldn't even get a provincial contract.

Ward hasn't played in 30 years. His knowledge of the pro game is on a par with George Hook...who at least coached at the top level.

And who's knowledge are you on a part with?

threeball

I don't think I've ever seen an example in any sport where the coach announced he was leaving in advance of a big tournament and the result for the team was a positive one. Decisions like that should be made at the end of tournaments followed by a swift exit. Same can be said of contract extensions handed out going into tournaments. It's almost always a disaster with the coach getting the bullet shortly after and a handsome pay out.

Mike Oxlong

MojoMaker wrote: »

Please God the management team come to their senses and reach out to Simon Zebo.

Zebo is not the answer in any shape or form.
We need the management team to address our defensive shape...and our pedestrian attack...
The only time we surprised anybody with our attacking play in the 6nations was Earls try against France... otherwise we were fairly impotent against the better sides

Burkie1203

threeball wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen an example in any sport where the coach announced he was leaving in advance of a big tournament and the result for the team was a positive one. Decisions like that should be made at the end of tournaments followed by a swift exit. Same can be said of contract extensions handed out going into tournaments. It's almost always a disaster with the coach getting the bullet shortly after and a handsome pay out.

Eh we saw yesterday. Wales. Garland is leaving in November and Pivac was announced 7 or 8 months ago as his replacement