The Hazards of Belief

robindch

Vivisectus wrote: »

I wonder what it is about pain and the degrading slow failure of your body and it's functions that the church considers so spiritually uplifting. I have seen terminal bowel cancer, and I completely failed to see what is compassionate, holy, or inspirational about excruciating pain and hourly nappy changes.

The hardline catholic religious belief here is that the pain gives the believer an opportunity to "offer up the pain" for the expiation of the sins of the believer, the sins of other people and other items for which god can be supplicated.

Some catholics - I'm looking at you here, Popette - also believe, for example, that "involuntarily" handicapped people in the broadest sense (autistic, otherwise mentally handicapped, physically handicapped, pre-term natural abortions etc) are actually "catholics in spirit" as they are believed to have elected, before birth, to undergo what's perceived as a miserable life, or no life at all, for the same expiation-related reasons.

Hardline catholicism is a very cold place indeed.

kylith

robindch wrote: »

The hardline catholic religious belief here is that the pain gives the believer an opportunity to "offer up the pain" for the expiation of the sins of the believer, the sins of other people and other items for which god can be supplicated.

While Jesus sits up on the cloud wondering what he bothered becoming incarnate for if humans planning to suffer for their own sins. After all wasn't that supposed to be what he was for? To suffer for mankind's sins so we didn't have to?

Mr. CooL ICE

OT, but what does Popette actually mean? I keep seeing references in this forum, but googling says it's a young female music fan

TwoShedsJackson

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

OT, but what does Popette actually mean? I keep seeing references in this forum, but googling says it's a young female music fan

It's a hardline Catholic relative of robindch's, his aunt I think.

obplayer

ID Christian Faith-Healers: 12 Kids Died Since 2011, No One Doing Anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir6kSN_Q4us

robindch

Somebody with a chip on their shoulder, an angle grinder and a very, very long extension lead went for a midnight climb near Killarney last night:

http://www.thejournal.ie/cross-carrauntoohil-cut-down-1794036-Nov2014

.

Hotblack Desiato

A dreadful act of cultural vandalism, by self-serving morons seeking to impose their blinkered ideology upon society.





The erection of the cross in the first place, I mean...

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

Somebody with a chip on their shoulder, an angle grinder and a very, very long extension lead went for a midnight climb near Killarney last night:

http://www.thejournal.ie/cross-carrauntoohil-cut-down-1794036-Nov2014

.

Anyone know why this cross, of the many in the country, was singled out?

Hotblack Desiato

Anyone know why any of our national peaks were desecrated by crosses without planning permission in the first place?

No reason to pick this one apart from it's the highest peak in Ireland, and it's a good start...

Pherekydes

Next stop, the Phoenix Park.

Kivaro

Nodin wrote: »

Anyone know why this cross, of the many in the country, was singled out?

Wait a second.
Isn't this location very near where that idiot county councillor wanted a cross in the council chambers in Killarney?

Maybe this same idiot couldn't get the cross down the hill after cutting it down.

Hotblack Desiato

Kivaro wrote: »

Wait a second.
Isn't this location very near where that idiot county councillor wanted a cross in the council chambers in Killarney?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cross-on-summit-of-carrauntoohil-cut-down-1.2011907

Mr Culloty said Christianity and Catholicism was the religion of the majority of the people and references to it were enshrined in the Constitution.

But he claimed both the Taoiseach and the President had last Christmas made speeches without reference to God, making it “very clear what is coming down the tracks”. This he explained was a reference to the State moving away from its Christian ethos and people having “to give up everything in an attempt to become secular”.

He said he saw the removal of the cross as part of a drive to “allow what is not normal and to become normal”. He said he meant abortion, gay marriage and “assisted dying” as issues which were not normal.

Mr Culloty said it was his job to promote his faith “in a respectful way” and the special place of Christianity and Catholicism would not be removed from Irish life until the people of Ireland ever choose to change the constitution and honour “the Koran” or any other religious symbol in place of the cross.

Seems he can't comprehend the idea that a constitution doesn't need to 'honour' a religion at all... and shouldn't.

PopePalpatine

Jaysus, he sounds like one of the far-right headbangers from t'udder forum.

RikuoAmero

I just don't get it. So that guy, Cullotty, would be fine with Ireland having any religion enshrined in the constitution, even if it's a false religion from his point of view...but to remove religion entirely and have no mention of it? Oh no, can't have that!

the_monkey

So Katie Taylor thanks God again for her victory --- yep thats right Katie , God let's ISIS murder all those men,women and children - but he steps in to make sure you win a "let's see who can cause the max brain damage" contest.

PopePalpatine

Turkey looks as if it's off my list of holiday destinations for the time being: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30183711

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/crumlin-referrals-for-embryo-screening-halted-on-legal-advice-1.2012400

Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital in Crumlin, Dublin, stopped referring patients abroad for a controversial reproductive treatment after receiving legal advice that the referrals could be unconstitutional.

Staff at the National Centre for Medical Genetics, which is based at Crumlin, had to cease direct referrals for pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD), though they are allowed to provide patients with information about services overseas.

PGD is used in conjunction with IVF to screen embryos for genetic disorders. Only those embryos diagnosed as free of a specific disorder are implanted into a woman to try to achieve a pregnancy. Controversially, the embryos that are not implanted in the woman are destroyed.

The centre stopped referring women abroad in 2006 and still adheres to this policy, even though two private clinics in the Republic have since been licensed to sample embryos as part of a PGD service.

The centre is under the governance of the hospital, which is chaired by the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin. Staff say the current chairman, Dr Diarmuid Martin, who has been in place since 2004, has never interfered in the centre’s work.

robindch

A creationist visits Chicago's Science Museum. Multifacepalmage ensues.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/24/christian-fundamentalist-goes-science-museum-audit-its-liberal-bias-makes-ass-self-video/

One eyed Jack

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/crumlin-referrals-for-embryo-screening-halted-on-legal-advice-1.2012400

Read the article, and this bit jumped out at me -

Mr Murphy reviewed documentation from Guy’s and St Thomas’s Hospital in London, a leader in the field, and came to the conclusion that PGD “inevitably and necessarily involves the destruction of human embryos”.

The destruction of embryos in this process would be unlawful in Ireland and would appear to involve a violation of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution on the right to life, he advised.

I'm wondering did Mr. Murphy review the case of Roche -v- Roche & ors (2009) in coming to his conclusion?

Hotblack Desiato

From the judgement:

2. I am also satisfied that the frozen embryos do not enjoy the protection of the guarantees provided to the right to life of the unborn by Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution. I agree, for the reasons given in the judgments of Hardiman J. and Geoghegan J. that Article 40.3.3 does not extend to or include frozen embryos which have not been implanted. I do not think that the constitutional provision should be considered only as being intended to reinforce the effect of section 58 of the Offences against the Person Act, 1861. The people, in adopting the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution employed distinct, new and independent language.

In any case if the embryos are being sent to the UK for testing, wouldn't any destruction be taking place there? (although there are now clinics doing the testing here. Was thinking of another unrelated article I read today)

Brian Shanahan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Read the article, and this bit jumped out at me -





I'm wondering did Mr. Murphy review the case of Roche -v- Roche & ors (2009) in coming to his conclusion?

So, basicly, what we have here is a pro-life fundie institution making a decision based on a man talking out of his rear end. Quelle suprise.

Sacksian

Feel free to move if it's not in the correct thread.

Basically, actor gets 26-years for possibly offending religious people. Not sure how binding the sentence is, as it seems to only apply in the region it was handed down.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/nov/27/bollywood-veena-malik-sentenced-26-years-jail-religious-blasphemy-wedding

The actor Veena Malik has expressed anger at a 26-year jail term handed down by a Pakistani court after she acted in a scene loosely based on the marriage of the prophet Muhammad’s daughter.

The same sentence was extended to her husband, and to Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman, owner of the Jang-Geo media group which broadcast the TV show. All three were ordered to surrender their passports and fined 3m rupees (£8,000).

The offending scene involved Malik re-enacting her own wedding to businessman Asad Bashir Khan while a religious song played in the background.

SebBerkovich

robindch wrote: »

A creationist visits Chicago's Science Museum. Multifacepalmage ensues.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/24/christian-fundamentalist-goes-science-museum-audit-its-liberal-bias-makes-ass-self-video/

I managed about 36 seconds and from that i've learned that people need to push the boundaries a little more when doing parodies of right-wing creationists they're starting to embody the current parodies.

robindch

The American Atheists are launching a christmas campaign which seems designed specifically to get up the noses of the religious. Can't wait to see how this will go down. Or more likely up. In smoke.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11265926/American-Atheists-launch-provocative-campaign-in-religious-Deep-South.html

Daily Terrorgraph wrote:

Atheist activists are taking their campaigns to the Bible Belt this Christmas with a provocative billboard campaign that is expected to stir controversy in America's religious heartlands. The giant advertising hoardings in the Tennessee cities of Memphis, Nashville, St. Louis and Fort Smith, Arkansas show a mischievous-looking young girl writing her letter to Father Christmas: "Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is to skip church! I'm too old for fairy tales," she writes.

The advertising campaign by the American Atheists group will run until Christmas Eve and is the first time the group has aimed its anti-God adverts directly at residential religious areas, having previously targeted urban audiences in big venues such as Times Square in New York. "Today's adults have no obligation to pretend to believe the lies their parents believed. It's OK to admit that your parents were wrong about God, and it's definitely OK to tell your children the truth," said David Silverman, the group's president, as he launched the campaign.

In a sign of the hostility the adverts are expected to generate, American Atheists said that it had failed secure a single billboard site in Jackson, Mississippi after leasing companies collectively refused to offer space, fearing a community backlash. "The fact that billboard companies would turn away business because they are so concerned about the reaction by the community shows just how much education and activism on behalf of atheists is needed in the South," added Danielle Muscato, the group's spokesperson.

America remains deeply religious relative to Europe, with not a single self-professed atheist among the 535 members of the US Congress. US presidential candidates are also expected to believe in God. However recent social surveys have shown a sharp rise in religious non-affiliation among young people, accompanied by a decline in attendance among mainstream Anglican, Episcopalian and Catholic churches over the past 30 years. According to the Pew research group, one third of Americans aged 18 to 29 now say they have "no religious affiliation", compared with less than 10 per cent of their grandparents' generation.

At the same time, America has seen a rise in the number of so-called "mega churches" where mostly Evangelical congregations of 10,000 or more worship with rock bands and charismatic preachers in converted baseball stadiums and other large venues. However recent research by Mark Chaves, a divinity and sociology professor at Duke University and author of "America Religion: Contemporary Trends", has indicated that Evangelical groups could now be succumbing to the same forces of secularisation as other churches. Using data from the University of Chicago's General Social Survey, Prof Chaves discovered that among White Evangelicals born in the decade 1981-90, some 22 per cent now say they have no religion, a figure close to the 24 per cent of mainstream Protestants born in the same decade who said the same.

The Black Oil

Pakistan - militants and government incompetence doing their best to hinder immunisation against polio.

Many people here think the polio vaccination campaign is a western conspiracy to sterilise their children - it's an idea the Taliban have been putting about for 10 years now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30133279

robindch

Hoist with his own petar', a popular, fundamentalist preacher in Pakistan is filmed making "blasphemous" comments - apology ensues - the apology is useless - the preacher disappears.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30317436

Hotblack Desiato

Celibate men say gay marriage bad, blah blah blah

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/bishops-say-same-sex-marriage-would-be-grave-injustice-1.2024464

Placing a heavy emphasis on the responsibility of a functioning, heterosexual relationship in the child rearing process, the publication states that the “upbringing of children is uniquely possible” through conventional, church-endorsed marital relationships.

How dare they say that our family isn't every bit as good as any other, just becase we didn't get married in church :mad:

MrPudding

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Celibate men say gay marriage bad, blah blah blah

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/bishops-say-same-sex-marriage-would-be-grave-injustice-1.2024464



How dare they say that our family isn't every bit as good as any other, just becase we didn't get married in church :mad:

He probably has a point, a very weak one bit a point none the less. A good family, in his eyes, would, presumably, promote his particular strain of religion. Other familes may not.
My own for example, fours kids. None catholic, none religious, and questioning everything, absolutely not
catholic.

MrP

Kivaro

One hazard of belief is that the vatican may forget where it has hidden the flock's money.

The Vatican's economy minister has said hundreds of millions of euro were found "tucked away" in accounts of various Holy See departments.

In an article for Britain's 'Catholic Herald Magazine', Australian Cardinal George Pell wrote that the discovery meant overall Vatican finances were in better shape than previously believed.

"In fact, we have discovered that the situation is much healthier than it seemed, because some hundreds of millions of euro were tucked away in particular sectional accounts and did not appear on the balance sheet," he wrote.

Some of the comments on the Indo article are funny:
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/hundreds-of-millions-found-tucked-away-in-the-vatican-30803648.html

RikuoAmero

Kivaro wrote: »

snip

"That money was only resting in my account!"
Gotta love Fr. Ted.