Going for a full Ps1 Collection

Star Lord · 06-08-2013 6:24pm

Kealy1994 wrote: »

The way you guys are going on you would swear you hated retro gaming.

If we should stop playing all the n64 shooters because they dont hold up
then we should stop playing pac man on arcade/atari/nes because there
is a hd version on Xbox live arcade.

We should stop playing racing games because the newer mario karts,
wipeout,gran turismos look and play better.

We should stop playing snes/ps1 rpgs because the newer ones
are fully voice acted and use highly detailed 3d models and they are HD.

That's the sort of impression I'm getting.

In fairness, I think you're reading a lot into what's being said that is not actually what is being said at all. The majority of the best old retro games are still amazingly good. A lot of them are better than a lot of the modern remakes/HD versions/reimaginings. Some great games unfortunately are difficult to play now because of the limitations of the hardware that were easier to overlook back in the day because we'd not experienced anything better! Am I saying anyone should not play Goldeneye, or that it's stopped being a great game? No, it's still one of my favourite games of all time. It's just not as much fun as it used to be because it's now quite painful to play.
But sit me down with an N64 and it's still one of the first carts I'd reach for!

Myrddin · 06-08-2013 6:44pm

I think if Games are really ever to be viewed as art, you have to look at the inherent 'art' behind the finished product. By focusing on the technical limitations of old games/systems, & judging them by todays standards, you're kinda bypassing the product itself.

To use another art form analogy, it's like saying "Well, I find Total Recall a real pain to watch these days because the special effects are so old by todays standards." You'd be missing the point, & missing out on the actual art {the story told through the medium of film}. Some people do that, but film fans won't.

Games are the same, why rate them based on what limitations were present at the time? Why not look past the limitations, & look at the product? Was Goldeneye a good game for its story? It's immersion? If so, then fair enough, if not, fair enough...at least you're judging the game, not what makes it a chore to play decades after it came out.

When popular music came along, was traditional music no longer acceptable? Was classical music no longer acceptable because newer instruments came along? No, they became separate niches, like the way retro gaming has gone. If you're not looking at games as art, then you're looking at games as products, which they are too of course.

Retr0gamer · 06-08-2013 7:24pm

Games and films are different though. I mean if something like Goldeneye is held back by technical limitations and it doesn't play well because of them it's just not right to pretend that these limitations don't exist when they do.

In terms of films as well it's not a great analogy. If the effects don't hold up then they don't but does it spoil the film? More than likely not. When it's something like Goldeneye and it's framerate which actively does affect your enjoyment of the game (you can say it doesn't but you are lying to yourself. Take it from a game developer, lower framerate severely hampers play control) then is it right to ignore that as well.

I'm all for objective criticism. Goldeneye doesn't hold up and it's not objective criticism to say otherwise, you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement if you say it doesn't. However it's also not objective criticism to also mention and celebrate just how important a game it was.

As for dismissing all old FPS games, it's true a lot don't hold up but stuff like Blood and System Shock are still amazing experiences while there's absolutely nothing like Doom and how it plays like a cross between Gauntlet and Robotron in 3D. Aged graphics won't take away you enjoyment of a game but a bad framerate will, there's no denying that. Yes new games have a problem with framerate being locked to 30FPS and with V-Sync. It's not ideal but it is a consistent framerate that drops below 30 rarely. Goldeneye on the other hand never reaches it's 30 FPS limit (well sometimes. Walk right up to a wall and stare at it and the controls and framerate become so much smoother). In fact the framerate hovers around 15-20 and is inconsistent which really affects gameplay. Set off an explosion and that framerate dips to 5 or below.

Retr0gamer · 06-08-2013 7:32pm

@Enternow, you'll notice that stuff that does age well is usually something that works within the limitations of the medium. Films like Starship Troopers look have great looking CGI because they didn't use it often and complimented it with models and using amputees for the stunts. They knew they couldn't pull the whole lot off with CGI so they didn't bother (except with that scene of Rico on the Bug). Lots of other films then have really ropey CGI.

It's kind of the same with games, make a game that works within the limitations of the system and it will never age.

Then again where would we be if games didn't push the boundaries. Stuff like Starfox, Goldeneye, Elite. GTA 3 should never been attempted on they systems they were but by doing it they pushed the industry forward and made gaming a richer place.

So it's best to look at things both ways. Yes Goldeneye is barely playable but it's worth playing and analysing as a history lesson because if it didn't happen we would have been playing bad Doom clones for a lot longer and stuff like Thief that are directly influenced would never have happened. Even though Goldeneye had really ropey stealth mechanics that liked to break it predated MGS and Thief.

Kealy1994 · 06-08-2013 10:27pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Games and films are different though. I mean if something like Goldeneye is held back by technical limitations and it doesn't play well because of them it's just not right to pretend that these limitations don't exist when they do.

In terms of films as well it's not a great analogy. If the effects don't hold up then they don't but does it spoil the film? More than likely not. When it's something like Goldeneye and it's framerate which actively does affect your enjoyment of the game (you can say it doesn't but you are lying to yourself. Take it from a game developer, lower framerate severely hampers play control) then is it right to ignore that as well.

I'm all for objective criticism. Goldeneye doesn't hold up and it's not objective criticism to say otherwise, you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement if you say it doesn't. However it's also not objective criticism to also mention and celebrate just how important a game it was.

As for dismissing all old FPS games, it's true a lot don't hold up but stuff like Blood and System Shock are still amazing experiences while there's absolutely nothing like Doom and how it plays like a cross between Gauntlet and Robotron in 3D. Aged graphics won't take away you enjoyment of a game but a bad framerate will, there's no denying that. Yes new games have a problem with framerate being locked to 30FPS and with V-Sync. It's not ideal but it is a consistent framerate that drops below 30 rarely. Goldeneye on the other hand never reaches it's 30 FPS limit (well sometimes. Walk right up to a wall and stare at it and the controls and framerate become so much smoother). In fact the framerate hovers around 15-20 and is inconsistent which really affects gameplay. Set off an explosion and that framerate dips to 5 or below.

Enternow is right.
Man thats like saying don't watch any of those black and white
sci fi classics because there is no color,bad audio and it has no
special effects just tricks and animatronics.

Thats the reason why animatronics is dying out in movies.

With that mindset your better off throwing all your retro games
in the bin because there outdated and not fun.

You Study game development but so do I that dosen't make either of us
a game developer and I don't see where that comes in or is relevent.Unless you made a game for a console that pushed its limitations.

Retr0gamer · 06-08-2013 11:14pm

I've made a few demos, made a game in a gamejam competition and currently finishing up an iOS app and handing it over to the client at the end of the month. I'm the lead programmer on the game aspect of it. You can deny it all you like but framerate severely impacts on playabilit, it's a fact. Sure just read some digital foundry articles, it always comes up. I ran into it myself. Had to use Stencyl for my first game demo. I was quite proud of it but stencyl being a slow piece of **** slowed my game down to 25 fps so it wasn't nearly as smooth as I'd hoped for.

And no, as I said in my post the film analogy doesn't hold true. You can't just compare games with film, it's a strawman argument and doesn't hold up anyway. You're completely miss understanding the point I'm trying to raise. I also think Enternow is agreeing with me as well but I'll let him reply to that.

Kealy1994 · 06-08-2013 11:49pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've made a few demos, made a game in a gamejam competition and currently finishing up an iOS app and handing it over to the client at the end of the month. I'm the lead programmer on the game aspect of it. You can deny it all you like but framerate severely impacts on playabilit, it's a fact. Sure just read some digital foundry articles, it always comes up. I ran into it myself. Had to use Stencyl for my first game demo. I was quite proud of it but stencyl being a slow piece of **** slowed my game down to 25 fps so it wasn't nearly as smooth as I'd hoped for.

And no, as I said in my post the film analogy doesn't hold true. You can't just compare games with film, it's a strawman argument and doesn't hold up anyway. You're completely miss understanding the point I'm trying to raise. I also think Enternow is agreeing with me as well but I'll let him reply to that.

I have worked on many games in various game jams,just because you make a game in 24 hours dosen't make you a game developer.
Unless your doing it for a living or have completed a full retail game.
An ios app isn't a game and demos ? you mean prototypes I think
anyone who studys game development builds dozens of these.

Stencyl,Game salad etc are programmes for people new to game development so they can create easy games and there 2d programmes.
It practically builds the game for you,
You would want to build a high poly shooter game that puts restraint
on your PC using Unity,Source,Unreal or for some people their own engine.

If you do then ill take your point into consideration about you being an expert in 3d frame rate.

Back then games didn't run at 30 fps.They were blocky and had bad
camera angles at the time and they are still fun today to play even if they
dont live up to your standards of today's technology.

All games from all previous generations weren't as technically
advanced as the generation that came after it.Like HD is
a new thing to video games.64 bit was new after the 8.16 and 32 bit generations.Just because newer consoles run at a higher frame rate now dosent mean they weren't playable at a lower frame rate back in the day.

What is wrong with you is your spoiled with today's technology that
the older games arent up to your standards.There like pennys runners versus Name brand shoes they arent the latest and greatest but they do the job which is bring you entertainment involving video games in my analogy.I don't care about frame rate and that's why I don't care about
the small difference in quality between NTSC and PAL games.

I have played PC games on a low powered pc and had low frame rate
and enjoyed the gameplay because I dont need to have things to render
lightning fast for them to be playable.

I respect your opinion if you don't like Golden eye but I never had this game as a kid and I only picked it up ta few years ago and I find it fun even tho it may not be as impressive as half life.

You will reason with yourself to make any excuse to put down something and that's close minded.This is why this is all I have to say on this matter
and ill update this thread with some ps1 games I picked up very soon.

Retr0gamer · 07-08-2013 12:11am

You don't have to be an expert in 3D games to know that framerate affects playability in a big way. If you had a modded console with a 50/60 Hz switch you can see for yourself that even the 10 FPS difference between PAL and NTSC makes a massive difference to playability. Again you can bury your head in the sand about this but it's not going to make you right.

As for being spoiled by new technology. no I haven't. Framerates have gotten worse in console games. 30FPS is standard now and then when you shove on v-sync, triple buffering and even deferred rendering engines on top you get even more control latency. It's like a lot of developers have gone backwards in this regard.

I'd consider myself quite open minded in my opinions about games. I make up my own mind about them and don't let reviewers make up my mind for me. I used to get serious flak a few years ago if I dare mention Goldeneye having not aged well. Now I find most gamers have the same opinion and even many publications have changed their tune. I'm not saying you can't have fun with goldeneye but with those technical difficulties severely hampering playability it's a real chore to play.

Kealy1994 · 07-08-2013 12:16am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You don't have to be an expert in 3D games to know that framerate affects playability in a big way. If you had a modded console with a 50/60 Hz switch you can see for yourself that even the 10 FPS difference between PAL and NTSC makes a massive difference to playability. Again you can bury your head in the sand about this but it's not going to make you right.

As for being spoiled by new technology. no I haven't. Framerates have gotten worse in console games. 30FPS is standard now and then when you shove on v-sync, triple buffering and even deferred rendering engines on top you get even more control latency. It's like a lot of developers have gone backwards in this regard.

I'd consider myself quite open minded in my opinions about games. I make up my own mind about them and don't let reviewers make up my mind for me. I used to get serious flak a few years ago if I dare mention Goldeneye having not aged well. Now I find most gamers have the same opinion and even many publications have changed their tune. I'm not saying you can't have fun with goldeneye but with those technical difficulties severely hampering playability it's a real chore to play.

You were kind of giving me the impression your opinion was the only opinion but now were sort of on the same page but I'm over it so lets digress.

Kealy1994 · 07-08-2013 12:22am

Finally got My destructo 2,its one the rarest ps1 games
but theres quite a few sealed on ebay due to a factory find in germany recently
and they are not very expensive due to people not really knowing about it.

The deal feel through with Hercs adventure because its a very hard to find game
even online sometimes but its extremely hard to find game if your looking for the UK/Irish version variant
in particular with the english text on the back.Your lucky to see one show up on ebay
every 6 months to a year.Similar to rule of rose just rarer.
The guy I was getting mine from told me it was a UK variant but end up being
Italian or French so thats why I haven't got that yet.

(I used a stick image because I cant find my camera to take a picture)

Retr0gamer · 07-08-2013 12:26am

Could be worth checking the regional variants of Amazon and sending a begging letter to some of the sellers to ship to Ireland for rarer games. Sometimes you get them cheaper or can find something hard to find on them. Sellers can be a bit cagey, had a hard time getting a copy of rule of rose from french sellers and never did get it (got the US version in the end) but it's worth a shot and it's another place to look.

Kealy1994 · 07-08-2013 12:31am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Could be worth checking the regional variants of Amazon and sending a begging letter to some of the sellers to ship to Ireland for rarer games. Sometimes you get them cheaper or can find something hard to find on them. Sellers can be a bit cagey, had a hard time getting a copy of rule of rose from french sellers and never did get it (got the US version in the end) but it's worth a shot and it's another place to look.

What I have been doing is finding unsold completed listings on ebay
and finding unsold copy's and messaging those sellers.
Also I have have been on some australian video game collecting forums.

I still cant find blues clues blues big musical..its easily the hardest
to find game on the system.
Flameron a guy I met on here recently we went game hunting He said there was a copy in the second hand store he worked in and he would trade me for Digimon world.But it was sold and most likely to some kid who would most likely end up destroying it..

Kealy1994 · 07-08-2013 12:35am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Could be worth checking the regional variants of Amazon and sending a begging letter to some of the sellers to ship to Ireland for rarer games. Sometimes you get them cheaper or can find something hard to find on them. Sellers can be a bit cagey, had a hard time getting a copy of rule of rose from french sellers and never did get it (got the US version in the end) but it's worth a shot and it's another place to look.

Rule of Rose is easy to get on ebay if you want a french/Italian etc variant
But I'm waiting for the UK Variant.

Theres only a few variants I want.
The first print cardboard box tekken and Mortal Kombat games.

Grand theft auto Australian exclusive Double feature

Hercs adventure UK variant.

Some of the big boxes for the NTSC games.

Flaregon · 10-08-2013 6:03pm

just remember an epic memory from my childhood, thought it was DraculaX I always wanted, but no, must buy a mega drive + this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6F8BK69x6o

Retr0gamer · 10-08-2013 6:13pm

It's a fantastic game, one of the best castlevania games but unfortunately gets ignored. Soundtrack is by they girl that made the SotN soundtrack.

However whatever you do don't get the European version. They censored out most of the gore in it. the first stage is rather boring because they removed a lot of incidental details that make the stage stand out.

Flaregon · 10-08-2013 6:19pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's a fantastic game, one of the best castlevania games but unfortunately gets ignored. Soundtrack is by they girl that made the SotN soundtrack.

However whatever you do don't get the European version. They censored out most of the gore in it. the first stage is rather boring because they removed a lot of incidental details that make the stage stand out.

Played it when I was 4, only reason I mixed it up with the snes lol.
this was my first castlevaina game and one of the first games I remember playing, so i can live with out a little blood if its the only 1 I can find.

o1s1n · 10-08-2013 6:37pm

The PAL Megadrive version is more expensive anyway, it keeps going up and up in price for some reason.

Retr0gamer · 10-08-2013 7:42pm

I always found the first level so drag and dull. I was shocked to see how much they removed out of it when I eventually played an emulated japanese version of the game. They left it all in the US version as well. It really ruins the feel of the whole first stage and a few subsequent sections after it.

o1s1n · 10-08-2013 7:58pm

They removed the body from the first screen and then changed all of the red blood to a greeny brown. Don't think there's anything other than that though?

I just did a side by side of both running at the same time as a matter of interest - the gore is pixel for pixel the same, it's just a colour swap.

If I remember correctly, Eric's spear thingy doesn't impale him when he dies either.

Actually here we go, nice little side by side comparison with screens illustrating the above.

http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=3300

Edit - above is a comparison of Bloodlines/New Generation - I've never actually played Vampire Killer. Must give it a blast to see if there's anything different again.

Retr0gamer · 10-08-2013 8:44pm

Well there's a few other slight cuts later on but I always felt the first stage was very bland and barren compared to the rest in the game. When I played the japanese version I understood why because they took out those little incidental details. Sure it it doesn't affect gameplay at all but the level just feels so empty without those hanging bodies and I love the way they swing and react if you hit them. It seems small but that kind of attention to detail can add a lot to the game and that first level just feels a lot busier.

There's really no point getting the EU version considering it's inferior and more expensive.

OwaynOTT · 10-08-2013 10:13pm

What if you had of got it super cheap? Can I keep mine?
I much prefer it to the snes castlevania.

Edit: jeez it really has gone up in price lately. It's getting really difficult to get good priced games.

CiDeRmAn · 10-08-2013 10:22pm

Kealy1994 wrote: »

Grand theft auto Australian exclusive Double feature

The what now?

Is that the collectors edition?
It has GTA, GTA2 and GTA:London, because thats common enough

o1s1n · 11-08-2013 1:36am

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Edit: jeez it really has gone up in price lately. It's getting really difficult to get good priced games.

Its an absolute pain in the hole.Thats one game I kept putting off getting. Last time I checked to buy it, you could pick it up for about €30-40 complete.

Game prices just keep going up.

Augmerson · 11-08-2013 10:21pm

I saw this thread and all I can think of is the time when Gamestop on Henry street had about 300 copies of Rayman and Tom Clancy Rainbox Six for ps1 ha

Agueroooo · 12-08-2013 1:38pm

Augmerson wrote: »

I saw this thread and all I can think of is the time when Gamestop on Henry street had about 300 copies of Rayman and Tom Clancy Rainbox Six for ps1 ha

Rainbow 6 ahh the memories.I loved that game and spent way too many hours on it.Going to head over to you tube now for some nostalgia:).

Star Lord · 12-08-2013 2:55pm

Loved Rainbow Six too, had it initially on the N64, and later on PC. Great game!
Do any of the more recent ones play like that at all? Where you could plot out the route of entry and any check points for the different teams?

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2013 3:39pm

I heard the console ports of it were pretty rancid compared to the PC original. The older games are so tactical and sim like I can't see them working on a console.

Unfortunately the series has become your standard cover shooter since Lockdown, which fans have christened 'dumbdown'. I did love Rainbow Six Vegas but not so much the second game.

o1s1n · 12-08-2013 3:45pm

Only version I ever had was the first on the PC. Absolutely loved it. Not sure why I never picked up any of the sequels now that I think about it.

Agueroooo · 12-08-2013 4:38pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Only version I ever had was the first on the PC. Absolutely loved it. Not sure why I never picked up any of the sequels now that I think about it.

I played rainbow six vegas2 a few times and was good craic (especially on line) as it was full of glitches and great fun was had.

Star Lord · 13-08-2013 9:30am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I heard the console ports of it were pretty rancid compared to the PC original. The older games are so tactical and sim like I can't see them working on a console.

Unfortunately the series has become your standard cover shooter since Lockdown, which fans have christened 'dumbdown'. I did love Rainbow Six Vegas but not so much the second game.

The original was decent enough on the N64, but yeah, the PC version was much better (as with most games of the time!)

Shapey Fiend · 13-08-2013 12:45pm

Wonderful system but there are waaaay too many games to even think about completing a collection. I'd be just trying to collect the interesting or really good ones. I'd also not be crazy about the PAL editions because those boxes used to crack or break if you so much as looked at them the wrong way. Maybe you could get a load of replacement boxes to swap out with the ones that are damaged?

I'd be more inclined to go with Neo Geo Pocket or something manageable if I wanted the entire run.

Going for a full Ps1 Collection

Comments