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Ridiculous #GE2020 promises

245

Comments

  • #52
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I will be voting green.
    I know people were not happy with eamon Ryan’s input into metrolink etc, however he was looking to get more metro for more parts of the city.
    If the money can be got, I can’t argue against this.
    Fact is I don’t trust fffg to deliver any promises they make, not just on pt, but everything else.
    The rest of the parties, maybe with the exception of the social democrats, have no interest in solving the traffic chaos, they just want to promise houses for everyone.


    Same for me, Greens are very flawed here but everyone seems to forget that it was Leo Varadkar who killed Metro North and DART Underground in middle of 2013 when we were actually starting to get a bit of money. Can't see them actually spending €3bn+ (realistically way more) on Metro for example. And FG will probably be better than FF who just want roads.



    I do believe that Greens actually really care, Google "Eamon Ryan Transport Committee" to see that he actually knows what he's talking about. Now the MetroLink stuff was an absolute disgrace and pure parish pump, but as I see it he cares but also wants to keep his seat whereas FG/FF care only about their seat and say "I want better PT" while saying "BusConnects must go". Sad state of affairs but there it is


  • #53
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    I will be voting green, not because I actually like any of them or even really support them, but want to put maximum pressure on whoever gets into government in terms of energy, infrastructure and spacial planning.


  • #54
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Dats me wrote: »
    Same for me, Greens are very flawed here but everyone seems to forget that it was Leo Varadkar who killed Metro North and DART Underground in middle of 2013 when we were actually starting to get a bit of money. Can't see them actually spending €3bn+ (realistically way more) on Metro for example. And FG will probably be better than FF who just want roads.

    In fairness Metrolink is superior to MN, we are better off with it. The biggest risk to Metrolink is a FF being the main party in the next government. They will likely want it reassessed which will delay things at best, send it back to the drawing board at worst. Metrolink and BusConnects are FG projects, all bets are off if they aren't in the next government.


  • #55
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Bar being petty because it's an FG project is there any reason FF would want to disrupt Metrolink. I always thought they were pro infrastructure.


  • #56
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    prunudo wrote: »
    Bar being petty because it's an FG project is there any reason FF would want to disrupt Metrolink. I always thought they were pro infrastructure.

    When the money spent goes into the hands of their supporters, they are.

    So long as the spending doesn’t upset rural voters.


  • #57
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I support green policies in general! But this is the IRISH green party, they have been objecting to denser residential development for a start (how awful that their potential voters might have to look at an apartment block v a house or a 5 floor apartment block v a 3 floor one :rolleyes: How typical. What nimby attitude did they adopt with bus connects, the one that offer massive improvements for 100% of citizens, but a fraction of a percent will lose a tiny bit of the front garden, that most dont use! what a greek tragedy! :rolleyes:

    The crayons with dublin metro! the usual BS!


  • #58
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    When the money spent goes into the hands of their supporters, they are.

    So long as the spending doesn’t upset rural voters.

    That's a large part of it. There's a feeling among a lot of Rural Ireland™ that any money spent on Dublin is effectively theft from the rest of the country. They'd rather the money not be spent than spend it on any Dublin infrastructure.

    The government got away with the Luas, Port Tunnel etc. during the celtic tiger because the rest of the country was getting bypasses, motorways, and some new rail lines too.


  • #59
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I can't see the Soc Dems getting anywhere but I did like what I've seen of their manifesto. It has to be Greens for me, regardless of Eamon's shennanigans I do believe they actually want public transport and cycling infrastructure unlike the other parties, so if the polls are right they could get 10% of the vote, which hopefully might be enough seats to sway some projects to get them going.


  • #60
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    That's a large part of it. There's a feeling among a lot of Rural Ireland™ that any money spent on Dublin is effectively theft from the rest of the country. They'd rather the money not be spent than spend it on any Dublin infrastructure.

    The government got away with the Luas, Port Tunnel etc. during the celtic tiger because the rest of the country was getting bypasses, motorways, and some new rail lines too.

    I love this comedy! How much is pouring out of Dublin to rural Ireland. I dont care what rural ireland think, I know for a FACT that dublins transport is near third world, has "rural ireland" ever taken a flight to the continent? what did they think of the transport in a dublin sized city V the big schmoke? :rolleyes:


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  • #61
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I love this comedy! How much is pouring out of Dublin to rural Ireland. I dont care what rural ireland think, I know for a FACT that dublins transport is near third world, has "rural ireland" ever taken a flight to the continent? what did they think of the transport in a dublin sized city V the big schmoke? :rolleyes:

    They just say it's sh*te and it gives them another reason to hate the city.


  • #62
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,113 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I can't see the Soc Dems getting anywhere but I did like what I've seen of their manifesto. It has to be Greens for me, regardless of Eamon's shennanigans I do believe they actually want public transport and cycling infrastructure unlike the other parties, so if the polls are right they could get 10% of the vote, which hopefully might be enough seats to sway some projects to get them going.

    they're on 15% in Dublin according to today's poll, which could translate into a lot of seats (their national figure is meaningless as they haven't a hope in many rural areas).

    The Greens have their flaws, and Eamon Ryan is prone to the odd brainfart (reintroducing wolves?) but I believe they're sincere and not in it for the glory. I'll give them a chance and hope they learned something from their last stint when FF basically took them to the cleaners.

    The SDs have some good policies but they don't seem have gained any traction - they're fighting for the same soft-left votes as Labour and Greens and the climate crisis is giving the latter a major boost.


  • #63
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I support green policies in general! But this is the IRISH green party, they have been objecting to denser residential development for a start (how awful that their potential voters might have to look at an apartment block v a house or a 5 floor apartment block v a 3 floor one :rolleyes: How typical. What nimby attitude did they adopt with bus connects, the one that offer massive improvements for 100% of citizens, but a fraction of a percent will lose a tiny bit of the front garden, that most dont use! what a greek tragedy! :rolleyes:

    The crayons with dublin metro! the usual BS!

    Which members of the gp have opposed bus connects? I find that hard to believe!


  • #64
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    prunudo wrote: »
    Bar being petty because it's an FG project is there any reason FF would want to disrupt Metrolink. I always thought they were pro infrastructure.

    The next government will be carrying the can for a lot of the important stages of Metrolink: the planning stage (where a lot of vested interests will be throwing mud at the project in the hope of derailing it), procurement (when budget under-estimates could be exposed) and hopefully signing the contract (where any construction problems will be laid at their door). FF could decide to blame any issues on FG, send it back for review and just kick the can.


  • #65
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The next government will be carrying the can for a lot of the important stages of Metrolink: the planning stage (where a lot of vested interests will be throwing mud at the project in the hope of derailing it), procurement (when budget under-estimates could be exposed) and hopefully signing the contract (where any construction problems will be laid at their door). FF could decide to blame any issues on FG, send it back for review and just kick the can.

    After 40 years of can kicking, the thing just needs to be built. If as it looks is a possibility, the Greens get in with either FG or FF, they put the pressure on either party to prioritise public transport. Although I'm skeptical of whether them propping up a government will actually be good for the economy as whole.


  • #66
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I love this comedy! How much is pouring out of Dublin to rural Ireland. I dont care what rural ireland think, I know for a FACT that dublins transport is near third world, has "rural ireland" ever taken a flight to the continent? what did they think of the transport in a dublin sized city V the big schmoke? :rolleyes:

    Urban Ireland isn't just Dublin. I hate this false dichotomy.


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  • #67
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The next government will be carrying the can for a lot of the important stages of Metrolink: the planning stage (where a lot of vested interests will be throwing mud at the project in the hope of derailing it), procurement (when budget under-estimates could be exposed) and hopefully signing the contract (where any construction problems will be laid at their door). FF could decide to blame any issues on FG, send it back for review and just kick the can.

    The planning stage for ML is basically done, the vested interest have in the main been appeased


  • #68
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I just read the Dublin commuter group proposals. You need a few of that lot running for election. Not the morons that are !

    The easiest and most beneficial green movement, is getting people out of cars. Eases congestion and would help environment massively. As transport here is so appalling , there is a lot of low hanging fruit.

    So a roof on Dublin, can't say you are thinking small


  • #69
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    So a roof on Dublin, can't say you are thinking small

    Roof?


  • #70
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,372 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    loyatemu wrote: »
    they're on 15% in Dublin according to today's poll, which could translate into a lot of seats (their national figure is meaningless as they haven't a hope in many rural areas).

    The Greens have their flaws, and Eamon Ryan is prone to the odd brainfart (reintroducing wolves?) but I believe they're sincere and not in it for the glory. I'll give them a chance and hope they learned something from their last stint when FF basically took them to the cleaners.

    The SDs have some good policies but they don't seem have gained any traction - they're fighting for the same soft-left votes as Labour and Greens and the climate crisis is giving the latter a major boost.

    At 15% they are guaranteed a seat in a five-seater, and odds-on for the four-seaters.


  • #71
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Urban Ireland isn't just Dublin. I hate this false dichotomy.

    As far as I can tell, all other cities and towns get lumped in with "Rural Ireland". Even then the various cities claim Dublin gets everything.


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  • #72
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The planning stage for ML is basically done, the vested interest have in the main been appeased

    How is planning basically done, the Railway Order hasn't even been submitted!? The oral hearing will be great craic.


  • #73
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    How is planning basically done, the Railway Order hasn't even been submitted!? The oral hearing will be great craic.

    I can imagine it now. It’ll be Kevin Barry changed into his hurling knicks or took a dump somewhere, so they can’t go ahead without another massive ten year redesign.


  • #74
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    Check out this thread. Seems public transport is a major issue. They need more educated folks on this topic to point them towards specifics.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112318616


  • #75
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, all other cities and towns get lumped in with "Rural Ireland". Even then the various cities claim Dublin gets everything.

    That's the point we need to shift the talking point to urban PT , urban improvements.


  • #76
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    How is planning basically done, the Railway Order hasn't even been submitted!? The oral hearing will be great craic.

    As I said some of the vested interest have been appeased baring GRADA and the apartment block in town


  • #77
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i had a canvasser for the soc dems at the door last night, canvassing for roisin shortall. she seemed happy that someone living so near a proposed metro north station was all in favour of it. i won't say i detected a note of surprise in her voice, but i suspect she got a more negative response about it from some others living nearby.


  • #78
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    As I said some of the vested interest have been appeased baring GRADA and the apartment block in town

    The oral hearing will give a platform to all sorts of crackpots and the media will regurgitate their hyperbolic nonsense, giving it way more credibility than it deserves. The consultations are easy enough as they can say "we are still making adjustments and will take that on board", with the the ABP submission, the objectors can't be fobbed off so the gloves will be off. The fun is only about to start.


  • #79
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i had a canvasser for the soc dems at the door last night, canvassing for roisin shortall. she seemed happy that someone living so near a proposed metro north station was all in favour of it. i won't say i detected a note of surprise in her voice, but i suspect she got a more negative response about it from some others living nearby.
    What kind of morons wouldn’t want a metro station nearby ?


  • #80
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What kind of morons wouldn’t want a metro station nearby ?

    Certain sections of the Irish population that drive everywhere and don’t give a **** about anyone else.


  • #81
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What kind of morons wouldn’t want a metro station nearby ?

    Something something ventilation shaft https://twitter.com/cartb4thehorse/status/1213876837648089094


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  • #82
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What kind of morons wouldn’t want a metro station nearby ?
    define 'nearby' and you have the problem. in that they'd like one within 500m of the house, but not within 200m because of the construction phase.


  • #83
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,531 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What kind of morons wouldn’t want a metro station nearby ?

    I hate saying it, but a key part of the PR campaign for the metro should be letting homeowners know how much the value of their property is likely to increase if located near a metro stop.

    Many residents living nearby drive everywhere and can't even fathom the idea of using public transport. They don't give a **** about public transport. All they care about is the value of their properties.

    We had the same nonsense when the Luas was first proposed. Now residents love it because of increased property values. It's all €€€.


  • #84
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭nc6000


    The DART to Drogheda using battery\electric non-diesel trains so the line north of Malahide does not require electrification.


  • #85
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    nc6000 wrote: »
    The DART to Drogheda using battery\electric non-diesel trains so the line north of Malahide does not require electrification.

    Battery electric is just a stopgap. Electrification is still necessary.


  • #86
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭nc6000


    AAAAAAAAA wrote: »
    Battery electric is just a stopgap. Electrification is still necessary.

    This is what the letter from the NTA says. They say they "are focusing on the acquisition of battery electric and electric rail fleet."

    "A benefit of this fleet type is that it will allow for the introduction of non-diesel vehicles for DART services on the Northern and South East Lines providing DART service from Drogheda to Greystones without the need for the advance electrification of that line north of Malahide."

    Do they plan to use battery electric north of Malahide until the line is electrified?


  • #87
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Something something ventilation shaft https://twitter.com/cartb4thehorse/status/1213876837648089094




    Remember these are the people who back in the day wanted their neighborhood changed from Ballymun to Glasnevin. The worst kind of suburban snobs.


  • #88
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    nc6000 wrote: »
    Do they plan to use battery electric north of Malahide until the line is electrified?

    Yes. They also plan on using battery electric while the Kildare lines are being electrified. It's a stopgap. The following generation of DART trains will be all electric again, as the batteries are going to be incredibly heavy and cause the trains to be slower to accelerate.


  • #89
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    They’ve an issue with a ventilation shaft for an electric powered metro ? What do they think of all the filthy diesels driving past their houses and parked outside their own houses ?!


  • #90
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    They’ve an issue with a ventilation shaft for an electric powered metro ? What do they think of all the filthy diesels driving past their houses and parked outside their own houses ?!

    They don't think. They've got their cars so that's all that matters


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  • #91
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    They don't think. They've got their cars so that's all that matters

    My dad said you need a small dictatorship to get anything done in this country and he’s right ! These people are small minded fools , but The politicians are more to blame. They should have realised that you can’t square a circle , a long time ago !


  • #92
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    FF's proposals to reform BusConnects & Metrolink are some seriously stupid ideas to even think about for any voter living in Dublin right now. Why on earth do FF need to change these projects all over again? Have they not even considered that the electorate have suffered enough already with their constant mistakes? If the original proposals coming from Jarrett Walker was in some way regarded as a failure from Jim O'Callaghan's view on radio during the weekend; In what realistic way do FF think that their way is the better way when it comes to reforming the bus network in Dublin? Do they not realize that if they propose to have another group coming in from another country to reform the bus service in Dublin. They are at risk of having a 'newly proposed' plan that is a whole lot similar to other bus networks in Europe have already for the past number of decades? The major selling point coming from FF is that this new so-called plan is rebranded under a different name but doesn't offer more improvements in it overall as it just offers more of the same stuff as the current iteration of the proposals that are out to the public right now.

    They're doing the exact same thing with Metrolink, however they are not scrapping ML, they will delay the construction date until sometime in 2027 wasting even more time & money with pointless that will be to the detriment of these current voters. E.g. actual members of the public who vote for these parties in the ballot box on polling day. Let ourselves be realistic about FF here. This is just their way of kicking their own can down the road with reforming the bus network when compared to what happened when DU & MN were given 'redesign' proposals under FG & the NTA only a few short years ago. FF are going down a dangerous path of repeating past mistakes all over again when it comes to transport planning in this country without contemplating the backlash from their potential voters who want BusConnects & ML to go ahead as intended. Now having said all of this. I have not heard or read everything in FF's manifesto regarding issues with public transport.

    But some answers to my current questions would give me a good idea of where they are with this issue.

    1) What is FF's stance on Go Ahead providing bus services, under the BMO process here, from Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann?

    2) Are they in favour of getting rid of Go Ahead altogether from the Irish transport sector & hand the routes back to Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann?

    3) Are FF in favour of keeping a cashless bus fare system in place proposed by BusConnects?

    4) What is their stance on a newly proposed flat fare & the free 90 minute transfers between Bus, IE & Luas services provided on the Leap Card?

    5) Are FF committed to introducing more 24 hour bus services provided by Dublin Bus?


  • #93
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    dublinman1990 wrote: »

    1) What is FF's stance on Go Ahead providing bus services, under the BMO process here, from Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann?

    2) Are they in favour of getting rid of Go Ahead altogether from the Irish transport sector & hand the routes back to Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann?
    What difference does their stance make? Tendering is required by EU law. GA seems to have bedded in on most of their routes. What is your issue with them?


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In the event of a certain political party getting into The next government, the whole housing crisis will be completely solved solved within their term of office.

    Cool.


  • #95
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    My dad said you need a small dictatorship to get anything done in this country and he’s right !
    FO'T had an interesting take on this. not quite the dictatorship line, but the underlying issue.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-safety-first-politics-has-had-its-day-1.4145605


  • #96
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/GraemeMcQ/status/1220273518878822400

    Do FF have a policy at all?


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  • #97
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,576 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Tell everyone what they specifically want to hear and hope they never find out what you told someone else?


  • #98
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/GraemeMcQ/status/1220273518878822400

    Do FF have a policy at all?

    No policy and no manifesto yet. They are just trying everyone what they want to hear.


  • #99
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I hate saying it, but a key part of the PR campaign for the metro should be letting homeowners know how much the value of their property is likely to increase if located near a metro stop.

    Many residents living nearby drive everywhere and can't even fathom the idea of using public transport. They don't give a **** about public transport. All they care about is the value of their properties.

    We had the same nonsense when the Luas was first proposed. Now residents love it because of increased property values. It's all €€€.

    Even if you ignore the increase in property values and the person never, ever, ever will use anything but their car to get around, it is still good for them as plenty others in the area or who usually drive through the area will use it and it should reduce traffic for them. But no they'll shout it down because of a few months hassle with construction in the area. So fúcking stupid.


  • #100
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it won't be 'a few months' i suspect, to be fair.


  • #101
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    No policy and no manifesto yet. They are just trying everyone what they want to hear.

    Good luck both building ML and BusConnects and canceling them both


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