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Crypto tax situation - Read post 1 for thread banned users

Gooey Looey

What is the tax situation?
I've started adding loose change towards crypto and have at times made some nice little earners along with building up some savings. I know I'm supposedly liable for capital gains tax if I turn a decent profit but I'll be leaving it as crypto, not looking to convert back into Fiat at this time.

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Hellotonever

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False Prophet

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Not a tax lawyer (theres probably a forum here) but option 2 is not that simple, once again you really want to make sure you have upped and left and have rents abroad/flight receipts etc ready, as once again when it comes to Revenue you are guilty until prove yourself guilty, might be hard to prove you are gone if someone in your family remains in the house and therese electricity etc flowing in.

Well yes i persume you would have to leave the country. Then its just a matter of showing your flight tickets. revenue would be able to check anyway when you entered country again. also as living in other country you would have bills etc in the other country. in short i dont see that as an issue. dunno about if own your own house, (pure guess) if no-one lives in it you should be fine as no income.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

And theres a bigger problem, how many banks would not raise eyebrows at a "non local" (lets say you go portugal and open an account there) having large amounts arriving in their account, all countries have all sorts of laws and their consumer protection (aka chance of you being swindled by the bank itself) might be weak

As i understand it would be 3 years in other country before you can cash out, so the bank would have your account for 3 years anyway before then as you could open local bank account when you arrive in the country. Also i presume the tax event occurs at cash out time. so if you change your crypto to cash in the exchange, you could just report it in your Portugal end of year tax in year 3. then just use any of the crypto cards to spend it as you wish or transfer to local bank. Unless EU make it illegal to own crypto, i don't see banks caring as long as you can prove the money isn't from criminal means

olestoepoke

Lads a trade as in a professional trade (plumber, carpenter etc)not trading crypto

olestoepoke

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Not a tax lawyer (theres probably a forum here) but option 2 is not that simple, once again you really want to make sure you have upped and left and have rents abroad/flight receipts etc ready, as once again when it comes to Revenue you are guilty until prove yourself guilty, might be hard to prove you are gone if someone in your family remains in the house and therese electricity etc flowing in.

This was what I alluded to earlier before our 'Pal' accused me of misinformation. If you wanted make the move and cash your crypto in earlier than the required 3 years to lose your residency in Ireland you can abandon your Irish domicile for a a domicile of choice but it is notoriously difficult to do and requires a complete cut of ties and sale of all assets in Ireland. Waiting three years to cash your crypto is a dangerous game given its volatility, now you could be lucky and your bag appreciates but you could also be wiped out literally over night.

kippy

Hellotonever wrote: »

Pal if you have no issue with how tax money is being spent then by all means give everything you have to FF/FG. Anyone smart (greedy as you call it) will know not to give anything to sycophants that jack up the housing market. Im not the problem. The government is.

Look,
You did the right thing. If you don't agree with how your taxes are spent (educating/housing and providing the framework that has allowed you to prospoer) moving abroad was the correct move.

olestoepoke

kippy wrote: »

Look,
You did the right thing. If you don't agree with how your taxes are spent (educating/housing and providing the framework that has allowed you to prospoer) moving abroad was the correct move.

The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

donnaille

olestoepoke wrote: »

The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.*

As long as you do it properly and all above board

kippy

olestoepoke wrote: »

The politicians in Ireland have been fleecing us for decades. Just look at the 1bn spent on direct provision, private contractors, families made a fortune from it and all were historically FF and FG contributors. Some of the larger centres were owned by families who based their companies abroad so that their financial statements were out of reach. Why did they do this? So fair play to anyone that moves away with their gains, I know if I was in that position I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

Do what the poster did then and move abroad - its the only thing within your control.
As I said, I at least the poster did something about something they didnt agree with.

-Things aren't perfect here - like they aren't in most of the world - but jesus things aren't beyong a joke either.

olestoepoke

kippy wrote: »

Do what the poster did then and move abroad - its the only thing within your control.
As I said, I at least the poster did something about something they didnt agree with.

You're making a very big assumption that we are all in a position to move abroad. A lot of the time it is not within our control due to personal circumstances, finances, elderly family, children etc.

kippy

olestoepoke wrote: »

You're making a very big assumption that we are all in a position to move abroad. A lot of the time it is not within our control due to personal circumstances, finances, elderly family, children etc.

I said in an earlier post this is ultimately a decision in your hands, a decision you can make. Unlike decisions around how tax is spent (generally).

I also said that those with more money have a lot of options available to them to protect that money.

Hellotonever

conor-w wrote: »

Outright evading tax as a multi millionaire isn't being 'smart', it's greed. Calling it smart is a justification, you are complaining about the big bad politicians and others ruining the country, while actively participating in illegal activities that have a negative impact on the country.

No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.

Bob24

conor-w wrote: »

Outright evading tax as a multi millionaire isn't being 'smart', it's greed. Calling it smart is a justification, you are complaining about the big bad politicians and others ruining the country, while actively participating in illegal activities that have a negative impact on the country.

IMO tax evasion (as in: illegally failing to pay due taxes) isn't just greed in such case, it is stupidity. If you are a big fish and get caught (which is not unlikely), what is at stake can be very high.

Now if we are talking tax avoidance (i.e. *legally* reducing one's tax bill by moving abroad or using whatever legal means), depending on the situation I would sometimes find it a bit immoral (if the taxation level is reasonable and the country well run) and sometimes be sympathetic (in cases whereby taxation is borderline confiscatory or whereby someone deeply disagrees with how their tax money is being spent).

kippy

Hellotonever wrote: »

No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.

I dont think anyone is "fetishising" about getting taxed or taxing others.
The thread is on the situation on Crypto tax. The situation is fairly straightforward.
If you have left the country to avoid paying the tax - well done you.

chalky_ie

Hellotonever wrote: »

No idea what you're talking about mate. But this is the perfect example of the crab in the bucket mentality im talking about. Just look at the amount of people here fetishizing about getting taxed or taxing other people. Its surreal.

Mention that you're rich and mention that you'd rather not pay extortionate taxes and you are already compared to a criminal and a thief.

In the eyes of these people, you can't be a smart and pragmatic citizen. You can't possibly look after your own interest. No, you have to pay for the world's most expensive hospital. You have to pay 33% of everything.

I'll tell you what. This is why everyones getting the f*ck outta dodge when it comes to Ireland. Ultimately, whoever stays there is the loser. Money is going out and out to other places, and you're gonna be left to pick up the tab for FF/FG's incompetence.

I'm sure you're posting all this from your ma's box room, so I'm not sure why I'm still engaging with you, but I think you'll find that the majority of people that leave Ireland are doing it because they can't get a job here, not because they earn so much money that they refuse to pay taxes on it. Staying in the country and paying taxes doesn't make you a loser, claiming to be worth 8 figures, yet still being unhappy with the amount of money you have probably does though.

dirk_dangler

This thread reeks of revenue honeypot, the posters who are openly planning to avoid paying tax are would want to be using public wifi and bouncing the signal of a dozen satellites.
I can imagine the phone call , “Hello boards, this the tax man, could you send over the ip addressed of these users”.

Does anyone really believe a poster made €10M+ and has nothing better to do but post here, a more believable LARP would have been stories about being a crypto millionaire, living the good life and snorting coke out of models bellybuttons, if he is telling the truth posting here at all hours of the day is better fun, so why even bother trying to make millions if thats the case?

dougal0691

kippy wrote: »

I dont think anyone is "fetishising" about getting taxed or taxing others.
The thread is on the situation on Crypto tax. The situation is fairly straightforward.
If you have left the country to avoid paying the tax - well done you.

he's made his profits wheeling and dealing on uniswap. he didn't avoid tax he evaded it.

Irish_rat

dougal0691 wrote: »

he's made his profits wheeling and dealing on uniswap. he didn't avoid tax he evaded it.

The fish rod was out for the bait and a pack of posters caught it. Its the biggest load of nonsense I've read.

olestoepoke

bosco12345 wrote: »

Could you not just convert your crypto to USDT (stable coin), and it will be safe

Yes you could, great point. I was talking about Bitcoin and the like.

dougal0691

Irish_rat wrote: »

The fish rod was out for the bait and a pack of posters caught it. Its the biggest load of nonsense I've read.

fiction or not, I think it was an interesting discussion.

Mellor

Hellotonever wrote: »

Dont spread fear and disinformation. Tax residency in Portugal is 183 consecutive days. Thats half a year. The other half? Doesn't matter where you f*ck off to. You can come back to Ireland if you want, as long as you don't pass any residency tests.

Crabs in a bucket the lot of you. Discouraging people from being smart with their assets.

This is completely incorrect.
That's why you won't say when you moved to portugal. Because you're not in portugal. You are just making **** up. Fantasy stuff.

Hellotonever

Mellor wrote: »

This is completely incorrect.
That's why you won't say when you moved to portugal. Because you're not in portugal. You are just making **** up. Fantasy stuff.

I have stated multiple times that I was writing fiction. Is this guy slow or something?

Mellor

Hellotonever wrote: »

I have stated multiple times that I was writing fiction. Is this guy slow or something?

We know you are. That was obvious from the start.
When people make up these sort of lies, they then to get mixed up in contradictions pretty quickly.

Hellotonever

Mellor wrote: »

We know you are. That was obvious from the start.
When people make up these sort of lies, they then to get mixed up in contradictions pretty quickly.

Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG. Once you accept that what I did is for the betterment of humanity, you’ll be out of the crab bucket.

Mellor

Hellotonever wrote: »

Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG.

No you're not though.

The real short of it is, you made the whole thing up. I can prove that.
I'm not sure what motivated you to do it. But must be unhappy about your reality.

[Deleted User]

https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/international-issues/changing-residency/
Maybe we should tax gains on changing residence too, like the Australians seem to do.
(At up to 47%)

olestoepoke

Hellotonever wrote: »

Look pal, the short of it is, im a millionaire and paid no taxes to FG. Once you accept that what I did is for the betterment of humanity, you’ll be out of the crab bucket.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the misinformation was in my post. I'll take your silence as a sign you knew you were talking nonsense.

chalky_ie

olestoepoke wrote: »

Yes you could, great point. I was talking about Bitcoin and the like.

Changing from one crypto to another is a taxable event, so you would owe tax on profits you've realised from exchanging the volatile crypto to a tethered one.

Bob24

Trying to move on from the past few pages, has anyone seen guidance on how interests paid on cryptocurrency deposits are mean to be taxed? (interests on deposits with the likes of BlockFi, Celsius, Crypto.com, etc)

I was having a look at Revenue’s crypto handbook here and this is not covered - and I couldn’t find any other source: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

On the one hand I’d be tempted to say DIRT should apply. But on the other hand, crypto currencies are not legally currencies (they are rather financial assets) and are not held as bank deposits. And I think the scope of DIRT is limited to interests paid on bank cash deposits.

Hellotonever

Mellor wrote: »

No you're not though.

The real short of it is, you made the whole thing up. I can prove that.
I'm not sure what motivated you to do it. But must be unhappy about your reality.

OK prove it.

relax carry on

Bob24 wrote: »

Trying to move on from the past few pages, has anyone seen guidance on how interests paid on cryptocurrency deposits are mean to be taxed? (interests on deposits with the likes of BlockFi, Celsius, Crypto.com, etc)

I was having a look at Revenue’s crypto handbook here and this is not covered - and I couldn’t find any other source: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

On the one hand I’d be tempted to say DIRT should apply. But on the other hand, crypto currencies are not legally currencies (they are rather financial assets) and are not held as bank deposits. And I think the scope of DIRT is limited to interests paid on bank cash deposits.

That's a good and relevant question after all the silliness of the last few pages. How is the interest paid? Is it paid Inthe crypto you hold? Is it an annual figure?

Seve OB

conor-w wrote: »

Isn't each trade that produces profit a taxable event? i.e. this story of 8 figures already involves copious amounts of tax evasion from the very start. I don't see how just moving to another country solves the issue, unless tax was paid on everything up until the point of moving.

This is one of the more sensible posts on this thread.
People don’t actually understand when the profit is triggered.

I hate taxes and agree with hell that the rates and structure in Ireland is all wrong and totally unfair. If I had 10m I’d probably leave to. Well I wouldn’t leave I’d probably engage in some tax avoidance measures which for the uninitiated is not the same as tax evasion. Even though I’m no fan, I always pay my dues.

As for hell, fiction or not, as already said unless he is a computer whiz kid bouncing his IP address all over Russia, he might find himself open to audit sooner rather than later.

If he has really turned profits, fair play to him. If he has legally avoided paying tax, even more power to him.

But he has claimed he cashed out at least a million and paid his dues on that so he could move to Portugal and then later said he has never made a tax return so if off the radar!!!!!

And as for the rest of his 10m +, I seriously doubt that they are still in his initial investment and not cashed out in some way shape or form. Maybe not to his bank account. But once the trade is done, the tax liability is due and it seems like an awful lot of people do not realise that.