35 properties to be leased in Galway city for asylum seekers

SchrodingersCat · 24-09-2020 11:46am

Deleted User wrote: »

I did read your article but it seems not to take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees

Klaz, help me out here. From the article:

"the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

If you still cannot see where you are wrong in your statement above, then it is difficult to have an honest debate here. You are deliberately misrepresenting the article that I linked to.

Gatling · 24-09-2020 11:51am

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

"No". You were given evidence to support the claim that Asylum seekers are good for a countries economy, but when your asked for evidence to back up your claims, you just say "No".

This is double standards.

Again no

Your evidence is merely an opinion piece of 4/5 individuals
Take the average unemployment rates in Germany under 6% if I remember correctly where unemployment rates in immigrants in Germany is at 17% ,
Sweden has a similar number of around 5% percent unemployment ,but close to 60% unemployment rates for immigrants .

So the opinions you posted dont add up immigrants increase employment rates of countries not true

24-09-2020 11:53am

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Klaz, help me out here. From the article:

"the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

If you still cannot see where you are wrong in your statement above, then it is difficult to have an honest debate here. You are deliberately misrepresenting the article that I linked to.

Your article is not an absolute. You seem to believe because you provided one article that states a net benefit, that there can be no counter to it.

I have provided a variety of reasons to show why that logic is flawed. Simply referring to that one article isn't enough. Provide a variety of links as evidence that you're correct.. and counter what I said.

You talk about an honest debate. This is what a debate is. Unless you're simply expecting everyone to accept your article without any objections? Look at the logic of my post, and what I linked to. If you are seeking honest debate, you'll see what I said is relevant...

Yurt2 · 24-09-2020 12:12pm

RIGOLO wrote: »

snippet from an earlier post

The Movement for Asylum Seekers in Ireland (Masi) tell us that asylum seekers should be treated the same as any Irish resident when it comes to housing. Masi’s Bulelani Mfaco says that “If I woke up tomorrow in possession of a letter from the Department of Justice saying I am entitled to stay in Ireland, the local authority would be obliged to provide me with housing”.

when am I getting my house .. Im waiting

If that quote is accurate, the guy should be sent home asap.

He's a tourist that's plonked himself here and is demanding housing during a chronic housing affordability problem and in an economic crisis, and wants the government to foot the bill.

Dropkick him out of the country. He's the definition of a p*sstaker.

Galwayguy35 · 24-09-2020 12:19pm

Didn't think they would be able to find that many properties to lease but I suppose money talks and its tidy money for the owners of these premises.

Personally I'd have no issue with this new way of accommodating asylum seekers but the Government also need to radically change the system as well.

All this carry on where asylum seeks can delay the process for years and have access to the legal system free of charge up to the highest court in the land in order to overturn decisions needs to end.

A quicker turnaround also gives them less time to start having kids which makes the process of sending them back more difficult.

There should be a final decision within 6 months of them turning up here to either be let stay or go home, they complain about the process but yet nobody mentions the fact that in most cases the reason is because its the immigrants themselves who are the cause of it.

But every Government seems afraid of tackling the asylum process and this one is no different.

SchrodingersCat · 24-09-2020 12:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Your article is not an absolute. You seem to believe because you provided one article that states a net benefit, that there can be no counter to i.

No, I never believed that the article was an absolute or that there was no counter to it. I stated that you misrepresented it when you said that it did not "take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees". This is wrong. It did take "the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” into its modelling when it came to the conclusion that it is "more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues".

Do you understand the difference?

24-09-2020 12:33pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

No, I never believed that the article was an absolute or that there was no counter to it. I stated that you misrepresented it when you said that it did not "take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees". This is wrong. It did take "the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” into its modelling when it came to the conclusion that it is "more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues".

Do you understand the difference?

I give up. You just don't want to deal with opposing views

RIGOLO · 24-09-2020 1:01pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

No, I never believed that the article was an absolute or that there was no counter to it. I stated that you misrepresented it when you said that it did not "take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees". This is wrong. It did take "the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” into its modelling when it came to the conclusion that it is "more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues".

Do you understand the difference?

Well looks like your theory just got torpedoed below the water line.
Like most rubbish that comes out of economists mouths, their predictions in 2015 have suffered an about face.

The EU is moving towards rapid repatriation and mandatory relocation of illegal immgrants.
So much for the economic benefits.

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/27413/eu-wants-rapid-repatriation-and-mandatory-relocation

Thanks for putting up the article to remind us to pay no notice to economists .

The irony of a pro-immigration poster calling themselves SchrodingersCat gave me a good chuckle. Is there anyone awake in the Irish education system, their progeny dont pass muster.

Schrodinger, a man who petitioned the Irish Govt for visas to bring his menage-a-trois (wife and lover) and the children of both women to Ireland and before leaving Ireland he fathered 2 more kids by two other women.

Hows that for economic benefit.

Maybe that side of him, the part where he deserted women and his children appealed to you when you picked that name , its unlikely to have been his wave equation.

_Kaiser_ · 24-09-2020 4:07pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Didn't think they would be able to find that many properties to lease but I suppose money talks and its tidy money for the owners of these premises.

Not exclusively to the AS topic, but certainly what's happening in my area is the local Council are buying up any properties that come up on the market in an average housing estate and then renting them out for social housing

This time last year my privately owning neighbour sold up to the Council when trading up and there are now social tenants in their place.

This means that:

- As a private renter, there's less property on the market to rent, forcing prices up and making me move further away from where I want/need to be (I'm already an hour away from my workplace)

- As a potential buyer, there's less property to purchase, forcing prices up and forcing me to buy further away

And this is bring done with funds from taxes I pay. I'm competing against my own contributions yet don't qualify for such housing myself. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I'd saved and sacrificed to buy a place only to have someone moved in beside me for a fraction of what I was paying on a mortgage (or indeed rent) - even more so if that person's right to be in the country was dubious from the start.

We have serious issues in this country when those who contribute, play by the rules and sacrifice get less reward for their efforts than those who do little or nothing (and yes this includes our own native layabouts), or who may not even be entitled to be here at all.

I see this becoming a serious issue over the next decade given our main parties efforts to socialise everything, but it'll be compounded by the immigration crisis and changing demographics that we're facing as well.

What will accelerate this coming to a head is the climate of denial we find ourselves in where anyone not wholly and loudly "on message" is shouted down and discredited by those who are more interested in the "likes" than the consequences of what they're advocating for.

As the election results across Europe (and beyond - resulting in the likes of Trump in the White House) are now showing is that the ordinary contributing citizenry are fed up with getting less and less for more and more contributions, only to be told then to shut up and accused of being -ist or -phobic when they ask what is going on and why is it continuing.

Galwayguy35 · 24-09-2020 4:18pm

Gatling wrote: »

Anyone seen this article

https://www.thejournal.ie/failed-asylum-seeker-claims-he-was-abandoned-by-gardai-at-airport-5211749-Sep2020/

I suppose we are paying for this chancers legal bill in the High Court.

_Kaiser_ · 24-09-2020 4:32pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I suppose we are paying for this chancers legal bill in the High Court.

Saw that one the other day. Unbelievable it's even being entertained.

As I said in the post above though, the way this country works when it comes to the "disadvantaged" is seriously out of kilter with those who are paying for everything.

TomTomTim · 24-09-2020 4:48pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I suppose we are paying for this chancers legal bill in the High Court.

I wonder why a South African would end up in Ireland anyway. I thought the place would of turned into a progressive utopia after getting rid of those white supremacists who oppressed them for so long.

Gatling · 24-09-2020 4:50pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I suppose we are paying for this chancers legal bill in the High Court.

I believe the legal bills for asylum seekers come around 30 million per year .

Solicitors , Barristers and human rights barristers all get paid for through our tax .

Aren't we a great bunch lads and ladies

Galwayguy35 · 24-09-2020 5:00pm

It's bad enough that anyone would even believe his BS story but to have it heard in The High Court is just crazy.

Wouldn't surprise me if he ended up back here again.

Kivaro · 24-09-2020 5:03pm

RIGOLO wrote: »

Well looks like your theory just got torpedoed below the water line.
Like most rubbish that comes out of economists mouths, their predictions in 2015 have suffered an about face.

The EU is moving towards rapid repatriation and mandatory relocation of illegal immgrants.
So much for the economic benefits.

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/27413/eu-wants-rapid-repatriation-and-mandatory-relocation

It was always easy to debunk the 'notion' that asylum seekers are a net financial gain to society. Using Ireland as an example, the exorbitant costs of Direct Provision and its ancillary services, the legal costs, healthcare costs, and then all the associated cost after they receive refugee status (welfare, housing etc.) was not going to be recouped by the exchequer in the form of income tax by those same refugees.

The grouping of the most liberal countries on the planet would never have agreed this new policy of moving forward with the rapid repatriation and mandatory relocation of illegal migrants (aka asylum seekers) if there would have been a net financial gain to the union. Even our most liberal neighbours have had enough. It took them a while to see sense.

greendom · 24-09-2020 10:33pm

RIGOLO wrote: »

mathematics doesnt seem to be a strong point for the SJWs

if the housing stock is X
if demand form Irish citizens is Y
if demand from asylum seekers is Z

then if X = Y ... house prices are relatively stable
if X < Y + Z ... then house prices and rent will rise

Very good but the basic point still sounds.

It's so easy to blame the homeless situation on immigrants but removing the immigrants won't improve the situation for the homeless.

As has already been stated immigrants provide a net economic benefit to society which means in effect their presence should improve the lot of the homeless.

By blaming the homeless situation on immigration you are letting the real culprits, politicians and land hoarders, for example, get away scott free.

DelaneyIn · 24-09-2020 10:34pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

I'd rather them than some of the Oliver Bond St free house recipients.

These guys will work one day.

Only around forty percent of Africans in Ireland work. Good luck with that.

https://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/workingpapers/gearywp201816.pdf

DelaneyIn · 24-09-2020 10:39pm

Zookey123 wrote: »

Ah the classic whataboutism. What have you done for the homeless. How are we virtue signaling? And traitors haha are you 12?

There are 54 African nations and 50 predominantly Muslim countries globally. Absolutely absurd for any to flee to these tiny islands and claim to be “fleeing for their life.” Now we have to house them and pay for their welfare.

A nice lottery win for them. I’m sure they won’t be on the blower to the lads back home telling them about gullible paddy and the free house.

DelaneyIn · 24-09-2020 10:40pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

We should feel obliged to help those worse off than us. Whether they are seeking asylum or homeless.

There are about six billion people worse off than the average Irish person.....

DelaneyIn · 24-09-2020 10:42pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Klaz, help me out here. From the article:

"the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

If you still cannot see where you are wrong in your statement above, then it is difficult to have an honest debate here. You are deliberately misrepresenting the article that I linked to.

If I allow two homeless lads to come live with me, the household gdp will rise but my net worth and standard of living will drop drastically.

If you think turning Ireland into a refugee camp would be an economic boom then I don’t know what to tell you.

25-09-2020 12:30am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

If I allow two homeless lads to come live with me, the household gdp will rise but my net worth and standard of living will drop drastically.

If you think turning Ireland into a refugee camp would be an economic boom then I don’t know what to tell you.

It's the expectation that migrants will get work. Sure, they might (might) want to work, but who is to say that there will be jobs there for them? (even without the recession, jobs for low skilled workers are declining in availability)

The sad fact of Asylum seekers and refugees is that they typically come from countries which have a much lower quality of education, and even access to that education is fraught with difficulties. And so, the majority of refugees arrive with basic education, and their skillset is not designed for a first world nation. It's logical that they wouldn't be.

We already have a native population and existing migrant population who fill up the demand for low wage positions. There isn't a huge demand for these kind of workers in Ireland... and since Ireland is quite an expensive country to live in, the standard of living they can expect to have, without welfare supplements, would be very low. So... they would need financial aid from the State to survive, but NGO's/Activists would demand that these arrivals have a comparable standard of living as Irish people. Not the poor Irish people. Of course not, but the same as middle class Irish who have invested time/money into getting the education and experience needed to support their lifestyles.

Refugees are a loss because to provide that level of living would cost the State money. And... that's without even considering the costs in educating either Adults or Children to be of a comparable standard.

The argument that migrants are a net benefit just doesn't make sense, and it makes me think that such articles are driving an agenda... similar to the raft of articles that were common a decade ago when most of Europe was hellbent on following Germany on importing cheap labor. That didn't work out well for Germany.. and it hasn't worked out well anywhere else either. Except by encouraging the growth of an underclass of workers who need to be supported by the State but still work the crap jobs...

Gervais08 · 25-09-2020 12:48am

We need a points system such as Australia and others have.

There should be a number of refugees taken in- if legitimate and vetted.

We should have a green card type system that can be revoked in the event of a crime being committed.

_Kaiser_ · 25-09-2020 12:48am

greendom wrote: »

As has already been stated immigrants provide a net economic benefit to society which means in effect their presence should improve the lot of the homeless.

What evidence is there of this beyond the single article referenced previously which no doubt was designed to answer a specific question with the right answer.

How does taking in thousands of unskilled migrants with language skills and literacy issues, no ability to support themselves, from cultures and religious backgrounds wholly incompatible with a modern Western society, and potentially unverifiable backgrounds "benefit" the host society or economy?

I suppose the huge number of unemployed Africans or well documented integration and antisocial issues in certain areas of the greater Dublin area are just fiction made up by "racists" right?

This group are not the same as the one you actually mean - legitimate migrants who enter legally with skills to offer and an ability to earn and support themselves. Who contribute and integrate positively into their new communities.

This second group are absolutely welcome and valuable assets to the country they arrive in. The first group though are opportunists and chancers who if they are found to have no legitimate claim for entry (or attempt to sneak through in shipping containers) should be immediately deported back to wherever they came from.

It's not our fault that they were born into countries with poor economies but neither is it our responsibility to take them in and support them (indefinitely in many cases) either. I feel no guilt for the accident of birth that makes me Irish in Ireland and nor will I, despite the best efforts of NGOs and others to infer some sort of "privileged white guilt" nonsense.

10000maniacs · 25-09-2020 1:03am

Kivaro wrote: »

And it's coming to a neighourhood near you soon.
This is the independent living concept that will be implemented by Roderic O' Gorman, who strangely as minister of children is now in charge of the asylum system in Ireland. He told the Irish Times back in July that change will come quickly. Pity he wasn't talking about the inadequate services for children in Ireland.

The Movement for Asylum Seekers in Ireland (Masi) tell us that asylum seekers should be treated the same as any Irish resident when it comes to housing. Masi’s Bulelani Mfaco says that “If I woke up tomorrow in possession of a letter from the Department of Justice saying I am entitled to stay in Ireland, the local authority would be obliged to provide me with housing”.

This is the mindset that we are dealing with.
Instead of going out and seeking employment in order to pay for housing like the vast majority of people in this country do, his first move upon getting the letter "entitling" him to stay in Ireland would be for a free house at the tax payer expense.

It's a strange auld world we have here in Ireland. The reality is that we will have to borrow even more money in order to pay for independent living for asylum seekers in this country. And of course not to mention the unfair competition that will exasperated against our kids/nieces/nephews etc. who are trying to find a home during these very challenging times.

If "asylum seekers" were treated the same as any other Irish person seeking a house, most of them would buy a ticket for the first airplane out of Ireland. They know the Irish system better than we do. Let's not kid ourselves.

Geuze · 25-09-2020 11:42am

Gervais08 wrote: »

We need a points system such as Australia and others have.

There should be a number of refugees taken in- if legitimate and vetted.

We should have a green card type system that can be revoked in the event of a crime being committed.

We are taking 6,900 refugees.

Given the massive unemployment here and across the EU, there is very little need for any non-EU immigration, except in specialised occupations where EU workers can't be found.

Gatling · 25-09-2020 12:02pm

Geuze wrote: »

We are taking 6,900 refugees.

Given the massive unemployment here and across the EU, there is very little need for any non-EU immigration, except in specialised occupations where EU workers can't be found.

Is this on top of the multiple thousands we already have here in the system

Galwayguy35 · 25-09-2020 12:19pm

greendom wrote: »

Very good but the basic point still sounds.

It's so easy to blame the homeless situation on immigrants but removing the immigrants won't improve the situation for the homeless.

As has already been stated immigrants provide a net economic benefit to society which means in effect their presence should improve the lot of the homeless.

By blaming the homeless situation on immigration you are letting the real culprits, politicians and land hoarders, for example, get away scott free.

Immigrants like the Polish and other EE have been a benefit to this country, they arrive and hit the ground running working and paying tax.

Students from outside the EU who come to study at the universities are also a benefit as they have paid to come here and also are paying while they stay here.

Same with the doctors and nurses from outside the EU in our hospitals.

We can all agree on this.

Now the people over in Greece and Italy are no benefit to anyone and most of them have little or no education, I don't blame anyone for wanting to improve their lot in life but expecting the country you arrive in to foot the bill for everything in order to get them able to even hold down a job is a bit much.

jmayo · 25-09-2020 3:10pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

...
Now the people over in Greece and Italy are no benefit to anyone and most of them have little or no education, I don't blame anyone for wanting to improve their lot in life but expecting the country you arrive in to foot the bill for everything in order to get them able to even hold down a job is a bit much.

I despair.

You are a racist for not wanting to help your fellow man (we can agree that the vast majority are men can we not).
Now of course some might be gay or really women in a hariy mans body of course.

You should be ashamed of yourself for not wanting to offer to pay more taxes and forego services so that others can come here and enjoy a better life.

You think these people should work after the hell holes they have come from and the sacrifices they have had to make.
They need education, training, support, somewhere nice to live and definitely not somewhere backwards and wet like Galway.

You were lucky you were born in Galway, well in comparison to these poor cratures with just the clothes they stand in and only an iphone 8 to their name.
You need to share what you have.
What was it Jesus said, who wait scrub that, he is so last century.
What was it the great prophet said about sharing again ?
No not about your wives, but about your wealth and your lands.

Also you should be fully behind them bringing over their extended family so that they don't have to save money to make the arduous and costly trips home to visit them, all the while braving the warzones and the state apparatus that will surely arrest them and torture them the minute they set foot in the likes of Tirana, T'bilisi, Lagos, Islamabad, Cape Town, Asmara, Khartoum.

MarkY91 · 25-09-2020 3:12pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

I'd rather them than some of the Oliver Bond St free house recipients.

These guys will work one day.

No they won't.

Geuze · 27-09-2020 12:45am

jmayo wrote: »

I despair.

You are a racist for not wanting to help your fellow man (we can agree that the vast majority are men can we not).

Race never mentioned by me.

Yet this accusation is thrown around.

If I said the following:

"only a particular race of illegal immigrant should be stopped / challenged/deported",

then maybe you could call me that.

But I don't.

I say the following:

"irrespective of their race, all bogus AS should be challenged and deported".

I am blind to their race, yellow, white, black, if they are orange or blue, that is not the issue.

The issue is they are illegal immigrants.

Some people resort to using racism when it is not present.

35 properties to be leased in Galway city for asylum seekers

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