The Hazards of Belief

mikhail · 25-01-2019 12:01pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's a lot more benign that spending rather more money on a nuclear weapons programme for entirely non-religious reasons, is my point. For the purposes of this thread, this was perhaps not the happiest combination.

Entirely?

mikhail wrote: »

Given the nuclear program was largely about escalating tensions with neighbouring Pakistan, which was created over a religious divide within British India, you could make the argument. On the other hand, people being people, they'd probably have found some other excuse for hostilities.

Odhinn · 29-01-2019 8:44pm

"Iran's capital city has banned the public from walking pet dogs, as part of a long-standing official campaign to discourage dog-ownership.
Tehran Police Chief Hossein Rahimi said "we have received permission from the Tehran Prosecutor's Office, and will take measures against people walking dogs in public spaces, such as parks"."

"As if this were not draconian enough, Brigadier-General Rahimi added that driving with a dog in your car was also banned.
"It is forbidden to drive dogs around in cars and, if this is observed, serious police action will be taken against the car-owners in question," he told the agency, which was set up by Iran's state broadcaster to train young journalists"

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-47041611

Eejits.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-02-2019 9:52pm

Apparently yesterday was World Hijab Day.

#they tried to make me wear a hijab, I said no, no no#

Hotblack Desiato · 04-02-2019 10:00pm

Aldi are getting into the woo business:

https://www.aldi.ie/hinkler-the-power-of-crystals-kit/p/087812243080000

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:rolleyes:

Peregrinus · 05-02-2019 2:51am

You can't argue with the market, Hotblack.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-02-2019 11:18am

Pretty dubious to be making what amount to bogus medical claims. Even if there is a sucker born every minute.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 12:29pm

“20 years, 700 victims”
So reads part of the headline of a sweeping investigation that has found years of sexual abuse perpetrated by hundreds of Southern Baptist church leaders against an even larger number of victims.
The Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express-News reported that nearly 400 Southern Baptist church leaders and volunteers have faced sexual misconduct allegations in the past two decades. As many as 700 victims — some as young as 3 — were sexually abused, some raped and molested repeatedly, according to the report.

But instead of ensuring that sexual predators were kept at bay, the Southern Baptist Convention resisted policy changes, the newspapers found. Victims accused church leaders of mishandling their complaints, even hiding them from the public. While the majority of abusers have been convicted of sex crimes and are registered sex offenders, the investigation found that at least three dozen pastors, employees and volunteers who showed predatory behavior still worked at churches."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/02/10/pure-evil-southern-baptist-leaders-condemn-decades-sexual-abuse-revealed-investigation/?utm_term=.eef50d31e8ee

Hector Savage · 11-02-2019 2:35pm

Surprised this hasn't appeared here - wait of course I'm not surprised ...

http://iqna.ir/en/news/3467897/cleric-slams-heinous-killing-of-6-year-old-boy-in-saudi-arabia

Cleric Slams Heinous Killing of 6-Year-Old Boy in Saudi Arabia

In a statement on Sunday, Grand Ayatollah Ali Safi Golpayegani expressed condolences over the martyrdom of the little boy to his family, who are Shia Muslims, and prayed that God give his family patience to bear his loss

He also called on international bodies to react to the atrocious crime and slammed the silence of Muslim countries’ rulers, especially those in Riyadh for the silence on the tragic incident.

The killing of the boy in broad daylight in Saudi Arabia has generated a wave of shock and revulsion and drawn attention to the brutal nature of Wahhabi school of thought which governs the kingdom.

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2019 2:42pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Surprised this hasn't appeared here - wait of course I'm not surprised ...

http://iqna.ir/en/news/3467897/cleric-slams-heinous-killing-of-6-year-old-boy-in-saudi-arabia

what is your point?

Hector Savage · 11-02-2019 4:26pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what is your point?

What's your point ? you don't think it's a hazard of belief ?

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2019 4:42pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

What's your point ? you don't think it's a hazard of belief ?

it was this i was referring to:

Surprised this hasn't appeared here - wait of course I'm not surprised ...

You seem to making a dig for some reason.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 4:48pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

What's your point ? you don't think it's a hazard of belief ?

It's a deranged taxi driver who killed a child. We have had people here who have killed their own family due to mental illness.

Hector Savage · 11-02-2019 4:49pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it was this i was referring to:

You seem to making a dig for some reason.

ah sorry yeah , I was meant to add it's not appearing on BBC/RTE/ as well as here.

You know me on this site, Islam seems to get a pass.

Hector Savage · 11-02-2019 4:49pm

Odhinn wrote: »

It's a deranged taxi driver who killed a child. We have had people here who have killed their own family due to mental illness.

Come on now, you know religion has something to do with it.

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2019 4:51pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

ah sorry yeah , I was meant to add it's not appearing on BBC/RTE/ as well as here.

You know me on this site, Islam seems to get a pass.

It does in its arse.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 5:00pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

ah sorry yeah , I was meant to add it's not appearing on BBC/RTE/ as well as here.

Thousands die violently in the USA every year. In places like Venezuela and South Africa its worse - roughly 50 a day for South Africa. They don't report on each and every death.

Hector Savage wrote: »

You know me on this site, Islam seems to get a pass.

More a case of most not sharing your agenda.

recedite · 11-02-2019 5:21pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Come on now, you know religion has something to do with it.

The killer repeatedly stabbed Zakariya in the neck with a piece of broken glass until he was beheaded, witness accounts of the gruesome killing said.

Don't mention the neck thing around here. They like to think a beheading could happen to anyone, anywhere.
Nothing whatsoever got to do with religion.
Probably self defense.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 5:29pm

recedite wrote: »

Don't mention the neck thing around here. They like to think a beheading could happen to anyone, anywhere..

If you have a problem with the members of the forum, you might either layout a coherent argument or take it up with moderation, rather than launch lukewarm snide digs.

recedite wrote: »

Nothing whatsoever got to do with religion.
Probably self defense.

Do please explain to me on what basis you make this declaration.

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2019 5:35pm

recedite wrote: »

Don't mention the neck thing around here. They like to think a beheading could happen to anyone, anywhere.
Nothing whatsoever got to do with religion.
Probably self defense.

All we know is that it was a wahhabi follower killing a shia muslim. Was the attack religiously motivated? Possibly.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 5:56pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

All we know is that it was a wahhabi follower killing a shia muslim. Was the attack religiously motivated? Possibly.

Could well be, but its early yet and there is much in the way of rumour.

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2019 5:57pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Could well be, but its early yet and there is much in the way of rumour.

Of course the Saudis are saying that he has mental problems. But they would say that.

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 6:04pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Of course the Saudis are saying that he has mental problems. But they would say that.

And the Iranians will say there's naught wrong with him. However its not in anyway clear why - as the mother allegedly identified herself as Shia - the son was the target of the attack. Nor why she would do so in the first place for that matter.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-02-2019 7:15pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

You know me on this site, Islam seems to get a pass.

You keep posting this, and each time I point out to you what utter bollocks it is...

Odhinn · 11-02-2019 7:28pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You keep posting this, and each time I point out to you what utter bollocks it is...

..and he then departs without arguing whatever case he might have.

robindch · 11-02-2019 9:48pm

Mod:

Hector Savage wrote: »

You know me on this site, Islam seems to get a pass.

Without checking, my memory suggests that you've been called out on this idiotic trope before, quite possibly by multiple posters.

Regardless of that, if you repeat a trope like "nobody ever criticizes islam around here" again, you will be carded for trolling.

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 8:50am

Odhinn wrote: »

Thousands die violently in the USA every year. In places like Venezuela and South Africa its worse - roughly 50 a day for South Africa. They don't report on each and every death.

More a case of most not sharing your agenda.

Agenda! ? :rolleyes:

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 8:53am

Odhinn wrote: »

..and he then departs without arguing whatever case he might have.

It's pure numbers, it's very very rare you see a hazard of belief here related to Islam - despite it being as of today the most hazourdous.

Just scan through the pages here, it's all about christianity, even more stuff on Hinduism FFS!!

Same with the "Funny side of religion".

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 8:54am

robindch wrote: »

Mod:Without checking, my memory suggests that you've been called out on this idiotic trope before, quite possibly by multiple posters.

Regardless of that, if you repeat a trope like "nobody ever criticizes islam around here" again, you will be carded for trolling.

I just saw that know, after posting my previous messages.
I won't post about it again so - but my point stands.

smacl · 12-02-2019 9:30am

Hector Savage wrote: »

It's pure numbers, it's very very rare you see a hazard of belief here related to Islam - despite it being as of today the most hazourdous.

Just scan through the pages here, it's all about christianity, even more stuff on Hinduism FFS!!

Same with the "Funny side of religion".

Really? Searching this thread for keywords gives the following results, including partials e.g. Christian includes Christianity, Islam include Islamic etc..

Christian : 490 hits
Islam: 374 hits
Catholic : 364 hits
Muslim : 359 hits

Given that we're on a forum where there are vastly more posters with long term first hand experience of Christianity, I would say that Islam is pretty well represented here and your point is both incorrect and biased.

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 9:34am

smacl wrote: »

Really? Searching this thread for keywords gives the following results, including partials e.g. Christian includes Christianity, Islam include Islamic etc..

Christian : 490 hits
Islam: 374 hits
Catholic : 364 hits
Muslim : 359 hits

Given that we're on a forum where there are vastly more posters with long term first hand experience of Christianity, I would say that Islam is pretty well represented here and your point is both incorrect and biased.

Well just as well I can't bring it up again!!
But damn, those stats do put it to bed tho!!!

It's funny, I wasn't trolling, but skimming through the pages really felt that way.

Anyway

here's a line

Peregrinus · 12-02-2019 9:37am

Hector Savage wrote: »

. . . It's funny, I wasn't trolling, but skimming through the pages really felt that way.

The person responsible for your feelings is you, Hector. Just sayin'.

magicbastarder · 12-02-2019 9:37am

probably a bit obvious, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHzwiYG8bM

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 9:42am

magicbastarder wrote: »

probably a bit obvious, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHzwiYG8bM

oh God you have opened a can of worms!
But Dara should be honest here, he's afraid - and I would be to.
I mean I get the point with his style of comedy it's very personal and
about his own life but at the same time, it's a tense subject, and the way he apologises to Muslims about mentioning a golden horse - f*ck off Dara!

Anyway, still love the guy one of my fav. stand ups.

Billy Connolly had the same cultural background as him and he had no issues having a bash at Islam.

smacl · 12-02-2019 10:15am

Hector Savage wrote: »

But Dara should be honest here, he's afraid

So you're accusing Dara O'Brien of firstly being dishonest and then a coward. Do you have some strong evidence to back this up, or is this just a rather unpleasant baseless attack on someone else's character who doesn't share your worldview?

Hector Savage · 12-02-2019 10:51am

smacl wrote: »

So you're accusing Dara O'Brien of firstly being dishonest and then a coward. Do you have some strong evidence to back this up, or is this just a rather unpleasant baseless attack on someone else's character who doesn't share your worldview?

unpleasent ?
hardly unpleasant to suggest he is afraid to slag off something he could be killed for doing - it's not insulting the guy.

Why apologise ? , why handle something with mittens on - if he said what he said without the grovelling at the end, i'd have an easier time believing him.

Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm allready on a warning here so I won't be posting further.

nozzferrahhtoo · 12-02-2019 11:01am

Hector Savage wrote: »

the way he apologises to Muslims about mentioning a golden horse

He didn't. You just heard the word "apologies" and decided on his behalf what was going to follow without actually listening to it.

What he "apologized" for, and it was part of the bit, was the related ignorance about Islam, not his mentioning a golden horse. He was not saying "Sorry I mentioned a horse" he was saying "Sorry if my mentioning it leaves you wondering what horse, what the hell is he talking about"?

The joke here, a feigned apology for the purposes of humor, is that the example he uses is liable to leave a Muslim thinking "What the hell is he talking about". His entire point was that his ignorance, and that of his audience, means trying to make jokes about Islam would be pointless. And he is using the "horse" to highlight he has no idea about Islam, and neither does that audience.

So in fact you not getting the joke at all, which you patently seem not to have, is kinda making his entire point for him. You are the very person his bit was making comedy about.

Hector Savage wrote: »

Why apologise ? , why handle something with mittens on - if he said what he said without the grovelling at the end

He wasn't, there was no grovelling at all. It was part of the bit and was actually laughing at ignorance rather than apologizing for anything. You appear to be merely triggered by anyone using the word "apologies" towards anyone Muslim. And the moment they even dare to use the word, you go off on a complete misrepresentation of their content and intent and meaning, while using the most abject phrases to describe it that you can.

Zubeneschamali · 12-02-2019 11:12am

Hector Savage wrote: »

the way he apologises to Muslims about mentioning a golden horse - f*ck off Dara!

You just proved his point - he makes one joke about islam and you didn't get it.

Odhinn · 12-02-2019 12:30pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

It's pure numbers, it's very very rare you see a hazard of belief here related to Islam - despite it being as of today the most hazourdous.

Just scan through the pages here, it's all about christianity, even more stuff on Hinduism FFS!!

Same with the "Funny side of religion".

Why wouldn't there be christian and hindu related hazards? You have a fixation about Islam and muslims, for whatever reason.

Zubeneschamali · 12-02-2019 2:16pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Why wouldn't there be christian and hindu related hazards?

It also ignores the obvious point that folks here know more about the hazards of Christianity, particularly Catholicism, from personal experience.

robindch · 12-02-2019 11:42pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

Mod:Without checking, my memory suggests that you've been called out on this idiotic trope before, quite possibly by multiple posters. Regardless of that, if you repeat a trope like "nobody ever criticizes islam around here" again, you will be carded for trolling.

I just saw that know, after posting my previous messages. I won't post about it again so - but my point stands.

Your point stands?

You have been carded for trolling and ignoring a moderator instruction.

Peregrinus · 13-02-2019 2:37am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It also ignores the obvious point that folks here know more about the hazards of Christianity, particularly Catholicism, from personal experience.

Which gives rise to the observation that, in terms of its presence in or impact on Ireland and Irish people generally, Islam is hugely over-represented in the criticisms of religion that appear in this thread.

There may be reasons for that, but the point is that the perception that criticism of Islam is avoided or suppressed in this forum is massively at variance with the observed reality. Those who have this impression may be suffering from the hazards of a belief of their own.

Hector Savage · 13-02-2019 9:54am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

What he "apologized" for, and it was part of the bit, was the related ignorance about Islam, not his mentioning a golden horse. He was not saying "Sorry I mentioned a horse" he was saying "Sorry if my mentioning it leaves you wondering what horse, what the hell is he talking about"?

The joke here, a feigned apology for the purposes of humor, is that the example he uses is liable to leave a Muslim thinking "What the hell is he talking about". His entire point was that his ignorance, and that of his audience, means trying to make jokes about Islam would be pointless. And he is using the "horse" to highlight he has no idea about Islam, and neither does that audience.

So in fact you not getting the joke at all, which you patently seem not to have, is kinda making his entire point for him. You are the very person his bit was making comedy about.

Jesus of course I understood that! ffs!

Anyway, get back to sleeping furiously ...

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-02-2019 10:10am

It is not so clear you do understand it, despite the snide and uncalled for pointless empty meaningless dig in your second sentence. You are here complaining he apologized, and using words like "groveling" to describe it. Despite none of that actually having happened. Then when corrected on the narrative you have created out of nowhere, you suddenly declare you were understanding it all along. Color me intensely skeptical I guess.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-02-2019 11:27am

Hector, did you see my post about World Hijab Day? Just a few posts above your first one.

It would help if you'd actually read a thread (never mind the forum as a whole) before making criticisms of it. Unless, of course, you want to put yourself on the same level as religious proselytizers who make claims which are not only without a shred of evidence to back them up, but are easily contradicted with the available evidence.

Your call

Odhinn · 14-02-2019 7:36pm

The lack of any effort to justify remarks made is most telling.

By and large it seems a good addition to the forum rules overall.

Hector Savage · 18-02-2019 4:43pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-47282536/shamima-begum-is-british-bride-says-she-s-sorry-for-deaths
If this isn't a hazard of belief I don't know what is ...

recedite · 19-02-2019 10:03pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-47282536/shamima-begum-is-british-bride-says-she-s-sorry-for-deaths
If this isn't a hazard of belief I don't know what is ...

It seems they are arranging a Bangladeshi passport for her, to replace the British one she burned. Seems like a fair deal.

Ms Begum's mother had received a letter from the Home Office on Tuesday. The letter said Home Secretary Sajid Javid had taken the decision to remove her daughter's British citizenship and the order to do so had subsequently been made.
It asked her mother to let Ms Begum know of the decision and inform her she has a right to appeal.
Whitehall sources confirmed the home secretary had taken the decision.

She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country.
A Home Office spokesman said while he could not discuss individual cases, "we don't leave people stateless".

Ms Begum has said she does not regret travelling to Syria and was partly inspired by videos of fighters beheading hostages, as well as by videos showing "the good life" under IS.
However, she said she did not agree with everything the group had done.
"I actually do support some British values and I am willing to go back to the UK and settle back again and rehabilitate and that stuff," she told the BBC.

In fairness a brutally honest girl, and one who has been through a lot.
But not the kind of person whose beliefs are suited to life in a western democracy, or who deserves to live in one, or who brings anything positive to one.
Meanwhile in Idlib, the other corner of Syria where the last remnants of IS have gathered, people with absolutely no Irish connections are complaining of having difficulty getting evacuated to Ireland.

The letter, seen by RTÉ News, says that some IHAP beneficiaries from the last scheme have had problems exiting Syria to travel to Ireland - particularly from the province of Idlib - and say the situation in Syria remains extremely dangerous.

Peregrinus · 20-02-2019 1:59am

recedite wrote: »

In fairness a brutally honest girl, and one who has been through a lot.
But not the kind of person whose beliefs are suited to life in a western democracy, or who deserves to live in one, or who brings anything positive to one.

Rec, previously you've been quite concerned about the fate of British children who are groomed online for sexual purposes by sinister Muslim gangs, and then subjected to traumatising experiences by those same gangs.

Why the change of heart?

recedite · 20-02-2019 10:41am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Rec, previously you've been quite concerned about the fate of British children who are groomed online for sexual purposes by sinister Muslim gangs, and then subjected to traumatising experiences by those same gangs.
Why the change of heart?

If you're referring to vulnerable non-muslim English girls being groomed on the streets by British Asian gangs for sexual purposes, I don't see much commonality.
In this situation, we have a British Asian girl who is the product of her own family values, and the values/beliefs of her community, which are all very much at odds with what most people would call normal "British" values.

Of course there is a definite unfairness in her current predicament. I don't see that she has committed any crime in the UK. There is a dodgy travel ban in existence but it came in after she had already travelled.

And there are plenty of Islamist activists in the UK who are much more damaging than she is. So it seems she is being scapegoated to some extent. But there are two ways of looking at this. Either a lot more of them (who were too cowardly or too comfortable to actually travel to the Islamic State) should also be stripped of their British citizenship, or else she should be given hers back. I'd go with the former.

Odhinn · 20-02-2019 11:36am

recedite wrote: »

If you're referring to vulnerable non-muslim English girls being groomed on the streets by British Asian gangs for sexual purposes, I don't see much commonality.
In this situation, we have a British Asian girl who is the product of her own family values, and the values/beliefs of her community, which are all very much at odds with what most people would call normal "British" values.
.

No, she was islamised/groomed by extremists. But of course you can't face admitting that.

The Hazards of Belief

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