Can meat producers make vegan food?

Probes · 12-01-2021 3:20pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

So far the line is whatever works best for the individual

Sounds about right to me.

Can I ask why you're concerned about this? It's just a label, a name. I never think of myself as vegan or vegetarian or anything, I only mention it in certain situations for the benefit of others or for quick explanations. I could go down a long road of explaining my preferences and ideals otherwise. The point is that it's all personal choice.

Ash.J.Williams · 12-01-2021 3:28pm

Probes wrote: »

Sounds about right to me.

Can I ask why you're concerned about this? It's just a label, a name. I never think of myself as vegan or vegetarian or anything, I only mention it in certain situations for the benefit of others or for quick explanations. I could go down a long road of explaining my preferences and ideals otherwise. The point is that it's all personal choice.

i saw a comment elsewhere about how nice a (known meat brand ) vegan black pudding was, and as someone who spent youth in meat factories i simply wondered can they be vegan from a ethical viewpoint.

weisses · 12-01-2021 3:41pm

There would be a cohort of vegans who would oppose to lining the pockets of companies who are slaughtering animals and producing vegan alternatives at the same time. And why not.. plenty of options re vegan food

Tar.Aldarion · 12-01-2021 4:41pm

It is a good thing, you have to have A) A Goal

A path to get there.
In this case it is that a company is completely vegan. The path there is by them first creating one vegan product, seeing demand, and creating more. This has a knock on affect of making things more easily available to people and creating more vegans, and so the process repeats itself. Not to mention companies like B&J, Denny have a lot of experience, scale, brand recognition, influence, money. They are flinging money at veganism, meat companies, dairy companies. They also only have a certain amount of shelf space in shops, some of their other product is being replaced with the vegan version.

There are a lot more people going vegan now, a lot of it is due to these products, it being easy, convenience. not too long ago a nearly 100 year old massive dairy company went completely vegan, this is how these things happen, for most companies it is more incremental.

Nekarsulm · 12-01-2021 8:26pm

One problem I see is that the vegan products available in multinational chains is produced by multinational companies, and usually very highly processed.
While there is undoubtedly the benefits of adhering to your principals, it may not be very healthy, or sustainable.
So much of the fruit and veg. sold here have horrendous air miles attached and sometimes very questionable effects on the area its grown in.

I worked in a small local veg. distribution business, and was amazed at the sources of stuff.
Onions from New Zealand, Holland and Spain.
Apples from New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, South Africa, France and Spain.
Mange Tout and mini sweet corn air lifted in from Central Africa twice a week.
Broccoli was closer, usually eastern counties of the UK.
Cabbage and Carrots from Dublin.
There is an incredible need for more locally grown stuff, and of course for the supermarkets and consumers to move towards more seasonal produce.
What is the view about consuming fruit and veg from local farmers in the future, very many of which will also be livestock producers?
Is this acceptable to vegans, or tainted by association?

PS, some of the nicest veg I've had lately came from a local farmers yard, he got a lorry load tipped of mixed fruit and veg, bought cheaply to process through a mixer wagon to feed to beef cattle....

Unearthly · 12-01-2021 8:31pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

One problem I see is that the vegan products available in multinational chains is produced by multinational companies, and usually very highly processed.
While there is undoubtedly the benefits of adhering to your principals, it may not be very healthy, or sustainable.
So much of the fruit and veg. sold here have horrendous air miles attached and sometimes very questionable effects on the area its grown in.

I worked in a small local veg. distribution business, and was amazed at the sources of stuff.
Onions from New Zealand, Holland and Spain.
Apples from New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, South Africa, France and Spain.
Mange Tout and mini sweet corn air lifted in from Central Africa twice a week.
Broccoli was closer, usually eastern counties of the UK.
Cabbage and Carrots from Dublin.
There is an incredible need for more locally grown stuff, and of course for the supermarkets and consumers to move towards more seasonal produce.
What is the view about consuming fruit and veg from local farmers in the future, very many of which will also be livestock producers?
Is this acceptable to vegans, or tainted by association?

PS, some of the nicest veg I've had lately came from a local farmers yard, he got a lorry load tipped of mixed fruit and veg, bought cheaply to process through a mixer wagon to feed to beef cattle....

If you were magically able to produce all my plant food I'd happily hand over my money to you.

Time to get working Nekarsulm

Thelonious Monk · 12-01-2021 8:37pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I worked in a small local veg. distribution business, and was amazed at the sources of stuff.
Onions from New Zealand, Holland and Spain.
Apples from New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, South Africa, France and Spain.
Mange Tout and mini sweet corn air lifted in from Central Africa twice a week.
Broccoli was closer, usually eastern counties of the UK.
Cabbage and Carrots from Dublin.

I always check where my fresh veg comes from, never seen anything from NZ.
I don't mind buying from Spain and Holland, they're part of the EU and if we want peppers and tomatoes etc year round we need to import from these countries.
99% of the imported fruit and veg is eaten by meat eaters anyway.
Most of the fruit and veg in Ireland is grown in Dublin, so that's handy, I live just down the road from Fingal.

I do find it a bit silly when the boards farmers go on about this, given pretty much all of their beef and dairy is produced for export and goes all over the world.

Nekarsulm · 12-01-2021 8:38pm

Unearthly wrote: »

If you were magically able to produce all my plant food I'd happily hand over my money to you.

Time to get working Nekarsulm

Magic would be needed, I'm afraid...
Heavy Cavan land, boulder clay and marl are not conductive for either fruit nor veg....
Sure, you'll grow enough for your own house, but if you actually cost the time and effort involved you'd be ten times better off with a part time job and buy in Lidl..
Perhaps in retirement (no interest in Golf

)

Nekarsulm · 12-01-2021 8:43pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I always check where my fresh veg comes from, never seen anything from NZ.
I don't mind buying from Spain and Holland, they're part of the EU and if we want peppers and tomatoes etc year round we need to import from these countries.
Most of the fruit and veg in Ireland is grown in Dublin, so that's handy, I live just down the road from Fingal.

I do find it a bit silly when the boards farmers go on about this, given pretty much alll of their beef and dairy is produced for export and goes all over the world.

Yep, most from Co. Dublin due to slightly better climate and some superb soils. ( also up around Comber and the 'Ards peninsula).
Large swathes of the rest of the country much better suited to grass production, and the resultant output from this gets exported.

PS, watch out for NZ apples , usually from Taylor's, a huge fruit growing concern in NZ. Pink Ladys, Braeburn, Gala and sometimes NZ Queens are the main varieties.
Hardly worth mentioning Kiwi fruits, or the large amount of grapes ( in processed form!).

Thelonious Monk · 12-01-2021 8:59pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Yep, most from Co. Dublin due to slightly better climate and some superb soils. ( also up around Comber and the 'Ards peninsula).
Large swathes of the rest of the country much better suited to grass production, and the resultant output from this gets exported.

PS, watch out for NZ apples , usually from Taylor's, a huge fruit growing concern in NZ. Pink Ladys, Braeburn, Gala and sometimes NZ Queens are the main varieties.
Hardly worth mentioning Kiwi fruits, or the large amount of grapes ( in processed form!).

Surely Louth, Kildare, Wexford can't be that different soil/climate wise?

Nekarsulm · 12-01-2021 9:08pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Surely Louth, Kildare, Wexford can't be that different soil/climate wise?

Soil types differ over surprisingly small distances.
Try buying a bit of prime veg land in NCD ( not that anyone with it ever sells it willingly) and you'll find it comes at a multiple of the "price per acre" of other counties you've mentioned.
Sure Wexford has lots of veg growing areas, bit NCD is the creme de la creme..

SouthWesterly · 12-01-2021 11:25pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I am guilty of wanting to know what vegans thought of vegan products made by meat factories

Does where its made make it vegan or what's in it?

For the purpose of this thread I identify as vegan.

Bigbooty · 14-01-2021 11:52pm

I'm fine with it and welcome food producers making more plant based options. There is no moral issue with me and anything that makes it more accessible is a good thing. Some level 5 vegans might avoid it but I don't really find the logic in such a view.

ElKavo · 15-01-2021 10:57am

For my part, I grew up eating meat. I ate it a lot! I've always missed a few things since going vegan 6 years ago. Black pudding was one of them. Rudds have launched their sausages and black and white puddings. To me they are as good if not better than the meat version, sure the pudding needs a bit of care in cutting vs traditional animal variety, but man they know how to season it right!

I have a feeling that meat producers are trying to migrate to the plant based varieties for a number of reasons.

1. It is a growing market. They dont want to loose market share.
2. Their current animal based products are a type 1 carcinogen.
3. They see that the current models for animal protein production are unsustainable.

Maybe, just maybe, they are starting to see what that their current offering is ethically challenging. As more and more consumers are exposed to the horrors of meat production. I seriously doubt this though.

Thelonious Monk · 15-01-2021 11:23am

So the Rudd's stuff is decent then? Might pick some up in Dunnes later.

ElKavo · 15-01-2021 11:35am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So the Rudd's stuff is decent then? Might pick some up in Dunnes later.

I prefer it to the Dennys variety for sure. If your missing pudding then they are IMO, streets ahead. The Clonakilty white pudding is just too dry.

You need a sharp knife and a gentle hand when cutting the Rudds puddings though as they are quite mushy in their raw form. Even cutting the casing off can cause it to deform. About 3 - 4 min each side on a medium heat, couple of their sausages, ketchup and YR sauce.... Droooooolll

All I need now is a decent fried egg to be made vegan and I am all set for my brekkie roll!

They also have them in some tescos, but I havent seen them in Supervalu as yet, although my local supervalu isnt the best for Vegan selection.

Thelonious Monk · 15-01-2021 12:31pm

Yes the Clonakilty white was like they made it out of sawdust or something.
Never a big fan of black pudding but I might try the Rudd's one anyway.

Worztron · 15-01-2021 7:51pm

I would say yes.

Tar.Aldarion · 16-01-2021 3:04pm

Rudds is much better than clonakilty

Worztron · 16-01-2021 6:52pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Rudds is much better than clonakilty

Hey TA. Do Rudds have a vegan item/range?

Tar.Aldarion · 16-01-2021 9:54pm

They have sausages, black & white pudding. You can get them in Tesco or Dunnes.

Worztron · 21-01-2021 8:09am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They have sausages, black & white pudding. You can get them in Tesco or Dunnes.

They need to update their website (no mention of the vegan alternatives yet):

Tar.Aldarion · 21-01-2021 1:41pm

Should do, I see lots of ads for their vegan stuff, odd oversight! Pics on their instagram.

Tilikum17 · 21-01-2021 3:43pm

I’ll go to dunnes after work to grab one:

Worztron · 21-01-2021 4:43pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I’ll go to dunnes after work to grab one:

Bon appétit.

Tilikum17 · 21-01-2021 5:59pm

Which is nicer the black or the white?

Tar.Aldarion · 21-01-2021 7:09pm

Both great, I like black more myself

Tilikum17 · 21-01-2021 8:11pm

I got the Hellman’s chipotle Mayo to go with them.

Om nom nom!!!

ganmo · 23-01-2021 1:29pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again consumers care more about brands than anything else

Bigbooty · 23-01-2021 1:48pm

The Rudd's sausages are really good. Picked them up in Dunnes. Nice spice and texture to them. Better than the Denny's.

Thelonious Monk · 23-01-2021 4:55pm

The dunnes ones are hilarious, they taste ok but they're basically some kind of skin with a full on paste inside, the texture of hummus maybe

SouthWesterly · 23-01-2021 11:29pm

It's nonsense to think producers care about a particular type of diet a person has.

They're in it for the market share and profit

If they thought their was a market for ice cube eating people, that would be their focus.

Vegans/vegetarians are just one small piece of a very large market segment.

Tilikum17 · 24-01-2021 12:34am

SouthWesterly wrote: »

It's nonsense to think producers care about a particular type of diet a person has.

They're in it for the market share and profit

If they thought their was a market for ice cube eating people, that would be their focus.

Vegans/vegetarians are just one small piece of a very large market segment.

Thanks for that captain obvious.

24-01-2021 12:35am

SouthWesterly wrote: »

It's nonsense to think producers care about a particular type of diet a person has.

They're in it for the market share and profit

If they thought their was a market for ice cube eating people, that would be their focus.

Vegans/vegetarians are just one small piece of a very large market segment.

Yeah.

What’s your point?

White Clover · 24-01-2021 12:56am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah.

What’s your point?

What's with the aggression, again?

24-01-2021 12:57am

White Clover wrote: »

What's with the aggression, again?

Aggression ?

Explain.

Ten of Swords · 24-01-2021 12:59am

Back on topic please

Sacrolyte · 24-01-2021 2:42am

White Clover wrote: »

What's with the aggression, again?

Most likely lacking iron

Sacrolyte · 24-01-2021 4:57pm

Wow. A yellow card for a harmless bit of banter.
Seriously sensitive around here. The iron is of no use. It’s a funny bone you need.

Ten of Swords · 24-01-2021 5:28pm

Sacrolyte do not post in this thread again. If you want to discuss mod actions do not do it on thread as this derails the topic.

PM if you wish to discuss further

Tilikum17 · 25-01-2021 11:23am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Both great, I like black more myself

Had them yesterday, both really nice.

Tilikum17 · 29-01-2021 8:31pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

The Rudd's sausages are really good. Picked them up in Dunnes. Nice spice and texture to them. Better than the Denny's.

I just had these. I have to be honest I’d go for the Denny ones. Myself & herself thought they were very alike though. The Denny ones are 50 cent cheaper and you get 2 extra which the two dogs get in their kongs.

Loved the Rudd’s puddings though when I had them.

Mr.Saturn · 31-01-2021 4:25am

That Denny's craic is way too close to real deal for me - the burger gives me the heebiest of jeebes. I'd be keen hear from an omnivore as to how it rates as an alternative.

DecoDeco91 · 12-11-2021 9:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058149123/can-meat-producers-make-vegan-food

As a meat eater I would say no, an organisation cannot do both, it makes no sense.

I raise our own meat and buy from a local butcher what we don't do ourselves. We know how those animals are raised, we know what goes into them. All local, good welfare etc.

So to have little school/college students, who are the predominant vegans in our area preaching to me we should all go vegan, and they sitting outside McDonald's with "vegan" burger... Is a bit hypocritical.

McDonald's and the like go against everything I stand for. Cheap processed factory farmed or low end cheap meat products... And here they are giving them money because vegan meal....

In my opinion, for the most part, veganism is a new fad/trend. It goes hand in hand with the LGBTQ lot, as again that demographic and vegans here are very much the same group of young people. Nothing against it, but I've had friends that have claimed be either and both, and some who have then reverted back to original gender and diet as they grew up. I started college in 2010 and both of these ideas were seen as new, and like I said a lot of people just jumped on it to be cool/different/fit in.

Now I actually commend vegans in so much as they got people thinking about where their food comes from, animal welfare needs to improve, and I agree that we should eat less meat overall. But I don't agree with their alternative views on eating animals. I don't believe all farmers are rapists and murderers as they put it.

I mean there are some real rotten parents in this world, doesn't mean all parents are rotten... And plenty of children live worse lives than animals, if we all equal why are they never bringing up these issues?

sekond · 12-11-2021 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116114638#Comment_116114638

We're committed omnivores 😁, although trying to move a little further down towards vegetarianism where we can and I suspect at least one of my daughters will end up vegetarian at some stage, which is why I lurk around here a bit. We've recently switched to the Denny meatfree sausages completely. I bought them as an experiment and the whole family actually prefer them to regular sausages. The mince freaks me out a little as it doesn't cook like 'real' mince, but mostly they don't notice much of a difference when I put it in bolognese or chili. The burgers are ok, but the texture is a bit off or something. When we want veggie burgers, we tend to go for ones that are actual vegetables rather than something pretending to be meat.

Ash.J.Williams · 12-11-2021 11:58am

when I started this thread I had two kidneys, now I am down one so it would be best advised to cut all bacon products and limit red meat , I haven’t checked the sodium content of vegan meat products but I should stick to more veg and water