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Ridiculous #GE2020 promises

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    #32
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So do roads, it's odd that rarely get mentioned

    Said roads can be used by all transport types (other than heavy rail) and are usually cheaper per km to build. Less fking about if your a truck too.


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    #33
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I came here looking forward to reading about stupid election promises, but I'm leaving feeling very disappointing.


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    #34
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So do roads, it's odd that rarely get mentioned
    Easier to maintain, more people use them and they go where people need to go regardless of how few use them. Rail infrastructure maintenance is IR's biggest cost. Parties don't get to throw out all-encompassing brainfarts without a price tag, some level of scoping and a timeline.


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    #35
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Said roads can be used by all transport types (other than heavy rail) and are usually cheaper per km to build. Less fking about if your a truck too.

    Said rail can be used to transport all types and are cheaper per km in the long term


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    #36
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Easier to maintain, more people use them and they go where people need to go regardless of how few use them. Rail infrastructure maintenance is IT's biggest cost. Parties don't get to throw out all-encompassing brainfarts without a price tag and timeline.

    Roads are more expensive to maintain. Of course more people use them as they've had a massive investment to courage that use.


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    #37
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,158 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    got a leaflet from john lahart ff promising:
    (1)metro sw, basic premise saying its unfair green line was to be upgraded, sw has no infrastructure. good idea but I don't know where hes getting the money from?
    (2) large p+r's on radial routes into Dublin (very good idea, ive said it for ages, they just have to make sure quality pt comes out the city side of the p+r)
    (3) school bus service in his constituency (indeed good idea needs to be done to cut down on traffic)
    (4) luas from Sandyford to Tallaght...................wheres the money for that coming from?
    (5) policing qbc's and bus lanes using cctv, I think he means anpr cameras. this is a no brainer and shane ross is a disgrace for not bringing them in and ruling it out.
    (6) changing Dublin into a national park city, ie more trees, emission free zones etc, investing in cycling etc.

    its all good ideas, but wheres he getting the extra 6 or so billion for metro sw, and the Sandyford Tallaght luas link?
    also he says he wants to push cycling as a solution along with expanding the bus network, but didn't he oppose bus connects......................


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    #38
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tom1ie wrote: »
    got a leaflet from john lahart ff promising:
    (1)metro sw, basic premise saying its unfair green line was to be upgraded, sw has no infrastructure. good idea but I don't know where hes getting the money from?
    (4) luas from Sandyford to Tallaght...................wheres the money for that coming from?


    Money is available from the EIB or negative interest bonds. The issues is these ideas are ridiculous. The Green line upgrade is required because it's reaching maximum capacity and SW metro actually makes this problem worse .

    Sandyford to Tallaght is fine but it can take a number after about 20 other projects.


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    #39
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,158 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Money is available from the EIB or negative interest bonds. The issues is these ideas are ridiculous. The Green line upgrade is required because it's reaching maximum capacity and SW metro actually makes this problem worse .

    Sandyford to Tallaght is fine but it can take a number after about 20 other projects.

    The green line absolutely needs to be upgraded to metro standard and giving into the nimbys was a disgrace. id go as far as to say the gl needs to be upgraded right out to cherrywood to accommodate the massive developments out there.
    However, if money is available from the EIB, we should build metro sw. A spur off the main metro line will half the frequency on that line, but two different areas of the city will be getting serviced.
    Also if your running trains at 90sec intervals that means that trains will be pushed out to every 3 mins on the main line and the spur, that's hardly a disgrace, especially if you have driverless hfv, that are 90ms long!
    If the moneys available it should be done.


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    #40
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Qrt


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Don't think o Donovan has a clue tbh, iirc she opposes bus connects also.

    She was elected as an independent, then switched to FF pretty much straight away. That’s just sneaky considering she probably wouldn’t have won with the FF banner.

    Besides, she’s still going on about Orlagh Roundabout! God love the poor people of Knocklyon not having an extra lane.


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    #41
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tom1ie wrote: »
    The green line absolutely needs to be upgraded to metro standard and giving into the nimbys was a disgrace. id go as far as to say the gl needs to be upgraded right out to cherrywood to accommodate the massive developments out there.
    However, if money is available from the EIB, we should build metro sw. A spur off the main metro line will half the frequency on that line, but two different areas of the city will be getting serviced.
    Also if your running trains at 90sec intervals that means that trains will be pushed out to every 3 mins on the main line and the spur, that's hardly a disgrace, especially if you have driverless hfv, that are 90ms long!
    If the moneys available it should be done.

    I believe the they will be 60m but i'm ready to be corrected . If we a building a metro in the SW it should be stand alone meeting ML around OCS . It could then continue out towards Coolock and interchange a Malahide.


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    #42
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    tom1ie wrote: »
    (2) large p+r's on radial routes into Dublin (very good idea, ive said it for ages, they just have to make sure quality pt comes out the city side of the p+r)

    And what do people get onto after parking?


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    #43
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,158 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    And what do people get onto after parking?

    Hey look it’s not my message it’s John laharts, but it has potential, once there are multiple different bus routes leaving at high frequencies from the p+r. These busses would need to have qbc’s to get those busses where they are going and on to further interchange points.
    They will be commuter busses that have few stops, designed to stop at transport interchange hubs and final destinations only.
    In the case of the n4 heavy rail could be brought into the scenario also, if they can get a move on building our bespoke train sets.


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    #44
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Hey look it’s not my message it’s John laharts, but it has potential, once there are multiple different bus routes leaving at high frequencies from the p+r. These busses would need to have qbc’s to get those busses where they are going and on to further interchange points.
    They will be commuter busses that have few stops, designed to stop at transport interchange hubs and final destinations only.
    In the case of the n4 heavy rail could be brought into the scenario also, if they can get a move on building our bespoke train sets.

    I never meant to imply that it was your message but it seems pointless to propose P&R facilities without a grand plan for them to be integrated into a proper PT network.


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    #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Roads are more expensive to maintain. Of course more people use them as they've had a massive investment to courage that use.
    So what exactly are you looking for, bearing in mind that very little of the IR network makes a profit?


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    #46
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    is_that_so wrote: »
    So what exactly are you looking for, bearing in mind that very little of the IR network makes a profit?

    PT isn't meant to make a profit . Most roads make 0 profit too. In fact most roads are just money sinks. I'd agree with the call for each 1 euro spent on road 2 should go to PT.


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    #47
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What way is the public mood blowing on bus connects ?! That will tell you. I was coming towards terenure earlier , there is a massive pinch point caused where there is a gap in the bus corridor. Only a fault short section, and all it would take to address is removing a meter or so from the ridiculously long front gardens on this short stretch!

    But they are so populist here and unwilling to do anything, that you know what ? I am actually surprised Eamon Ryan and all of these gob****es running for election , haven’t proposed a harrier bus , when it reaches congestion, or a gap in the qbc, it just lifts off vertically , then flies forward until landing back then when it hits the next stretch of qbc ...

    Greens support BusConnects - and public mood seems more positive now from what I can see. What do you guys think based on conversations at work etc?


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    #48
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    I am amazed how many people I meet are voting for the Greens. If we had a proper Green party here and not this bunch I would be positive for public transport but I am not.


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    #49
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    I am amazed how many people I meet are voting for the Greens. If we had a proper Green party here and not this bunch I would be positive for public transport but I am not.

    In what way are they not proper? Who do you think will deliver on PT so?


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    #50
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,158 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I will be voting green.
    I know people were not happy with eamon Ryan’s input into metrolink etc, however he was looking to get more metro for more parts of the city.
    If the money can be got, I can’t argue against this.
    Fact is I don’t trust fffg to deliver any promises they make, not just on pt, but everything else.
    The rest of the parties, maybe with the exception of the social democrats, have no interest in solving the traffic chaos, they just want to promise houses for everyone.


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    #51
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,158 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Dats me wrote: »
    Greens support BusConnects - and public mood seems more positive now from what I can see. What do you guys think based on conversations at work etc?

    Yep, seems like a large green vote alright, not sure what there stance is on health and justice though. I’ll have to do my research.


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    #52
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I will be voting green.
    I know people were not happy with eamon Ryan’s input into metrolink etc, however he was looking to get more metro for more parts of the city.
    If the money can be got, I can’t argue against this.
    Fact is I don’t trust fffg to deliver any promises they make, not just on pt, but everything else.
    The rest of the parties, maybe with the exception of the social democrats, have no interest in solving the traffic chaos, they just want to promise houses for everyone.


    Same for me, Greens are very flawed here but everyone seems to forget that it was Leo Varadkar who killed Metro North and DART Underground in middle of 2013 when we were actually starting to get a bit of money. Can't see them actually spending €3bn+ (realistically way more) on Metro for example. And FG will probably be better than FF who just want roads.



    I do believe that Greens actually really care, Google "Eamon Ryan Transport Committee" to see that he actually knows what he's talking about. Now the MetroLink stuff was an absolute disgrace and pure parish pump, but as I see it he cares but also wants to keep his seat whereas FG/FF care only about their seat and say "I want better PT" while saying "BusConnects must go". Sad state of affairs but there it is


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    #53
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    I will be voting green, not because I actually like any of them or even really support them, but want to put maximum pressure on whoever gets into government in terms of energy, infrastructure and spacial planning.


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    #54
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,760 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Dats me wrote: »
    Same for me, Greens are very flawed here but everyone seems to forget that it was Leo Varadkar who killed Metro North and DART Underground in middle of 2013 when we were actually starting to get a bit of money. Can't see them actually spending €3bn+ (realistically way more) on Metro for example. And FG will probably be better than FF who just want roads.

    In fairness Metrolink is superior to MN, we are better off with it. The biggest risk to Metrolink is a FF being the main party in the next government. They will likely want it reassessed which will delay things at best, send it back to the drawing board at worst. Metrolink and BusConnects are FG projects, all bets are off if they aren't in the next government.


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    #55
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Bar being petty because it's an FG project is there any reason FF would want to disrupt Metrolink. I always thought they were pro infrastructure.


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    #56
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    prunudo wrote: »
    Bar being petty because it's an FG project is there any reason FF would want to disrupt Metrolink. I always thought they were pro infrastructure.

    When the money spent goes into the hands of their supporters, they are.

    So long as the spending doesn’t upset rural voters.


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    #57
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I support green policies in general! But this is the IRISH green party, they have been objecting to denser residential development for a start (how awful that their potential voters might have to look at an apartment block v a house or a 5 floor apartment block v a 3 floor one :rolleyes: How typical. What nimby attitude did they adopt with bus connects, the one that offer massive improvements for 100% of citizens, but a fraction of a percent will lose a tiny bit of the front garden, that most dont use! what a greek tragedy! :rolleyes:

    The crayons with dublin metro! the usual BS!


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    #58
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    When the money spent goes into the hands of their supporters, they are.

    So long as the spending doesn’t upset rural voters.

    That's a large part of it. There's a feeling among a lot of Rural Ireland™ that any money spent on Dublin is effectively theft from the rest of the country. They'd rather the money not be spent than spend it on any Dublin infrastructure.

    The government got away with the Luas, Port Tunnel etc. during the celtic tiger because the rest of the country was getting bypasses, motorways, and some new rail lines too.


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    #59
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I can't see the Soc Dems getting anywhere but I did like what I've seen of their manifesto. It has to be Greens for me, regardless of Eamon's shennanigans I do believe they actually want public transport and cycling infrastructure unlike the other parties, so if the polls are right they could get 10% of the vote, which hopefully might be enough seats to sway some projects to get them going.


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    #60
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    That's a large part of it. There's a feeling among a lot of Rural Ireland™ that any money spent on Dublin is effectively theft from the rest of the country. They'd rather the money not be spent than spend it on any Dublin infrastructure.

    The government got away with the Luas, Port Tunnel etc. during the celtic tiger because the rest of the country was getting bypasses, motorways, and some new rail lines too.

    I love this comedy! How much is pouring out of Dublin to rural Ireland. I dont care what rural ireland think, I know for a FACT that dublins transport is near third world, has "rural ireland" ever taken a flight to the continent? what did they think of the transport in a dublin sized city V the big schmoke? :rolleyes:


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    #61
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I love this comedy! How much is pouring out of Dublin to rural Ireland. I dont care what rural ireland think, I know for a FACT that dublins transport is near third world, has "rural ireland" ever taken a flight to the continent? what did they think of the transport in a dublin sized city V the big schmoke? :rolleyes:

    They just say it's sh*te and it gives them another reason to hate the city.


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