Property Market 2019

Bob24 · 17-01-2019 11:43am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I think its more a minor echo- thankfully, many people have been saved from themselves this time round- between CB income rules and the general exemptions. Also- while we may be building in atrocious locations- we don't have a runaway building sector- as we had the last time round. We are a silly silly people though.

Agree as a country we have been less reckless than the last time around. Having said that I also think the consequences of the last crisis still haven’t been fully resolved. So in spite of being more (but probably still not enough) carefull this time around, I am not completely sure a new crisis would be milder ... some people from the last crisis who thought they had finally managed to put their head above water or were about to do so might be pushed down again and joined by a new cohort.

And that’s not to mention the global economic and political context which is probably more worrying than it was before the previous crisis.

beaz2018 · 17-01-2019 12:11pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Agree as a country we have been less reckless than the last time around. Having said that I also think the consequences of the last crisis still haven’t been fully resolved. So in spite of being more (but probably still not enough) carefull this time around, I am not completely sure a new crisis would be milder ... some people from the last crisis who thought they had finally managed to put their head above water or were about to do so might be pushed down again and joined by a new cohort.

And that’s not too mention the global economic and political context which is probably more worrying than it was before the previous crisis.

So what are people supposed to do? keep renting on the premise that there will be cheap and plentiful houses in a few years because of a recession? What about if they lose their job/take a cut in pay as part of that recession?

Pussyhands · 17-01-2019 1:10pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The article is to do with Chinese money leaving the US. Which is undoubtedly being directed from the top as part of the ongoing trade war. Really don't see the relevance to the Irish market

Did you even read the article?

5.5 billion taken from the US last year, with 12 billion of WORLDWIDE assets taken out this year.

Pussyhands · 17-01-2019 1:16pm

beaz2018 wrote: »

So what are people supposed to do? keep renting on the premise that there will be cheap and plentiful houses in a few years because of a recession? What about if they lose their job/take a cut in pay as part of that recession?

It's more likely to end up better than getting an inflated mortgage for 35 years, then potentially losing your job and then house...yeah.

If people are able to buy now, that means they need a deposit. That deposit is still there in a recession/job loss. In a once in a lifetime recession there were still 86/100 people in work.

Your deposit increases in buying power, your repayments are lower because you have a smaller loan.

Bob24 · 17-01-2019 1:22pm

beaz2018 wrote: »

So what are people supposed to do? keep renting on the premise that there will be cheap and plentiful houses in a few years because of a recession? What about if they lose their job/take a cut in pay as part of that recession?

My point was more about describing the situation than telling people what they should do or not.

Having said if someone was asking for advice i would say that while buying isn’t necessarily a bad idea, one should only do it with a good deposit (minimum 20% of the house prices, ideally 30% or more) and make sure they could still manage their budget with let’s say a 3% interest rise combined to the loss of one income in the household.

IMO buying with an exception or even at the bottom of the current rules (especially the 10% LTV for part of an FTB’s mortgage) is too risky.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 17-01-2019 1:42pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

Did you even read the article?

5.5 billion taken from the US last year, with 12 billion of WORLDWIDE assets taken out this year.

It actually says they expect 12 billion in assets to be taken this year. It also doesn't mention whether or not the assets are commercial or residential. So I stand by question. What exactly does this have to do with the Irish property market

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 17-01-2019 1:55pm

Bob24 wrote: »

My point was more about describing the situation than telling people what they should do or not.

Having said if someone was asking for advice i would say that while buying isn’t necessarily a bad idea, one should only do it with a good deposit (minimum 20% of the house prices, ideally 30% or more) and make sure they could still manage their budget with let’s say a 3% interest rise combined to the loss of one income in the household.

IMO buying with an exception or even at the bottom of the current rules (especially the 10% LTV for part of an FTB’s mortgage) is too risky.

I wouldn't say there's many that could afford a 3 % increase coupled with the loss of a salary. You have to assume (depending on your line of work) that your salary is going to generally increase as your career progresses. So a mortgage that is a stretch this year may not be in 5 years time. That's what happened to us in any case. I do take your point that it's a gamble though

Moonjet · 17-01-2019 2:32pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's more likely to end up better than getting an inflated mortgage for 35 years, then potentially losing your job and then house...yeah.

If people are able to buy now, that means they need a deposit. That deposit is still there in a recession/job loss. In a once in a lifetime recession there were still 86/100 people in work.

Your deposit increases in buying power, your repayments are lower because you have a smaller loan.

What you're suggesting is getting involved in price speculation, which is a dangerous game especially when it comes to your primary residence. You're assuming another crash in property prices here is a certainty - it' s not.

Nobody knows if property prices will crash or boom or remain stagnant or if there will be a recession this year or in 10 years or if Brexit will go ahead or if there will be mass unemployment or continued full employment.

People have to live somewhere and the only alternative to buying is renting.

Over the long-term, throughout history both here and abroad, buying property has always worked out more favorably than renting.

As the usual mantra goes, if you find a property you like in the area you're happy to live in long term, can afford the deposit and monthly repayments (stress tested +2%) then it's a good time to buy. Renting and waiting for the next crash could backfire.

Villa05 · 17-01-2019 3:00pm

awec wrote:

It's not all repeating itself. The situation now is entirely different to 2007. The reasons for Ireland property boom back then were entirely different.

Many of the symptoms of the last boom/bust exist today, some of those symptom are considerably worse than in the early noughties

A big contributer last time was the low interest rates in a booming economy. This time round they are even lower

Bob24 · 17-01-2019 3:31pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I wouldn't say there's many that could afford a 3 % increase coupled with the loss of a salary. You have to assume (depending on your line of work) that your salary is going to generally increase as your career progresses. So a mortgage that is a stretch this year may not be in 5 years time. That's what happened to us in any case. I do take your point that it's a gamble though

Yeah the OP was asking for what people should do and as I said this is just the advice I would give if someone was asking me, to be able to in good concscience say I’m not giving advice to someone I know which I think might put them in a bad situation. Then the general public do what they like and many people might give a lot less restrictive advice to their friends (in any case I think it is interesting to look at it from the perspective of: would I tell that to a friend in good conscience?)

Just to give the rational behind it though: I am taking into account that the likelihood of an economic recession and a property price drop is a lot higher in the coming years than it was let’s say 3-5 years ago. The high deposit is to limit chances of negative equity in case of a price drop so the people don’t get stuck, as well as reducing the share of monthly repayments which is interests (and thus to limit the impact of a potential interest rate hike, which helps a lot to satisfy my second condition). And the the budget safety limit is to make sure it is very unlikely for people to be stuck and unable to pay as during a recession and when property prices are falling it would be much more problematic then during a phase of economic growth and property prices inflation.

I do hear your argument about salary increases though and it is valid, but I would have seen it as more relevant a couple of years ago at the beginning of the upwards economic cycle we are currently in, as I think everyone agrees it is very likely to end in the next year or two and the question is more when will it end and how bad/long the subsequent downwards cycle will be. So I would have given people slightly different advice 5 years ago.

Beheretomorrow · 19-01-2019 4:54pm

For those that were at open houses today. How did it go?

My observations are:
- 3 of 5 houses viewed were back on the market having fallen through late last year. All in the 700k - 850k bracket
- One was a new build that hasn't sold since first been listed in Oct
- Number of viewers was reasonable overall, one house at the top of the range was very busy. The others were average to slow... defined by number of times I had to stop on the stairway to let ppl by and general busy-ness....by no means in anyway scientific a method!

There was an interesting article in the independent today about how expensive doer upers are post sale agreed and how sales are falling through as a result.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 19-01-2019 10:25pm

Beheretomorrow wrote: »

For those that were at open houses today. How did it go?

My observations are:
- 3 of 5 houses viewed were back on the market having fallen through late last year. All in the 700k - 850k bracket
- One was a new build that hasn't sold since first been listed in Oct
- Number of viewers was reasonable overall, one house at the top of the range was very busy. The others were average to slow... defined by number of times I had to stop on the stairway to let ppl by and general busy-ness....by no means in anyway scientific a method!

There was an interesting article in the independent today about how expensive doer upers are post sale agreed and how sales are falling through as a result.

Did you make any offers / was there any feedback from agent regarding movement in price ?

Zenify · 19-01-2019 10:45pm

Beheretomorrow wrote: »

There was an interesting article in the independent today about how expensive doer upers are post sale agreed and how sales are falling through as a result.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/how-much-is-your-house-worth/end-of-the-doerupper-rising-cost-of-renovations-cripples-demand-for-ageing-homes-37727313.html

"For example in Dublin 12, prices of bungalows have fallen from €540,000 last year to €460,000 today."

Conor Gallagher, of Gallagher Quigley, added: "At least a dozen times last year I encountered a situation where someone had purchased a property in need of refurbishment and had their architect go in for planning, only to discover by the time that the planning came through, the cost of the work was being priced at up to 50pc more than estimated."

"Meantime, where new homes were constructed, adjoining second hand home values suffered more than in the past."

That last point is really interesting. I wonder what these mega sites like Cherrywood will do to the well established areas around it.

Pussyhands · 19-01-2019 11:00pm

When is Cherrywood coming on stream and how many houses is there?

kippy · 19-01-2019 11:19pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Yeah the OP was asking for what people should do and as I said this is just the advice I would give if someone was asking me, to be able to in good concscience say I’m not giving advice to someone I know which I think might put them in a bad situation. Then the general public do what they like and many people might give a lot less restrictive advice to their friends (in any case I think it is interesting to look at it from the perspective of: would I tell that to a friend in good conscience?)

Just to give the rational behind it though: I am taking into account that the likelihood of an economic recession and a property price drop is a lot higher in the coming years than it was let’s say 3-5 years ago. The high deposit is to limit chances of negative equity in case of a price drop so the people don’t get stuck, as well as reducing the share of monthly repayments which is interests (and thus to limit the impact of a potential interest rate hike, which helps a lot to satisfy my second condition). And the the budget safety limit is to make sure it is very unlikely for people to be stuck and unable to pay as during a recession and when property prices are falling it would be much more problematic then during a phase of economic growth and property prices inflation.

I do hear your argument about salary increases though and it is valid, but I would have seen it as more relevant a couple of years ago at the beginning of the upwards economic cycle we are currently in, as I think everyone agrees it is very likely to end in the next year or two and the question is more when will it end and how bad/long the subsequent downwards cycle will be. So I would have given people slightly different advice 5 years ago.

I suppose there are a number of angles to look at it from but if you are concerned that at some point you might lose your primary income stream, the best place to be when and if that happens is actually with a mortgage and a roof over your head - whether this is right or wrong is irrelevant I think.

Personally I think if the house is in the right location and is a decent size for your future needs I think the option to buy, if it is there, with your "current" income is the best option.

Zenify · 20-01-2019 7:29am

Pussyhands wrote: »

When is Cherrywood coming on stream and how many houses is there?

4,300 new homes, most of them are to rent. They start coming on the market next year.

mcbert · 20-01-2019 10:54am

Zenify wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/how-much-is-your-house-worth/end-of-the-doerupper-rising-cost-of-renovations-cripples-demand-for-ageing-homes-37727313.html

Conor Gallagher, of Gallagher Quigley, added: "At least a dozen times last year I encountered a situation where someone had purchased a property in need of refurbishment and had their architect go in for planning, only to discover by the time that the planning came through, the cost of the work was being priced at up to 50pc more than estimated."

I wonder is this a Dublin or country wide phenomenon? Builders upping their quotes for smaller jobs, because of demand? I'm wondering about Galway city specifically...

Zenify · 20-01-2019 12:25pm

mcbert wrote: »

I wonder is this a Dublin or country wide phenomenon? Builders upping their quotes for smaller jobs, because of demand? I'm wondering about Galway city specifically...

I'd say anything happening in Dublin will be closely followed by Galway.

I think builders have upped their price a bit but I'd say people have always underestimated the price of renovations. Reason for the sales falling through could be that they are finding it harder to get the extra cash from the banks, with them running out of exemptions...?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 20-01-2019 12:31pm

Well people need to buy something. If building prices are going up, new builds are obviously also going to get more expensive. The figure in the indo was strange anyway I thought, they quoted bungalows in one part of Dublin falling by 100 k plus. If prices were falling that fast across the board for 2nd hand homes there'd be more than the indo talking about it.

Their own "how much is your house worth" piece shows price growth in nearly all areas anyway which contradicts their previous point.

The indo is a rag at the best of times to be fair but it seems like they have an agenda to push new houses here. Cairn etc must pay for a lot of advertising space.....

kippy · 20-01-2019 12:31pm

mcbert wrote: »

I wonder is this a Dublin or country wide phenomenon? Builders upping their quotes for smaller jobs, because of demand? I'm wondering about Galway city specifically...

It's difficult to get good trades people (indeed it has been throughout the past decade).
I can see it even more difficult if you want a relatively small job done as there are bigger and more economical jobs out there for trades people now.
What you tend to see happening is people pricing these jobs extremely high to avoid getting them. If they get them, it's a bonus.

dudara · 20-01-2019 12:34pm

The doer-upper part of the market is interesting. It’s hard to get money from the bank as part of the mortgage, which will deter people. Also the extra time & effort required will deter people.

As a result, the houses are less likely to sell, potentially will sit there longer, possibly getting worse. What ultimately will happen to these houses?

We did buy a doer-upper last year. It’s perfectly liveable in as is, but it does need work to boost energy efficiency, rewiring, new rads etc. I want to extend, so it makes sense to wait until we’re ready and do most of it at once. That will hopefully be within the next 2 years.

dubrov · 20-01-2019 1:23pm

dudara wrote:

As a result, the houses are less likely to sell, potentially will sit there longer, possibly getting worse. What ultimately will happen to these houses?

The price drops until it gets to a point where it becomes economical for people to buy them and do them up.

dudara · 20-01-2019 1:28pm

It will be economical for people with cash or access to funds for the renovation.

For a lot of average people, they will need the bank to give the funds for the renovation in addition to the mortgage, and unless the banks start making that easier, I can’t see it changing much.

mkdon · 20-01-2019 1:57pm

Zenify wrote: »

4,300 new homes, most of them are to rent. They start coming on the market next year.

any expectation for these cherrywood homes to have any impact on property market? Any similar ones coming on the market this year?

GAA Beo · 20-01-2019 8:50pm

Zenify wrote: »

4,300 new homes, most of them are to rent. They start coming on the market next year.

Doesn't sound like the makings of any sort of community if it is at all rental. No owner occupiers? Not going to help families looking for affordable housing. But still it should slightly ease the pressure on the rental sector hopefully.

Bob24 · 20-01-2019 10:06pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

Doesn't sound like the makings of any sort of community if it is at all rental. No owner occupiers? Not going to help families looking for affordable housing. But still it should slightly ease the pressure on the rental sector hopefully.

Yeah, I guess they will fill-up with young professionals sharing home and working in Cherrywood/Leopardstown/Sandyford.

mkdon · 20-01-2019 11:44pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Yeah, I guess they will fill-up with young professionals sharing home and working in Cherrywood/Leopardstown/Sandyford.

anyone know the percentage that will be rentals and percentage of owner occupiers?

hmmm · 21-01-2019 12:36am

The Cherrywood idea just looks like bad planning to me. These are going to be full of twenty and thirty somethings, all of them commuting, and the place will be a ghost town during the day. They'll all then be getting on the LUAS, and trying to get into jobs in the city.

These apartments should be built in the city centre where people of that age want to live, not in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs. The suburbs should have a mix of owner occupiers who want houses with gardens, and the only apartment blocks should be spacious apartments for elderly downsizers or families.

21-01-2019 1:02am

hmmm wrote: »

These apartments should be built in the city centre where people of that age want to live, not in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs. The suburbs should have a mix of owner occupiers who want houses with gardens, and the only apartment blocks should be spacious apartments for elderly downsizers or families.

Great point........ But when I lived within walking distance of the city centre (Pheonix park area) about 2-3 years ago they were building semi-d's beside me :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:......:rolleyes:

GAA Beo · 21-01-2019 1:39am

hmmm wrote: »

The Cherrywood idea just looks like bad planning to me. These are going to be full of twenty and thirty somethings, all of them commuting, and the place will be a ghost town during the day. They'll all then be getting on the LUAS, and trying to get into jobs in the city.

These apartments should be built in the city centre where people of that age want to live, not in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs. The suburbs should have a mix of owner occupiers who want houses with gardens, and the only apartment blocks should be spacious apartments for elderly downsizers or families.

There doesn't seem to be any pubs around there either. It sounds quite grim to me, but maybe as a short term thing it wouldn't be too bad if the rent was reasonable (which I really doubt it will be). I imagine it was probably very difficult to build this type of development in any of the other more settled communities nearby. For starters far smaller developments have been scuppered by NIMBY planning objections.

Bob24 · 21-01-2019 9:07am

hmmm wrote: »

The Cherrywood idea just looks like bad planning to me. These are going to be full of twenty and thirty somethings, all of them commuting, and the place will be a ghost town during the day. They'll all then be getting on the LUAS, and trying to get into jobs in the city.

These apartments should be built in the city centre where people of that age want to live, not in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs. The suburbs should have a mix of owner occupiers who want houses with gardens, and the only apartment blocks should be spacious apartments for elderly downsizers or families.

Pretty high risk of becoming a ghetto in the medium to long term as well.

It’s all fine when the economy is good, the apartments are new and attractive, and there are a lot of professional jobs within easy reach. But in a few decades when the apartment show their age, with a high concentration of housing and no local life/services, what happens if good employment prospects in the area also become grim? We just need to look at continental European cities who did similar things in the 50s and 60s to see why the problems might be.

Zenify · 21-01-2019 9:48am

Cherrywood is going to have a lot of office space too. I'm assuming a lot of people will be living and working in the same area. Just like Sandyford. Sandyford is like a ghost town on weekends but Cherrywood is going to have lots of parks and shops which may keep people around after work.

Hines is a pretty big developer who know what they're doing and I think it is the developer who are renting the properties they build. I think worst case scenario it becomes like Sandyford on the weekends, I dont see such a nice place turning into a "ghetto". It has some great amenities around like dun laoghaire and the mountains and people will always want to live there. Ps I dont work for Cherrywood

Cuddlesworth · 21-01-2019 10:40am

hmmm wrote: »

The Cherrywood idea just looks like bad planning to me. These are going to be full of twenty and thirty somethings, all of them commuting, and the place will be a ghost town during the day. They'll all then be getting on the LUAS, and trying to get into jobs in the city.

These apartments should be built in the city centre where people of that age want to live, not in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs. The suburbs should have a mix of owner occupiers who want houses with gardens, and the only apartment blocks should be spacious apartments for elderly downsizers or families.

Not that I disagree with everything, but Cherrywood, Carrickmines and Sandyford are all or will be large centres of dense employment. And that section of the Luas is under utilised.

CalRobert · 21-01-2019 12:01pm

dudara wrote: »

It will be economical for people with cash or access to funds for the renovation.

For a lot of average people, they will need the bank to give the funds for the renovation in addition to the mortgage, and unless the banks start making that easier, I can’t see it changing much.

For me, at least, I was sale agreed with AIP etc. on a 2 bed doer-uppoer with a side garden in Pimlico a bit over a year ago. I clearly didn't understand how finance worked because I figured I could live in it as-is and do it up over time.

The surveyor's report came back saying it needed 80 grand in work and the bank said I needed to show I had an extra 80 grand lying around in cash (I didn't). I was really frustrated given how much of the work in the report was subjective - they claimed it needed 5000 euro for 5 new internal doors (honestly the existing ones were fine...), lots of essentially aesthetic improvements, etc.

The sale fell through. Still frustrated by that.

Bob24 · 21-01-2019 12:05pm

Zenify wrote: »

Cherrywood is going to have a lot of office space too. I'm assuming a lot of people will be living and working in the same area. Just like Sandyford. Sandyford is like a ghost town on weekends but Cherrywood is going to have lots of parks and shops which may keep people around after work.

Hines is a pretty big developer who know what they're doing and I think it is the developer who are renting the properties they build. I think worst case scenario it becomes like Sandyford on the weekends, I dont see such a nice place turning into a "ghetto". It has some great amenities around like dun laoghaire and the mountains and people will always want to live there. Ps I dont work for Cherrywood

I get what you’re saying, but I while I agree with you if we are talking at a 10 or 20 years timeline, I would point at the fact that the exact same things you mention could have been said from the 50s to the 70s about then new Parisian suburbs which are now infamous for their crime level, high unemployment, and being racial/religious ghettos.

When those were built they were the young worker’s paradise for those who couldn’t afford to live in Paris itself as alongside cheaper rents people liked the comfort of new apartments, good rail links to the city, and the local environment which at the time was not bad at all (playgrounds/parks, growing local economic activity, etc); and many of the now most infamous suburbs where on the rail route from central Paris to the then new CDG international airport with even more economic prospect because of this (nowadays they schedule more and more direct trains from the airport to Paris which don’t stop in those suburbs partly because international travelers feel unsafe and are getting mugged on the trains which serve local stations).

Ps: I am not involved in any anti-Cherrywood campaign either and I am not saying it will necessarily end up that way, but I think it is worth keeping those points in mind. Hopefully I am proven wrong though.

Cuddlesworth · 21-01-2019 3:08pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Ps: I am not involved in any anti-Cherrywood campaign either and I am not saying it will necessarily end up that way, but I think it is worth keeping those points in mind. Hopefully I am proven wrong though.

Looking at Ireland's history, large clumps of social housing are the most likely to become "bad" areas. And if you wanted to break that down further, large clusters of poor people(in a relative sense) are prone to larger amounts of criminality in that specific area and its surroundings.

Cherrywood is located in a very upmarket area and for now, large areas of rentals in the city only attract either AirB&B or high paid office staff.

awec · 21-01-2019 7:15pm

Zenify wrote: »

Cherrywood is going to have a lot of office space too. I'm assuming a lot of people will be living and working in the same area. Just like Sandyford. Sandyford is like a ghost town on weekends but Cherrywood is going to have lots of parks and shops which may keep people around after work.

Hines is a pretty big developer who know what they're doing and I think it is the developer who are renting the properties they build. I think worst case scenario it becomes like Sandyford on the weekends, I dont see such a nice place turning into a "ghetto". It has some great amenities around like dun laoghaire and the mountains and people will always want to live there. Ps I dont work for Cherrywood

It'll be worse than Sandyford.

All things considered Sandyford is actually an excellent location.

awec · 21-01-2019 7:16pm

Zenify wrote: »

Cherrywood is going to have a lot of office space too. I'm assuming a lot of people will be living and working in the same area. Just like Sandyford. Sandyford is like a ghost town on weekends but Cherrywood is going to have lots of parks and shops which may keep people around after work.

Hines is a pretty big developer who know what they're doing and I think it is the developer who are renting the properties they build. I think worst case scenario it becomes like Sandyford on the weekends, I dont see such a nice place turning into a "ghetto". It has some great amenities around like dun laoghaire and the mountains and people will always want to live there. Ps I dont work for Cherrywood

It'll be worse than Sandyford.

All things considered Sandyford is actually an excellent location with more going for it than Cherrywood.

Zenify · 21-01-2019 9:10pm

awec wrote: »

]

It'll be worse than Sandyford.

All things considered Sandyford is actually an excellent location with more going for it than Cherrywood.

What is Cherrywood lacking compared to Sandyford?

I'm really shocked about this. I never expected people to be saying negative things about Cherrywood. There's over 4,000 new homes right on a luas stop and the m50, near the coast and dart, lots of employment with offices and some already established like Dell.

This is what we need to solve our housing crises thousands of homes in strategic locations with lots of parks built around the houses. Transport and employment at the doorstep.

awec · 21-01-2019 9:16pm

Zenify wrote: »

What is Cherrywood lacking compared to Sandyford?

I'm really shocked about this. I never expected people to be saying negative things about Cherrywood. There's over 4,000 new homes right on a luas stop and the m50, near the coast and dart, lots of employment with offices and some already established like Dell.

This is what we need to solve our housing crises thousands of homes in strategic locations with lots of parks built around the houses. Transport and employment at the doorstep.

Well for one thing it's much closer to town and places like Dundrum.

I'm not saying anything negative about it, it's much needed housing, but I'd disagree that it's better than Sandyford. Sandyford has a bit of an unfair reputation.

hmmm · 21-01-2019 9:34pm

Zenify wrote: »

What is Cherrywood lacking compared to Sandyford?

I'm really shocked about this. I never expected people to be saying negative things about Cherrywood. There's over 4,000 new homes right on a luas stop and the m50, near the coast and dart, lots of employment with offices and some already established like Dell.

This is what we need to solve our housing crises thousands of homes in strategic locations with lots of parks built around the houses. Transport and employment at the doorstep.

It's a "strategic location" only because the planners approved vast numbers of apartments to be built there when the real demand is for apartments in the city. Unfortunately due to a combination of NIMBYism and weak politicians, we can't build sufficient density in the city centre, and we end up with a Cherrywood. The LUAS out that direction is a light rail system which does not have unlimited capacity.

The building themselves and the surrounding area might be very nice, but that misses the two big points - those renting would probably prefer to rent closer to town, and it is not going to lead to much of a community spirit when there is so many transient renters in a concentrated area.

Sandyford has great transport links, and many nice apartments, but where are the bars, restaurants and coffee shops to really bring a bit of life to the place? It's a place people come from, not go to.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 21-01-2019 9:35pm

I lived in sandyford for a bit. Found it very soulless. Was absolutely fantastic for getting in and out to town but we didn't really do much in sandyford itself.

Zenify · 21-01-2019 9:56pm

http://cherrywoodretail.ie

It's getting everything you need to live. Accomodation, work, schools, food, shops, entertainment.

I heard that the planning authority was being very clever and making sure the parks are built first too, as years ago builders got planning with the parks and built the apartments first and never built the parks.

Someone mentioned that it's not as close to Dundrum, I think this will be a new place that people will want to be near and dundrum or town will be irrelevant to people living here. Only a few minutes extra on luas anyway compared to Sandyford.

Bob24 · 21-01-2019 10:32pm

Zenify wrote: »

Only a few minutes extra on luas anyway compared to Sandyford.

Having worked in Cherrywood for years (before the LUAS and after it stared), it is honestly a bit of a stretch to say “only of few minutes extra”. For a starter not all trams go to cherrywood so the average wait time is longer (that might change but currently it is the case). And the with my experience of doing it every day the commute from Cherrywood to Stephen’s Green feels like an eternity compared to starting the journey from Sandyford. It has a lot to do with the fact that the track is for the most part straight and with a balanced number of stops up to Sandyford, but if you look at it on a map it is taking a lot more (sometimes sharp) turns and probably trying to cover too many places which slows it down a lot. My experience is that while the LUAS is the more reliable option, once you are on it a bus on the N11 corridor is actually likely to bring you from Cherrywood to Dublin City center faster than a tram.

Also as someone mentioned the LUAS is already over capacity at rush hours without those new homes being delivered. I know there is a plan to upgrade part of the route (not down to cherrywood) to a metro system but if and when that will happen is hard to tell, so that could be problematic as well.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 21-01-2019 11:11pm

How long does it take to get into town on the Luas from Cherrywood ?

Brego888 · 21-01-2019 11:21pm

Zenify wrote: »

Someone mentioned that it's not as close to Dundrum, I think this will be a new place that people will want to be near and dundrum or town will be irrelevant to people living here.

That's a massive stretch

Zenify · 21-01-2019 11:47pm

Rex Disgusting Tariff wrote: »

How long does it take to get into town on the Luas from Cherrywood ?

40min just from a quick Google. I've actually never gone past sandyford on the luas.

mkdon · 22-01-2019 12:13am

any idea how much the rent will be for the average unit or is that yet tbc?

Bob24 · 22-01-2019 9:28am

Rex Disgusting Tariff wrote: »

How long does it take to get into town on the Luas from Cherrywood ?

42 mins to Bride’s Glen (which I think is the closest stop to the new development) vs 24 mins to Sandyford, so almost double. Also on 2 trams out of 3 go past Sandyford. Good thing is that at least if someone is commuting from there towards town in the morning they’ll likely get a seat. But most travellers getting on further on the route will be packed like sardines, if they manage to get on the tram.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 22-01-2019 10:23am

Bob24 wrote: »

42 mins from Stephen’s Green to Bride’s Glen (which I think is the closest stop to the new development) vs 24 mins to Sandyford, so almost double. Also only 2 trams out of 3 go past Sandyford so taking the increased average wait time into account the total journey time is a bit more than doubled. Good thing is that at least if someone is commuting from there towards town in the morning they’ll likely get a seat (although very little chance on the way back). But most travellers getting on further on the route will be packed like sardines, if they manage to get on the tram.

That's some difference, given how close they are by car :eek:

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