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Crypto tax situation - Read post 1 for thread banned users

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    #242
    False Prophet
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭False Prophet


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    Not a tax lawyer (theres probably a forum here) but option 2 is not that simple, once again you really want to make sure you have upped and left and have rents abroad/flight receipts etc ready, as once again when it comes to Revenue you are guilty until prove yourself guilty, might be hard to prove you are gone if someone in your family remains in the house and therese electricity etc flowing in.

    Well yes i persume you would have to leave the country. Then its just a matter of showing your flight tickets. revenue would be able to check anyway when you entered country again. also as living in other country you would have bills etc in the other country. in short i dont see that as an issue. dunno about if own your own house, (pure guess) if no-one lives in it you should be fine as no income.
    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    And theres a bigger problem, how many banks would not raise eyebrows at a "non local" (lets say you go portugal and open an account there) having large amounts arriving in their account, all countries have all sorts of laws and their consumer protection (aka chance of you being swindled by the bank itself) might be weak
    As i understand it would be 3 years in other country before you can cash out, so the bank would have your account for 3 years anyway before then as you could open local bank account when you arrive in the country. Also i presume the tax event occurs at cash out time. so if you change your crypto to cash in the exchange, you could just report it in your Portugal end of year tax in year 3. then just use any of the crypto cards to spend it as you wish or transfer to local bank. Unless EU make it illegal to own crypto, i don't see banks caring as long as you can prove the money isn't from criminal means


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    #243
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Lads a trade as in a professional trade (plumber, carpenter etc)not trading crypto


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    #244
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    Not a tax lawyer (theres probably a forum here) but option 2 is not that simple, once again you really want to make sure you have upped and left and have rents abroad/flight receipts etc ready, as once again when it comes to Revenue you are guilty until prove yourself guilty, might be hard to prove you are gone if someone in your family remains in the house and therese electricity etc flowing in.

    This was what I alluded to earlier before our 'Pal' accused me of misinformation. If you wanted make the move and cash your crypto in earlier than the required 3 years to lose your residency in Ireland you can abandon your Irish domicile for a a domicile of choice but it is notoriously difficult to do and requires a complete cut of ties and sale of all assets in Ireland. Waiting three years to cash your crypto is a dangerous game given its volatility, now you could be lucky and your bag appreciates but you could also be wiped out literally over night.


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    #245
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    Pal if you have no issue with how tax money is being spent then by all means give everything you have to FF/FG. Anyone smart (greedy as you call it) will know not to give anything to sycophants that jack up the housing market. Im not the problem. The government is.

    Look,
    You did the right thing. If you don't agree with how your taxes are spent (educating/housing and providing the framework that has allowed you to prospoer) moving abroad was the correct move.


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    #246
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    kippy wrote: »
    Look,
    You did the right thing. If you don't agree with how your taxes are spent (educating/housing and providing the framework that has allowed you to prospoer) moving abroad was the correct move.

    The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.


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    #247
    donnaille
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.*

    As long as you do it properly and all above board


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    #248
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

    Do what the poster did then and move abroad - its the only thing within your control.
    As I said, I at least the poster did something about something they didnt agree with.

    -Things aren't perfect here - like they aren't in most of the world - but jesus things aren't beyong a joke either.


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    #249
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    kippy wrote: »
    Do what the poster did then and move abroad - its the only thing within your control.
    As I said, I at least the poster did something about something they didnt agree with.

    You're making a very big assumption that we are all in a position to move abroad. A lot of the time it is not within our control due to personal circumstances, finances, elderly family, children etc.


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    #250
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    You're making a very big assumption that we are all in a position to move abroad. A lot of the time it is not within our control due to personal circumstances, finances, elderly family, children etc.

    I said in an earlier post this is ultimately a decision in your hands, a decision you can make. Unlike decisions around how tax is spent (generally).

    I also said that those with more money have a lot of options available to them to protect that money.


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    #251
    Hellotonever
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Hellotonever


    conor-w wrote: »
    Outright evading tax as a multi millionaire isn't being 'smart', it's greed. Calling it smart is a justification, you are complaining about the big bad politicians and others ruining the country, while actively participating in illegal activities that have a negative impact on the country.

    No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

    Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

    In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

    I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.


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    #252
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    conor-w wrote: »
    Outright evading tax as a multi millionaire isn't being 'smart', it's greed. Calling it smart is a justification, you are complaining about the big bad politicians and others ruining the country, while actively participating in illegal activities that have a negative impact on the country.

    IMO tax evasion (as in: illegally failing to pay due taxes) isn't just greed in such case, it is stupidity. If you are a big fish and get caught (which is not unlikely), what is at stake can be very high.

    Now if we are talking tax avoidance (i.e. *legally* reducing one's tax bill by moving abroad or using whatever legal means), depending on the situation I would sometimes find it a bit immoral (if the taxation level is reasonable and the country well run) and sometimes be sympathetic (in cases whereby taxation is borderline confiscatory or whereby someone deeply disagrees with how their tax money is being spent).


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    #253
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

    Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

    In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

    I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.
    I dont think anyone is "fetishising" about getting taxed or taxing others.
    The thread is on the situation on Crypto tax. The situation is fairly straightforward.
    If you have left the country to avoid paying the tax - well done you.


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    #254
    chalky_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭chalky_ie


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

    Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

    In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

    I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.

    I'm sure you're posting all this from your ma's box room, so I'm not sure why I'm still engaging with you, but I think you'll find that the majority of people that leave Ireland are doing it because they can't get a job here, not because they earn so much money that they refuse to pay taxes on it. Staying in the country and paying taxes doesn't make you a loser, claiming to be worth 8 figures, yet still being unhappy with the amount of money you have probably does though.


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    #255
    dirk_dangler
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    This thread reeks of revenue honeypot, the posters who are openly planning to avoid paying tax are would want to be using public wifi and bouncing the signal of a dozen satellites.
    I can imagine the phone call , “Hello boards, this the tax man, could you send over the ip addressed of these users”.

    Does anyone really believe a poster made €10M+ and has nothing better to do but post here, a more believable LARP would have been stories about being a crypto millionaire, living the good life and snorting coke out of models bellybuttons, if he is telling the truth posting here at all hours of the day is better fun, so why even bother trying to make millions if thats the case?


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    #256
    dougal0691
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭dougal0691


    kippy wrote: »
    I dont think anyone is "fetishising" about getting taxed or taxing others.
    The thread is on the situation on Crypto tax. The situation is fairly straightforward.
    If you have left the country to avoid paying the tax - well done you.

    he's made his profits wheeling and dealing on uniswap. he didn't avoid tax he evaded it.


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    #257
    Irish_rat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭Irish_rat


    dougal0691 wrote: »
    he's made his profits wheeling and dealing on uniswap. he didn't avoid tax he evaded it.

    The fish rod was out for the bait and a pack of posters caught it. Its the biggest load of nonsense I've read.


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    #258
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    bosco12345 wrote: »
    Could you not just convert your crypto to USDT (stable coin), and it will be safe

    Yes you could, great point. I was talking about Bitcoin and the like.


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    #259
    dougal0691
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭dougal0691


    Irish_rat wrote: »
    The fish rod was out for the bait and a pack of posters caught it. Its the biggest load of nonsense I've read.

    fiction or not, I think it was an interesting discussion.


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    #260
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    Dont spread fear and disinformation. Tax residency in Portugal is 183 consecutive days. Thats half a year. The other half? Doesn't matter where you f*ck off to. You can come back to Ireland if you want, as long as you don't pass any residency tests.

    Crabs in a bucket the lot of you. Discouraging people from being smart with their assets.

    This is completely incorrect.
    That's why you won't say when you moved to portugal. Because you're not in portugal. You are just making **** up. Fantasy stuff.


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    #261
    Hellotonever
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Hellotonever


    Mellor wrote: »
    This is completely incorrect.
    That's why you won't say when you moved to portugal. Because you're not in portugal. You are just making **** up. Fantasy stuff.

    I have stated multiple times that I was writing fiction. Is this guy slow or something?


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    #262
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    I have stated multiple times that I was writing fiction. Is this guy slow or something?

    We know you are. That was obvious from the start.
    When people make up these sort of lies, they then to get mixed up in contradictions pretty quickly.


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    #263
    Hellotonever
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Hellotonever


    Mellor wrote: »
    We know you are. That was obvious from the start.
    When people make up these sort of lies, they then to get mixed up in contradictions pretty quickly.

    Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG. Once you accept that what I did is for the betterment of humanity, you’ll be out of the crab bucket.


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    #264
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG.

    No you're not though.

    The real short of it is, you made the whole thing up. I can prove that.
    I'm not sure what motivated you to do it. But must be unhappy about your reality.


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    #265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/international-issues/changing-residency/
    Maybe we should tax gains on changing residence too, like the Australians seem to do.
    (At up to 47%)


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    #266
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Hellotonever wrote: »
    Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG. Once you accept that what I did is for the betterment of humanity, you’ll be out of the crab bucket.

    I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the misinformation was in my post. I'll take your silence as a sign you knew you were talking nonsense.


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    #267
    chalky_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭chalky_ie


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    Yes you could, great point. I was talking about Bitcoin and the like.

    Changing from one crypto to another is a taxable event, so you would owe tax on profits you've realised from exchanging the volatile crypto to a tethered one.


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    #268
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Trying to move on from the past few pages, has anyone seen guidance on how interests paid on cryptocurrency deposits are mean to be taxed? (interests on deposits with the likes of BlockFi, Celsius, Crypto.com, etc)

    I was having a look at Revenue’s crypto handbook here and this is not covered - and I couldn’t find any other source: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

    On the one hand I’d be tempted to say DIRT should apply. But on the other hand, crypto currencies are not legally currencies (they are rather financial assets) and are not held as bank deposits. And I think the scope of DIRT is limited to interests paid on bank cash deposits.


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    #269
    Hellotonever
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Hellotonever


    Mellor wrote: »
    No you're not though.

    The real short of it is, you made the whole thing up. I can prove that.
    I'm not sure what motivated you to do it. But must be unhappy about your reality.

    OK prove it.


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    #270
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Bob24 wrote: »
    Trying to move on from the past few pages, has anyone seen guidance on how interests paid on cryptocurrency deposits are mean to be taxed? (interests on deposits with the likes of BlockFi, Celsius, Crypto.com, etc)

    I was having a look at Revenue’s crypto handbook here and this is not covered - and I couldn’t find any other source: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

    On the one hand I’d be tempted to say DIRT should apply. But on the other hand, crypto currencies are not legally currencies (they are rather financial assets) and are not held as bank deposits. And I think the scope of DIRT is limited to interests paid on bank cash deposits.

    That's a good and relevant question after all the silliness of the last few pages. How is the interest paid? Is it paid Inthe crypto you hold? Is it an annual figure?


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    #271
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    conor-w wrote: »
    Isn't each trade that produces profit a taxable event? i.e. this story of 8 figures already involves copious amounts of tax evasion from the very start. I don't see how just moving to another country solves the issue, unless tax was paid on everything up until the point of moving.

    This is one of the more sensible posts on this thread.
    People don’t actually understand when the profit is triggered.

    I hate taxes and agree with hell that the rates and structure in Ireland is all wrong and totally unfair. If I had 10m I’d probably leave to. Well I wouldn’t leave I’d probably engage in some tax avoidance measures which for the uninitiated is not the same as tax evasion. Even though I’m no fan, I always pay my dues.

    As for hell, fiction or not, as already said unless he is a computer whiz kid bouncing his IP address all over Russia, he might find himself open to audit sooner rather than later.

    If he has really turned profits, fair play to him. If he has legally avoided paying tax, even more power to him.

    But he has claimed he cashed out at least a million and paid his dues on that so he could move to Portugal and then later said he has never made a tax return so if off the radar!!!!!

    And as for the rest of his 10m +, I seriously doubt that they are still in his initial investment and not cashed out in some way shape or form. Maybe not to his bank account. But once the trade is done, the tax liability is due and it seems like an awful lot of people do not realise that.


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