Do you believe in God?

branie2 · 28-09-2019 10:58am

I believe in God

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:59am

Upforthematch wrote: »

Do I believe in God? Yes I do.

Prayer is important to me. I like reading history and prayer has been important to most cultures I've read about.

When I pray I feel like I am participating in one of the most fundamental human impulses there is. It's up there with the urge to eat, procreate, kill, love and so on!

Which God do I pray to? I pray to the God who listens to me! And I believe that God is Jesus.

If he listens to you, why have bad things happened to you?

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:02am

fisgon wrote: »

No, this is bollocks. The idea that the church, and the ideology that it represents, is not responsible for the crimes committed is frankly delusional.

The crimes you’re alluding to were committed by individuals. The Catholic Church has never represented an ideology that suggests it is morally acceptable for it’s members to rape children for example. So the idea of holding 2bn people responsible for the small number of degenerate fcuks that commit rape is using a non-representative sample size to argue your point. There are a small number of non-representative feminists who try and use the same logic to argue that “rape culture” is a thing in Western society, when the statistics suggest that the number of men who actually commit rape is 7% of men, hardly a representative sample. The percentage of people within the Catholic Church who commit rape against children hovers somewhere around the 4% mark according to most research that has been done on the issue. That’s just one crime, and the figures for other crimes which you can associate with members of the Catholic Church would be in similar single digit figures. The way you’re talking, what you’re doing is literally blowing something out of proportion and using guilt by association to associate crimes with an ideology, when those crimes are not at all in any way supported or encouraged by that ideology.

That sort of argument flies in the face of our judicial system where we hold individuals responsible for their crimes, rather than maintaining that a group of people are responsible for criminal acts committed by individuals. It’s a good thing too our judicial system works like that as opposed to a delusional argument that people are guilty of criminal actions by associating them with people who have been found guilty of having committed criminal acts.

fisgon wrote: »

It is not just down to individuals - this is the "few bad apples" argument that the church itself uses to wash its hands of the awful things it was responsible for. It's like saying that the purges in the old USSR, the political prisoners, the gulags and the oppression of citizens had nothing to do with communism - it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone.

Well, it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone. That’s exactly my point. Your perspective is “Reds under the bed” style stuff - fearmongering, suspicion and paranoid nonsense. I’m not going to go so far as to say you’re delusional though, I just don’t share your perspective is all.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 11:07am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The crimes you’re alluding to were committed by individuals. The Catholic Church has never represented an ideology that suggests it is morally acceptable for it’s members to rape children for example..

Is it not dogma that the pope is infallible?

Can you say with certainty that the vatican, and the various popes, knew nothing of anything that was going on anywhere? No rumours ever got back? They never questioned anything going on? Never wondered why various ranks within the hierarchy in various countries were moved around all the time?

It doesnt have to be policy to rape children for the organisation to be responsible.

smacl · 28-09-2019 11:07am

nthclare wrote: »

I believe in Love

Thats it in a nutshell, but being an agnostic I've come across more atheists being **** than religious people on these forums.

Atheist's don't ask you first which God you believe in ?

They just automatically have their mind's made up before the argument...sky faires, and bashing the church and the crusade's don't forget burning the witches...

if there was different Gods I'd consider the Abrahamic God a sand demon from the middle East
It's far from being an all loving entity, he's a right bipolar prick...

I'd rather the pagan god's myself, more in touch with the earth and humanity.

So you believe in love, call atheists **** for ridiculing the Christian god and then go to call their god a bipolar prick? Right.... :rolleyes:

Upforthematch · 28-09-2019 11:09am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If he listens to you, why have bad things happened to you?

I don't know the answer to that.

Bad, and sometimes really awful, things happen to those who do and don't pray.

Awful things happened to Jesus as well and I happen to believe he is God!

As I said prayer is a very human impulse. Whether it is a prayer of thanks for the good things or a prayer of petition to help with the bad things I do believe God listens.

However, I guess you could also say I don't believe heaven is a place on Earth.

Micky 32 · 28-09-2019 11:10am

No.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 28-09-2019 11:13am

yosser hughes wrote: »

I have a question for you OP. You say you believe in God, light candles for people etc. So you must believe therefore that God can intervene in our lives? Do you also believe then that God is all seeing?
Do you live your life believing God can see what you do?

'So you must believe therefore...'

That's a very big assumption you've made from my post. I don't believe there is an all seeing God.

We're here for a reason though. Not 'everything happens for a reason'. But we are here. So I'm happy to concede that a God made this life occur.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 11:16am

It's fairly telling that plenty of people who profess to believe are unwilling to discuss their belief, as if it wont stand up to scrutiny.

Again, its a very religious position to take.
"this is the way things are"
"why, what about this?"
"because we say so"

Funnily enough, when things like the referendums on same sex marriage or the 8th amendment were ongoing , they were full of debate.

They are clearly reading the thread as they are thanking posts......

basillarkin · 28-09-2019 11:19am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Maybe God just doesn't give a **** or follows a non interventionist policy.

then why call him god

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:22am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is it not dogma that the pope is infallible?

It is, but that dogma is associated with Canon Law, not Civil Law.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Can you say with certainty that the vatican, and the various popes, knew nothing of anything that was going on anywhere? No rumours ever got back? They never questioned anything going on? Never wondered why various ranks within the hierarchy in various countries were moved around all the time?

I could of course say all those things with certainty. I could make all sorts of allegations against anyone I wanted to. In order for those people to be found guilty of anything though, I would have to provide evidence for my belief that they are guilty of having committed the crimes of which they are accused. Otherwise the allegations are simply meaningless and I wouldn’t entertain an allegation without sufficient supporting evidence to put a person on trial accusing them of committing a criminal offence. Simply making an allegation against a person isn’t sufficient evidence to find that person guilty of committing the criminal act which they are accused of.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt have to be policy to rape children for the organisation to be responsible.

It does if you expect your allegations should be taken seriously.

Ultrflat · 28-09-2019 11:25am

I believe in dog

Disclaimer poster maybe dyslexic.

RiderOnTheStorm · 28-09-2019 11:32am

You can believe in God without supporting the various organised religions.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-09-2019 11:37am

I’m very torn about God. I so want to believe that God exists and there is an afterlife in which we’ll all be united with loved ones again but there are more reasons not to believe in God. War, famine, disease, murder, rape/abuse of children and so on. I know the church has explained that away by saying God gave man free will to live his/her life as they wished and does not intervene in humankind’s actions yet the same church declares miracles as acts of God for a very tiny amount of people so why does he help them and not billions of others. Miracles do happen but they’re random acts of the universe and not caused or created by any God.

My dad died 20 years ago and more than anything else in this universe I want to be with him again (when I die) and for that reason I struggle with my faith and search desperately for reasons to believe in God.

The White Wolf · 28-09-2019 11:43am

fisgon wrote: »

I haven't believed in a god for 20 years. My life is much better for having let go of the superstition, delusion, ignorance and pointless guilt.

Guilt was never really an issue for me even when I had belief. Makes me wonder what some of you are up to.

uptherebels · 28-09-2019 11:46am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence. Suicide bombers too are a minority within their religion (you’re using the guilt by association fallacy I mentioned earlier), and I could just as easily use the same argument to pose the question - how many people’s lives are destroyed when someone chooses to take their own life? How much suffering is caused? You’ll find that there is a strong correlation between people who are of the belief that there should be no stigma attached to the idea of a person choosing to take their own life, and the people who attempt to condemn other people who they see as wanting to make people suffer.

Utter nonsense from you again Pete. The church is the people, hat make up its membership. The church moved priests around allowing them to commit crimes elsewhere. A small number of church members committed crimes but they were abetted by the majority especially by the higher ups.

the beer revolu · 28-09-2019 11:52am

Ultrflat wrote: »

I believe in dog
Disclaimer poster maybe dyslexic.

If there was a god, he would have removed that unoriginal, unfunny thought from your head before you posted it.

TheRepentent · 28-09-2019 11:54am

No, you have to be a special type of stupid to swallow that sh1te.Grown aldults worshipping a reanimated corpse is mental.

As for the RCC apologists..go away , you haven't a leg to stand on...the church actively facilitated and protected child abusers end of story.

Church on Tuesday · 28-09-2019 11:59am

Only on a Tuesday.

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:59am

uptherebels wrote: »

Utter nonsense from you again Pete. The church is the people, hat make up its membership. The church moved priests around allowing them to commit crimes elsewhere. A small number of church members committed crimes but they were abetted by the majority especially by the higher ups.

Might you be confusing me with someone else?

To your point though - you’re again conflating “the Church” with “people who are guilty of aiding and abetting criminals”. They’re not even close to being the same thing. Draw a Venn diagram and there would be a very small intersection between the two groups. You even admit as much yourself when you acknowledge that a small number of church members committed crimes (we’re agreed on that much), but then you go completely off the reservation to try and tar the majority of members of the Catholic Church, before coming back to again acknowledging that it was “the higher ups” (and I would suggest only a minority among the higher ups), who aided and abetted and facilitated criminal behaviour among a minority of it’s members.

The argument is as dumb as suggesting that the majority of rapes are committed by men, therefore all men are guilty of committing rape, and if men don’t buy into the whole “rape culture” nonsense, they’re aiding, abetting and facilitating the minority of men who commit rape. I’d tell anyone to fcuk off with that kind of shìte if they tried to associate me with rapists solely by virtue of the fact that we share one trait in common.

s7ryf3925pivug · 28-09-2019 12:00pm

There's no God, there's just manipulative cnuts.
Afterlife, spirit, magic, psychic powers, crystal energy all nonsense.

stratowide · 28-09-2019 12:00pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

I don't know the answer to that.

Bad, and sometimes really awful, things happen to those who do and don't pray.

Awful things happened to Jesus as well and I happen to believe he is God!

It's almost as if he doesn't exist at all so isn't it.

Sagats_knee · 28-09-2019 12:03pm

Orthodox Christian, YES!

gormdubhgorm · 28-09-2019 12:07pm

No I don't it does not make sense to me praying is just like talking to yourself. But I would not knock other people who believe in God. Especially if it makes them act decently to people, gives them inner peace and strength.
Some people need this safety net in times of need.

realitykeeper · 28-09-2019 12:07pm

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:11pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Especially if it makes them act decently to people,.

Surely if they need the fear of god to be nice to people, they arent nice people and are just being nice so god doesnt smite them?

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:13pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life.

Ah here, no you dont. That statement implies you can prove it.

You belive there is a god and afterlife, you dont and cant know there is.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:14pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

and yet manages to get so much of it wrong.

kildare lad · 28-09-2019 12:16pm

My brother is real religious and I asked him what to people do all day in heaven , he replied "you pray and sing all day " , I told him I'd rather go to hell

28-09-2019 12:17pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

Bless you Sister, may all your sons be bishops.

Yester · 28-09-2019 12:17pm

I think there might be a creator, but he made this a long time ago and has since moved on to other projects. He will probably come back to this someday and decide whether to update it or scrap it.

Upforthematch · 28-09-2019 12:18pm

stratowide wrote: »

It's almost as if he doesn't exist at all so isn't it.

Well Jesus did say "My God, my God why have you forsaken me". But then when you look a bit deeper he was quoting an amazing Jewish prayer (psalm 21). A prayer starting in despair which turned into great hope.

That's why reading about history and the role of prayer in it is so interesting. Genuine people, with genuine fears and genuine faith.

markc1184 · 28-09-2019 12:18pm

I used to, not anymore. Absolutely no issue with anyone else believing in God. They can believe what they want.

stratowide · 28-09-2019 12:18pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

Ah here..You have to on the whacky baccy there chief.

gormdubhgorm · 28-09-2019 12:22pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely if they need the fear of god to be nice to people, they arent nice people and are just being nice so god doesnt smite them?

That is one of looking at it the negative way.
But I don't know if you follow GAA - but there is a manager for tyrone called Micky Harte he is very religious.
His faith has kept him sane in the face of tragedy when his daughter was murdered.

https://extra.ie/2018/03/30/news/real-life/mickey-harte-documentary-death-daughter

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/family-faith-and-football-the-mickey-harte-interview-1.3369507

If that brings a guy solace what is the harm in it?
I might not believe in it myself nor need it - but I would not knock it outright just because I don't.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 12:29pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Totally, unequivocally and with all my heart, soul and every part of my being.

why do you believe in god? what proof have you seen to believe in god?

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:30pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But I don't know if you follow GAA - but there is a manager for tyrone called Micky Harte he is very religious.
His faith has kept him sane in the face of tragedy when his daughter was murdered.

.

I dont follow GAA but I do remember him giving a character reference to someone convicted of a sexual crime. Youd think his religion would get him to show sympathy with a victim.

Drumpot · 28-09-2019 12:30pm

The remarkable thing about the god debate is absolute ignorance and hubris that you generally see from both sides...

Religion has its flaws alright and has very questionable beliefs but nature and humans abhor a vacuum. Whether it’s atheism or consumerism or capitalism, religion will be replaced with individualistic morals and ethics eventually. My parents were religious. I’m not overly religious and my children prob won’t be that religious. In 100 years whatever morals I have will of been dlluted into whatever bullsh*t shallow ethos the society of that generation follows.

People really can’t see beyond their own faces. “I’m atheist and I’m a good person”. What does even mean? It’s so short sighted it’s not funny. How will
Help your future generations? How do they practise your principles? We need constant reminders because humans are fickle and shallow and selfish , self absorbed walking narcissists. Just different individual levels of selfishness.

Organised religions or beliefs (consumerism, laws, politics, financial systems) create order and mould our morals/ethics. The world can go on without religion but one thing religion does have at its core (even if it’s not always followed) is good moral guidelines. Without religion and getting more and more shallow with capitalism and consumerism that’s where the future generations get their junk values.

NickNickleby · 28-09-2019 12:30pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely if they need the fear of god to be nice to people, they arent nice people and are just being nice so god doesnt smite them?

So, if people don't commit murder, its just because its illegal and they'll go to jail.

Actually, my take on religion and God is that the emphasis is on doing the right thing, by yourself and everyone else. Rather than, don't do the wrong thing or you'll get yours!

Stephen Hawkins doesn't believe in God, but he says that if God exists, it must be somehow outside of our whole existence and by the Laws of Nature couldn't intervene here even if he wanted to. I think

:pac:. Its a hard read!

Anyway, despite the lack of real evidence, I like to believe there is a benevolent Creator, and that we'll get to meet him and our dead relatives later.

I remember reading that Carl Sagan said something along the lines of "WE are here to appreciate the beauty of the cosmos". Imagine if we are the ONLY ones in all the Universe to do that, that thought alone ought to be enough to get us to forget silly little differences. Maybe through science and discovery, that's where were headed.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:31pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

why do you believe in god? what proof have you seen to believe in god?

Youre not allowed to ask or question that, we've already been down his road.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:32pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

So, if people don't commit murder, its just because its illegal and they'll go to jail.
.

No, people can be good. Thats the point. They dont need religion to tell them to be.

Groups in the community can do all the good things they need to do without being under the umbrella of the church. If anything, having the added expense of a church to run only takes away from good being done.

gormdubhgorm · 28-09-2019 12:33pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I dont follow GAA but I do remember him giving a character reference to someone convicted of a sexual crime. Youd think his religion would get him to show sympathy with a victim.

See again - that is two negatives you are going for.
Harte may have thought he was being compassionate another advantage of religion if it is sincere.
Obviously it is clear you have your own agenda here nothing positive about religion etc. Which is a bit hyperbolic.
Open your eyes a bit more and be less narrow in your thinking.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 12:33pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Youre not allowed to ask or question that, we've already been down his road.

have we? has grace been asked this already? im just curious as to why people believe in god when there seems to be zero evidence of his/her existence.

NickNickleby · 28-09-2019 12:35pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, people can be good. Thats the point. They dont need religion to tell them to be.

Groups in the community can do all the good things they need to do without being under the umbrella of the church. If anything, having the added expense of a church to run only takes away from good being done.

But then surely they don't need laws to tell them either.

I suppose its a kind of circular argument, and such is the nature of 'belief' , I actually think we can both be right, if that makes any sense.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:40pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

But then surely they don't need laws to tell them either.

I suppose its a kind of circular argument, and such is the nature of 'belief' , I actually think we can both be right, if that makes any sense.

Personally I dont need the laws to tell me, no.

I dont litter and consider people who do, to be scumbags. Theres no excuse for it.My kids are told the same and know not to either. This was instilled in me from my parents. Thats where I got my morals, not from the church.

I could drive down quiet roads throwing my rubbish out the window without any fear of being caught, but I dont. Again, I'm not a scumbag. Same as growing up with a group of friends that didnt spend out time hassling other people and causing trouble.

The same is applied to all the other aspect of my day to day life , all the little things that add up to me generally going about my life not contributing to making someone elses life ****ty as much as possible.

eviltwin · 28-09-2019 12:42pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

But then surely they don't need laws to tell them either.

I suppose its a kind of circular argument, and such is the nature of 'belief' , I actually think we can both be right, if that makes any sense.

There's probably as many people of faith disrespecting laws as non religious. Look at the travellers for one. It all depends on the person

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 12:43pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

See again - that is two negatives you are going for.
Harte may have thought he was being compassionate another advantage of religion if it is sincere.
Obviously it is clear you have your own agenda here nothing positive about religion etc. Which is a bit hyperbolic.
Open your eyes a bit more and be less narrow in your thinking.

I see religion as a pointless exercise that doesnt add anything that cant be done without it and gives people excuses to act badly but hide behind their religion and if hey do ill say it.

Theres a clear line in a sexual assault case of who deserves compassion and if your religion is clouding that then something is wrong with it. Much like the people in Kerry, was it, lining up to shake the guys hand a few years back.

gormdubhgorm · 28-09-2019 12:44pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Personally I dont need the laws to tell me, no.

I dont litter and consider people who do, to be scumbags. Theres no excuse for it.My kids are told the same and know not to either. This was instilled in me from my parents. Thats where I got my morals, not from the church.

I could drive down quiet roads throwing my rubbish out the window without any fear of being caught, but I dont. Again, I'm not a scumbag. Same as growing up with a group of friends that didnt spend out time hassling other people and causing trouble.

The same is applied to all the other aspect of my day to day life , all the little things that add up to me generally going about my life not contributing to making someone elses life ****ty as much as possible.

Would you drink drive if the law was not there?
Would you use the phone while driving if the law was not there?

Also where did your parents get thier morals from and thier parents before them and so on?

stratowide · 28-09-2019 12:45pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

have we? has grace been asked this already? im just curious as to why people believe in god when there seems to be zero evidence of his/her existence.

"If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people"

There is no evidence.You wont get a coherent answer.

Mumbo jumbo is all you will get.
Feelings this faith that ,quotes from works of fiction.

But evidence/proof..not a chance.

eviltwin · 28-09-2019 12:46pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would you drink drive if the law was not there?
Would you use the phone while driving if the law was not there?

Also where did your parents get thier morals from and thier parents before them and so on?

I wouldn't but thats just me, its to do with the individual not their religious beliefs

One of my parents was very religious and the other not so much. Guess which one was abusing us?

Do you believe in God?

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