The Sub 3 Support Thread

What did you say you ran? Was it 6:27s? How far away is your marathon? Keep doing what you're doing and watch your time come down. Carlingford half will be a decent gauge for you. I did 1:23 after less that 4 weeks of a programme and it was a great confidence boost. A race is a good wake up call and then go into training after that with a fresh idea. I might see you in Carlingford, don't think i'll be fit for 1:23 but I want to push things and see. I think spring training is horrible but a decent springboard for the autumn races. Think longer term. What are your tempos and intervals looking like? I can tell you what worked for me to get in under the 3. There are people on here who have very fast set times in the half and equate that to sub3 fit but I think if you're in the 1:26/1:27 then it's on as long as you get your miles in and race smart.

squinn2912 wrote: »

What did you say you ran? Was it 6:27s? How far away is your marathon? Keep doing what you're doing and watch your time come down. Carlingford half will be a decent gauge for you. I did 1:23 after less that 4 weeks of a programme and it was a great confidence boost. A race is a good wake up call and then go into training after that with a fresh idea. I might see you in Carlingford, don't think i'll be fit for 1:23 but I want to push things and see. I think spring training is horrible but a decent springboard for the autumn races. Think longer term. What are your tempos and intervals looking like? I can tell you what worked for me to get in under the 3. There are people on here who have very fast set times in the half and equate that to sub3 fit but I think if you're in the 1:26/1:27 then it's on as long as you get your miles in and race smart.

1.23 after 4 weeks of a programme is savage running ? Did you have a lot of base done ? Let me know if you sign up ðŸ‘

Did 1.08.15 in Trim today averaging 648 per mile .
Avg HR was 166 . Found it difficult . Went well for 6 miles but the last 4 was into the wind and I struggled. I did not seem to have any strength on the short drags . Perhaps the recovery time between Raheny and Trim was not sufficient. Had a Epsom bath when I came home and have the compression tights on. Have fed and hydrated well since the race. Tomorrow i will just swim easy at lunch.
My time in Raheny had me at VDOT 51 . Today is VDOT 50. Sub 3 is VDOT 54. Realistically with 9 weeks to go 54 is a reach . Add in the 314m total elevation makes it a bigger reach . However I will keep chipping away to see how close I can get. I have 4 quality weeks of training ahead before Carlingford Half . Will keep it lit . Happy running to everyone ðŸ‘

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Did 1.08.15 in Trim today averaging 648 per mile .
Avg HR was 166 . Found it difficult . Went well for 6 miles but the last 4 was into the wind and I struggled. I did not seem to have any strength on the short drags . Perhaps the recovery time between Raheny and Trim was not sufficient. Had a Epsom bath when I came home and have the compression tights on. Have fed and hydrated well since the race. Tomorrow i will just swim easy at lunch.
My time in Raheny had me at VDOT 51 . Today is VDOT 50. Sub 3 is VDOT 54. Realistically with 9 weeks to go 54 is a reach . Add in the 314m total elevation makes it a bigger reach . However I will keep chipping away to see how close I can get. I have 4 quality weeks of training ahead before Carlingford Half . Will keep it lit . Happy running to everyone ðŸ‘

Well done on persevering! That 10m sounded like a slog and no doubt that the 5m was in your legs. 9 weeks out is realistically 7 weeks of work when you factor in this week to recover (you are doing all the right stuff but the fibres will take a few days) and a taper week. 7 weeks work (including the half marathon)

From a VDOt perspective its encouraging that you have gone from 48ish for 5k to 51 for 5M and 50 for the 10m. Even with the wind on the last 4m in Trim though I'd be concerned about the lack of strength endurance.

With 7 weeks work left are you training to the sub 3 paces or have you established marathon pace/effort and hop it will speed up as you build?

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

There's a English guy on YouTube vloging his training targeting a 2:55 marathon in Newport his chanel is called FOD runner. I haven't watched any of his videos so I can't really comment on the content. But some here might find it interesting

Watched a couple. The 800s VLG was interesting to see the suffering but the paces were all over the shop and he was slurring his words (as we all would be at the end of 8x800). Good feedback for himself to play back how he was feeling on certain runs or having the video of memorable training runs. That snowy one looked gorgeaous

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Well done on persevering! That 10m sounded like a slog and no doubt that the 5m was in your legs. 9 weeks out is realistically 7 weeks of work when you factor in this week to recover (you are doing all the right stuff but the fibres will take a few days) and a taper week. 7 weeks work (including the half marathon)

From a VDOt perspective its encouraging that you have gone from 48ish for 5k to 51 for 5M and 50 for the 10m. Even with the wind on the last 4m in Trim though I'd be concerned about the lack of strength endurance.

With 7 weeks work left are you training to the sub 3 paces or have you established marathon pace/effort and hop it will speed up as you build?

Cheers! I believe the conditions slowed my time yesterday by how much i dont know however i know i was running at my limit. 180th last year would have had me in at 1.06.23 with a similar sized field.
Today i am contemplating skipping Carlingford Half and just training right through. Am on the fence ...9 weeks training sounds better than 7 weeks
Re my paces i am taking them down by about 3 secs per week for MP , and proportionally for intervals. So hoping will hit the numbers by marathon day.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Have you entered Carlingford? though not a great idea to race it and smash yourself to get the best time, not great to throw money away either. You could do it all of part of it at PMP? Saying that though its pretty hard to be disciplined and run within yourself in a race! I guess its a question of what you want more, a marathon PB or a half marathon pb?

Yes have entered. Am going to see how training goes over the next few weeks before i decide. Am over in London with work the week of Carlingford so a hard run on the Sat might feed in with the training
Went for a very sore 6 miles crawl yesterday and did 8 miles easy this morning and felt better. Where is best to look at the Hansens method?

Also whats one thoughts on the below? Stephen Scullion shared it on Twitter yesterday
http://www.sweatelite.co/training-sub-205-marathon/

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

Even to apply that training to a sub 3 target. Not to many people could do that kind of training. They might have aerobic base but there body would break down quickly and pick up injuries.

I totally agree. id say if i tried 25 x 400 id get injured
Got my metabolic age test the other day. Id be suspect about it since my feet did not fit on the scales. According to it my metabolic age is 29 ..down from 44
..body fat is 11.2% ,visceral fat 4.3%.
I might try it again in 6 weeks to see if there is any change.
Run wise feel am well recovered after Trim . I did 17.5 miles Sat morning which was broken down in 8 miles easy, 6 miles at MP and 3.5 easy. I found it difficult to run my current marathon pace of 7.05 per mile. Dont know what it is but if i run 8 miles at 8 min a mile then go into 6 miles at 7.05....i find it hard for the body to respond and accelerate into the pace. The HR wont increase
Similar session this Sat . will see how it goes and if it was a fatigue thing.
Today went better.... did 9 miles at lunch,,,,,2 wu. then 4 x 1
coming in at 6.27,6.25,6.25,6.27...then 4x 400 coming in at 1.30,1.28,1.28,1.31 then cool down.
8 weeks out yesterday

MrMacPhisto wrote: »

Is Boston in 9 weeks rather than 8? :eek:

Thanks your right .... 9 To go ... cheers

Looking for a 15-20 min core work session to do at home in the evenings twice a week . Anyone got any recommendations? Tks

Yer wan above or this guy https://youtu.be/sM9WOGXNcyY

Did limerick last year and thought it was a great race. Last 5 miles are pretty tough with some dodgy hills but that just adds to the challenge

don't suppose anyone happens to have the P&D 55-70 plan in excel format that they could mail me.? (just being lazy/cheap with regards to going to buy the book)!!

Bahanaman wrote: »

Have the book as a pdf if that's any use? The plan is in it.

dropped you a pm there Bahanaman. thanks

Half way through the Hansons Plan

Just 3 "Long" Runs registered, 14, 14 and 15 miles. However the paces were 7:36, 7:10 and 7:10 respectively. Just 3x 16 mile LRs left in the second half. I've rarely gone to 20+ milers in marathon training but I like to hit 2hrs to 2:10. 16 miles at the Hansons pace wont even hit 2hrs!

I'm a little ahead of the prescribed mileage but that's just mainly bits of miles at the end of most runs or a slightly longer warm up for sessions.

So far the speed and tempo work has been tough but manageable. Tomorrow is the last speed session 3x1,600m and there is no LR this weekend. The legs are tired so I'll approach the speed session with caution. I've often felt like that the day before the speed intervals session but this week the legs feel more like DOMs than just fatigue.

How did folk find the cumulative fatigue element?
How was the transition from speed to strength?
Did anyone stick religiously to "just" 3x 16 LRs?

How are the other current sub3 hopefuls getting on? Bryangiggsy?

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Half way through the Hansons Plan

Just 3 "Long" Runs registered, 14, 14 and 15 miles. However the paces were 7:36, 7:10 and 7:10 respectively. Just 3x 16 mile LRs left in the second half. I've rarely gone to 20+ milers in marathon training but I like to hit 2hrs to 2:10. 16 miles at the Hansons pace wont even hit 2hrs!

I'm a little ahead of the prescribed mileage but that's just mainly bits of miles at the end of most runs or a slightly longer warm up for sessions.

So far the speed and tempo work has been tough but manageable. Tomorrow is the last speed session 3x1,600m and there is no LR this weekend. The legs are tired so I'll approach the speed session with caution. I've often felt like that the day before the speed intervals session but this week the legs feel more like DOMs than just fatigue.

How did folk find the cumulative fatigue element?
How was the transition from speed to strength?
Did anyone stick religiously to "just" 3x 16 LRs?

How are the other current sub3 hopefuls getting on? Bryangiggsy?

I found the cumulative fatigue ok as long as I stuck to easy and recovery run paces on the non-"sos" days. By the end of the plan, I was near the limit but not over it. The taper was short and I didn't feel as tapered in the final days coming up to my race compared to other plans, but I was ready when I toed the line.

The transition from speed to strength was a breath of fresh air for me. It is like a step back from the edge. The strength workouts were my favourite of the plan. It is a comfortable pace after the slog of the MP tempos and speedwork. These workouts gave me good confidence.

I didn't stick religiously to the 16 mile long run. I think I did a 16, 17 and 18. With a couple of these long runs, I did a parkrun at the end, increasing effort towards MP, this was a huge psychological boost for me.

The important days are the easy/recovery days. The days I struggled on SOS workouts I could pinpoint an easy day where I probably went too hard because I felt good which adversely affected the workout.