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Can meat producers make vegan food?

  • 12-01-2021 8:50am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    greetings vegans.

    are vegan products made by meat processing plants as a way of diversifying actually vegan? Even if there is no cross contamination and made separately?
    can you mass kill animals and produce vegan food under the same name?

    i think the answer is no, what do you think?


    Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Denny's do, Rudds do, Clonakilty do. Personally I see it as a good thing as they're branching out, and I think if people see recognisable brands they're more likely to try them. The Denny's sausages seem to be sold out or nearly sold out any time I go to buy them, I think lots of people who aren't vegan or even vegetarian would start to buy these things instead of the meat version.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I really don’t think you can be vegan and mass kill or fund the mass killing of animals


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,723 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    This move by such companies is just driven by revenue and not virtue or emotion

    If it served their bottom line better they would increase the animal content.

    It’s a way of monetising veganism and nothing else. That’s what the massive rush by companies into this market is. To make money of the latest trend, nothing else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,514 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Not vegan here. If you buy their vegan products they might realise how profitable it is and eventually start shifting focus, wouldn't that be desirable?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    _Brian wrote: »
    This move by such companies is just driven by revenue and not virtue or emotion

    If it served their bottom line better they would increase the animal content.

    It’s a way of monetising veganism and nothing else. That’s what the massive rush by companies into this market is. To make money of the latest trend, nothing else.

    so true vegans would see it as a fad? and not part of their lifestyle


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Not vegan here. If you buy their vegan products they might realise how profitable it is and eventually start shifting focus, wouldn't that be desirable?

    You're not allowed to comment on this thread the OP on high has declared this :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Not vegan here. If you buy their vegan products they might realise how profitable it is and eventually start shifting focus, wouldn't that be desirable?

    Yes. By the same token can anyone who buys vegan food from the supermarket be called a vegan? Supermarkets sell meat also.

    At the end of the day if companies branch out and provide alternatives to meat then that is a good thing in the long run.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    so true vegans would see it as a fad? and not part of their lifestyle

    What's a true vegan? Are you somehow better than the untrue vegans? Is there like a league of virtue when it comes to veganism?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    i think the answer is no
    Why?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭emaherx


    greetings vegans. (and vegans only)

    are vegan products made by meat processing plants as a way of diversifying actually vegan? Even if there is no cross contamination and made separately?
    can you mass kill animals and produce vegan food under the same name?

    i think the answer is no, what do you think?

    Obviously not a vegan here, but .....

    Where do you draw the line then?
    Every major supermarket has a butchers,
    Dose that rule out eating the vegan option in any non-vegan restaurant as well?

    I'm sure the list goes on, but realistically while there probably are vegans who absolutely subscribe to that level, I think most would struggle to feed themselves sufficiently without purchasing from a company which in some way funds the meat industry. Quite often vegetable producers may also keep livestock or be in some way part of the supply chain feeding livestock farms.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭Feisar


    What exactly is veganism? Is it purely the abstention from eating animal products? I know a lady that calls herself a vegan but has no issue strolling into BT and buying a Mulberry hand bag. Surely that's á la carte veganism? But them how far can one take it? Are there vegan pension funds so ones money is only invested in vegan certified companies? As a poster above said one cannot shop in a supermarket due to it also selling meat. So vegan only stores. Is the shipping company that supplies them vegan, was their start up capital vegan sourced? At some point one is going to run into a crime against an animal, it's about how far one wants to take it I suppose.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    It seems odd that you can slaughter and process animals on one hand and sell vegan products as vegan? So the consensus in this thread is yes you can


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It seems odd that you can slaughter and process animals on one hand and sell vegan products as vegan? So the consensus in this thread is yes you can
    The "consensus" is that aside from not consuming animal products, there is no grand unifying philosophy behind veganism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

    Some may define their veganism so as to include a boycott not only of animal products, but of companies who produce animal products.

    But many don't and it's not a requirement for veganism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    It seems odd that you can slaughter and process animals on one hand and sell vegan products as vegan? So the consensus in this thread is yes you can

    I think it's a personal thing. Whenever I get asked these types of questions I simply say that the best thing to do is 'what you can do'. There is no point in berating people for buying vegan products from a supermarket if they are just going to give up and go back to meat. The easier things are for people the more likely they will do it.

    Also, please take vit B12 if you are going veggie or vegan. Thanks :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,723 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    so true vegans would see it as a fad? and not part of their lifestyle

    I never used the term “fad”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    I'm a vegetarian 10+ years and I've been eating Linda McCartney/Quorn sausages all that time. The new Denny meat free ones are exceptional, they're the best ones I've ever had tbh.

    Tbh, I've noticed a huge increase of vegetarian / vegan offerings in the last two years. This is across supermarkets, cafes, and restaurants. It's going to be getting better as more people switch their diets.


  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Rey Wailing Volleyball


    I'd like some guidance please, Ayatollah Williams...

    I've just bought a field and will be growing carrots in it in the near future.

    While preparing the field, I'm going to evict beautiful creatures from their habitats and (unintentionally) kill insects and no doubt the odd rabbit.

    Will this make me a false vegan?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I'd like some guidance please, Ayatollah Williams...

    I've just bought a field and will be growing carrots in it in the near future.

    While preparing the field, I'm going to evict beautiful creatures from their habitats and (unintentionally) kill insects and no doubt the odd rabbit.

    Will this make me a false vegan?

    Well if you were to live off only vegetables, you'd be killing far less insects and affecting far less biodiversity than you would if you ate meat, which takes far more land and resources to produce. Nothing comes without a footprint unfortunately, even vegan diets.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unfortunately OP some regular posters, from the farming community, have ignored your OP and weighed in with their opinion.

    Doesn’t look like you’ll get the opinions from the people you’ve directly asked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭NcdJd


    Well if you were to live off only vegetables, you'd be killing far less insects and affecting far less biodiversity than you would if you ate meat, which takes far more land and resources to produce. Nothing comes without a footprint unfortunately, even vegan diets.

    Sorry but that is incorrect. Apart from organically produced vegetables, vegetables production has one of the highest footprints in terms of use of pesticides and fungicides. Also factor in soil degradation due to ploughing and cultivation, irrigation and in a lot of cases crop protection mesh. All agriculture is damaging to the environment, but we have to produce food. The claims made by vegans that a plant based diet is any better for the planet to me is just misinformation. Veganism to me is about stopping the farming of animals full stop. Everything else around it, such as being more friendly to biodiversity and the environment is just spin.

    Edit, thats my view, not trying to upset anyone by the way. I was involved in commercial vegetable farming.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    NcdJd wrote: »
    Sorry but that is incorrect. Apart from organically produced vegetables, vegetables production has one of the highest footprints in terms of use of pesticides and fungicides. Also factor in soil degradation due to ploughing and cultivation, irrigation and in a lot of cases crop protection mesh. All agriculture is damaging to the environment, but we have to produce food. The claims made by vegans that a plant based diet is any better for the planet to me is just misinformation. Veganism to me is about stopping the farming of animals full stop. Everything else around it, such as being more friendly to biodiversity and the environment is just spin.

    It is true that insects are in a terrible decline across the planet. But the biggest drivers of this are the destruction of wild habitat, largely for meat production, and widespread pesticide use. If it is insects that you are really worried about, then eating a plant-based organic diet is the option to choose.

    <Snip>


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Let's be civil everyone, thank you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Unfortunately OP some regular posters, from the farming community, have ignored your OP and weighed in with their opinion.

    Doesn’t look like you’ll get the opinions from the people you’ve directly asked.

    There’s a lot of sand in underpants alright for a simple question:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Unfortunately OP some regular posters, from the farming community, have ignored your OP and weighed in with their opinion.

    Doesn’t look like you’ll get the opinions from the people you’ve directly asked.

    What is your logic here?:rolleyes: Non vegans have commented it means it is not a safe space for vegans to comment now?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I'd like some guidance please, Ayatollah Williams...

    I've just bought a field and will be growing carrots in it in the near future.

    While preparing the field, I'm going to evict beautiful creatures from their habitats and (unintentionally) kill insects and no doubt the odd rabbit.

    Will this make me a false vegan?

    Go for it :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Mimon wrote: »
    What is your logic here?:rolleyes: Non vegans have commented it means it is not a safe space for vegans to comment now?

    Considering the op is an enthusiastic carnivore I would say all are welcome to comment


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭NcdJd


    It is true that insects are in a terrible decline across the planet. But the biggest drivers of this are the destruction of wild habitat, largely for meat production, and widespread pesticide use. If it is insects that you are really worried about, then eating a plant-based organic diet is the option to choose.

    <Snip>

    I think we can agree that more needs to be done to protect the environment and biodiversity? Farmers I'll suggest are leading the way on this from a practical level. Look up the Bride Project in Cork as an example if you have the time. I think people in general are waiting around for some magical bullet where the biodiversity and environmental impact we have as humans will be solved. It's easy to post on social media moaning about evil farmers and tge like. Much harder to get a spade in your hand and plant a couple of trees, lobby your local councils to not do as much grass cutting etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Considering the op is an enthusiastic carnivore I would say all are welcome to comment

    Why are you referring to yourself as the OP? Wrong login:D?

    Yourself as the OP said only vegans to reply. Good way to rub people up the wrong way on an open forum.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod

    OP has requested input from vegans so anyone wishing to identify themselves as vegan and answer ops question can obviously do so

    However, we are not going to exclude inputs from anyone else as long as they post within the forum rules. It's not happening


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    No one is posting about evil farmers. Farmers come and start posting on every vegan thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭NcdJd


    No one is posting about evil farmers. Farmers come and start posting on every vegan thread.

    That was not directed at you personally Thelonious, it's just the vibe I get constantly when reading articles in the mainstream media and social media.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Would vegans generally eat organic also? It obviously is a lot less harmful to the environment and biodiversity so would make sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    In the m id 80's, I went on a group camping trip. We had decided on a vegetarian diet to accommodate everyone. 2 were vegan, 14 in the main group. The vegans took half the pots and pans because they were afraid on contamination of their food from dairy products and eggs. Even washing a pan was not acceptable to them. It was a stressful trip and there were a lot of rows. I'd now avoid trips with vegans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    NcdJd wrote: »
    Sorry but that is incorrect. Apart from organically produced vegetables, vegetables production has one of the highest footprints in terms of use of pesticides and fungicides. Also factor in soil degradation due to ploughing and cultivation, irrigation and in a lot of cases crop protection mesh. All agriculture is damaging to the environment, but we have to produce food. The claims made by vegans that a plant based diet is any better for the planet to me is just misinformation. Veganism to me is about stopping the farming of animals full stop. Everything else around it, such as being more friendly to biodiversity and the environment is just spin.

    Edit, thats my view, not trying to upset anyone by the way. I was involved in commercial vegetable farming.

    Come on now, a vegan diet is less problematic in terms of environmental consequences, this is a given. And as you rightly say by eating organic you can negate much of your own argument.

    My point stands, "do what you can". Many people I speak with say they are having a couple of days a week meat free which I think is great. I honestly believe that in 50 years time people will look back and think "Wow, I can't believe they all ate meat!".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Mimon wrote: »
    Why are you referring to yourself as the OP? Wrong login:D?

    Yourself as the OP said only vegans to reply. Good way to rub people up the wrong way on an open forum.

    I am guilty of wanting to know what vegans thought of vegan products made by meat factories


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    In the m id 80's, I went on a group camping trip. We had decided on a vegetarian diet to accommodate everyone. 2 were vegan, 14 in the main group. The vegans took half the pots and pans because they were afraid on contamination of their food from dairy products and eggs. Even washing a pan was not acceptable to them. It was a stressful trip and there were a lot of rows. I'd now avoid trips with vegans.

    Perhaps they had a dairy allergy?

    On the main topic.

    Giving the denny sausages as an example, a tasty one at that. Are they marketed as vegan or just meatless?

    Denny meatfree range

    No word of being vegan. Which would be a good place to start.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Mimon wrote: »
    Would vegans generally eat organic also? It obviously is a lot less harmful to the environment and biodiversity so would make sense.

    Not sure on this, intensive veg farming producing the most yield may have less affect on biodiversity than organic.
    I remember seeing a thing on Horizon on BBC and they came to the conclusion that chicken from battery hens does the least damage to the environment, when it comes to meat, as horrific as the industry is.

    We could probably all eat only organic meat if we ate it only once or twice a week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Mimon wrote: »
    Why are you referring to yourself as the OP? Wrong login:D?

    Yourself as the OP said only vegans to reply. Good way to rub people up the wrong way on an open forum.

    What?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    In the m id 80's, I went on a group camping trip. We had decided on a vegetarian diet to accommodate everyone. 2 were vegan, 14 in the main group. The vegans took half the pots and pans because they were afraid on contamination of their food from dairy products and eggs. Even washing a pan was not acceptable to them. It was a stressful trip and there were a lot of rows. I'd now avoid trips with vegans.

    2 vegans are not representative of all vegans!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    In the m id 80's, I went on a group camping trip. We had decided on a vegetarian diet to accommodate everyone. 2 were vegan, 14 in the main group. The vegans took half the pots and pans because they were afraid on contamination of their food from dairy products and eggs. Even washing a pan was not acceptable to them. It was a stressful trip and there were a lot of rows. I'd now avoid trips with vegans.

    This is getting close to answering the question, I’m sure at the very least vegans would expect no cross contamination in the factory, or even a separate factory, but I’d still like to hear from vegans on vegan products made by meat producers ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    Probes wrote: »
    2 vegans are not representative of all vegans!

    Veganism was hard work then. I remember them being very underweight and very pale. They were just miserable and very entrenched in their views. It put me off people with extreme views. It had nothing to do with food intolerances, but everything to do with thought intolerances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    This is getting close to answering the question, I’m sure at the very least vegans would expect no cross contamination in the factory, or even a separate factory, but I’d still like to hear from vegans on vegan products made by meat producers ?

    As stated before not all vegans have the same thought process. There is no vegan bible that every vegan reads to form an opinion on topics such as these. You will get a varied response. I personally think anything that makes a vegan diet easier to manage is a good thing in the long run. I do believe the majority hold this view but can't speak on behalf of all vegans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    Veganism was hard work then. I remember them being very underweight and very pale. They were just miserable and very entrenched in their views. It put me off people with extreme views. It had nothing to do with food intolerances, but everything to do with thought intolerances.

    But you could have just described all Scottish people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭NcdJd


    Probes wrote: »
    Come on now, a vegan diet is less problematic in terms of environmental consequences, this is a given.

    It's not as simple as that Probes. Both types of production done intensively are just as bad as the other. Anyway I've said my piece so I'll leave it at that. My advice is to try and source local produce, whether its meat, fruit or vegetables and you will be making a big difference. Also try and do something practical to improve biodiversity in your local community.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    This is getting close to answering the question, I’m sure at the very least vegans would expect no cross contamination in the factory, or even a separate factory, but I’d still like to hear from vegans on vegan products made by meat producers ?

    Why do you think this? This logic would mean that vegans could not eat in any but a tiny number of restaurants, or even have coffee in a friend's house (if the friend had meat in the fridge, or even chocolate in the press).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭Feisar


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Why do you think this? This logic would mean that vegans could not eat in any but a tiny number of restaurants, or even have coffee in a friend's house (if the friend had meat in the fridge, or even chocolate in the press).

    Is fear of cross use a thing?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I eat the Denny sausages and mince, the elmlea cream, vegan mayo etc. All made by producers who make non vegan versions of the same thing. It makes sense that they expand their customer base - if it wasn’t commercially viable they wouldn’t do it. I hope that if they see a lot of sales it will encourage them to expand their ranges - Hellman’s have done so recently with flavoured vegan mayonnaise. Choice is good. Not everyone who buys meat or dairy free is vegan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Why do you think this? This logic would mean that vegans could not eat in any but a tiny number of restaurants, or even have coffee in a friend's house (if the friend had meat in the fridge, or even chocolate in the press).

    My question was referring to companies selling vegan friendly food and mass slaughtering animals, but the discussion has opened up to eating in the same county as a chap who once stood on a wasp etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    My question was referring to companies selling vegan friendly food and mass slaughtering animals, but the discussion has opened up to eating in the same county as a chap who once stood on a wasp etc

    Yeah but the fundamental point is, where do you draw the line? It's personal choice where. You can draw it as crudely as you want if the desire is to determine that no-one is truly vegan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Probes wrote: »
    Yeah but the fundamental point is, where do you draw the line? It's personal choice where. You can draw it as crudely as you want if the desire is to determine that no-one is truly vegan.

    So far the line is whatever works best for the individual


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