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Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

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  • Options
    #4802
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Biafranlivemat wrote: »
    And back in the 80's the RTE budget had to be a fraction of what it is today.
    Amazing.

    And just think what RTÉ was dealing with in the late 80s early 90s a recession, a cap on advertising, no increase in licence fee (one of the lowest in Europe) and all out strike from workers, introduction of competition.

    Yet in terms of Children's content.

    The Den
    Bosco/The Morgets
    2 Saturday morning kids programmes (though largely dropped in the mid-1990s)
    The Beat Box/2TV
    Jo Maxi (and yes echo island)
    Blackboard Jungle

    Now I know times have changed but even the amount that they are doing in terms of Animation and more expensive content is much less.


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    #4803
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Elmo wrote: »
    And just think what RTÉ was dealing with in the late 80s early 90s a recession, a cap on advertising, no increase in licence fee (one of the lowest in Europe) and all out strike from workers, introduction of competition.

    Yet in terms of Children's content.

    The Den
    Bosco/The Morgets
    2 Saturday morning kids programmes (though largely dropped in the mid-1990s)
    The Beat Box/2TV
    Jo Maxi (and yes echo island)
    Blackboard Jungle

    Now I know times have changed but even the amount that they are doing in terms of Animation and more expensive content is much less.

    S@ttitude, Twotube, and a few others emerged (and were silently killed off) in the 2000s. I think once the internet got into everyone's homes, RTE were slow to compete, and have been playing catchup since then. (And failing it too).

    There was less animation, but the quality of it was closer to Disney levels than it is now. (I mean, Don Bluth Studios used to be here... and he was a former Disney guy).

    Now, the quality is poor, the animation is poor, and it takes YEARS for funding to be gathered, and years more to pay it back. (I went to a filmmaker's discussion on this-it was sad hearing both the love of filmmaking, along with the pain of funding, that went into it... and how you're paying it back for years after).

    Ireland is getting more, recognition, for their film/ animation work... but honestly, standards have dropped. There's far better work being done on Netflix, in tv productions, than there is in Irish animated/ film productions.


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    #4804
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    There was less animation, but the quality of it was closer to Disney levels than it is now. (I mean, Don Bluth Studios used to be here... and he was a former Disney guy).

    Now, the quality is poor, the animation is poor, and it takes YEARS for funding to be gathered, and years more to pay it back. (I went to a filmmaker's discussion on this-it was sad hearing both the love of filmmaking, along with the pain of funding, that went into it... and how you're paying it back for years after).

    Ireland is getting more, recognition, for their film/ animation work... but honestly, standards have dropped. There's far better work being done on Netflix, in tv productions, than there is in Irish animated/ film productions.

    more of an issue with animators who last year over took both TV and film production as the biggest employer (or at least the biggest spender) in that industry in Ireland.
    S@ttitude, Twotube, and a few others emerged (and were silently killed off) in the 2000s. I think once the internet got into everyone's homes, RTE were slow to compete, and have been playing catchup since then. (And failing it too).

    S@ttitude I was trying to think of the name of that show, from Cork right?

    Twotube axed during the overhaul of RTÉ YPP Dept, in 2016 when they promised they were investing in independent producers and not cutting funding. and then cut funding!


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    #4805
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Elmo wrote: »
    more of an issue with animators who last year over took both TV and film production as the biggest employer (or at least the biggest spender) in that industry in Ireland.

    Yup... but once other companies offer to do stuff for cheaper, as is happening now, whilst offering better quality, then the industry here will collapse.

    It can take 7 years to get funding for a production (you often hear of the passion projects) and many industries are moving away from certain types of animation, because competition is leading to cheaper, but poorer quality productions.

    I followed up on a number of animation productions, done here in Ireland, that snagged a major license deal... the product they delivered was not good, and ended up being dumped on youtube. It was originally meant to air in Canada, the US, and later the UK.
    S@ttitude I was trying to think of the name of that show, from Cork right?

    Twotube axed during the overhaul of RTÉ YPP Dept, in 2016 when they promised they were investing in independent producers and not cutting funding. and then cut funding!

    Yup, 2tube/ Twotube. It's where RTE trained in a lot of new talent (new at the time) like Sinead Kennedy, and Brian Ormond, to name a few.

    Some went into production, documentary making etc, others moved on to presenting other shows, and some mightily f**ked up their careers (Brian Ormond, for one).


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    #4806
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    I followed up on a number of animation productions, done here in Ireland, that snagged a major license deal... the product they delivered was not good, and ended up being dumped on youtube. It was originally meant to air in Canada, the US, and later the UK.


    Would be interested in seeing these, did they get paid?


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    #4807
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Elmo wrote: »
    Would be interested in seeing these, did they get paid?

    Yup, but the costs were minimal, compared to the output of the product. Ananimation production can cost about 600-700 000 euros. For a major license, this can be a pretty small loss, despite being major money for a studio.
    (In comparison, US productions can cost about 2.5 million euros per episode. But they are also 22 minutes long, compared to the short animation Ireland produces).


    If it's s**t,you just dump it on the internet. If its good, you contact the company and maybe ask em 'okay, how much would it cost to do another 13 or 26 episodes?'

    Anyways, this was a major announcement about 2 years ago.

    http://www.iftn.ie/news/TelecomsNews/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4292082&tpl=archnews&force=1

    And it sounded like a major coup for them, for real.

    Unfortunately... the final product was rather.... not good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEgYDW5SUM4

    A planned season 2 was axed before it aired. The animation is even more limited than a Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon. Like someone booked a team on fiverr to do it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yabba-Dabba_Dinosaurs#:~:text=The%20series%20was%20intended%20to,year%20before%20the%20series%20aired.


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    #4808
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Ah fer GOD'S SAKE...

    Just seen the ad for the new 'RTE chat show'... Summer at Seven...

    Not a single layoff at RTE, but they're happy to peddle out more shows to keep people paid...


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    #4809
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    Turned over to Des Island discs. Heard him on about gender recognition and stereotypes.

    Click

    Is there any end to it?


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    #4810
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,116 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    sligojoek wrote: »
    Turned over to Des Island discs. Heard him on about gender recognition and stereotypes.

    Click

    Is there any end to it?

    No Joe, and if you had any sense there would be no start to it.

    Now have a cup of Ovaltine and wait for auld turnip head to come on.

    Should calm you down.


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    #4811
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Just hearing on The Last Word that Dee Forbes is to appear in front of some committee to claim they have seen a 35% reduction in income and an increase in costs.

    Figures suggest they need €100 - €125 million .

    It really is a basket case. As a boss she has failed miserably. If it was the private sector she'd have been shown the door ages ago.

    And they will still continue to pay out crazy salaries to not so talented presenters because "They are worth it".

    Will these huge losses be discussed on Live Line I wonder?


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    #4812
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    I'm afraid I can't see the present government laying much of a hand on them given that they'll want them onside given the hard Road that definitely lies ahead. The Covid bill will have to be paid somehow. Montrose will continue living beyond their means on our buck going forward


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    #4813
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    RTE is accountable to no one, the can do what the like as long as the play ball with government the know the government cheque is always waiting for them.
    Like before this covid 19 Richard Bruton was on the 6.1 News every night telling us how we were going to be leaders in climate change and after that Greta the great got her daily slot, always pushing the government agenda.

    Did any Minister ask why the whole sports department were kept on full pay for the last 3 months and no sport, not likely.


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    #4814
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    mgn wrote: »
    RTE is accountable to no one, the can do what the like as long as the play ball with government the know the government cheque is always waiting for them.
    Like before this covid 19 Richard Bruton was on the 6.1 News every night telling us how we were going to be leaders in climate change and after that Greta the great got her daily slot, always pushing the government agenda.

    Did any Minister ask why the whole sports department were kept on full pay for the last 3 months and no sport, not likely.

    RTÉ are accountable to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland


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    #4815
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Elmo wrote: »
    RTÉ are accountable to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland

    Well if the are, there not doing their job either,


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    #4816
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Elmo wrote: »
    RTÉ are accountable to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland


    Thats similar to saying that the Banks where accountable to Central Bank prior to the crash!!


    The Broadcasting Authority has been asleep at the wheel for many many years


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    #4817
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Thats similar to saying that the Banks where accountable to Central Bank prior to the crash!!


    The Broadcasting Authority has been asleep at the wheel for many many years

    True but just pointing out that RTÉ are accountable to them much like the other broadcasters.


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    #4818
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Elmo wrote: »
    True but just pointing out that RTÉ are accountable to them much like the other broadcasters.


    Both are accountable to the Government who at some stage needs to step in and put a handle on it


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    #4819
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Both are accountable to the Government who at some stage needs to step in and put a handle on it

    The government can't be seen to tell RTÉ what to do that is why RTÉ have a board established by the Oireachtas and why the Department has the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland.

    The Oireachatas Committee needs to have a frank and intelligent discussion with RTÉ, TG4 and Screen Ireland.

    The Minister and her department needs to have a frank and intelligent discussion with the BAI.

    From this the BAI with RTÉ and TG4 need to examine and outline their roles in line with a public service.

    While Screen Ireland may need to have oversight from the Arts Council.


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    #4820
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Elmo wrote: »
    The government can't be seen to tell RTÉ what to do that is why RTÉ have a board established by the Oireachtas and why the Department has the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland.

    The Oireachatas Committee needs to have a frank and intelligent discussion with RTÉ, TG4 and Screen Ireland.

    The Minister and her department needs to have a frank and intelligent discussion with the BAI.

    From this the BAI with RTÉ and TG4 need to examine and outline their roles in line with a public service.

    While Screen Ireland may need to have oversight from the Arts Council.


    The government can just say we are not giving you 100 odd million this year.



    They can talk to whoever they want to after that but wasting tax payer money should be a non starting position. If Dee Forbes has an issues then she should do her f**king job


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    #4821
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    mgn wrote: »
    Well if the are, there not doing their job either,
    They are. The BAI frequently take RTE on about mistakes or complaints from the public and they do the same to the other TV and radio stations. You just dont hear about it from the BAI.


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    #4822
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    I'm afraid I can't see the present government laying much of a hand on them given that they'll want them onside given the hard Road that definitely lies ahead. The Covid bill will have to be paid somehow. Montrose will continue living beyond their means on our buck going forward


    This. As long as they're willing to preach Austerity for others, there'll be no Austerity for them. Just look after the last crash.


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    #4823
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Both are accountable to the Government who at some stage needs to step in and put a handle on it

    Many will say that RTE should be autonomous and be allowed to run themselves, but I disagree, as its the Government and taxpayers who are funding them and who will continually have to bail them out when they run up losses.

    As an example, the Government sets the amount of money our consultants can earn, and these people are often life savers with vast medical training and expertise, but they can have no say as to how much Joe Duffy or Ray D'Arcy can earn?

    Why not?


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    #4824
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The government shouldn't be seen to seem dictate to RTÉ what they can and cannot report on, this is why the Oireachtas Committee should hold that balance, along with the BAI.

    Posters are right about the BAI it is toothless largely siding with RTÉ, Virgin Media and the IBI when it comes to complaints from the audience.
    The BAI frequently take RTE on about mistakes or complaints from the public and they do the same to the other TV and radio stations. You just dont hear about it from the BAI.

    They must transparently show where they have taken on RTÉ, for example they did not say one word about RTÉ's report into the Orchestras, because according to them its outside their remit, sorry folks but when RTÉ over see the Orchestras you oversee RTÉ's orchestras and you should be making an informed statement, if not leading the independent report into them.


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    #4825
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Many will say that RTE should be autonomous and be allowed to run themselves, but I disagree, as its the Government and taxpayers who are funding them and who will continually have to bail them out when they run up losses.

    As an example, the Government sets the amount of money our consultants can earn, and these people are often life savers with vast medical training and expertise, but they can have no say as to how much Joe Duffy or Ray D'Arcy can earn?

    Why not?


    If RTE is to be run autonomous then they need to stop running looking for more money everytime they f**k up.



    I dont see any attempt by RTE to reduce cost during the crisis. Everyone could tell advertisement would be down etc. But they have done nothing. They should have put in cost cutting measure, instead they continue as is and will hand a big bill to governe,ent


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    #4826
    DenMan
    Registered Users Posts: 7,961 ✭✭✭DenMan


    The second week in a row now Joe Duffy has had people on after being conned and scammed from the Dublin Mint Office (whose headquarters are in the UK). Today he even said it's time for RTE and TG4 to stop taking advertising money from them due to their deceptive tactics used to target elderly and otherwise vulnerable individuals. I hope Dee Forbes was listening in. Maybe it's a big advertising earner for RTE.


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    #4827
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If RTE is to be run autonomous then they need to stop running looking for more money everytime they f**k up.

    I dont see any attempt by RTE to reduce cost during the crisis. Everyone could tell advertisement would be down etc. But they have done nothing. They should have put in cost cutting measure, instead they continue as is and will hand a big bill to governe,ent


    RTÉ pretty much stopped funding programme making from independents, almost of all other programmes had been produce well in advance with the exception of TLLS, Covid Nation, Today & Comic Relief. TLLS could have taken a break earlier while Covid Nation was unnecessary, as normal Today is now of the air, while comic relief look like more of Misery = Entertainment.

    Like any company their core services are kept up, I would argue that the lack of reform in News cost RTÉ in relation to Covid.

    IMO their decision on Home School Hub was good, but only came about because of COVID.

    How did I get to become the defender of RTÉ, we really need to discuss who's defending and who's attacking. :)


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    #4828
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    DenMan wrote: »
    The second week in a row now Joe Duffy has had people on after being conned and scammed from the Dublin Mint Office (whose headquarters are in the UK). Today he even said it's time for RTE and TG4 to stop taking advertising money from them due to their deceptive tactics used to target elderly and otherwise vulnerable individuals. I hope Dee Forbes was listening in. Maybe it's a big advertising earner for RTE.

    The BAI should have been looking at this.


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    #4829
    Nevin Parsnipp
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Nevin Parsnipp


    Lookit ! Can we quit looking at the small stuff ?

    Before the Station starts looking for more money from the taxpayer consider this .

    The taoiseach of our country who is in a 24hr/365 job with huge responsibility earns approx €275K a year.

    A couple of presenters in RTE...Darcy and Duffy who present an hour long program in the afternoon time slot..and are frequently absent are trousering just North of €450K per annum.

    There are others ...many others on similiar wedges...and this org is constantly whinging for more money ?

    Not sustainable I say ...not remotely sustainable ....

    We have a 15% non compliance with the license fee ...waaay too much ....who is addressing that in a meaningful way and avoiding the soft option of increasing the license fee for compliant subscribers .

    Who has the nutts to sort this out ...?


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    #4830
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Nevin Parsnipp wrote: »
    We have a 15% non compliance with the license fee ...waaay too much ....who is addressing that in a meaningful way and avoiding the soft option of increasing the license fee for compliant subscribers.


    The compliance issue is easily solved by making RTE subscriber only. The technology exists to do this and has been successfully implemented by other organisations competing in the market. I strongly object to being forced to pay for bad service I stopped consuming RTE over a decade ago, feedback from my parents who still use the service (inertia and force of habit) indicates the quality of that organisations output has not improved in that period and that the output is mostly repeats and repeats of repeats.

    All proposals on the table thus far amount to mandatory taxation where the consumer cannot vote with their money. Today the choice is get rid of the telly if you do not want to pay the tax and I am happy with this arrangement and have used the money saved to take up cycling.

    Note that a person taxed at the 50% rate must earn €320 per annum to pay the current RTE tax. Unless you are an RTE shareholder the issue of individual earnings and expenses does not concern you. Based on the rate you pay in taxation and your earnings per hour you can do your own calculations on how many hours you need to work to pay for RTE service and if the number of hours of RTE content you consume justifies this.

    If you believe that RTE should provide a "public service" and you want a say in the remunerations of RTE "stars" then you should be pushing for RTE to be converted to a club like the GAA or the UK national trust, this way you can vote on it and many other subjects as a member of the organisation.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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    #4831
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,066 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Pa ElGrande wrote: »
    Today the choice is get rid of the telly if you do not want to pay the tax and I am happy with this arrangement and have used the money saved to take up cycling.

    I have done this and i don't regret it. Anything I want to watch I can stream through another medium anyway - Netflix, Nowtv, Youtube etc.

    However, I am still included in the 15% as an 'evader' - as it suits RTE to presume that there couldn't possibly be anyone in the country without a TV and needing their services, therefore they must pay.


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